I live in the hood. They shouldn't come over all super early. I didn't look out the window but when I opened the door I was wearing boxers and a white beater with a 40 of O E in one hand and a blunt of sticky in the other hand. So my reaction was to slam the door.

I live in a very small town.  Sometimes Jehovah's Witnesses stop by my house.  I have even had one approach my car in the parking lot of a discount store.  I always  accept their Watchtower and listen to what they have to say.  Then we talk about the weather, gardening, etc.  I have never had a Jehovah's Witness become pushy, but I also have not become pushy with them.  I have no reason to debate with them about religion.  I am a teacher, and I have had a number of students who were JW.  Some of them left the religion after entering adulthood; many did not.  These were invariably fine students who were diligent and willing to learn.  The only time I had a discussion about religion was with one student who was very friendly to me.  I asked him some questions about his religion, and he answered honestly.  I came away with a respect for the commitment this religion requires.

Have I had Jehovah's Witnesses in my house?  No.  Even though I'm very careful, sometimes I think they know I'm gay, and they probably don't want to come near that.  Still, who am I to say they're wrong?  I think all religions have at least an element of truth, misguided as they may be.  I try to live in such a way that I learn from all people.  Even if I completely disagree with a person's religion, I can learn.  Even if they stop by every day (which they don't), what does it cost me?  A few minutes of conversation with a neighbor or friend?  There are probably people in my church with whom I disagree even more than a Jehovah's Witness.  Does this mean that I don't go to church?  Does this mean I run and hide?  Does this mean I don't invite a friend over for coffee simply because I might disagree with her/him?  No.  I strongly believe that this is not how God wants us to live.  He wants us to love each other unconditionally, regardless of differences in beliefs.

Well, now I seem to be preaching, so I'd better end this before the dramatic music begins

hulxter : What kind of church do you go to? Glad you agree that JW's are a different religion by themselves. Interesting story, by the way.



Jak.

Being honest i never let them in cuz i feel they are false prophets. Then again they like to make us better folk look bad they look down on the gay community which they say judging is bad and they judge that community? they do not practice what they teach

JesusFreak1256 : What do you mean exactly by "us better folk"?



Jak.

jzrozzn8706 : I go to a Lutheran (ELCA) church.

Kryptic : I have never had a JW become pushy.  I have always taken their Watchtower.  My JW students and parents have never openly judged me, and I have never had a reason to become annoyed.  Yes, they are wrong.  So are we.  Everyone who tries to understand God is wrong in some way, because we can never fully understand him.  I am in no position to make this judgement because I am wrong about many things, I am sure.  The problem with being wrong is that one never knows he is wrong.  This is why I assume that I am wrong, you are wrong, everyone is wronge; but by the same token, we all are right. God is God, whether I enter a JW Kingdom Hall, a Christian church, a mosque, or a Hindu temple.  God remains God.

hulxter : Wow. I have a few questions for you, sir.
First off, in response to something you wrote in an earlier post: we cannot love each other unconditionally. It is only possible for God to love someone unconditionally.
Questions:
1: Do you believe that acting in a homosexual manner is a sin? (I mean like-touching, fondling, thinking dirty things about, being in a relationship with someone of the same sex)
2: What do you consider one to do to ever "get right" with God?
3: Are you saying that you believe that God is the same god for Hindus, Muslims, etc?

Take care.

Jak.

They rarely come to our house... But, when they come, we just hide and turn down the volume of the TV until they go away... If we open them the door. They just talk from outside for a while and then they leave. (Not without giving a paper with some info about their religion).

They are quite annoying I must say...

Jehovah's witness come all the time they try to give you water

jzrozzn8706 : Thank you for your statement regarding unconditional love. I'm not sure I agree, but it is something to ponder. At this point, I still believe that unconditional love is the ideal, whether we are able to fully realize it or not. Actually, even after a brief consideration, I'm starting to think we cannot.

As for your other questions, I will do my best to respond with the understanding that I am no theological scholar, and these are only my own personal opinions and convictions, imperfectly expressed.

1. Do I believe that acting in a homosexual manner is a sin? I believe that God blesses a faithful, monogamous relationship between two individuals. Any intimate expression of love should take place within the context of this relationship. I believe unfaithfulness is sinful, including dwelling on impure thoughts. Ideally, one would meet one's life partner and become united with him/her for life. This is my understanding of what Jesus says in Matthew 19 and John 4. Not all of us live up to this ideal; therefore, forgiveness.

Imagine a bisexual person who meets and falls in love with one person and is faithful to this one person for his entire life, regardless of gender. According to my understanding, this is not a sin. Now, imagine a heterosexual person who divorces his wife and marries another. According to Jesus, this is a sin, and it is easy to understand why; but again, there is forgiveness.

2. What do I consider one to do to "get right" with God? To me, the greatest virtue is to live in such a way that I do no harm, but strive to serve others. Ministry to me is expressed in what I do every day. Sometimes I make huge mistakes, and I pray to God to forgive me, and try to do better next time or to avoid situations that make me fall. I'm not sure if this is "getting right" with God; when I think of serving God I think less in terms of "getting right" and more in terms of following.

3. Am I saying that God is the same for Hindus, Muslims, etc.? Yes. God is God, regardless of whether I enter a Hindu temple, a mosque, a synagogue, or other place of worship. I believe every religion on Earth is an imperfect attempt to understand and express one single God. There are some very persuasive arguments for Christianity as the One Truth. In the 1990's, I attended a series of lectures by Elliot Miller, an apologist working with the Christian Research Institute. His arguments are very compelling.

Then, I learned that other religions have their own Elliot Millers. I also learned that much of what I had been taught was wrong. For example, I learned that Hinduism is monotheistic. Each deity is only a partial expression of one God. Furthermore, the characteristics expressed in these deities and God's moral characteristics seem to reflect much of what is expressed in Christianity as well.

For example, in Hinduism Shiva is the part of God the destroyer, but also embodies the forgiving part of God. To me, this makes sense. Now, when I pray to God for forgiveness, I also imagine Him destroying the sin within me, and I pray to Him to destroy the evil within me. On the other hand, to the Hindus, Brahma is the Creator. When I pray to God, asking Him to "create in me a clean heart," I am asking to be reborn, created anew. Whatever terms I use to describe these parts of God, whether Brahma and Shiva or Lord and Father, the essential parts of God are still the same; I'm just using different terms.

Now, from the bottom of my heart, I hope that no one is misled or offended by what I have written. These are my inexpert opinions, and nothing more. If you disagree, I would be more than happy to hear your thoughts. While I can't promise I will agree, I can say that I will do my best to consider everything with an open mind.
Jeremy

A group of them came to my door once, I think I scared them off by answering the door naked.

hulxter : I would like to jump in on this.

Considering jzrozzn8706's question about getting right with God, I don't think you got the point of his question (that or I am not quite understanding what you are saying). This is what I am wondering about "getting right with God". Are you saying that you get right with God from our sins through your actions and service?

"Am I saying that God is the same for Hindus, Muslims, etc.? Yes. God is God"
Wait, how are you in the ELCA when you believe this? Yes, God is God, but when you look at what these religions believe, they are completely opposed to each other, so you can't say that they believe in the same God

"For example, in Hinduism Shiva is the part of God the destroyer, but also embodies the forgiving part of God. To me, this makes sense. Now, when I pray to God for forgiveness, I also imagine Him destroying the sin within me, and I pray to Him to destroy the evil within me. On the other hand, to the Hindus, Brahma is the Creator. When I pray to God, asking Him to "create in me a clean heart," I am asking to be reborn, created anew. Whatever terms I use to describe these parts of God, whether Brahma and Shiva or Lord and Father, the essential parts of God are still the same; I'm just using different terms."

Here's the problem about that...that is opposed to what Christianity believes. In fact, the beliefs that you described about Hinduism is not like what the Trinity is saying, because the doctrine of the Trinity says that all attributes of God are seen in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. They are not divided into three separate parts of God.

play4fun :

"Wait, how are you in the ELCA when you believe this?"
Although the ELCA is a centralized denomination, they accept and welcome, even encourage those with differences of opinion to attend and participate in the Glory of God.

"Yes, God is God, but when you look at what these religions believe, they are completely opposed to each other, so you can't say that they believe in the same God"
I don't see that they are opposed to each other; rather, as I have tried to illustrate, I see striking parallels.


"Here's the problem about that...that is opposed to what Christianity believes. In fact, the beliefs that you described about Hinduism is not like what the Trinity is saying, because the doctrine of the Trinity says that all attributes of God are seen in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. They are not divided into three separate parts of God."
I believe the doctrine of the Trinity is a man-made doctrine, and one example of imperfect humanity attempting to comprehend a perfect God, much as the Hindus split God into different deities. We can't understand God any more than my goldfish can understand me. God is God, regardless of our imperfect understanding of Him.

These are my thoughts and opinions, and I want you to know that I do respect your beliefs.

Yes, a couple times last week there were two Jehovah's Witnesses at my door. My parents just simply said that they were happy in the church that they go to and politely told them that they weren't interesting in the Watchtower magazine. There's no need for conflict.

hulxter : "Although the ELCA is a centralized denomination, they accept and welcome, even encourage those with differences of opinion to attend and participate in the Glory of God."
Right, I got the part about accepting them into the congregation (in fact, they should be doing that), but are you a member of the church or are you only a person who goes to the church? Because being a member of an ELCA church would require acceptance with their statement of faith.

"I don't see that they are opposed to each other;"
Ok, let me name one, which was something that I asked about before. Comparing between Hinduism and Christianity, how does one obtain salvation? In other words, how does one get right with God?

"I believe the doctrine of the Trinity is af man-made doctrine, and one example of imperfect humanity attempting to comprehend a perfect God, much as the Hindus split God into different deities. We can't understand God any more than my goldfish can understand me. God is God, regardless of our imperfect understanding of Him."
Except the concept of the Trinity is formed through the understand of the Bible as a whole and not through selective verses. As we search through scripture, we see many key phrases and descriptions that formulate the model of the Trinity. That is why Modalism is a heresy, because it describes the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as different modes or aspects at different times of one God from a person's point of view, which contradicts to what scripture describes God to be: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are co-eternal in one God. And this would go the same way with Tri-theism (3 separate deities), Pantheism (God is everything), Arianism (Son created by the Father), etc. They all contradict to what scripture describes God to be and this is not a secondary topic in Christianity where Christians can have different stances. This is about God.

You also need to understand that although we cannot fully understand everything about God, we can know what God is like and rightly see how God is like through scripture.

Compare that with knowing your best friend well. You may not know EVERYTHING about your friend, but because of your continual close relationship with this person and experiences you have with this person, you can say that you know your friend well and it shows in the way that you interact, communicate, and with the person.

In the same way, can we FULLY understand God? No, for we are not omniscience. But we can know God, and know God rightly through God's Word, our God-given ability to reason, and the work of the Holy Spirit. The Bible even demands that we know God. Do a search on the word "know" in the Bible, you will see it being used through the whole Bible with some using it relating to God and His ways. Jesus even said: "if you knew me, you would know my Father as well." (John 14:7)

"An unknown God can neither be trusted, served, nor worshipped." -A.W. Pink

play4fun :
To answer your first question regarding membership, I am a full member of the ELCA, baptized and confirmed. Are you suggesting I should renounce this membership if I no longer fully accept their statement of faith? Since I am a believer and follower of Christ, I'm not sure my beliefs conflict with the beliefs of the ELCA.

To answer your second question about salvation, I'm not sure I see it as being especially important. In my opinion, seeking and following are far more important issues. I leave what happens after this life to God and the theologians. As for me, I am just a student.

It occurs to me that you and I have completely different worldviews. In fact, at one time I used to believe as you do. During this period in my life, if someone would attempt to discuss God with me, my first question was, "Do you believe in the Bible as the true, infallible Word of God?" If the answer was no, any discussion after a certain point was fruitless because we were not standing on the same foundation. I had a dear friend who was an atheist, and I would answer her questions about my beliefs quite frankly, but often we could not possibly have a discussion because I was a Christian who lived by every word of the Bible, and she did not even believe in God.

Right now, and for a variety of reasons, the answer to this question for me is "No." I am sorry if I have deceived you by calling myself a Christian, but I do consider myself a Christian in the sense that I try to follow Christ's teachings.

What is my foundation, then? It is experience. No, this does not mean that I live a wild lifestyle or that I have to try everything to see if it works. I live in a very small, conservative community, and I actually spend most of my time, working, reading, and gardening. I say experience because reading and interpreting scripture is an experience; listening to and observing others is an experience; ruminating and meditating is an experience; realizing that someone born in a different place to a different family is just as adherent to his beliefs as I once was to mine is called experiencing an epiphany.

When I first experienced this epiphany, I was shaken and disturbed to the core; I have been trying to come to terms with this ever since. For this reason, I try to openly admit that when it comes to God, I am only a student, so the short answer for me is always "I don't know." What little I do know I hold onto; for example, it is my absolute conviction that God exists, and that if He exists, He must love us.

hulxter : We'll continue through private messages, for we are going further and further from what this thread is originally discussing about.

Actually, I can verify what's true and what isn't. I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses, The only time we stay at someone's door is if they WANT to talk. We never push our beliefs on other people. We believe in free will. Here is a little tip, if you don't want them to go to your door, ask them to put you on a the DO NOT CALL list. Problem solved.