I love what you're doing here, and I couldn't agree more. Due to our high intake of media, our view of what a real man is, has become terribly distorted. I look forward to seeing what other things you have to say.

On a side note the opening the door for a lady thing is all but a non-exsistant show of respect. I do it, but I've never seen another man do so. And yes, it does get some wierd reactions.

And finally, I like that you pointed out that, while women should be treated equally, they should also be treated as ladies. Showing chivalry and be sexist are far from the same thing.

Eirinn :

Showing chivalry and being sexist are far from the same thing.

I could not have said better myself.

And

Light Knight :
You are obviously a good man and a gentleman. You should not be so concerned about these very... superfical things.

Eirinn : Very good point Eirinn. I'm glad there are some gentlemen out there. And if there are other subjects that you'd like to bring up, please do so.

Brigand : Thanks for your concern. Do you mean I should not concern myself with other people who might think I'm being exist? If so, I'm glad you understand my point of view.

Now for the next post. I was going to start with something simple like shaving, but seeing as chivalry, especially toward woman, seems to be what is of interest here, let's talk about it.

First of, chivalry is only one small part of being a real gentlemen. Perhaps my favorite definition of a gentlemen is the one penned by Cardinal John Henry in 1854: "He is one who never inflicts pain". He obviously elaborates, but we will cover those topics as time goes on.
Chivalry means "disinterested courage, honour and courteousness". It is old-fashioned, and often sparks conflicts regarding sexism. Why? It embraces the differences between the sexes.

The three guiding principles of chivalry in regards to woman are: Precedence, Provision, and Protection. 


1.   Precedence - Ladies usual come first and are treated with great respect.  For example:

• When introducing someone, a one says "Barb, this is Bob".
  
• Woman are usually served food first, unless of course it would be hard and very inconvenient to do so. A man may raise from his chair when a woman is leaving or arriving to the table. Again, using judgment.
• He holds heavy objects for her, and gives up his seat if there are none available. (sometimes this is uncalled for, such as in a packed subway)
• A man usually walks to the woman's right, unless beside a road. Then the man will always walk between her and the road.
• Holding a door open is to be done to everyone, little girls, old men, body builders, and dentist. But again following precedence, woman first. Unless a heavy door opens OUT (away from you). A considerate man will open the door by walking through first and holding it. If there is no door to be open, woman always walking in first (unless walking across a rope bridge).
  

  2.   Provision - Providing for his woman is a very manly duty. Although many don't fish and hunt to produce food, one will still honour one of the oldest rules of manhood. This does not mean a man must always do the cooking (but symbolically cutting the meat is still left to the man). Other than providing for his family (often now with equal help of the woman of the house), this principle is easily seen when paying for food and drink.

• A man will pay for the woman's bill. This is true mostly of dates.
• If the woman offers to pay for herself three times, the man understands her insistence and yields.
• If money is not something one has a lot of, it is advisable to only pay for woman he fancies. If the man has entered into a long term relationship, as his perhaps hard for funds, the couple may begin splitting bills or taking turns.
• As for wine: the man chooses the wine, and fills her glass every time it is empty and when he fills his own.

  3.  Protection - Even when a female body builder is in the care of a gentleman, it is his responsibility to ensure her safety. Few males (gentlemen or not) would deny this basic instinct.

• A man will ensure a woman's safe return home after an evening out. This is done by either driving her home (if she lives a reasonable distance away) or ensuring she safely hails a cab and is on her way (if the man has no car or the woman leaves so far away, it would seem creepy for him to drive her all that way). He is not obligated to pay for her taxi fair.
• If a lady under a gentleman's care is insulted, offended, or assaulted, he considers it a greater offense than if such insult made against him. He will then ensure he protects his lady's honour at almost all costs.

Notice that many of these points involve a lady in a man's care. What does this mean? Well a "lady" can be practically any female that is of age. This is flexible, for if a 16 year old boy is attempting honour the code of chivalry, a 14 year old girl may be a lady to him. But a 30 year old man would obviously not feel this way.

If on a date, this woman a man is with is always under his care. If he is out with a woman he has no romantic attachment to (relative, close friend), the majority of these rules are still followed within reason. If he fancies a woman, than even if it is not an date, he might still abide by these rules if he wishes to one day court her.

So what do you think? Old fashion or respectable?

Next post: I might continue with how a true James Bond of a man would act sociably, but we will see what people say to this.

Another good entry. I'm glad to see you add to this. I have nothing to disagree with here, and I can't wait to see the next installment. As I said, it's nice to see someone who still believes in these things.

I hold the doors for anyone for a split second to make them aware of it and to give them enough time to hold it themselves. I pay for my friends' foods once in a while when they least expect it. I give my sit to the elderly and children. I try to be nice whenever someone talks to me, unless I'm walking on the streets, then I don't talk to anybody that I don't know, just to be sure of my own safety. I pick up someone's pen on the floor and give it back... etc. If I were a boy I would be a candidate for mr. Gentleman.  
It's nice to see a post/discussion like this, seeing that there's still hope for us girls to see and meet gentlemen like you guys.

Juliet :

Good to know there are also kind and good hearted ladies out there as such yourself, milady. I tip my hat to you. Perhaps you agree then on my words that all there is to it is being a kind and compassionate person with a good heart.

Juliet :

Oh, that is sadly true about using chivalry as a trick to lure girls. But true chivalry and being a gentleman is not about it being a pick up trick. It is about having maners that cost you nothing but will spread good feelings to everyone around you and that is its only reward. But I am very sure a girl can spot these sunday "knights" soon enough. "What do you mean you don't want to come to my place.? I bought you dinner and stuff did I not? Come on..."

And yes. Sometimes just by keeping a door open to somebody who has lots of things to carry or helping a mother with a baby carriage to get on a bus can not only make them happy but you also. The little things.

Eirinn : Thanks for your support. Sorry it took so long to get back.



Brigand : Thanks for your input. It is true, many cultures are becoming what I call "overfeminisized". Where it's hard to show any type of precedence to a woman without her thinking you're being macho. But, as a good friend once told me "If she doesn't want my seat on the bus, all she has to do is say no, it doesn't stop me from offering it, does it?" The social situation also makes a difference, in the business world, many of the Chivalry basics are put on hold. For example, at a business luncheon, a respectful man would not stand when a woman leaves the table. Why? Because on the business table, there is no room for the same cultural difference a man is to respect as there is socially.



Juliet : Yes, being a gentlemen does involve being good in heart, and simply following the chivalry rules is often used by a guy trying hard to be noticed. But DISCREET chivalry is only one part of being a true man, and I'm glad you've caught on; many girls fall into the trap of the "gentlemen" only to realize he is, in fact, a douche.



Both of you have spoken of what makes a 'true' gentleman, and that's a great subject for my third post in this blog. Now remember, this blog is about being a man, not only about the character of a gentleman... though I suppose it is one of the most important parts.



King Charles I has been credited with penning the Twelve Good Rules. A true gentlemen considers these rules as one of the most true codes of conducts ever conjured. I have explained some of them a little.

1. Urge no healths - Healths as in making a toast. In other word Don't Push For a Toast.
   
   
2. Profane no divine ordinances - To insult a rule considered sacred by various religions. Even if a man is an unbeliever, he still has respect for such beliefs, and will take care not to offend those who do.
   
   
3. Touch no state matter - Likely "state" meaning civil government.
   
   
4. Reveal no secret
5. Pick no quarrels
6. Make no comparisons
7. Maintain no ill opinions
8. Keep no bad company
9. Encourage no vice
10. Make no long meals
11. Repent no grievances - This one is difficult to understand, as "grievances" can mean both real or imaginary reasons for complaint. One may read it as such: "Don't Feel Regret for an Imaginary Wrong".
    
    
12. Lay no wagers

But my absolute favorite explanation of a gentleman's conduct if in the words of John Henry Newman. In 1845, he wrote quite a bit on the matter, and, while I won't copy and past it's entirety here, I will share a couple of parts of a particular passage.

"Hence it is that it is almost a definition of a gentleman to say he is one who never inflicts pain. [...] The true gentleman in like manner carefully avoids whatever may cause a jar or a jolt in the minds of those with whom he is cast; —all clashing of opinion, or collision of feeling, all restraint, or suspicion, or gloom, or resentment; his great concern being to make every one at their ease and at home."

He adds many more points:

• He makes light of favours while he does them
  
  
• He never speaks of himself except when compelled,
  
  
• He has no ears for slander or gossip
• And interprets every thing for the best.
• He is never mean or little in his disputes

Notice he condemns "clashing of opinion"? Does that mean a man would never express his opinion if is it different to someone else? Not at all, withing a page he elaborates:

"If he engages in controversy of any kind, his disciplined intellect preserves him from the blundering discourtesy of better, perhaps, but less educated mind. [...] He may be right or wrong in his opinion, but he is too clear-headed to be unjust; he is as simple as he is forcible, and as brief as he is decisive"

A real man will not avoid a debate he finds interesting, even if it is only a few word long. But he WILL do so clear-headedly and only if does not harm anyone.

I could keep quoting from that book, he explains how unbelieves should still respect those who are religious, how mean are patiant, protective, and always inside others' minds... so I will simply leave the whole passage at the end of this post for any who wish to read it's entirety.

And there we have it, what a man's character is all about. What do you think? Any other important characteristics a man always lives by?

I won't put in any other traits yet, as I don't have any time to do so at the moment. However, I would like to say that this is yet another, very well put entry in one of my already favorite threads on Vizzed.