I was doing some reading up on the Columbine Shootings for a research paper and I found something that made me physically ill.  For those of you who don't know, the Columbine Shootings occurred on April 20, 1999 at Columbine High School in Jefferson County, Colorado.  Senior students Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold showed up at their high school with guns and many kinds of bombs.  They paraded through the school and massacred 12 students and a teacher, injuring 24 other students in the process.  Afterwards, the two gunman committed suicide by shooting themselves in the head.  This was a very sad tragedy that lead to a lot of pain for a lot of people.

Then, a mere 6 years after the incident, this moron Danny Ledonne creates a horrible video game called Super Columbine Massacre RPG!.  In this game, you play as Harris and Klebold.  You enter the school and you kill as many students as you want.  The students are labeled with names like "preppy girl" and "jock type".  The game even features footage from the actual Columbine shooting.  It's absolutely horrid.

Now Ledonne claims that he made the game in order to critique how the media sensationalized the shooting.  However, as far as I'm concerned he is as bad as the media was at that time.  He made a video game about the Columbine shooting and has made himself somewhat famous off of it. Isn't that the same thing that the police and the media did at that time?

All I know is, Ledonne thoroughly disgusts me.  His blatant disregard for the families of the deceased students and teacher is nothing short of revolting.  Some may call me closed minded, but I see nothing entertaining or 'cool' about a game that profits off of such a horrible tragedy.

Thoughts?  Am I overreacting because I don't think I am.

I've played this game actually, and I've beaten it.

As a video game, I argue it isn't horribly inappropriate.

Yeah, as a topic, Columbine is touchy, and will be for quite the long time, however, this is just a game. It's also a learning tool. A lot of what one could learn about Columbine is in the game, and a lot of work went into the game. Yes, the venture to hell was a little stupid, but as a whole the game was somewhat true to the incident.

I don't think it's a great game, but as a learning tool, it can be useful.

I wasn't aware he was making money though, as I got my copy for free. It's free ware from what I know.

I wouldn't say your opinion is wrong, but neither is mine really. The difference is how you look at what's ok and not ok in a video game. If you can shoot civilians in CoD MW2 (Russia) than this game should be allowed as well. It's actually more educational than just shooting civilians.

I don't think that you're overreacting at all. I very much agree. I don't care if this labels me as close-minded, but it's simply AWFUL to make a game based on such a tragic event. 

Edit: I was wrong. I'm sorry. I didn't know that the game wasn't making a profit.

I dont know,it dosent really bother me but i can see why it would somepeople.he should have called it something else.
There are worse games than that though,like ethnic cleansing.i watched it on youtube,it was clearly made by a klan member.

I don't think that you are over reacting, and I doubt it was made to slam the media. It seems more like some guy wanting to stir up something and get attention. It is kind of like JFK reloaded, which is a FPS where you are Oswald with a Sniper Rifle. You are supposed to shoot JFK while he is riding in the car. Actual sound clips from the event were used in the game. It is horribly disrespectful. However, a lot of games based on real life events can be considered the same thing. Playing games like WWII games put you on the side of the Nazi on multplayer. It really isn't so different to play as a Nazi in a WWII game. Given, the content isn't supposed to put yourself in control of a specific person so you can recreate their brutal massacre on innocent people, but I can see how people who lost loved ones in a war would feel that a game is making a mockery of it. I don't believe that, and I am not for the Columbine RPG. I just think you get out of it what you choose to get out of it. Through your eyes, you are uncomfortable and even outraged at the thought of recreating the even, which is more than okay. Some people like legacyme3 don't play it to recreate it. Instead, he seems to play it ignoring the real story, and plays it as if it were no different than say GTA, where you can kill as many innocent people as you want, which is okay too. The only thing I don't find okay is to play this game because you get some enjoyment or find it humorous to put yourself in the shoes of those boys and "harmlessly" kill those students yourself. There are people who would play this game to do just that, and that is why I'm not for it being made. That intention is wrong.

rcarter2 : I wasn't aware that there was a game out there where you could play as Lee Harvey Oswald and kill JFK.  That's just as bad as this game.

XxChaosxX : Yeah. I found out about that when I was looking for ideas for an article on my high school newspaper my senior year. I saw videos of it being played. The whole game is you in a building watching the car and motorcycles driving through the crowd. It is horrible. 

I think it would bother me a lot more if he had used the real names of the people that Eric and Dylan killed. I have no plans to play the game, but it doesn't bother me to much.

I hate to be THAT person, but...

I personally loved this game. And no, I'm not insensitive to death. And no, I didn't think that what the guys did was good or anything. I just am quite entertained to get into the minds of psychos.

I found this quote on the game's website. I could write multiple paragraphs as to why I like this game but this sums it up:

"Interactivity is one of the core features that differentiate games from passive media like film. In a game we play a role. Most of the time, the roles we play in games are roles of power. Space marine, world-class footballer or hero plumber. Isn't it about time we played the role of the weak, the misunderstood, even the evil? If videogames remain places where we only exercise juvenile power fantasies, I'm not sure there will be a meaningful future for the medium." - Ian Bogost, Watercooler Games

legacyme3 : Care to respond to rcarter?

tabbikatt13 : The fact that people "don't care if they were bullied" is WHY these shootings keep happening. Keep that in mind. And going to a teacher doesn't always help. Most of the time, they don't do anything in cases of real bullying, often times they side with the bullies.I should know, I was also harshly bullied growing up. Teachers, counselors, my own parents... none of them cared.  They just said "ignore it and they will stop." They didn't, they escalated, threw my lunchbox into the park next door, stuck wads of gum into my hair, tripped me, pulled chairs out from under me when I was going to sit, etc, etc. I just didn't snap because I was more well-adjusted. Doesn't mean people didn't think I would.

That said, I have two main points to make.

Firstly, the game is a freeware game, which means that HE MAKES NO PROFITS. Though $1 donations are accepted to help with bandwidth costs. Seriously, a five second search on Google turned that up, which means that you didn't really read much beyond the first paragraph on the wiki page. Please, if you are going to make an accusation like that, have the facts to back it up. If the guy happened upon this thread and read that first post, he legally could sue you for libel (slander in written form) for stating that he was profiting from this. Especially because it is clear that at least one person believed you. I say this for your benefit, not to be mean.

Secondly, it is clear that you miss the real point behind the making of the game: to create a dialogue about the shooting, about the media attention against video games that the shooting created, and about bullying in particular. People form their own preconceived notions about such things, and they never talk to people that might challenge those notions. This game does that by getting people talking about it. For example, in my opinion, tabbikatt's statement is a stereotypical response of someone with preconceived notions about the shooters who has never experienced bullying themselves. In speaking about my personal experiences, I have given evidence that directly challenges those notions, so now tabbi has to reevaluate those notions to see if she still agrees with them or if they have changed. Maybe she won't be in a rush to such judgements in the future, or maybe she will now take steps to stop bullying when she sees it since she now knows that teachers cannot always make it stop, or maybe her ideals will remain the same and she will disagree with me. That is what intelligent dialogue is, and that is why this game was made.

Elara :

I'm glad to see we agree on the point that it wasn't overly inappropriate.

However, I'll also look at the other side of this story.

I can see why she says it is inappropriate. Such like most things, there is a certain level of controversy and misunderstanding surrounding anything that could be seen as offensive to those directly affected.


Now to look at the two things you pointed to Tabikatt13...

I can say that she has not seen this game, and I'm positive this is her first time hearing about this game, therefor, I can defend her for thinking that he was making profits as stated in XxChaosxX's post

" He made a video game about the Columbine shooting and has made money off of it. "

Anyone who has never played the game before will read this and assume that it is not a freeware game. If anything you can pin that on a lack of research by the thread poster.

As far as the second point, she's basing that off her personal experience, and a different view can't really be forced onto someone. She hasn't been in those shoes specifically,and very few have been in those very big shoes. Even those who are bullied may not truly understand, and it's quite possible there were disorders at work that we can only hope to understand.

As for the response to rcarter, I don't know what I'm supposed to respond to. He seems to assume that I'm the type of person who doesn't immerse myself in the experience.

rcarter2 :

I thought I'd summon you to read this, since it's clear you did a piss poor job of evaluating how I perceive the incident.

I'll break your gripe into little pieces so it's easier to try and get to the root of your issue.

"Some people like legacyme3 don't play it to recreate it. Instead, he seems to play it ignoring the real story, and plays it as if it were no different than say GTA, where you can kill as many innocent people as you want, which is okay too."

For one, I never at one point said I played this game just to kill people. Killing people, and using this as a tool to learn are two different things. Killing people is part of the game yes, and there are times I believe where you have to fight and do villainous things. Don't think for a second though that I am one of the people in this world who kill things without a second thought. I own GTA. I do. But I don't play it to kill innocents. I drive carefully, do the missions, earn trophies, and generally play as the character I'm assigned to play. I try to get in the characters head, and understand their turmoil. I learn from their experiences so I don't suffer a similar fate in the future. It's not always appliable, but I generally learn something from every game I play.

"The only thing I don't find okay is to play this game because you get some enjoyment or find it humorous to put yourself in the shoes of those boys and "harmlessly" kill those students yourself. There are people who would play this game to do just that, and that is why I'm not for it being made. That intention is wrong."

I hope you, again, don't think I'm one of these people. I didn't enjoy killing people, and it wasn't humorous. This is a learning tool, not a killing simulator. While people like Jack Thompson will argue that to the death, in the end, this game was made with a very clear message. Read his statement on why he made this game, and maybe you will understand.

legacyme3 : I am really sorry I wasn't clear. I don't think you are one of those people. I was saying that you are able to play the game without the mentality of getting some enjoyment out of recreating horrible events, which was a good thing. That is why I brought up GTA. Though you have the option of mindlessly killing innocent people, not everyone plays with that kind of mentality, and people like you are able to play games like this with no inappropriate intentions. I reread my post, and I can see that my point wasn't clear at all. I'm not against this game. The only thing I am against are the people who decide to play it for inappropriate reasons. That is what I meant by you are able to play the game while ignoring the story. It was meant to be a compliment. I own GTA too, and I have given this game a run through too. The only bad thing that I see in this game is that though the creator had his own intentions of the game, not everyone is going to play it with those same intentions. But that is the case with pretty much any violent game. I was just stating that you are able to have the mentality that it is just a game, and you can leave it at that. But others decide to play it as if it were a killing simulation, even though that is not the intention of the creator. Again, I am really sorry that my previous post looked like I thought so poorly of you. I don't. I actually agree with you. I just didn't do a good job at explaining myself well.

rcarter2 :

Oh haha

Yeah, I think I must have read it wrong. When Elara pointed it out to me, I was under the assumption it was an attack, so I am just as guilty as you would have been.

While I think it's sick that some people recreate the game like that, just for their amusement, I also can't condemn it. A video game is about making your own experience, and enjoying your own spin on it. For everyone with clean intentions, there are just as many (if not more) with foul intentions.

When I was younger, I used to kill people in games like that, just because I was bored, and the only real challenge was running from the cops armed with a light arsenal. As I grew older, it got tiring, because I never progressed in the story while being chased by the cops for punching that one policeman and running away. I ended up avoiding cops altogether where possible, as they ended up just getting smarter, and I began to realize that it just wasn't fun.

And I'm sorry I made a very bad assumption. Assumptions are a bad thing for people to have when debating on a topic like this.

legacyme3 : Don't worry about it. Like I said, I reread my post and it didn't sound like I wanted it to. I even made a little edit while you were reading it, so you probably didn't see it. Near the end, I was saying what you pretty much said right now. The developer had his intentions with making this game, but there are going to be people who would rather use it as a killing simulation. But again, it's okay. When it comes to topics like this, I should also not assume everyone knows what I mean to say, and reread my post before actually posting it.

tabbikatt13 :

What I think needs to be taken into account here is that one of the shooters, I don't remember who, had obvious mental problems, and that his parents had tried to get him help, but were unable to - this came out in the aftermath. The bulling was also extreme to the point where fecal matter was thrown at them (forgive my lack of credible sources, but I have issues with anyone who would mess with that Wikipedia page). Also, I don't think this was the odd name-calling, or jock running into them. I'm pretty sure that this was cruel, sustained bullying that went on and on and on, and that it drove them halfway to madness. Of course, they had other issues, but I do think that some of the blame for such tragedies belongs with those who cause such trauma that a person starts to think that suicide was the only way out, and that they might as well take out some of the people who tormented them, if not actively, then by laughing at the jokes, or by not helping them. But then again, having never lost anyone to a shooting like that, I question my judgement, just a little.

XxChaosxX :

WooGie502 : She gets a notice of every post in a thread that she creates, you don't need to summon her. Secondly, don't make a post just with a summon and no substance, that is spam.

legacyme3 : Actually the comment on the freeware thing was specifically for XxChaosxX. "That being said, I have two points to make" was the shifting of directly talking to tabbikat to my reply in general. I would have summoned Chaos directly, but as I just mentioned, it's rather pointless to do so since she gets a notice of every post made in this thread anyway. I guess I could have made that clearer.

Elara :

Ah ok, just a misunderstanding then. As a little side note, whenever I want to make a note to the thread creator, I generally write their username out and put a hyphen after. While it doesn't summon her, it makes it clear that's the intent of what you are doing.

I suppose. I also made a note in the forum guidelines that it's generally a good idea to check your facts before you make an accusation. Libel is a very serious thing, and it could also affect the board if it was bad enough.

Elara : I did read an entire article on the video game. It wasn't from wiki. I can't remember what site it was, but in the article it said he was charging $1 for the game. That's why I thought he was making a profit off it it when he wasn't. I was simply misinformed.

But even if he isn't making a profit off of it, I still can't accept this game as appropriate. As someone who was bullied profusely in elementary, middle, and high school I find the game horribly offensive and I don't think it should have ever been made. And I can only imagine how the families of the victims of Columbine felt when they heard about this game.

Anyway I will edit my post about the guy making money since that was wrong. I guess I need to be more careful about the sites I trust on the internet since I just made an ass of myself. >.<