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Scientests Confirm That Global Warming Is A Lie

 

03-28-11 10:22 AM
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there was a movie called the great global warming scam ithink, while it was interesting and made many good points equally so do programs that support global warming.
even if you dont believe in it though you should try not to waste, you may not think the ozone can be destroyed but you must believe oil will run out, that there are not infinite trees and that we cant go without power, common sense would suggest we should conserve resources and invest in sustainable enrgy sources, they on the one hand are supposedly good for the environment but even if you dont believe that at least its infinite energy reserves, plus it would be cheaper than fuel if we mass produced green tech, and who dosent love money?
there was a movie called the great global warming scam ithink, while it was interesting and made many good points equally so do programs that support global warming.
even if you dont believe in it though you should try not to waste, you may not think the ozone can be destroyed but you must believe oil will run out, that there are not infinite trees and that we cant go without power, common sense would suggest we should conserve resources and invest in sustainable enrgy sources, they on the one hand are supposedly good for the environment but even if you dont believe that at least its infinite energy reserves, plus it would be cheaper than fuel if we mass produced green tech, and who dosent love money?
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04-30-11 12:13 AM
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Finally someone who knows that Global Warming is a myth! I applaud you for that.
Finally someone who knows that Global Warming is a myth! I applaud you for that.
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04-30-11 05:38 PM
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DarthDub : Um... I take it you didn't bother to read past the first post? The author of the article was disproved by numerous other scientists.
DarthDub : Um... I take it you didn't bother to read past the first post? The author of the article was disproved by numerous other scientists.
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05-02-11 07:45 PM
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1) Is it a good thing to have missing Ozone or Ozone at ground level instead of the sky as portions are today?
2) Can you refute that greenhouse gases in proportions beyond natural limit is bad?
3) Can you provide more than one paper as any respectable scientist wouldn't base a conclusion on one research paper when many already refute said paper?
4) Can you deny global climate change is taking place?
5) Can you prove that natural occurrences are causing the melting of the polar caps?
6) Do you honestly believe that humans aren't destroying the planet and causing irreversible changes to it?
If so(on 6) then you clearly aren't aware of everything happening around you all the time. Pollution in this country is returning to industrial revolution levels, corporations are fighting harder than ever to fight science and anti-pollution law, and new vehicles continue to populate the world spreading constant pollution. Any scientist that can perpetrate the attacks on knowledge corporations are paying for can't truly be scientists. It is intellectual insincerity in it's purest.
1) Is it a good thing to have missing Ozone or Ozone at ground level instead of the sky as portions are today?
2) Can you refute that greenhouse gases in proportions beyond natural limit is bad?
3) Can you provide more than one paper as any respectable scientist wouldn't base a conclusion on one research paper when many already refute said paper?
4) Can you deny global climate change is taking place?
5) Can you prove that natural occurrences are causing the melting of the polar caps?
6) Do you honestly believe that humans aren't destroying the planet and causing irreversible changes to it?
If so(on 6) then you clearly aren't aware of everything happening around you all the time. Pollution in this country is returning to industrial revolution levels, corporations are fighting harder than ever to fight science and anti-pollution law, and new vehicles continue to populate the world spreading constant pollution. Any scientist that can perpetrate the attacks on knowledge corporations are paying for can't truly be scientists. It is intellectual insincerity in it's purest.
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05-02-11 08:38 PM
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I believe that humans are not the major cause of global warming (or temperature changes in general). Not only did major temperature changes happen in the past without human interference (ice age), but also there was more than enough evidence stating that global warming is not human caused (aka natural shifts, etc.). As for resource wasting, nuclear is the most convenient and efficient source of energy at the moment.

Oh No, people are not being paranoid over a half-effort theory popularized by a president in hopes of winning political credit, THE HORROR!!
I believe that humans are not the major cause of global warming (or temperature changes in general). Not only did major temperature changes happen in the past without human interference (ice age), but also there was more than enough evidence stating that global warming is not human caused (aka natural shifts, etc.). As for resource wasting, nuclear is the most convenient and efficient source of energy at the moment.

Oh No, people are not being paranoid over a half-effort theory popularized by a president in hopes of winning political credit, THE HORROR!!
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(edited by Viperx199 on 05-09-11 08:16 PM)    

05-08-11 11:07 PM
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Viperx199 : But is it Really that bad of an idea to reduce pollution?, and like was stated before, i dont know about you, but when i walk outside onto my porch i wanna be able to the sky, not see the fumes from the nearest plant or chemicals factory.
Viperx199 : But is it Really that bad of an idea to reduce pollution?, and like was stated before, i dont know about you, but when i walk outside onto my porch i wanna be able to the sky, not see the fumes from the nearest plant or chemicals factory.
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05-08-11 11:26 PM
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Climate change, yeah, I believe in that. But the extent and danger of the impact on the environment by humanity? I think that the science is corrupted by its connection to politics and that it is hyped by supporters of the state for its expansion.

IMHO, it just another part of the culture of fear promoted by the government.
Climate change, yeah, I believe in that. But the extent and danger of the impact on the environment by humanity? I think that the science is corrupted by its connection to politics and that it is hyped by supporters of the state for its expansion.

IMHO, it just another part of the culture of fear promoted by the government.
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05-09-11 08:30 PM
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Margoth : Im not saying we should not find an efficient source of energy or reduce pollution. I only stated that major temperature changes caused by humans are very unlikely. Of course I think its a good idea to find more efficient, convenient, and less pollutive sources of energy. But then the problem shifts from global warming to resource conservation and general smog and pollution. For now nuclear seems to be the most efficient and convenient source of public energy at the moment.
Margoth : Im not saying we should not find an efficient source of energy or reduce pollution. I only stated that major temperature changes caused by humans are very unlikely. Of course I think its a good idea to find more efficient, convenient, and less pollutive sources of energy. But then the problem shifts from global warming to resource conservation and general smog and pollution. For now nuclear seems to be the most efficient and convenient source of public energy at the moment.
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05-10-11 01:31 AM
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Viperx199 : Ok, my apologies i thought you meant we should just not worry about it at all... again my apologies.
Viperx199 : Ok, my apologies i thought you meant we should just not worry about it at all... again my apologies.
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05-10-11 06:44 AM
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"What's the worst that could happen?"
Have you ever found yourself saying that when you're trying to convince someone to do something?
"But I dont think I want to eat the raw sea slug... O.o;
"COME ON, what's the worst that could happen?"
You dont really worry about that 'worst' if you dont think it's going to happen. And if it does, well, you've always recovered from it in the past. That kind of thinking has worked out ok for us so far; but now, with six billion people and technology that might be able to change the planet, it's conceivable that there could be some 'worse' that we cant recover from. Take global warming for example. If you listen to the worst predictions, we may be in for a nasty future. Storms, droughts, floods, epidemics, famine..... ....
BUT what if that 'Worst' isnt gonna happen? What if it's not true? What if we're not the ones doing it? Seems like a pretty important question to figure out; what with the fate of the human race and all. Which is probably why there's still some bitter fighting going on about it right now...
BUT WHAT IF I told you that i think i've found an argument that makes the whole bitter question of whether it's really happening or not, moot? An argurment where we don't need to know whether it's true or not in order to decide what to still do or not do. An arguement that leads to a conclusion that even the most hardened skeptic and the most panicked activist BOTH can agree on! ^.^ I know what you're thinking... impossible right?!
Well seems like it to me too. Which is why I'm putting this argument out there, to see if my reasoning is delusional. >.>
SO! Here it is! When faced with uncertainty like we are with climate change it becomes useful to look at the different possibilities for the future in order to compare them side-by-side. SOOO one of the things to look at is whether or not human-caused global climate change (HCC) is real or not. There are basic 2 possiblities... one being that it turns out to be false, and the other, true.
NOW, this is a key point because this is where we get to set aside that whole contentious debate about whether the globe is warming and we're the ones doing it (or not). We do this by acknowleging that no one can know with absolute certainty what the physical world will do. All resonable people should be able to admit to the possiblilty that they might have a mistaken understanding about reality.
SO at this point, we can all agree that HCC is either true, or it is false. The second thing that we need to take a look at, is what action are we taking? We will either take significant action on climate change or we wont. What this gives us (and you reading along at home are encouraged to draw ^.^) is a grid with four boxes. Each box representing a basic scenario for the future. Let's take a look at what each of those futures might look like, shall we?
The first future here is where we DID take action on climate change, but climate change turned out to be not true (not reall). So what would the consequences be? Weeeellllll, a big waste of money mostly... this is what the skeptics are warning us about. Increased taxation, burdens in regulation, bloated government etc. Now, for the purposes of contrast, let's take this to the extreme. We end up with massive layoffs caused by draconian regulation which sparks a recession that spirals into a depression which spreads worldwide and we end up in a huge global economic depression which makes the 1930's look like--- a cake walk...
OK how about this scenario where we DIDNT take action AND (hey!) we didnt need to! Yay us we made the right decision in this case. No big economic consequences we get to keep the ozone layer, yadda yadda, over all, this is a good future to be in.
HOW ABOUT this one? Where we DID take action and it's a good thing too because all the doomsayers turned out to be right. Weellll, we still have the cost associated with that, but in this case it was money well spent because the money and the regulation allowed us to counteract climate change. It still happened, but we managed it, it's a different world, but it's livable. over all, we're still here, i give it a smiley
ANNND now let's look at the uber bad scenario... Where those pesky doom-sayers turned out to be right and we didnt take action. (OH NOES) Now, since we granted the extreme with the first future we should grant it here too and in that case it gets kinda ugly...Cause we got economic, political, social, environmental, and public health CATASTROPHES on a global scale this here is the worst case scenario. This is the sea level rising 10-20 feet, entire coastal contries disappearing. Hundreds of millions of people world-wide displaced moving in on their neighbors, causing wide-spread warfare over scarce resources and long-standing hatreds. Entire forests die or burn, massive droughts alternating with catastrophic floods. The upper hemisphere turns into a dust bowl. We're talkin a world straight out of science-fiction. Diseases rampant, katrina like storm systems become the norm... you get the idea. This future makes Al Gore look like a sissified wimp who sugar-coated the bad news.
(WHEW!) ok, so we've simplified things a bit the clue should be the smiley face, any diagram with smiley faces, certainly has some complexities underneath. OK i'll shut up soon but i leave you with this summation:

The question, fellow gamers, is not whether or not global warming is real or not. Cause really, that isnt important. No, the question is, are we going to act or not?
"What's the worst that could happen?"
Have you ever found yourself saying that when you're trying to convince someone to do something?
"But I dont think I want to eat the raw sea slug... O.o;
"COME ON, what's the worst that could happen?"
You dont really worry about that 'worst' if you dont think it's going to happen. And if it does, well, you've always recovered from it in the past. That kind of thinking has worked out ok for us so far; but now, with six billion people and technology that might be able to change the planet, it's conceivable that there could be some 'worse' that we cant recover from. Take global warming for example. If you listen to the worst predictions, we may be in for a nasty future. Storms, droughts, floods, epidemics, famine..... ....
BUT what if that 'Worst' isnt gonna happen? What if it's not true? What if we're not the ones doing it? Seems like a pretty important question to figure out; what with the fate of the human race and all. Which is probably why there's still some bitter fighting going on about it right now...
BUT WHAT IF I told you that i think i've found an argument that makes the whole bitter question of whether it's really happening or not, moot? An argurment where we don't need to know whether it's true or not in order to decide what to still do or not do. An arguement that leads to a conclusion that even the most hardened skeptic and the most panicked activist BOTH can agree on! ^.^ I know what you're thinking... impossible right?!
Well seems like it to me too. Which is why I'm putting this argument out there, to see if my reasoning is delusional. >.>
SO! Here it is! When faced with uncertainty like we are with climate change it becomes useful to look at the different possibilities for the future in order to compare them side-by-side. SOOO one of the things to look at is whether or not human-caused global climate change (HCC) is real or not. There are basic 2 possiblities... one being that it turns out to be false, and the other, true.
NOW, this is a key point because this is where we get to set aside that whole contentious debate about whether the globe is warming and we're the ones doing it (or not). We do this by acknowleging that no one can know with absolute certainty what the physical world will do. All resonable people should be able to admit to the possiblilty that they might have a mistaken understanding about reality.
SO at this point, we can all agree that HCC is either true, or it is false. The second thing that we need to take a look at, is what action are we taking? We will either take significant action on climate change or we wont. What this gives us (and you reading along at home are encouraged to draw ^.^) is a grid with four boxes. Each box representing a basic scenario for the future. Let's take a look at what each of those futures might look like, shall we?
The first future here is where we DID take action on climate change, but climate change turned out to be not true (not reall). So what would the consequences be? Weeeellllll, a big waste of money mostly... this is what the skeptics are warning us about. Increased taxation, burdens in regulation, bloated government etc. Now, for the purposes of contrast, let's take this to the extreme. We end up with massive layoffs caused by draconian regulation which sparks a recession that spirals into a depression which spreads worldwide and we end up in a huge global economic depression which makes the 1930's look like--- a cake walk...
OK how about this scenario where we DIDNT take action AND (hey!) we didnt need to! Yay us we made the right decision in this case. No big economic consequences we get to keep the ozone layer, yadda yadda, over all, this is a good future to be in.
HOW ABOUT this one? Where we DID take action and it's a good thing too because all the doomsayers turned out to be right. Weellll, we still have the cost associated with that, but in this case it was money well spent because the money and the regulation allowed us to counteract climate change. It still happened, but we managed it, it's a different world, but it's livable. over all, we're still here, i give it a smiley
ANNND now let's look at the uber bad scenario... Where those pesky doom-sayers turned out to be right and we didnt take action. (OH NOES) Now, since we granted the extreme with the first future we should grant it here too and in that case it gets kinda ugly...Cause we got economic, political, social, environmental, and public health CATASTROPHES on a global scale this here is the worst case scenario. This is the sea level rising 10-20 feet, entire coastal contries disappearing. Hundreds of millions of people world-wide displaced moving in on their neighbors, causing wide-spread warfare over scarce resources and long-standing hatreds. Entire forests die or burn, massive droughts alternating with catastrophic floods. The upper hemisphere turns into a dust bowl. We're talkin a world straight out of science-fiction. Diseases rampant, katrina like storm systems become the norm... you get the idea. This future makes Al Gore look like a sissified wimp who sugar-coated the bad news.
(WHEW!) ok, so we've simplified things a bit the clue should be the smiley face, any diagram with smiley faces, certainly has some complexities underneath. OK i'll shut up soon but i leave you with this summation:

The question, fellow gamers, is not whether or not global warming is real or not. Cause really, that isnt important. No, the question is, are we going to act or not?
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05-10-11 08:38 AM
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The flaw in most of those assumptions is that you think that acting is going to bankrupt us and doing nothing is free. Um, you do realize gas prices are hitting $4/gal and rising right? It is only going to keep up like this. When I was 10 years old, gas was 90 cents/gal. When my siblings were kids in the 1960s gas was around 25 cents. To not change will cost us a fortune because the cost of the fossil fuels will continue to rise.
The flaw in most of those assumptions is that you think that acting is going to bankrupt us and doing nothing is free. Um, you do realize gas prices are hitting $4/gal and rising right? It is only going to keep up like this. When I was 10 years old, gas was 90 cents/gal. When my siblings were kids in the 1960s gas was around 25 cents. To not change will cost us a fortune because the cost of the fossil fuels will continue to rise.
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05-10-11 03:57 PM
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Wow Elara, if you really read my post, then you'd know that you are agreeing with me. So why are you doing it in a way that's confrontational? Same team same team! My point was that the risk of not acting is FAR greater than the risk we face if we do act. When faced with an uncertainty, isnt it logical to not waste time with what we do not know (whether it's true or not) and act inside a realm that we have control over (To act, or not)?
Wow Elara, if you really read my post, then you'd know that you are agreeing with me. So why are you doing it in a way that's confrontational? Same team same team! My point was that the risk of not acting is FAR greater than the risk we face if we do act. When faced with an uncertainty, isnt it logical to not waste time with what we do not know (whether it's true or not) and act inside a realm that we have control over (To act, or not)?
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05-10-11 06:01 PM
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Elara :

The energy problem in my eyes significantly comes from, for example petroleum in the U.S.:

the government owning a lot of it,
restricting surveying for it,
restricting extraction,
taxing the extraction,
taxing the profits from selling it,
that the government requires some be put back in the ground for "emergencies",
taxing the consumption,
regulating the vehicles for such consumption,
near continuously inflating the money supply and doing so radically in the near past
and etc.

Though, yes, demand from Asia is also very important.
Elara :

The energy problem in my eyes significantly comes from, for example petroleum in the U.S.:

the government owning a lot of it,
restricting surveying for it,
restricting extraction,
taxing the extraction,
taxing the profits from selling it,
that the government requires some be put back in the ground for "emergencies",
taxing the consumption,
regulating the vehicles for such consumption,
near continuously inflating the money supply and doing so radically in the near past
and etc.

Though, yes, demand from Asia is also very important.
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(edited by TheMichaelOnline on 05-10-11 06:06 PM)    

05-10-11 07:12 PM
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phredward : I had to cut my post halfway because we needed to leave... the rest of the statement was that acting will not necessarily be more expensive in the long run, like you state that it will. We do need to act, and honestly even if there is not a threat it is going to be better in the long run that we did anyway because as it stands right now our energy supply is not sustainable. The initial cost of development and installation of renewable energy such as sun and wind is high, but after that you have the cost of occasional maintenance and that is it. There will never be a shortage, and if there is then we have bigger problems than energy shortages (you know, like the destruction of the solar system). Your post made the assumption that the costs will cause permanent tax increases at the least and at the worst a global depression. Honestly, it wouldn't. But the "skeptics" (who are largely funded by oil companies) want you to think that it will.


TheMichaelOnline : The energy problem comes from us using a finite resource as our primary fuel. We have been using oil and its byproducts for only a few centuries and we have nearly depleted it... and instead of looking for new sources, people (mostly people making money off it) instead want to just keep on going like nothing is wrong.
phredward : I had to cut my post halfway because we needed to leave... the rest of the statement was that acting will not necessarily be more expensive in the long run, like you state that it will. We do need to act, and honestly even if there is not a threat it is going to be better in the long run that we did anyway because as it stands right now our energy supply is not sustainable. The initial cost of development and installation of renewable energy such as sun and wind is high, but after that you have the cost of occasional maintenance and that is it. There will never be a shortage, and if there is then we have bigger problems than energy shortages (you know, like the destruction of the solar system). Your post made the assumption that the costs will cause permanent tax increases at the least and at the worst a global depression. Honestly, it wouldn't. But the "skeptics" (who are largely funded by oil companies) want you to think that it will.


TheMichaelOnline : The energy problem comes from us using a finite resource as our primary fuel. We have been using oil and its byproducts for only a few centuries and we have nearly depleted it... and instead of looking for new sources, people (mostly people making money off it) instead want to just keep on going like nothing is wrong.
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05-10-11 07:17 PM
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Ah good. Happy to see this was settled and once again, I was right.
Ah good. Happy to see this was settled and once again, I was right.
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05-10-11 07:31 PM
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LMAO you still dont quite see that what i'm saying lines up with your opinion perfectly. i dont know how i can make myself more clear that we are arguing the SAME point Elara. The same one. What I said, you said in a different way. Which somehow makes me wrong? I dont think the depression that would come from acting when we dont need to would be unresolveable. We'd get thru it. You cant just pick one part of my post and harp on it and render my entire point invalid. That's like me saying that september eleventh was a good thing because it freed up some valuable real estate locations. Crazy.
LMAO you still dont quite see that what i'm saying lines up with your opinion perfectly. i dont know how i can make myself more clear that we are arguing the SAME point Elara. The same one. What I said, you said in a different way. Which somehow makes me wrong? I dont think the depression that would come from acting when we dont need to would be unresolveable. We'd get thru it. You cant just pick one part of my post and harp on it and render my entire point invalid. That's like me saying that september eleventh was a good thing because it freed up some valuable real estate locations. Crazy.
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05-10-11 07:33 PM
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Elara :

Eh, as far as I know there have been fears of running out of petroleum for near a century. I'm very skeptical whether that time is near.

Perhaps the current core of oil production (the extremely cheap stuff, few bucks per barrel to extract, from the likes of the Middle East) will be gone over the next several decades but there is plenty of oil beyond that at higher prices (currently, anyways - hopefully relevant things are cheapened), even half of the current market price. In my opinion, whether that other oil or some alternative wins out should be decided by the mutually beneficial voluntary exchange of people participating in the market for energy, not by the violently-meddlesome-in-the-affairs-of-others hand of the state.
Elara :

Eh, as far as I know there have been fears of running out of petroleum for near a century. I'm very skeptical whether that time is near.

Perhaps the current core of oil production (the extremely cheap stuff, few bucks per barrel to extract, from the likes of the Middle East) will be gone over the next several decades but there is plenty of oil beyond that at higher prices (currently, anyways - hopefully relevant things are cheapened), even half of the current market price. In my opinion, whether that other oil or some alternative wins out should be decided by the mutually beneficial voluntary exchange of people participating in the market for energy, not by the violently-meddlesome-in-the-affairs-of-others hand of the state.
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(edited by TheMichaelOnline on 05-10-11 07:35 PM)    

05-11-11 06:07 PM
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phredward : Really? Because my argument is that the costs are not really that expensive and every statement you make, even in the "we acted, and it happens" scenario talks about how it is a massive cost. It just goes from a "big waste of money" to "money well spent"... so if you are saying A and I say B, you somehow get that they are the same thing? I think you are confused on what my point was to begin with. To say it in a way you will get, I am saying that there will not be a depression if we act when we don't have to because the costs are not even remotely that high.
phredward : Really? Because my argument is that the costs are not really that expensive and every statement you make, even in the "we acted, and it happens" scenario talks about how it is a massive cost. It just goes from a "big waste of money" to "money well spent"... so if you are saying A and I say B, you somehow get that they are the same thing? I think you are confused on what my point was to begin with. To say it in a way you will get, I am saying that there will not be a depression if we act when we don't have to because the costs are not even remotely that high.
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05-11-11 07:06 PM
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Elara : All that i'm saying is that i'd rather be apart of a future that where the outcomes is (potentially, not saying definite, after all i went to an extreme just to illustrate the point)a depression that we could eventually recover from as opposed to our global impact tipping the scales and causing worldwide devastation. we may differ in semantics, but we agree that we should do something about our current environmental impact. My arguement is aimed at the topic of this board (global warming is a lie). Like they say, "it's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it." If it doesnt turn out to be super mega costly to reform our current way of life, yay! so be it! that's great news. but to not plan for the worst case in all scenarios, in my opinion, is foolhardy. Dont bother questioning whether or not global warming is real. we need a change. cause if global warming is real and we choose to do nothing, then we can kiss our current way of life goodbye. i'd rather deal with the flu (possible temporary depression) than with the ebola virus (the global shift that would wipe out civilization as we know it). if you want to get into a debate over how much or how little the cost would be to make a change, i'm not that guy.
Elara : All that i'm saying is that i'd rather be apart of a future that where the outcomes is (potentially, not saying definite, after all i went to an extreme just to illustrate the point)a depression that we could eventually recover from as opposed to our global impact tipping the scales and causing worldwide devastation. we may differ in semantics, but we agree that we should do something about our current environmental impact. My arguement is aimed at the topic of this board (global warming is a lie). Like they say, "it's better to have it and not need it than to need it and not have it." If it doesnt turn out to be super mega costly to reform our current way of life, yay! so be it! that's great news. but to not plan for the worst case in all scenarios, in my opinion, is foolhardy. Dont bother questioning whether or not global warming is real. we need a change. cause if global warming is real and we choose to do nothing, then we can kiss our current way of life goodbye. i'd rather deal with the flu (possible temporary depression) than with the ebola virus (the global shift that would wipe out civilization as we know it). if you want to get into a debate over how much or how little the cost would be to make a change, i'm not that guy.
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05-12-11 04:49 AM
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phredward : Fair enough, and much clearer. Truce?

Also, random side note... but I have to hit reply on the first page to see any of the posts on the second... anyone else having that problem?
phredward : Fair enough, and much clearer. Truce?

Also, random side note... but I have to hit reply on the first page to see any of the posts on the second... anyone else having that problem?
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