The plan has the best of intentions, I'll say that for it. However, it simply doesn't work.

First of all, we're already in debt up to our ears (and it's my generation, not the politicians', that will have to pay for it) and if this bill goes through it will only be adding WAY more money than it needs to. Economics is simple: if you spend less than you make, you will have a profit. THIS IS STUFF YOU LEARNED IN KINDERGARTEN WHEN YOU BOUGHT YOUR FIRST PIGGY BANK.

Secondly, if we put health care under the control of the government, what is that? Well, first things first it's socialism. But more importantly, if we keep giving up our rights and placing our decisions in the government's hands, that basically becomes a dictatorship. Think about it.

Third, the new plan will strangle thousands of jobs in insurance and health care. Places like Wall Greens or however you spell it have already publicly stated their official intent to stop taking medicare patients because they simply can't afford them, and a third of the doctors in the U.S. have announced their intention to quit entirely because, again, they can't make any money off of the new system.

Now, you can wait until after you finish reading this, but go down to the DMV and ask for anything. A driver's license, an eye test, anything. Chat with the receptionist. Do you see how long you have to wait for anything, and how little they tell you until you "need to know" it? Those are the people that are going to be running your health care.

Fifth and final, Obama and his flock actually had to *remove* sections of the bill that gave federal tax money to abortion doctors. This should not have even made it in the bill to begin with; and had it not been taken out, I would have refused to pay taxes. Just watch me. I'm not going to support killing babies just because it was in a 2.6 trillion dollar bill.

I could go on, but I'm in a bit of a hurry and I can't think of anything else off the top of my head, so ciao.

well with anuthing u have 2 struggle 2 grow i think this new plan will b good for the american people but we need to keep the faith and look closely at what changes r being made in the world

Geeogree, while I agree with you on the premiums, it's the same here and always has been. There is no "I'm not a risky moron" discount for healthcare in the US. There are no discounts at all. It isn't car insurance. So it is pointless to bring it up because the only way it will happen is, guess what, reform!

I do like the doctor in the blog you posted though, and I agree with that idea for the most part. The problem is the fees for the tests can run into the thousands, so how can a person afford to have an MRI or an X-RAY to find out if something is wrong unless the insurance pays for it?

well, that would be part of the details.... cost would probably determine the types of things covered.

I guess my point in all this is that increasing government involvement is not going to reduce costs long term. Government intervention rarely does.


And maybe there should be a "I'm not a risky moron" discount.... encourage people to live smart.

I dunno.... 2000 pages of government intervention is not going to fix the problem. It's only going to make everything more complicated and costly.

Fining people for not having health insurance? That's totally outrageous, and quite frankly, wrong. Just great, this really is a death wish for American freedom. Now I hate this bill even more.

I do not like the health care bill at all (but i am not going to say anyone who wants reform is socialist). I think people should earn things for themselves, This is going to be like welfare, a good idea at first meant to help people who need it but will turn into a massively abused program that has no way of being payed for. also i think that the fact of companies are trying to pay back the bailout money as fast as possible because they don't want to be controlled by the government should tell people something as well.

well, I've heard so far that at least 11 States are already planning to fight this bill because it is unconstitutional.

forcing anyone to buy something and fining them if they don't is total BS and goes FAR beyond the limits of power the government has. While it's likely that the mandatory insurance portion will be the only thing to go out of the bill.... at least that is a step in the right direction.


What I honestly would have preferred would have been a dozen small bills containing some of the measures proposed in this bill. And each bill could have been debated on the merits on the idea presented instead of a 2000+ page bill that I highly doubt anyone has fully read or fully understands.

The other thing that I dislike is how many deals were done in order to get this bill passed. I know that happens all the time and that both "sides" do it... but I am getting sick and tired of the way "democracy" seems to work. It's not really for the people.... it's for MY people so that I can get re-elected and garner a wage much higher than any regular member of society and a retirement package better than most people could ever hope for.

Yay democracy!

This bill is the most socialist thing I have ever seen in the United State. people think Bush was bad. Well this guy isn't doing such a spectacular job. I hope the states do something about this bill.

In most states you are required by law to have car insurance and fined if you do not, and no one complains about it. And on that note, I assume this will be much the same... not everyone actually HAS car insurance, and you only find out if you get pulled over or in an accident. I have a feeling that the health insurance will be much the same way, they only find out you don't have it when you need it.

Also, there is a state offered car insurance to help those that can't afford the insane costs of car insurance with most companies. It doesn't hurt the companies and it helps to keep costs down. That example is why I wanted the public option for health care because it would have had similar effects.

However, I must say I am really happy that they extended the age you can be covered by your parent's insurance to 26. Hopefully I can get back on my dad's insurance so that I can actually go to a doctor again. As it stands right now, I can only go if I absolutely have no choice but to go, and they charge me $100 a month for the privileged of paying $5 less than I would on my medication than I would if I bought it with no insurance at all.

And Geeogree, I kinda agree, there should be an "I'm not a moron" discount on the premium. Or we should have just copied France's system.

In addition, I did a bit of research and found that what the earlier post said about Cuba's heath care system should not be completely dismissed. Sure, the US embargo hurts them (since it makes getting a lot of stuff very hard), but they actually have a much healthier nation than the US, lower instances of things like AIDS, higher life expectancy, lower mortality rate of children, etc. All of this can be found with a simple wiki search (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Cuba)

You are only required to buy car insurance if you own a car, and nothing mandates that you own a car. The government option is really crappy insurance that doesn't cover much of anything, so it's really just a last resort. Furthermore, the car insurance you are required to buy is Liability insurance, which guarantees that you can pay for a certain amount of damage that you cause to other people's property, where health insurance pays for damage you inflict upon yourself or was beyond anyone's control.

In all reality, if people saved more of their money and used less credit, insurance premiums would probably come down because people won't need it as much. But because people don't save money anymore and use so much credit, they are going to rape us with the price. Saving might not alleviate the whole problem, but I am confidant that it would greatly reduce and slow it.

That article about the Cuban healthcare system is interesting, but all of the statistics out of Cuba go through the government first and they can easily doctor up the results to better their image. Additionally, the article states that foreigners and diplomats are treated in separate, special hospitals, so it is likely that they receive better treatment to, again, better the image of the country. Their system also undermines the ability for the patients and doctors to make a choice, which is an idea the US was founded on. The vast majority of their doctors are probably forced into medicine or receive dire consequences if they refuse.

Just because Castro is a dictator does not mean that everyone is forced to do things. Also, information from the WHO is collected independently I believe.

Also an interesting article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_France

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LeqfZWGBh18 ------- "F.E.M.A Trailers on the move"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZVauU3KRsU ------- "underground food storage"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSIOaTCxMVw ------ "RE What if Gerard Paul is right"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2Nv-iK9-90 ------ "From Hitler to Health care in America"


This is a Quote from BILL1224602 research:

"Health Care and Small Business Suffer Under GoverBefore Hitler, we had very good medical care. Many American doctors trained at the University of Vienna. After Hitler, health care was socialized, free for everyone. Doctors were salaried by the government. The problem was, since it was free, the people were going to the doctors for everything. When the good doctor arrived at his office at 8 a.m., 40 people were already waiting and, at the same time, the hospitals were full. If you needed elective surgery, you had to wait a year or two for your turn. There was no money for research as it was poured into socialized medicine. Research at the medical schools literally stopped, so the best doctors left Austria and emigrated to other countries.

As for healthcare, our tax rates went up to 80% of our income. Newlyweds immediately received a $1,000 loan from the government to establish a household. We had big programs for families. All day care and education were free. High schools were taken over by the government and college tuition was subsidized. Everyone was entitled to free handouts, such as food stamps, clothing, and housing.

We had another agency designed to monitor business. My brother-in-law owned a restaurant that had square tables. Government officials told him he had to replace them with round tables because people might bump themselves on the corners. Then they said he had to have additional bathroom facilities. It was just a small dairy business with a snack bar. He couldn't meet all the demands. Soon, he went out of business. If the government owned the large businesses and not many small ones existed, it could be in control.

We had consumer protection. We were told how to shop and what to buy. Free enterprise was essentially abolished. We had a planning agency specially designed for farmers. The agents would go to the farms, count the live-stock, then tell the farmers what to produce, and how to produce it."


Now ask yourself If "Big Brother" America cannot beat the (Elite=NWO=Rich people who want to rule the world) Then what will happen to third world countries? Countries without guns? The rest of the WORLD? The Health Care Bill is the beginning of America's fight for lasting freedom!!!

what i don't get is why don't people look at the VA? it is suppose to take care of veterans but is always making cuts that hurt them (my grandpa is a vet so i know what i am talking about) for example the incident not too long ago where the va was buying multi injection insulin shots and instead of using it like they were suppose to (use it all one 1 person, they inject him once and give him the shot to use again) they were using it on multiple people, we give clean needles to junkies but not to our vets? they postpone things that are suppose to be don (my grandpa is suppose to get a colonoscipy every 5 years but they changed it to 10 to cut the budget and every time they do one they find pallops which can lead to cancer which there is a history of in the family)so if the government cant run the va right how can they run all insurance right?

http://www.therealcuba.com/Page10.htm

Here is Cuban Health Care for you.

I heard an interesting comment concerning it, from Jay Leno:

"More people understand the plot of Lost". Now that's saying something, don't you think?

Are social programs really so bad? I love the universal Health care in my country. I argue that the quality of treatment is not as sub-standard as people think. In dense urban areas wait times can occur, but patients are prioritized based on their urgency and it is rarely the case that someone with a life threatening problem will be denied any kind of attention.
Outside of big cities like Toronto, like in my local city of Ottawa, I can feel comfortable walking in to an emergency room and receive treatment in a reasonable amount of time. If you travel to small towns outside the city, they will take you with no delay. The whole system is very non-invasive, and privacy of your personal information is championed. Not to mention that it is all free, whether its a cut or a heart transplant.

Originally posted by ICEman64

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It is definately not the right way to go. The more parts of the economy the government gets their hands on, the more bad things will happen. Our health care system is already the best in the world, so I don't think the whole system needs to be torn down. Adjustments could be made to help certain people, but for the most part we don't need a change. Things could definately be done in a smaller, more cost efficient way.

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yes the healthcare system in the US is good....... if you can afford it.

I hate it. its a very bad choice. From what I've heard and read they are making very bad decisions. Instead of making a unified health plan like they should, they are just forcing us to take whatever plan we can get by imposing fines if we don't have any.

I hate it. This is just another way of the government taking control of our lives.

If it eventually makes progress as far as what it’s said to be intended to do than I am all for it… I just hope that eventually with all the technology available that there will actually cures to diseases. That would truly be progress…


If the new healthcare plan at the end of the day is nothing more than another form of grandstanding between two political parties sadly it will be regression from where we are currently.

It would be nice if the new healthcare plan opened the door for a program similar to Canada’s national health insurance so every citizen can get adequate care regardless of income level.