So, I got to thinking about something today, and that is " Are women sexist when it comes to dating? " I use sexist lightly, as I am not sure if that is the best word here, but it's what I am going with, so bare with me. 

So, I use a few dating apps, because believe it or not, I am actually shy when it comes to approaching women in public, as bold and cocky as I am with my friends and family and on the internet. 

For the sake of argument, making a point, and this thread, I'll use a recent experience that has happened all too often on a certain app to get this debate started: Tinder. 

Now, the way Tinder works is you either swipe one way to say that you like somebody, or swipe the other way to say that you don't. All you really have to go on is a picture of them. If you tap their picture instead of immediately swiping right or left, you can see what, if any, Facebook pages you both have liked. 

Now, every time I am " matched " with somebody, I never get messaged first. Maybe once in the... 20 or so women I have been matched with, and that was a bot. I always have to send a message first when it comes to that. Which makes it seem like women are expecting me to always make the first move. 

Then there are actual dates. ( going off of the Tinder examples now ) I don't have to say anything. I automatically know I am expected to pay. Usually, the way that works is if you ask the other person on a date, you are expected to pay. Well, I've had a few women actually ask me out on a date, and they still expected me to pay. Which, I don't really have too much of a problem with, but why am I always expected to pay the bill, even if they are the one to ask me out on a date? 



It seems to me that women expect that man to do all the hard work, or take care of everything, or even pay for everything, regardless of who is getting whatever is in question, or prompted the reason for spending money in the relationship, for lack of a better way of putting it. 
Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't this make women sexist when it comes to dating? 

In regards to Tinder experiences, I feel like women there know that if you're resorting to Tinder, then you'll be desperate enough to pay the bill on a date. It's a free meal, if nothing else.

At least, that's how I'd view it.

mrfe : I brought up the Tinder thing to show that women always expect the man to make the first move. If a woman likes a guy, how often does she come up to him and say no? Not very often compared to guys going up to women and asking them out. That's the point I was trying to make with that. 

thing1 :

You're right, in a sense. A woman cannot say "Treat me equally!" and "I want special privileges!". It's obviously contradictory and it is why feminism is often made into a joke.

But you're actually doing the same thing. You want to take a girl on a date, which says "You're special to me", yet you don't want to treat her as special. If you want a date with a girl, it's because you think she's special. You have to treat her as such.

mrfe :

You are 100% right. In my own dating experiences, I have found the following:

With dating apps/sites in particular, the woman will ALWAYS expect you to approach them, and ALWAYS expect you to pay for dinner. From the perspective of the woman, it "is" about desperation. If you have to resort to going online, you are seen as an easy target, and they have you where they want you.

When it comes to reality, and making that connection in person, so long as you don't go guns blazing looking for love (the best love blooms naturally, by being friends with someone first), you'll find women more likely to not only pay the bill, but make the first move.

When me and my girlfriend go out, we split the bills, more or less. It's always been like that, from the first date to our most recent one.

thing1 :

"I brought up the Tinder thing to show that women always expect the man to make the first move."

This is wrong. While there are women who do (not worth your time), many women buck the trend and make the first move themselves... so long as they are interested in you. That's the key word, interested. If they aren't interested in you, they won't make the first move. If they want you to pay for their meal, and nothing more, then they will let you contact them, because you are bargaining from a position of weakness. "I don't need you, you need me." is the mentality many online daters seem to have, and it gives the form of dating a bad name. It's almost like food based prostitution.

"If a woman likes a guy, how often does she come up to him and say no?"

Quite often in my experience. A lot of women have come up to me and spoke to me of their interest, and I know I'm nothing particularly special. I figure it is this way for most normal people.

Maybe your mindset is biased, because you are LOOKING for love, instead of letting it come naturally.

Here's the thing: it's culture.

Traditionally, men have been the ones to "make the move" in romantic situations. Usually a woman will expect a man to ask about dating, to ask to dance, to pay for the meal... it's just our tradition. Same as it's tradition for a woman to wear a white dress with getting married, for example. Now it's NOT the same as simply wearing a dress because it does change how one is treated, but it's part of the culture and tradition none-the-less.

More and more woman are trying not to fit in that mold, and want dating to be more "even", and many would say that equality demands in. Other prefer the more traditional way of doing it.

Basically, if YOU like the more traditional romantic way of doing things (paying for meals, making the first moves, asking to dance, doing the driving using your car, lighting her cigarette, etc), then you'll match well with a girl who is the same. If you DON'T like that traditional romance and think it's sexist, like many do, then you should find one of those many girls who think the same way.

Perhaps I'm not the best person to answer this, as I am not interested in dating or having a relationship, but I am a woman, so I might be able to offer a bit of different perspective? Just to give you something to think about.

Yes, some women are 'sexist' when it comes to dating, but really, no more than some men. It's about even ground there.

As for dating websites...most women who use them feel they have exhausted all other options, however, they are usually equally afraid and anticipatory of who may answer their match-ups. This is not from personal experience, I'm going from accounts told to me by friends who have used dating websites. 
You never know what kind of person you're going to be 'matched' with. Some guys are legit and looking for a date and/or someone to get to know better, because hey, it might work out...but some guys are looking for -- for lack of a better term -- "Prey". A night of sex whether or not a woman says no, just as an example. (And in no way am I saying all guys are like this. Just some, just as some women are equally predatory and this is NOT COOL on either side, okay?)

So, understandably, women who are legit looking for a possible companion are nervous. That's one reason many women wait and let the man answer things first on sites like Tinder. It's to give themselves a chance to gauge just how the man answers them, whether he's cocky or rude or if he is calm or polite, again, for examples. Many times you can tell how people are going to be in real life from how they message you online. 

If the message seems like a sincere one, they'll respond and see how it goes from there. Sometimes it winds up being good, and as they get more comfortable with the guy, they'll open up. That first date (if they make it even THAT far) is spent on edge, gauging reactions, being wary of what might happen, and a woman generally spends the entire time judging her own words to make sure she doesn't say anything that could INADVERTENTLY make things go from "maybe this is okay" to "he's crazy and I'm afraid". 

If the first date goes well and she doesn't get overwhelmed by texts and/or calls asking about the next one -- because that right there is a giant stalker-in-the-making sign -- she may go out with the same guy again and loosen up  some, become more of herself and less stiff and 'expectant'. That's when you may see that she offers to pay for dinner or lunch or what have you.

Just remember that the first date is a wariness-filled waiting game, almost invariably, and you might stand a better chance? 

Light Knight : Oh, I am one of the most traditional guys out there. I have been broken up with by multiple guys for being too nice, or not yelling at her enough, or weird stuff like that, no lie. 

I don't mind making the first move in person, that's not a problem. I'm just saying that if it from online, the woman always expects the man to make the first move, which I think is wrong, especially when women say all this stuff about equality and what not. 


legacyme3 : That's the problem with most women these days... they say they want a good man a nice relationship.. when in turn all they doing are trying to find a meal ticket for the night. 

thing1 :

I think you misread my post.

Most women aren't an issue. It's a small subculture of them that stick to a niche gathering spot.

I have dated many women, and the best ones are the ones I didn't meet on social networking sites.

legacyme3 : That's the problem: I don't know where to go to meet women. And even if I did, I'd be too shy to approach them in public. 

And somehow, I always get somebody from that group that you mentioned. 

thing1 :

That sounds like a personal problem.

I'm shy too, but I grew a backbone.

I think the word (words?) you're looking for is "Double Standards"

Even still, it's mostly the culture. We've been raised to think "Men do this, women do this, etc.." which is a quite dumb, honestly.

But it's not the case with everyone. I've seen some girls go up and ask guys out, and do other things guys are expected to do. Since that's not the majority, though, it isn't talk about as much.

I have never used a dating site, but if I have ever asked a girl out, I have never figured I should pay for anything. If things did not work out, I figured it is more about me being a creepy bastard than being cheap. Oh well, live and learn. Feed em and weep.

But I have gladly paid for stuff if we were actually dating. So maybe it is me who have been sexist, since I pay for dinners after I have had my rooster vacuumed. I don't know...

Since I'm gay my words might sound out-of-place but...

It's not sexism it's both biology and psychology. In a class of the latter I had, the professor broke down mating to its simplest elements: males want to have as many offsprings as possible and as little responsibilities towards them as possible while females want stability in order to have the necessary resources to raise the offsprings - carrying them influences a woman's psyche too.

It seems to be showing in the gay world too. Although things changed thanks to equal rights, many men still seem to be influence by their "instincts" of mating without attachment, especially in large cities (my husband had a very hard time finding love in New York City). On their side - I confess reporting only hearsays - lesbian couples seem to be much more jealous or their partner's whereabouts since they mostly seek stability.

Furthermore, as many pointed out, culture has a lot to do with "roles" in relationships. It seems to be maintained by many woman's magazines, most of which don't seem to advocate for women to do much outside of bed.

thing1 : If the girls you date expect you to pay no matter who does the asking out, you're talking to the wrong women.  There is a massive number of girls who'll either go splits'ys on an activity or they'll cover the cost if they ask you to go out.  I think you're "expecting to pay" and that sets up the dangerous area of women seeing you anticipate covering the cost.  If you come right and say, "Okay, I guess I'll have to get this," of course they're going to say, "Great, thanks!"

Women aren't sexist.  I have had women buy me drinks and talk to me at bars even though I'm married.  They approach me and say, "Let me set you up with another of that."

Women cover my costs when I go out in groups and they're not my wife.  So, the expectation isn't that I'm doing the heavy lifting. with dollars or intellectual conversation.

Also, think of what you're using: Tinder.  The objective of girls on Tinder is to get someone to buy them food and then they bang you.  It's how the game is played.  If you try other avenues, like church groups or socials or volunteerism, you'll find nicer girls who'll extend the courtesy of going Dutch when you go out.

In my experience, what little of it there is, they will try to 'subtly' let you know they like you in public, but will never be the first to ask because nobody knows why women are hard to comprehend.
But being on Tinder kind of sets you up with Gold Diggers and such too, so be careful with that, lol.

Titan127 : That's how I feel most of the time; that most women who actually talk to me are either Gold Diggers or looking for a Baby Daddy.

thing1 : But if you confront them about it, you've lost another prospect. Their double standards bother me. Here to support you though. So good luck!

Titan27: I don't confront them, I just ignore them. 

Heck, I had a date the other night, and it ended up not working out because I finally learned that I am conservative, and she was liberal... and the arguments that we would have if we would have dated would have been epic... LOL NOPE! 

thing1 : Actually my Dad converted my step mom from being a lib, but good choice as they're normally stubborn. *Hi fives* Nice going. I'm sure you'll find a conservative one eventually. I'm surrounded by conservative girls thank god, lol.