Remove Ad, Sign Up
Remove Ad, Sign Up
Register to Remove Ad
Register to Remove Ad
Register to Remove Ad
Register to Remove Ad
Signup for free
for more features
and less ads
About   Users   Help
Users & Guests Online
On Page:
Directory: 9
Entire Site: 28 & 170
Page Staff: EX Palen, SonicOlmstead,
09-20-19 01:22 PM

Thread Information

Views
1,106
Replies
22
Rating
6
Status
CLOSED
Thread
Creator
Divine Aurora
07-28-17 10:10 AM
Last
Post
Fancdew
01-02-18 09:15 PM

Thread Actions

Thread Closed




Add to favorites

Order
Page
Posts
 

Transgender individuals not allowed to serve in military!?

 

07-28-17 10:10 AM
Divine Aurora is Offline
Link | ID: 1345507 | 335 Words

Divine Aurora
Level: 82


POSTS: 2113/2282
POST EXP: 187485
LVL EXP: 5208441
CP: 11519.6
VIZ: 405137

Likes: 1  Dislikes: 0
Well seems the controversy never ends in this administration but he may be onto something here...maybe(I like to play both sides of the fence from time to time). Anyways President Trump has basically stated that Transgender individuals cannot serve in the United States military due to medical costs  of supporting their lifestyle and instability. Now granted it does become costly if Transgender individuals are taking/buying hormones and doing the "corrective surgery"  at the expense of the military medical programs for veterans but how are these costs any different from a veteran that is permanently paralyzed or needs care for the rest of there life.

So I want to hear what other people think, should transgenders be allowed to serve or not?
 

In my opinion It would create more problems then it's worth.I believe the military is old school when it comes to guidelines and for lack of a better word "code of honor". In my opinion the military is suppose to portray a certain image to represent strength, defense, liberty, freedom and sorry to say upon seeing transgendered/homosexual people I only get the idea of freedom. But another issue that arises from this is the bigotry already within the military when it comes to women and homosexual individuals, at the end of the day if your fellow soldiers don't have trust in your ability to carry out your duties on the front line or in the field it could potentially blow the mission and get everyone killed. That level of trust just isn't there between the transgendered community and the military and I feel as though due to that level of acceptance and trust not being there it'll create more problems than it's worth and wined up getting people killed. And also just something to think about the military is suppose to represent strength and power and be able to mentally intimidate our enemies and I'm sorry but the transgender community in the military would just make the United States look weaker to the world.
Site Staff
Content Adder


Affected by 'Laziness Syndrome'

Registered: 06-20-13
Last Post: 2 days
Last Active: 1 day

Post Rating: 1   Liked By: Abdullahboys,

Related Content

Content Coming Soon

07-28-17 10:47 AM
thing1 is Offline
Link | ID: 1345512 | 450 Words

thing1
Thingywingy
Level: 205


POSTS: 15958/17074
POST EXP: 915217
LVL EXP: 125233828
CP: 29666.5
VIZ: 335171

Likes: 4  Dislikes: 2
I'm going to try to put this as simply as possible, without compromising my views or opinions, while also trying not to offend others, which I know will be difficult. 

I 100% support the ban, to an extent. If you are transgendered, you should not be able to serve while recieving "treatment". While you are taking those medication and recieving all that stuff, you are non-deployable, which makes you a worthless soldier. Now, you want to identify as a woman while you have a penis, I really don't care. But, you need to dress by what's between your legs and follow AR 670-1 (essentially the dress code of the Army). Having to go through all the medical requirements is not a necessity for being a soldier, therefore, the government should not pay a dime of it. However, if you want to pay for it, go ahead. I'm all for that. But not while you are serving; that makes you non-deployable, and thus, a worthless soldier and a waste of space. 

"But what about the guy that breaks his finger! He's non-deployable for a few weeks!" I hear you say. "He needs to be kicked out by your logic." No, he doesn't, and that's a cope out answer looking for anything so you can argue your point of view. That broken finger will be better in a few weeks, and he can still do stuff that is considered mission critical. But that person getting a sex transformation is not. 

That's my view on it, as a veteran who actually served active duty. I was given an honorable discharge (not a medical discharge, for whatever stupid army reason) because I got hurt. I messed up my back and knees. I could have gotten fixed, but I wouldn't have been as effective as somebody else. So, I had to get out. Same thing here. The surgery and the process of a sex change is not a neccessity, so it should not be covered by the government. 

I'll say it one more time in plaining English for those "Social Justice Warriors" who are raging at me and my views and wanting to crucify me because I don't agree with them: I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH A PERSON WHO THINKS THEY ARE A DIFFERENT GENDER THAN THEY ACTUALLY ARE (AKA, A TRANSGENDER PERSON) SERVING IN THE MILITARY AS LONG AS THEY DRESS LIKE THE GENDER THEY ACTUALLY ARE WHILE IN UNIFORM AND RESPRESENTING THE MILITARY. HOWEVER, THEY SHOULD NOT DRESS LIKE THE SEX THEY ARE NOT WHILE IN UNIFORM, RECIEVE "TREATMENT" WHILE SERVING, AND ANY "TREATMENT" BE PAID BY THEIR DIME AND THEIR DIME ONLY! ( AKA, NOT THE GOVERNMENT'S OR THE MILITARY'S MONEY )
Vizzed Elite
What is life?


Affected by 'Laziness Syndrome'

Registered: 02-03-11
Location: In the South
Last Post: 15 days
Last Active: 14 hours

Post Rating: 2   Liked By: Abdullahboys, Blubcreator, m0ssb3rg935, Sword Legion,

07-28-17 11:17 AM
EX Palen is Offline
Link | ID: 1345517 | 188 Words

EX Palen
Spanish Davideo7
Level: 116


POSTS: 3873/5011
POST EXP: 879577
LVL EXP: 16899798
CP: 133922.0
VIZ: 8163560

Likes: 3  Dislikes: 2
A decision from Trump that spans a discussion? What an unexpected surprise.

Jokes aside, I just don't see the military as an entity who is ready to welcome transgenders. I'm not American, but here in Spain there are lots of reports from female soldiers of being spied on and more things probably not suited for this site. Putting in transgender people wouldn't make things easier, even less in an entity where weapons are fully available, at least in a country where civilians aren't allowed to have them except under very strict requirements.

If 'Murica's military is anything similar to my country's, then maybe it's for the best to rule out transgenders to avoid more than possible harassment and its consequences. If it's not an entity open to changes, then that mindset must be changed first, otherwise trouble is sure to arise.

And well, after this comes how useful of a soldier would a transgender be, which I can't say because I haven't been in the military nor it's such an active military like 'Murica. I better leave that to the people who know, like the poster above me.
Local Moderator
Game Guide Manager, Content Adder
Vizzed #1 Scooter fan


Affected by 'Carpal Tunnel Syndrome'

Registered: 07-03-13
Location: Barcelona
Last Post: 3 hours
Last Active: 42 min.

Post Rating: 1   Liked By: Abdullahboys, m0ssb3rg935, Vanelan,

07-29-17 08:25 PM
earthwarrior is Offline
Link | ID: 1345629 | 27 Words

earthwarrior
Level: 116


POSTS: 4790/4807
POST EXP: 221310
LVL EXP: 17107110
CP: 21369.2
VIZ: 114673

Likes: 3  Dislikes: 3
This is completely ridiculous. Millions of dollars are wasted elsewhere and nothing is being done about that. This isn't about money, it's an attack on transgender people.
Vizzed Elite
Vizzed's #1 Kid Icarus Uprising Fan! 2nd place in December 2012 VCS!


Affected by 'Laziness Syndrome'

Registered: 07-03-12
Location: Mars
Last Post: 252 days
Last Active: 182 days

Post Rating: 0   Liked By: Deacon DeMan, Patrick Star, TheFadedWarrior,

07-29-17 08:49 PM
Furret is Offline
Link | ID: 1345630 | 47 Words

Furret
Davideo69
Level: 129


POSTS: 4181/6277
POST EXP: 349437
LVL EXP: 24815996
CP: 35785.6
VIZ: 2578893

Likes: 2  Dislikes: 0
I live in a country where our army operates differently and where we have different laws, so I'll take thing1's word here as an american vet. 

I believe that it's not about the rights of transgenders but about the efficiency of the army so I'll support it. 
Global Moderator
Activities Manager; Minecraft Server Admin
#1 Ace Attorney fan


Affected by 'Laziness Syndrome'

Registered: 11-25-12
Location: Belgium
Last Post: 14 days
Last Active: 1 hour

(edited by Furret on 07-30-17 08:31 AM)     Post Rating: 2   Liked By: Abdullahboys, thing1,

07-29-17 09:05 PM
Momo Aria is Offline
Link | ID: 1345631 | 98 Words

Momo Aria
AriaAngelDream
xxAriaxx
Level: 84


POSTS: 2269/2359
POST EXP: 165461
LVL EXP: 5445275
CP: 6961.2
VIZ: 63471

Likes: 0  Dislikes: 0
On the bright side, if another war was to happen, and America decides they need to draft soldiers to fight, just say you're transgender, and you're safe.

Totally not quoting a youtuber... but thanks Buckley.

Honestly, for one thing, it's sad to see trans don't have the rights to serve for their country, but EX is right about harassment and mistreatment. If you get harassed for something silly in the military, then it's probably best to not serve in the military. I mean, you'll do much better in places where you'll be treated better rather than the military.
Trusted Member
Happy Vocaloid Lover


Affected by 'Laziness Syndrome'

Registered: 07-14-13
Location: In the depths of hell and beyond
Last Post: 308 days
Last Active: 294 days

07-29-17 11:50 PM
thing1 is Offline
Link | ID: 1345641 | 93 Words

thing1
Thingywingy
Level: 205


POSTS: 15971/17074
POST EXP: 915217
LVL EXP: 125233828
CP: 29666.5
VIZ: 335171

Likes: 0  Dislikes: 0
Furret : Nope. Not a WAR veteran. Just a veteran. I don't know about your country. but BIG DIFFERENCE here in America when you say which one you are, and I've made sure to never say that I'm a WAR veteran. 
xxAriaxx : I think that if people are trans, they should be allowed to serve, as long as they can pass all the tests and requirements, follow the rules, and don't get special treatment. What I have a problem with is somebody who says they are trans getting treatment while they are actively serving. 
Vizzed Elite
What is life?


Affected by 'Laziness Syndrome'

Registered: 02-03-11
Location: In the South
Last Post: 15 days
Last Active: 14 hours

07-30-17 05:34 AM
Furret is Offline
Link | ID: 1345648 | 6 Words

Furret
Davideo69
Level: 129


POSTS: 4182/6277
POST EXP: 349437
LVL EXP: 24815996
CP: 35785.6
VIZ: 2578893

Likes: 0  Dislikes: 0
thing1 : oh my bad, sorry
Global Moderator
Activities Manager; Minecraft Server Admin
#1 Ace Attorney fan


Affected by 'Laziness Syndrome'

Registered: 11-25-12
Location: Belgium
Last Post: 14 days
Last Active: 1 hour

08-09-17 05:25 PM
m0ssb3rg935 is Offline
Link | ID: 1346273 | 217 Words

m0ssb3rg935
m0ssb3rg935
Level: 100


POSTS: 2623/3547
POST EXP: 278481
LVL EXP: 10318240
CP: 21226.2
VIZ: 317487

Likes: 1  Dislikes: 1
earthwarrior : I don't really believe this is an attack on anyone. More than anything, this just makes sense and I'll explain why.

Literally half of almost everyone I talk to regularly is a member of the LGBT community and talking with them and getting their take on things has opened up my point of view on a lot of things. After having Gender Dysphoria explained to me a couple of ways by a few people, I've come to the conclusion that transgender individuals, putting aside the money end of the issue that Thing brought up and the harassment issue that Palen brought up, and this is going to sound rough, are not mentally healthy enough to serve in the military. If Gender Dysphoria really is as much of a debilitating mental condition as I'm told by people who suffer from it, and that a very alarming percentage of the transgender community attempt suicide, they just don't need to be put into those kinds of high stress situations. It's not good for them and it's not good for the rest of the soldiers in that unit. It might even prove to be a risk to the other soldiers to put someone who's less than stable in that position with military training and access to automatic weapons and explosives.
Administrator
Social Media Manager; User Manager
Token Clueless Guy to Make Others Look Smarter


Affected by 'Laziness Syndrome'

Registered: 03-09-13
Location: Tennessee
Last Post: 32 days
Last Active: 2 days

Post Rating: 0   Liked By: thing1,

08-09-17 05:28 PM
TheFadedWarrior is Offline
Link | ID: 1346274 | 81 Words

Level: 103


POSTS: 3442/3565
POST EXP: 266114
LVL EXP: 11202065
CP: 19800.6
VIZ: 156160

Likes: 2  Dislikes: 1
If transgenders are perfectly willing to risk their lives to protect their country, who are we to stop them from doing so? They are humans just like us cisgender people. I completely agree with earthwarrior; this isn't about money. Operations/hormones are barely a cost at all compared to some of the other, less important, things our government pays for. This is an attack on transgender people.

Remember back when everyone said Trump was the most pro-LGBT president yet? Yeah, that's bulls***.
Vizzed Elite
The Melee Master


Affected by 'Laziness Syndrome'

Registered: 02-19-12
Location: There
Last Post: 68 days
Last Active: 12 days

Post Rating: 1   Liked By: Deacon DeMan, gamerforlifeforever,

08-09-17 05:36 PM
m0ssb3rg935 is Offline
Link | ID: 1346275 | 12 Words

m0ssb3rg935
m0ssb3rg935
Level: 100


POSTS: 2624/3547
POST EXP: 278481
LVL EXP: 10318240
CP: 21226.2
VIZ: 317487

Likes: 0  Dislikes: 0
If you haven't, see my post above.

EDIT:
TheFadedWarrior: forgot to summon.
Administrator
Social Media Manager; User Manager
Token Clueless Guy to Make Others Look Smarter


Affected by 'Laziness Syndrome'

Registered: 03-09-13
Location: Tennessee
Last Post: 32 days
Last Active: 2 days

(edited by m0ssb3rg935 on 08-09-17 05:37 PM)    

08-09-17 05:46 PM
TheFadedWarrior is Offline
Link | ID: 1346277 | 168 Words

Level: 103


POSTS: 3444/3565
POST EXP: 266114
LVL EXP: 11202065
CP: 19800.6
VIZ: 156160

Likes: 0  Dislikes: 0
m0ssb3rg935: Thanks, didn't see that because you posted it while I was typing my post

You bring up some very valid points. Many transgenders, especially ones that recently transitioned, are more prone to having depression because of the pressure put on them by others. They're also much more likely to be harassed. But here's my counter to that argument: Banning transgenders from enlisting in the military is not going to help that. If anything, it will make them feel like they are accepted even less than they are, which could potentially raise their suicide/depression rates.

I have a possible solution to the whole thing. If there is some way to prove it, they military could only accept transgenders/transsexuals that have been their "new" gender/sex for a long enough time. That way, by then, they should have hardened up and be expecting how they will be treated. Also, it's completely voluntary by them to enlist. They
should be aware of what they could face with harassment and whatnot.
Vizzed Elite
The Melee Master


Affected by 'Laziness Syndrome'

Registered: 02-19-12
Location: There
Last Post: 68 days
Last Active: 12 days

08-09-17 06:53 PM
m0ssb3rg935 is Offline
Link | ID: 1346278 | 208 Words

m0ssb3rg935
m0ssb3rg935
Level: 100


POSTS: 2625/3547
POST EXP: 278481
LVL EXP: 10318240
CP: 21226.2
VIZ: 317487

Likes: 0  Dislikes: 0
TheFadedWarrior : Yeah I could definitely see how being rejected from the military after wanting to volunteer for it could be discouraging at the very least. Though, I also get the feeling that some may enlist with the intent of just getting to surgery and supplies on the government's dime. Sounds stupid, I know, but a lot of people join the military for the wrong reason and wind up biting off more than they can chew.

I don't entirely disagree with an outright ban, but I don't entirely agree with it, either. Being openly trans before going into the military should raise some big red flags but I don't think it should be an immediate disqualifier and that it should be handled on a case-by-case basis with each individual being evaluated. If they are to serve though, I think it's best that they be segregated into their own units, just as I believe the same should be done with women who serve. There's less distraction from what you're supposed to be doing if it's not mixed and it's somewhat unrealistic to expect the average woman to be able to carry a man and her equipment if need be. Carrying someone closer to her own weight makes much more sense.
Administrator
Social Media Manager; User Manager
Token Clueless Guy to Make Others Look Smarter


Affected by 'Laziness Syndrome'

Registered: 03-09-13
Location: Tennessee
Last Post: 32 days
Last Active: 2 days

08-09-17 07:28 PM
earthwarrior is Offline
Link | ID: 1346279 | 72 Words

earthwarrior
Level: 116


POSTS: 4796/4807
POST EXP: 221310
LVL EXP: 17107110
CP: 21369.2
VIZ: 114673

Likes: 0  Dislikes: 1
m0ssb3rg935 : People already join the military for free college, but I don't think many transgenders would put themselves in that situation just for free treatment. 84 million dollars are spent a year treating erectile dysfunction so spending on treatment that someone actually needs to serve shouldn't be a problem. 
I can see the pros and cons of segregating the military. I'm not really sure if it would work out if implemented though.
Vizzed Elite
Vizzed's #1 Kid Icarus Uprising Fan! 2nd place in December 2012 VCS!


Affected by 'Laziness Syndrome'

Registered: 07-03-12
Location: Mars
Last Post: 252 days
Last Active: 182 days

08-09-17 08:24 PM
thing1 is Offline
Link | ID: 1346282 | 183 Words

thing1
Thingywingy
Level: 205


POSTS: 16004/17074
POST EXP: 915217
LVL EXP: 125233828
CP: 29666.5
VIZ: 335171

Likes: 0  Dislikes: 0
earthwarrior : Please, pray tell, how getting a sex change is a NECESSITY! It's not, and that's why I support the ban. 
And yes, from what I've heard and read (it's been awhile, so no, I can't cite sources), a good chunk of the people who are mentally ill and think they are something they are not, (aka, transgender) join the military with the intent of doing their contract, and not "re-up'ing" just so they can have the surgery. 
As for the ones who join college, the GI BILL is not free. Every month, a soldier has to pay a portion of his or her check towards the Montgomery GI BILL; I had to do it too. However, you can't use it until you've paid for 12 months worth, and served for an entire year (aka, 12 months). I know this because it happened to me. I paid my 12th month payment. However, I got out after 11 1/2 months. I didn't serve those last 2 weeks due to my discharge date, so my 12th payment got given back to me, without my choice. 
Vizzed Elite
What is life?


Affected by 'Laziness Syndrome'

Registered: 02-03-11
Location: In the South
Last Post: 15 days
Last Active: 14 hours

08-09-17 09:43 PM
earthwarrior is Offline
Link | ID: 1346285 | 51 Words

earthwarrior
Level: 116


POSTS: 4797/4807
POST EXP: 221310
LVL EXP: 17107110
CP: 21369.2
VIZ: 114673

Likes: 0  Dislikes: 1
thing1 : If they have the change they need medicine or treatment.
A lot of people join the military just to get educated. If they are serving, and having most of their expenses paid for by the government whats the big deal of having them take a cut of your check?
Vizzed Elite
Vizzed's #1 Kid Icarus Uprising Fan! 2nd place in December 2012 VCS!


Affected by 'Laziness Syndrome'

Registered: 07-03-12
Location: Mars
Last Post: 252 days
Last Active: 182 days

(edited by earthwarrior on 08-09-17 09:48 PM)    

08-09-17 10:45 PM
Boured is Offline
Link | ID: 1346288 | 64 Words

Boured
18mlivingston
DanceDanceRevolution7
Level: 78


POSTS: 1573/1912
POST EXP: 92293
LVL EXP: 4299626
CP: 8316.8
VIZ: 1552295

Likes: 1  Dislikes: 0
I'm not really one to get into political debates due to the fact that I'll most likely get arguments which I'm not good at defending. I really don't care about this whole trump thing, but if trans people can pass the required tests to join the military then I say let them. They proved themselves capable and should be able to serve they're country.
Local Moderator
Gameplay Recorder
The Guildmaster


Affected by 'Laziness Syndrome'

Registered: 06-23-12
Location: My Laptop
Last Post: 24 days
Last Active: 9 days

Post Rating: 1   Liked By: TheFadedWarrior,

10-11-17 05:48 PM
realplayer109 is Offline
Link | ID: 1348747 | 201 Words

realplayer109
Level: 44

POSTS: 490/553
POST EXP: 45177
LVL EXP: 573673
CP: 3130.6
VIZ: 75053

Likes: 0  Dislikes: 0
I just don't get this.

Transgenders carry the same attributes as any normal living being. Why is a change of gender so determined to be frowned upon with the military? I honestly have to inherently disagree with you, an "old-school" style isn't going to work in this day and age.

People have changed, society has also changed. If people can't accept that change then there is going to be major problems. People are offering to serve their life, the one that they chose in order to use it for the help of the country. Why deny them the right to serve their country they love? 

Personally, I believe that you have stereotyped transgenders OP, I don't think they are unreliable, nor about to fail the mission and get you killed. Why should it matter about if the person is "transgender" more so if they are physically, and mentally able to deliver trust to other soldiers? I don't get why this is such an ambiguous point. I respect your opinion, obviously, but you should really consider their ability, rather than what "sexuality" they identify as.

Just remember, it is just a personal opinion, so feel free to rebut anything that I said.
Member
Master of the Shadows


Affected by 'Laziness Syndrome'

Registered: 05-23-14
Last Post: 704 days
Last Active: 94 days

12-15-17 09:45 PM
Oldschool777 is Offline
Link | ID: 1350466 | 151 Words

Oldschool777
Level: 82


POSTS: 1994/2008
POST EXP: 124202
LVL EXP: 5072362
CP: 5375.6
VIZ: 153686

Likes: 0  Dislikes: 1
There are a lot of good points on the thread,unlike what would be on a YT video. I think they should not be allowed to serve. Maybe I am an archaic person,maybe I am from a bygone era,but they would be considered undeployable and hence useless. You would need extra services for them,some may "identify" as another gender or get offended if you address them by their birth gender,and sensitivity training for ALL soldiers. That would cost serious money,not a good idea after a few major storms to address.

The military has changed a lot over the past few decades,but at its core,it is still traditionalist. And if they want to serve their country,what is wrong with them serving as their birth gender? Even the most famous TG,Caitlyn,thinks it was a mistake to be turned into a woman. But the TG's would more than likely demand allowance for themselves,like SJWs would.
Member
Bite me...


Affected by 'Laziness Syndrome'

Registered: 01-07-11
Last Post: 569 days
Last Active: 507 days

12-15-17 11:43 PM
hellno163 is Offline
Link | ID: 1350467 | 20 Words

hellno163
Level: 56


POSTS: 827/919
POST EXP: 20495
LVL EXP: 1375767
CP: 4090.4
VIZ: 181033

Likes: 0  Dislikes: 0
earthwarrior : agreed, then again trump dosn't care about us he only cares about what he thinks is right for america.
Member

Affected by 'Laziness Syndrome'

Registered: 01-15-13
Last Post: 14 days
Last Active: 13 hours

Links



  
  
   Next Page >
   Last Page >>