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You've gotta be kidding me, Nintendo!

 

10-11-15 06:06 AM
Eirinn is Offline
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Before reading this, be warned: I rant a lot. If you will be offended by this, please don't read as I would hate to offend.

Next, I don't need anyone defending or explaining the pricing: I am not attacking Nintendo (no matter how it may sound), and I understand the economics here.

Finally, the actual question is at the end in bold text so feel free to skip the rant and read the question if you'd rather avoid the ranting about your preferred console and company. I do respect Nintendo, but...wow.
___________

So after talking to some friends about a few things, I had decided to go ahead and buy a Wii U simply because I want some Mario games and I don't want a 2/3DS (yes, I changed my mind on that...again...again).

So I swing by Amazon to check out Wii U deals. And then my head begins to hurt.

First off the 8GB Wii U (8GB on a system released in 2013? Whose idea was that?) turns out to only have 3GB of storage space. Now I understand that everyone tells you how much overall space is on their hard drives rather than how much usable space is on them (which is a deceitful practice that I despise, despite it being the norm), but 3GB isn't even enough to power the digital version of one of the Wii U's launch titles, and as we all know, later titles in a system's life tend to be much bigger than launch titles. Definitely not Nintendo's shining moment of genius.

But I got past this quickly as I don't plan to download anything at all on it, ever.

But then the big problem... I need a second controller, but the thing costs almost exactly what a used Wii U is running!

Seriously, I balked at a $60 price tag on the DualShock 4, but Nintendo wants $150 for a gamepad?!? a hundred and fifty bucks for a single controller! I'm sorry, but if this thing turns out to be ten times greater than any controller ever released, I could never justify charging $150 for the thing. When a controller costs half as much as your console does brand new, there is no longer A problem, but rather there are SEVERAL problems. That would be like saying Xbox One and PS4 controllers could justify a $200 price tag. No way am I dropping triple digit cash on a controller, man.

Now I understand that the gamepad is essentially a tablet, and that's the reason it costs so much (gotta cover manufacturing costs and turn a profit), but did this never cross Nintendo's execs minds when designing this thing? I don't care if the controller can store my entire music library and control every system I own, $150 for a single controller is simply not economically feasible for the average gamer. Maybe these prices are another reason the system struggles. I remember Adleman saying that the gamepad was a nice idea but it was never utilized and useful enough to justify how much higher it made the system's retail price. Now I understand why he said that, as the system would theoretically cost $200 brand new had they used a regular controller like the pro controller instead of the gamepad. That's $100 cheaper. I can't honestly say that I would have bought a PS4 if I knew a second controller would have cost $150, and we all know about my possibly unhealthy obsession with PlayStation products.


Now for the question
I know the pro controller is one third of the price of a gamepad (but I didn't want the pro controller...), but how many games actually use it? I know there seems to be a need for several controllers if you plan on accumulating much of a Wii U game library, and that already nearly scared me away from it (then the storage space...and now the controller. It's like they WANT me to avoid them. jk). But what I want to know is can I play most two player games with a gamepad AND pro controller? Because if not...I am never buying a Wii U unless I snag a second gamepad for $50 on some insane sale. I don't want a system that I'll need to spend $250 on three controllers just so I can play the extremely small collection of games I'll be getting for this thing.

Thanks for your time, and double thanks if you actually read the whole thing.
Before reading this, be warned: I rant a lot. If you will be offended by this, please don't read as I would hate to offend.

Next, I don't need anyone defending or explaining the pricing: I am not attacking Nintendo (no matter how it may sound), and I understand the economics here.

Finally, the actual question is at the end in bold text so feel free to skip the rant and read the question if you'd rather avoid the ranting about your preferred console and company. I do respect Nintendo, but...wow.
___________

So after talking to some friends about a few things, I had decided to go ahead and buy a Wii U simply because I want some Mario games and I don't want a 2/3DS (yes, I changed my mind on that...again...again).

So I swing by Amazon to check out Wii U deals. And then my head begins to hurt.

First off the 8GB Wii U (8GB on a system released in 2013? Whose idea was that?) turns out to only have 3GB of storage space. Now I understand that everyone tells you how much overall space is on their hard drives rather than how much usable space is on them (which is a deceitful practice that I despise, despite it being the norm), but 3GB isn't even enough to power the digital version of one of the Wii U's launch titles, and as we all know, later titles in a system's life tend to be much bigger than launch titles. Definitely not Nintendo's shining moment of genius.

But I got past this quickly as I don't plan to download anything at all on it, ever.

But then the big problem... I need a second controller, but the thing costs almost exactly what a used Wii U is running!

Seriously, I balked at a $60 price tag on the DualShock 4, but Nintendo wants $150 for a gamepad?!? a hundred and fifty bucks for a single controller! I'm sorry, but if this thing turns out to be ten times greater than any controller ever released, I could never justify charging $150 for the thing. When a controller costs half as much as your console does brand new, there is no longer A problem, but rather there are SEVERAL problems. That would be like saying Xbox One and PS4 controllers could justify a $200 price tag. No way am I dropping triple digit cash on a controller, man.

Now I understand that the gamepad is essentially a tablet, and that's the reason it costs so much (gotta cover manufacturing costs and turn a profit), but did this never cross Nintendo's execs minds when designing this thing? I don't care if the controller can store my entire music library and control every system I own, $150 for a single controller is simply not economically feasible for the average gamer. Maybe these prices are another reason the system struggles. I remember Adleman saying that the gamepad was a nice idea but it was never utilized and useful enough to justify how much higher it made the system's retail price. Now I understand why he said that, as the system would theoretically cost $200 brand new had they used a regular controller like the pro controller instead of the gamepad. That's $100 cheaper. I can't honestly say that I would have bought a PS4 if I knew a second controller would have cost $150, and we all know about my possibly unhealthy obsession with PlayStation products.


Now for the question
I know the pro controller is one third of the price of a gamepad (but I didn't want the pro controller...), but how many games actually use it? I know there seems to be a need for several controllers if you plan on accumulating much of a Wii U game library, and that already nearly scared me away from it (then the storage space...and now the controller. It's like they WANT me to avoid them. jk). But what I want to know is can I play most two player games with a gamepad AND pro controller? Because if not...I am never buying a Wii U unless I snag a second gamepad for $50 on some insane sale. I don't want a system that I'll need to spend $250 on three controllers just so I can play the extremely small collection of games I'll be getting for this thing.

Thanks for your time, and double thanks if you actually read the whole thing.
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10-11-15 06:52 AM
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I feel your frustration there. The Gamepad is about half the price of the system!! In a few games (only two that I can think of) you can use just two normal controllers. I had no idea about the memory thing though. I downloaded some games!!! D:

Let's just hope there's some kind of way Nintendo can salvage all of this. Releasing the NX too soon is going to hurt them just as bad as the Wii U has. Plus if they released it, people are going to expect games for it. So knowing Nintendo you'll just need to wait for three years before actually buying the NX. And Sakurai might have his head explode if he has to work on another Smash Bros game. But anyway, there's no good solution to any of this. But on the bright side, the Pro Controller from what I hear, if just the Gamepad minus holding half the console.
I feel your frustration there. The Gamepad is about half the price of the system!! In a few games (only two that I can think of) you can use just two normal controllers. I had no idea about the memory thing though. I downloaded some games!!! D:

Let's just hope there's some kind of way Nintendo can salvage all of this. Releasing the NX too soon is going to hurt them just as bad as the Wii U has. Plus if they released it, people are going to expect games for it. So knowing Nintendo you'll just need to wait for three years before actually buying the NX. And Sakurai might have his head explode if he has to work on another Smash Bros game. But anyway, there's no good solution to any of this. But on the bright side, the Pro Controller from what I hear, if just the Gamepad minus holding half the console.
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10-11-15 07:12 AM
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Dude, that's what they do with everything, just look at a Pokemon game. You have slightly outdated, 5+ year old games that have been used who knows how many times and they are selling them for the same price or a very slight drop from the price when it came out. Heck some of the games went up in price since then by almost 25 percent. They have a long history of overcharging for everything.
Dude, that's what they do with everything, just look at a Pokemon game. You have slightly outdated, 5+ year old games that have been used who knows how many times and they are selling them for the same price or a very slight drop from the price when it came out. Heck some of the games went up in price since then by almost 25 percent. They have a long history of overcharging for everything.
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10-11-15 10:34 AM
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Nintendo, I like  you guys, but this mutiple controller stuff is getting annoying!


Seriously. Why can't they just make a  standard controller like Microsoft and Sony did?


The Price on the gamepad isn't worth it imo. 1) The battery life is terrible on that thing. 2) Some games don't even need it, you can use a wii mote for much cheaper.


Seriously I'm growing tired of this gimmick. 

Why do you need to have  mutiple controllers laying around just to play games?  You need wii motes for this game, you need a classic controller for that game, you need a wii u pro controller for this game.

This reason alone I prefer to stay away from any nintendo system.
Nintendo, I like  you guys, but this mutiple controller stuff is getting annoying!


Seriously. Why can't they just make a  standard controller like Microsoft and Sony did?


The Price on the gamepad isn't worth it imo. 1) The battery life is terrible on that thing. 2) Some games don't even need it, you can use a wii mote for much cheaper.


Seriously I'm growing tired of this gimmick. 

Why do you need to have  mutiple controllers laying around just to play games?  You need wii motes for this game, you need a classic controller for that game, you need a wii u pro controller for this game.

This reason alone I prefer to stay away from any nintendo system.
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10-11-15 12:24 PM
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A user of this : Thankfully the used Wii U I'm looking at comes with one gamepad and totals $220. My big question though is do most games that allow the pro controller also allow the gamepad or vice versa? I know the first one I'm looking at allows it (New Super Mario/Luigi U combo). But most of my use for the system will be for multiplayer.

As for NX, let's hope they learned from the Wii U. Give me 500GB maybe, and a single controller that costs less than $150 (never thought I would say that about a controller. lol). Unfortunately if the controller is where the games are stored, we're going to be lucky to land a $150 price tag on a controller as it's essentially the actual console. xD


zanderlex : Yeah, that's true. :/ Their systems are typically cheaper but with lower specs, that explains it. In the end we're probably looking at a higher price tag per part/GB/whatever than their competitors. And Dan Adelman actually praised them for this next part, but they just don't reduce the price of games when they get old like everyone else.

SuperCrash64 : Well that makes me even more apprehensive about buying a Wii U. :/ Yes, the need for multiple controllers was a trend I was all too happy that the industry grew out of after the sixteen bit era. Then the Wii ushered that back in. Is this because they think it's better, or because they think they need the extra cash from consumers I wonder?
A user of this : Thankfully the used Wii U I'm looking at comes with one gamepad and totals $220. My big question though is do most games that allow the pro controller also allow the gamepad or vice versa? I know the first one I'm looking at allows it (New Super Mario/Luigi U combo). But most of my use for the system will be for multiplayer.

As for NX, let's hope they learned from the Wii U. Give me 500GB maybe, and a single controller that costs less than $150 (never thought I would say that about a controller. lol). Unfortunately if the controller is where the games are stored, we're going to be lucky to land a $150 price tag on a controller as it's essentially the actual console. xD


zanderlex : Yeah, that's true. :/ Their systems are typically cheaper but with lower specs, that explains it. In the end we're probably looking at a higher price tag per part/GB/whatever than their competitors. And Dan Adelman actually praised them for this next part, but they just don't reduce the price of games when they get old like everyone else.

SuperCrash64 : Well that makes me even more apprehensive about buying a Wii U. :/ Yes, the need for multiple controllers was a trend I was all too happy that the industry grew out of after the sixteen bit era. Then the Wii ushered that back in. Is this because they think it's better, or because they think they need the extra cash from consumers I wonder?
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10-11-15 01:25 PM
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Eirinn : I'd have to assume it'd be money. They did this stuff during the very first Nintendo WII console.

The last system that they had with 1 controller being required was the game cube.

Microsoft and Sony's 8th Gen systems have a standard controller to use as well.

I personally don't care for the motion controls gimmick,  Why do I have to bounce around looking like a fool to play a game, when other consoles just let me sit on the couch and be comfortable with playing the game?

In regards to that, I do respect the WII for actually having good motion control games unlike the Kinect or Move.

But That doesn't mean I should have to use multiple controllers just to play every game on the system. That feels like a cheap way to increase overall console cost, and in terms probably makes the WII u maybe a more expensive system than the xbox 1 or ps4.
Eirinn : I'd have to assume it'd be money. They did this stuff during the very first Nintendo WII console.

The last system that they had with 1 controller being required was the game cube.

Microsoft and Sony's 8th Gen systems have a standard controller to use as well.

I personally don't care for the motion controls gimmick,  Why do I have to bounce around looking like a fool to play a game, when other consoles just let me sit on the couch and be comfortable with playing the game?

In regards to that, I do respect the WII for actually having good motion control games unlike the Kinect or Move.

But That doesn't mean I should have to use multiple controllers just to play every game on the system. That feels like a cheap way to increase overall console cost, and in terms probably makes the WII u maybe a more expensive system than the xbox 1 or ps4.
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10-11-15 05:10 PM
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Eirinn :

I'll give you a double you're welcome because I read the whole thing, lol.

Anyways, wow. I never knew that the controller costed 150$. I mean, like you said, I get that it's essentially a tablet-esque controller, but how did this make it past the prototype stage. Surely someone at Nintendo thought that it wouldn't do well simply for the price alone - it's not like we are currently in a golden age where we can afford to drop half the price of a console for a controller. Maybe in when it was still in development they honestly thought the Wii U would be solid enough to justify the purchase price asked, or maybe (this is my speculation) they thought that the price would be overpriced intentionally. Why?

Well, if a gamer knows that the controller is half the price of the system that comes with the controller anyways, the gamer might actually be obliged to buy another console for whoever they live with instead. It's no secret that today in gaming, more and more companies are trying to push split-screen activities out the door in favor for a more online approach. This works to value both the console developer and the game developers because the consumer is then forced to buy two copies of a video game if they want to play with, say, their sibling or significant other.

It drives me nuts seeing how far these companies are willing to go to nickle and dime the consumer - Nintendo is no saint in this respect. Their classic games are overpriced (I don't justify $10+ dollars for any game over 10 years old, I don't care how great that game is), their controller is no doubt way above what an average controller costs, and they really don't spend much to make new features in games as is. Let's be honest, we don't see that many changes in Nintendo exclusives - which might be a good thing to some people - but at the end of the day Nintendo makes mad profit off of spending less and making more. Don't get me started on Nintendo's "partnership program" on YouTube where they basically rob Youtubers of the minuscule revenue they already make for what is essentially free advertising for their own game. They're lucky Amiibos are popular, because basically they're just overpriced DLC. At least you get something physical for it, I guess.

I can go on for hours about why I think Nintendo has some shady practices, but I'll move on. About what you said on the 8GB system (Which is realistically probably going to be even less than 3GB due to system updates and so on), that's just ridiculous. You can white knight it all day and pretend that you want to make an affordable option for the consumer, but in reality your screwing them over because they think they're getting a good deal when they're not. For instance, a parent buys their kid one for Christmas. The parent sees only the price tag and may have no idea what "8GB" really is. Then Christmas comes around, and the kid can't even play a game bought digitally - or can't even update a game - because it would run out of space virtually instantly.

The 8GB system is a huge mistake - and I'd dare to say that it was intentionally done so that the consumer would be forced to buy a higher tier Wii U at a later date. Of course that's speculative, but I digress. My PS4 has 500GB, and I find that to be too small because I can't fit more than 8 or so games on it due to the constant updates. That's just to throw in a comparison - and I'm sure Xbox fans can agree that 500GB isn't really a lot when you really look at it.

I'm just not sure why Nintendo couldn't do something like Microsoft and Sony. Both companies managed to change their controllers without making them expensive - actually I can find PS4 controllers cheaper than PS3 controllers at Best Buy (No idea why, but I got two extras for 50 bucks - in comparison to PS3's for 55 bucks). PS4 added the touch pad, Xbox One added the rumbles all around (which I wish playstation had, I actually really liked it), and then Nintendo basically went full blown crazy and added an entire screen to a needlessly huge controller.

I could go on for days, but this is basically something that I'd venture to believe is at the core of why the Wii U isn't keeping up with Sony and Microsoft in the west.
Eirinn :

I'll give you a double you're welcome because I read the whole thing, lol.

Anyways, wow. I never knew that the controller costed 150$. I mean, like you said, I get that it's essentially a tablet-esque controller, but how did this make it past the prototype stage. Surely someone at Nintendo thought that it wouldn't do well simply for the price alone - it's not like we are currently in a golden age where we can afford to drop half the price of a console for a controller. Maybe in when it was still in development they honestly thought the Wii U would be solid enough to justify the purchase price asked, or maybe (this is my speculation) they thought that the price would be overpriced intentionally. Why?

Well, if a gamer knows that the controller is half the price of the system that comes with the controller anyways, the gamer might actually be obliged to buy another console for whoever they live with instead. It's no secret that today in gaming, more and more companies are trying to push split-screen activities out the door in favor for a more online approach. This works to value both the console developer and the game developers because the consumer is then forced to buy two copies of a video game if they want to play with, say, their sibling or significant other.

It drives me nuts seeing how far these companies are willing to go to nickle and dime the consumer - Nintendo is no saint in this respect. Their classic games are overpriced (I don't justify $10+ dollars for any game over 10 years old, I don't care how great that game is), their controller is no doubt way above what an average controller costs, and they really don't spend much to make new features in games as is. Let's be honest, we don't see that many changes in Nintendo exclusives - which might be a good thing to some people - but at the end of the day Nintendo makes mad profit off of spending less and making more. Don't get me started on Nintendo's "partnership program" on YouTube where they basically rob Youtubers of the minuscule revenue they already make for what is essentially free advertising for their own game. They're lucky Amiibos are popular, because basically they're just overpriced DLC. At least you get something physical for it, I guess.

I can go on for hours about why I think Nintendo has some shady practices, but I'll move on. About what you said on the 8GB system (Which is realistically probably going to be even less than 3GB due to system updates and so on), that's just ridiculous. You can white knight it all day and pretend that you want to make an affordable option for the consumer, but in reality your screwing them over because they think they're getting a good deal when they're not. For instance, a parent buys their kid one for Christmas. The parent sees only the price tag and may have no idea what "8GB" really is. Then Christmas comes around, and the kid can't even play a game bought digitally - or can't even update a game - because it would run out of space virtually instantly.

The 8GB system is a huge mistake - and I'd dare to say that it was intentionally done so that the consumer would be forced to buy a higher tier Wii U at a later date. Of course that's speculative, but I digress. My PS4 has 500GB, and I find that to be too small because I can't fit more than 8 or so games on it due to the constant updates. That's just to throw in a comparison - and I'm sure Xbox fans can agree that 500GB isn't really a lot when you really look at it.

I'm just not sure why Nintendo couldn't do something like Microsoft and Sony. Both companies managed to change their controllers without making them expensive - actually I can find PS4 controllers cheaper than PS3 controllers at Best Buy (No idea why, but I got two extras for 50 bucks - in comparison to PS3's for 55 bucks). PS4 added the touch pad, Xbox One added the rumbles all around (which I wish playstation had, I actually really liked it), and then Nintendo basically went full blown crazy and added an entire screen to a needlessly huge controller.

I could go on for days, but this is basically something that I'd venture to believe is at the core of why the Wii U isn't keeping up with Sony and Microsoft in the west.
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10-11-15 06:35 PM
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Dude, the gamepad comes with the system if you buy it new, so there's no need to pay that much money for a gamepad in the first place. I've had my Wii U since the launch and it's still working perfectly for me. As far as the pro controller goes, yeah I agree that it's overpriced. Still, I bought it because I knew it would fit more comfortably in my hands.
Dude, the gamepad comes with the system if you buy it new, so there's no need to pay that much money for a gamepad in the first place. I've had my Wii U since the launch and it's still working perfectly for me. As far as the pro controller goes, yeah I agree that it's overpriced. Still, I bought it because I knew it would fit more comfortably in my hands.
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10-11-15 10:28 PM
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SuperCrash64 : I'm thinking the same, honestly. This is the kind of stuff that can send a healthy company the way of Sega consoles. Similar mistakes, man. I'm seeing a pattern...
Also "why do I have to bounce around looking like a fool to play a game?" xD Priceless.


Skilledtree : I agree on every point. 8GB (and roughly 3 usable before updates) should have been shot down from the start. No, 500GB isn't even enough really, much less 3-8. What AAA developer can make their games fit on that even if the system takes off? PS4's launch title used over 37GB, and it wasn't even using realistic graphics. And the new Lego Batman game takes 10GB, and these are PHYSICAL games!

And that controller...you know I have actually grown to think the controller is a decent idea, but if it costs that much to manufacture, there's no justifying it, I don't care what it does.



gamerforlifeforever2 : I think you missed why it was a problem for me, and possibly even the point to the thread: it isn't to bash Nintendo, it's to ask a question of Wii U owners.

The used Wii U I'm looking at comes with a gamepad (I won't buy a system that doesn't have everything it needs), but if I buy this system it'll be almost exclusively for multiplayer. I will thus need a second controller. Now my question here is for Wii U owners like yourself: if I get this thing, will most local multiplayer games allow me to play with one player using a gamepad and one using a pro controller? Can two gamepads even be used at the same time? The pro controller is reasonably priced for a modern controller, so I can stomach paying $50 for it if need be, but I can't pay $150 on a second gamepad. I only looked into buying a Wii U because used ones are budget friendly as far as systems are concerned, so paying that much for a controller ruins the entire point for me.
SuperCrash64 : I'm thinking the same, honestly. This is the kind of stuff that can send a healthy company the way of Sega consoles. Similar mistakes, man. I'm seeing a pattern...
Also "why do I have to bounce around looking like a fool to play a game?" xD Priceless.


Skilledtree : I agree on every point. 8GB (and roughly 3 usable before updates) should have been shot down from the start. No, 500GB isn't even enough really, much less 3-8. What AAA developer can make their games fit on that even if the system takes off? PS4's launch title used over 37GB, and it wasn't even using realistic graphics. And the new Lego Batman game takes 10GB, and these are PHYSICAL games!

And that controller...you know I have actually grown to think the controller is a decent idea, but if it costs that much to manufacture, there's no justifying it, I don't care what it does.



gamerforlifeforever2 : I think you missed why it was a problem for me, and possibly even the point to the thread: it isn't to bash Nintendo, it's to ask a question of Wii U owners.

The used Wii U I'm looking at comes with a gamepad (I won't buy a system that doesn't have everything it needs), but if I buy this system it'll be almost exclusively for multiplayer. I will thus need a second controller. Now my question here is for Wii U owners like yourself: if I get this thing, will most local multiplayer games allow me to play with one player using a gamepad and one using a pro controller? Can two gamepads even be used at the same time? The pro controller is reasonably priced for a modern controller, so I can stomach paying $50 for it if need be, but I can't pay $150 on a second gamepad. I only looked into buying a Wii U because used ones are budget friendly as far as systems are concerned, so paying that much for a controller ruins the entire point for me.
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10-11-15 11:00 PM
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I'm not really surprised that the gamepad costs that much considering what it is. I mean even the cheapest tablet costs a hundred bucks or so. Considering a PS4 controller costs 60$ and and Microsoft is charging 150$ for their "Elite" controller, I feel like the pricing is about right.

Also, although I don't currently own a Wii U (been waiting for the Zelda game to come out) I do know that you can use Wii controllers for the 2nd player and that both players don't necessarily need the tablet controller. Although I do understand the desire to purchase one.

As far as the storage goes, considering the 32gig Deluxe Set costs about 280$ online brand new and also comes with a game, I figure it's a decent enough deal. Especially since most of their games aren't going to be stored on your system and will be disk based. That should be enough storage. If it's not, you can do what you can with most of the other systems, and use external USB storage.
I'm not really surprised that the gamepad costs that much considering what it is. I mean even the cheapest tablet costs a hundred bucks or so. Considering a PS4 controller costs 60$ and and Microsoft is charging 150$ for their "Elite" controller, I feel like the pricing is about right.

Also, although I don't currently own a Wii U (been waiting for the Zelda game to come out) I do know that you can use Wii controllers for the 2nd player and that both players don't necessarily need the tablet controller. Although I do understand the desire to purchase one.

As far as the storage goes, considering the 32gig Deluxe Set costs about 280$ online brand new and also comes with a game, I figure it's a decent enough deal. Especially since most of their games aren't going to be stored on your system and will be disk based. That should be enough storage. If it's not, you can do what you can with most of the other systems, and use external USB storage.
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(edited by Jordanv78 on 10-11-15 11:01 PM)    

10-11-15 11:57 PM
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Jordanv78 :

I see what you're saying about the controller. I think it just comes down to the question of how no one saw the overpriced debate ever coming. I think the primary audience of Nintendo has always been the younger generation. This generation it's like they had no idea which direction they were going in a sense, and released and awkwardly in between product. They really should have thought about it financially in my opinion.

As for the Xbox Elite controller, I mean yeah it's 150 bucks - but it's for the pro gaming community primarily. The pros really use Scuf controllers, which surpass the $200 dollar mark, but it's still aimed at people who take gaming extra serious - and isn't required to play any games at all. I think that's the big difference, it's an option, it's not the be all end all.

Yeah, you're right about just getting an external for your the more demanding gamers, but I think that when an iPhone offers more storage than a gaming console - there's a problem. Even if the discs don't install, we got to think about updates and anything downloaded online. You also couldn't take advantage of Nintendo's E-Shop, because it would have nowhere to go.

I know you're not particularly defending Nintendo, I'm just explaining my view on it more.
Jordanv78 :

I see what you're saying about the controller. I think it just comes down to the question of how no one saw the overpriced debate ever coming. I think the primary audience of Nintendo has always been the younger generation. This generation it's like they had no idea which direction they were going in a sense, and released and awkwardly in between product. They really should have thought about it financially in my opinion.

As for the Xbox Elite controller, I mean yeah it's 150 bucks - but it's for the pro gaming community primarily. The pros really use Scuf controllers, which surpass the $200 dollar mark, but it's still aimed at people who take gaming extra serious - and isn't required to play any games at all. I think that's the big difference, it's an option, it's not the be all end all.

Yeah, you're right about just getting an external for your the more demanding gamers, but I think that when an iPhone offers more storage than a gaming console - there's a problem. Even if the discs don't install, we got to think about updates and anything downloaded online. You also couldn't take advantage of Nintendo's E-Shop, because it would have nowhere to go.

I know you're not particularly defending Nintendo, I'm just explaining my view on it more.
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10-12-15 01:49 AM
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Jordanv78 : So the physical games don't install on the Wii U like PS3/4/Vita? That's a relief. As I said I won't be downloading anything on it probably. I will only use the thing for the occasional first party IP (namely Mario and Luigi games).

And I think I failed to stress enough that I really do understand why the controller costs what it does (though unless it has storage space like the average tablet and can surf internet, download, etc. it could still be cheaper). I'm not really questioning the gamepad's price point, I'm asking what were they thinking when they made it? I mean, they had to know when designing this controller that it would make the price astronomical as controllers go. So no matter how amazing it may be, how did they not anticipate the cost of a new gamepad affecting their sales? Nor the fact that it (again, in theory) boosting their new console price by $100 would decrease sales?

Regardless, I would gladly pay for the system if I knew I would get my money's worth out of it. I mean I fully expect to get a lot of enjoyment out of the Wii U, but I'm also considering it as much for multiplayer as I am for myself to enjoy personally (more so, actually), and with the gamepad costing this much, my purchase mostly comes down to whether I'll be able to mix and match the gamepad and pro controller for most first party IP games with multiplayer. As I said, I know New Super Mario U and Super Luigi U allow this, but what about the other games? I just don't want to end up with a system that I'll rarely use for anything.

Also, I can't stand the Wii remote, so that's out of the question. Pretty much the pro controller and gamepad are all I'd want. And I only want the pro because it's 1/3 the price. So again, if you know if most multiplayer games accept both controllers (without downloading patches) that would be a huge help in making my decision.
Jordanv78 : So the physical games don't install on the Wii U like PS3/4/Vita? That's a relief. As I said I won't be downloading anything on it probably. I will only use the thing for the occasional first party IP (namely Mario and Luigi games).

And I think I failed to stress enough that I really do understand why the controller costs what it does (though unless it has storage space like the average tablet and can surf internet, download, etc. it could still be cheaper). I'm not really questioning the gamepad's price point, I'm asking what were they thinking when they made it? I mean, they had to know when designing this controller that it would make the price astronomical as controllers go. So no matter how amazing it may be, how did they not anticipate the cost of a new gamepad affecting their sales? Nor the fact that it (again, in theory) boosting their new console price by $100 would decrease sales?

Regardless, I would gladly pay for the system if I knew I would get my money's worth out of it. I mean I fully expect to get a lot of enjoyment out of the Wii U, but I'm also considering it as much for multiplayer as I am for myself to enjoy personally (more so, actually), and with the gamepad costing this much, my purchase mostly comes down to whether I'll be able to mix and match the gamepad and pro controller for most first party IP games with multiplayer. As I said, I know New Super Mario U and Super Luigi U allow this, but what about the other games? I just don't want to end up with a system that I'll rarely use for anything.

Also, I can't stand the Wii remote, so that's out of the question. Pretty much the pro controller and gamepad are all I'd want. And I only want the pro because it's 1/3 the price. So again, if you know if most multiplayer games accept both controllers (without downloading patches) that would be a huge help in making my decision.
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Eirinn : Don't get me wrong, I do understand your point regarding the controllers and not really being in the spirit of what Nintendo usually does with regards to trying to keep the price point down on their systems. I think that's why they kinda did the somewhat strange thing of letting the other users play using the older Wiimotes. I think from their perspective they saw how popular tablet gaming was becoming and tried to tie that into their system. Hopefully they can find new and unique ways to incorporate it's functionality in it's games.
Originally I thought it was pretty awesome that you could play on the controller without having to use a TV.

Skilledtree : I also understand the storage comments. The point I was getting at is this. Nintendo has a long history of appealing to families and gamers of all types. The way they usually market their systems in conjunction of this idea (Over the past couple generations anyways) is to keep the price point of their systems down. The easiest way to do this in most hardware scenarios is to keep the storage and ram down. Those are usually among the most expensive areas of any hardware.

Since the only thing you would really be installing on the Wii U is stuff you buy from the Eshop, the 32 gigs that the Deluxe set has should be more than enough.

As far as the Iphone statement goes, an Iphone outside of a cell phone contract costs a Ton. Way more than any console would. Heck nowadays with the installments that many of the carriers are making you do now, you are paying 400-600$ for most of the top end cell phones.

As far as the "elite" controllers go, it's the same argument as the Wii U tablet. The Wii u is set up to allow users to use the wiimotes to play the other players. So outside of player 1, you don't HAVE to have the tablet controller. Just like users don't necessarily "have" to have the Elite controller. It's all in your personal preference.
Eirinn : Don't get me wrong, I do understand your point regarding the controllers and not really being in the spirit of what Nintendo usually does with regards to trying to keep the price point down on their systems. I think that's why they kinda did the somewhat strange thing of letting the other users play using the older Wiimotes. I think from their perspective they saw how popular tablet gaming was becoming and tried to tie that into their system. Hopefully they can find new and unique ways to incorporate it's functionality in it's games.
Originally I thought it was pretty awesome that you could play on the controller without having to use a TV.

Skilledtree : I also understand the storage comments. The point I was getting at is this. Nintendo has a long history of appealing to families and gamers of all types. The way they usually market their systems in conjunction of this idea (Over the past couple generations anyways) is to keep the price point of their systems down. The easiest way to do this in most hardware scenarios is to keep the storage and ram down. Those are usually among the most expensive areas of any hardware.

Since the only thing you would really be installing on the Wii U is stuff you buy from the Eshop, the 32 gigs that the Deluxe set has should be more than enough.

As far as the Iphone statement goes, an Iphone outside of a cell phone contract costs a Ton. Way more than any console would. Heck nowadays with the installments that many of the carriers are making you do now, you are paying 400-600$ for most of the top end cell phones.

As far as the "elite" controllers go, it's the same argument as the Wii U tablet. The Wii u is set up to allow users to use the wiimotes to play the other players. So outside of player 1, you don't HAVE to have the tablet controller. Just like users don't necessarily "have" to have the Elite controller. It's all in your personal preference.
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I think you raise some very valid questions, and while I don't have answers, it proves one very true thing: the Wii U is in big trouble.
I think you raise some very valid questions, and while I don't have answers, it proves one very true thing: the Wii U is in big trouble.
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