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Once saved, always saved?

 
Do you believe that once you become saved, you will always be so?
Yes
 
28.6%, 4 votes
No
 
71.4%, 10 votes
Multi-voting is disabled

02-27-13 10:56 PM
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Eirinn : I see what you mean. Though not always not seeing eye to eye is what I would call salt of the earth. As empty as that might sound, I respect your decision though.

As for you play4fun: You speak the truth, kind of but I just see it different. Well, pretty much what Erinn said with a heavy part on the "None is righteous. No, not one." part. And from here on its my views again: You cannot abandon a lifestyle of sin since you are born into sin.Its not something you chose or don`t chose. And do you enjoy it, love it or hate it or not, it does not make a difference. You sin. You always have, you will now and always will. Jesus might forgive you and save you but that is a fact that will be always there as long as you live. You sin.

And how good were you preserving you faith, you can try to run or hide and you can tell a mortal man anything you like but in the end its between you and the good lord and up to him.

Eirinn : I see what you mean. Though not always not seeing eye to eye is what I would call salt of the earth. As empty as that might sound, I respect your decision though.

As for you play4fun: You speak the truth, kind of but I just see it different. Well, pretty much what Erinn said with a heavy part on the "None is righteous. No, not one." part. And from here on its my views again: You cannot abandon a lifestyle of sin since you are born into sin.Its not something you chose or don`t chose. And do you enjoy it, love it or hate it or not, it does not make a difference. You sin. You always have, you will now and always will. Jesus might forgive you and save you but that is a fact that will be always there as long as you live. You sin.

And how good were you preserving you faith, you can try to run or hide and you can tell a mortal man anything you like but in the end its between you and the good lord and up to him.

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(edited by Brigand on 02-27-13 10:57 PM)    

02-28-13 09:34 AM
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Brigand : Again, no one says that Christians would not sin. Every verse that you talked about sin is true. But you neglect what God's Grace does to those who are born again. They would not continue to willfully sin. The Bible constantly talks about those who were of Christ to transform from the old self to the new self (Ezekial 11:19; Romans 6:6; 2 Corinthians 5:17) When someone is saved, they are dead to sin and they are no longer enslaved by sin. In fact, that is the whole point of Romans 6.

We die to sin so that we "walk in newness of life" (v. 4). Sin has no dominion over us. (v. 14) and we were "presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification." (v. 19, emphasis added) We are "set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life." (v. 22)

That is why Paul address the issue by saying: "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?" (Romans 6:1-2) If you are still living in sin, you never died to sin.

So, yes. Christians still sin because we are still in our earthly imperfect bodies. But we are not controlled by sin or addicted to sin. When we are saved, the Holy Spirit dwells in us and it is because of this that Christians would NOT be living a practice of sin:

"See what kind of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are. The reason why the world does not know us is that it did not know him. Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears[a] we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is. And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure.

Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God. By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother." (1 John 3:1-10)

And this comes to the confusion that some have with salvation. God is the author of salvation and He is the one that gives salvation. It is a free gift of Grace and not by our works. Because salvation is "by Grace through faith" and "not of works," salvation is not conditioned by our works. Our works and fruits are indicators of whether we are truly saved or not. That is why the Bible tells Christians to "Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test!" (2 Corinthians 13:5) and that No good tree can bear bad fruit (Luke 6:43)That is why when a Christian does sin, they have a sorrow for sinning against God; a repentant heart, which is something that nonbelievers don't have. That fruit would be shown and that is the work of the Holy Spirit in you.

So when you are saved, the Bible use language like you were "one time you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord"; that you were "adopted as sons"; that you are "heirs"; that you are "sealed with the promised Holy Spirit." All of this state that if you were truly saved, nothing can take it away from you.

(btw Eirinn: I would encourage you to check the verses surrounding the verses that you listed because the context and the background reasoning for writing those verses goes against what you are saying)

This is part of the peace that is given to us. The assurance of salvation: "And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption." (Ephesians 4:30)
Brigand : Again, no one says that Christians would not sin. Every verse that you talked about sin is true. But you neglect what God's Grace does to those who are born again. They would not continue to willfully sin. The Bible constantly talks about those who were of Christ to transform from the old self to the new self (Ezekial 11:19; Romans 6:6; 2 Corinthians 5:17) When someone is saved, they are dead to sin and they are no longer enslaved by sin. In fact, that is the whole point of Romans 6.

We die to sin so that we "walk in newness of life" (v. 4). Sin has no dominion over us. (v. 14) and we were "presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves to righteousness leading to sanctification." (v. 19, emphasis added) We are "set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the fruit you get leads to sanctification and its end, eternal life." (v. 22)

That is why Paul address the issue by saying: "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?" (Romans 6:1-2) If you are still living in sin, you never died to sin.

So, yes. Christians still sin because we are still in our earthly imperfect bodies. But we are not controlled by sin or addicted to sin. When we are saved, the Holy Spirit dwells in us and it is because of this that Christians would NOT be living a practice of sin:

"See what kind of love the Father has given to us, that we should be called children of God; and so we are. The reason why the world does not know us is that it did not know him. Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears[a] we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is. And everyone who thus hopes in him purifies himself as he is pure.

Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness. You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God. By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother." (1 John 3:1-10)

And this comes to the confusion that some have with salvation. God is the author of salvation and He is the one that gives salvation. It is a free gift of Grace and not by our works. Because salvation is "by Grace through faith" and "not of works," salvation is not conditioned by our works. Our works and fruits are indicators of whether we are truly saved or not. That is why the Bible tells Christians to "Examine yourselves, to see whether you are in the faith. Test yourselves. Or do you not realize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you?—unless indeed you fail to meet the test!" (2 Corinthians 13:5) and that No good tree can bear bad fruit (Luke 6:43)That is why when a Christian does sin, they have a sorrow for sinning against God; a repentant heart, which is something that nonbelievers don't have. That fruit would be shown and that is the work of the Holy Spirit in you.

So when you are saved, the Bible use language like you were "one time you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord"; that you were "adopted as sons"; that you are "heirs"; that you are "sealed with the promised Holy Spirit." All of this state that if you were truly saved, nothing can take it away from you.

(btw Eirinn: I would encourage you to check the verses surrounding the verses that you listed because the context and the background reasoning for writing those verses goes against what you are saying)

This is part of the peace that is given to us. The assurance of salvation: "And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, by whom you were sealed for the day of redemption." (Ephesians 4:30)
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03-01-13 04:26 PM
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Well its all good and true but I guess we just interpret it all differently.
Well its all good and true but I guess we just interpret it all differently.
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03-20-13 04:37 PM
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mrfe : Although there are those that argue yes, you can choose to walk away from your salvation. I'm swaying towards the no arguement.
If you are a born again Christian you now have everlasting life. You do not get everlasting life when you die, you have it the moment you accept God's grace and through Jesus' sacrifice. It begins at the moment of conversion. It is not that you must be born again repeatedly. The one that justifies you so that it is as though you never sinned is also the one that sanctifies you. He does not just start working in you, he continually works in you. You are daily being conformed into the image of Christ. (You are not literally becoming Christ but mere more Christ like is perhaps a better way of phrasing this) If you are daily being brought closer to God and Jesus says that nobody can snatch you from his hands then what can take you away from the saving grace of God which he has justly offered to you.
mrfe : Although there are those that argue yes, you can choose to walk away from your salvation. I'm swaying towards the no arguement.
If you are a born again Christian you now have everlasting life. You do not get everlasting life when you die, you have it the moment you accept God's grace and through Jesus' sacrifice. It begins at the moment of conversion. It is not that you must be born again repeatedly. The one that justifies you so that it is as though you never sinned is also the one that sanctifies you. He does not just start working in you, he continually works in you. You are daily being conformed into the image of Christ. (You are not literally becoming Christ but mere more Christ like is perhaps a better way of phrasing this) If you are daily being brought closer to God and Jesus says that nobody can snatch you from his hands then what can take you away from the saving grace of God which he has justly offered to you.
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03-20-13 04:47 PM
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I don't think so. I was 7 when I was "saved", and look at me now: an Agnostic. Views can change.
I don't think so. I was 7 when I was "saved", and look at me now: an Agnostic. Views can change.
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03-20-13 07:53 PM
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I hate the phrase. A lot. Technically, yes, but only because he chose us before the foundation of the world. We were saved the moment we existed because God loved us first. That caused our salvation. Once we were saved, we were always saved. However, the way people act doesn't mean they are saved. Also, we shouldn't really be concerned with guarantees of our salvation. We have baptism and Christ's body and blood to confirm it. We don't need some doctrine of "OSAS", especially since we cannot judge the hearts of those around us. Most of the time we don't even know our self. Here's the rule: love God with all your heart, mind, strength, and soul, and love your neighbor as yourself. Don't worry about it further.
I hate the phrase. A lot. Technically, yes, but only because he chose us before the foundation of the world. We were saved the moment we existed because God loved us first. That caused our salvation. Once we were saved, we were always saved. However, the way people act doesn't mean they are saved. Also, we shouldn't really be concerned with guarantees of our salvation. We have baptism and Christ's body and blood to confirm it. We don't need some doctrine of "OSAS", especially since we cannot judge the hearts of those around us. Most of the time we don't even know our self. Here's the rule: love God with all your heart, mind, strength, and soul, and love your neighbor as yourself. Don't worry about it further.
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03-21-13 12:20 AM
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Eva-Janova : Wait, I'm confused. You're statement sounds like supporting Once Saved Always Saved, but your second sentence said that you are swaying towards the no argument. Did you flip that?

thing1 : Salvation is not simply a change of view. It is a full faith and trust in God, surrendering your life to Christ. The Bible also talks about those who think they are saved, but are in reality false converts. Just plainly believe in God's existence is not being saved. Even the demons believed, and they shudder (James 2:19)

Txgangsta : I think we are on the same wavelength. I prefer the term "Perseverance of the Saints" more than OSAS. I do believe it is important to understand the context of our salvation. In a sense, the knowledge that you are saved due to God's work and that I can come to Him as I am, in full trust in Him, and knowing that I am found and nothing can separate me and Him does give provide a sense of peace and comfort in Him and would not feel concerned about salvation. 
Eva-Janova : Wait, I'm confused. You're statement sounds like supporting Once Saved Always Saved, but your second sentence said that you are swaying towards the no argument. Did you flip that?

thing1 : Salvation is not simply a change of view. It is a full faith and trust in God, surrendering your life to Christ. The Bible also talks about those who think they are saved, but are in reality false converts. Just plainly believe in God's existence is not being saved. Even the demons believed, and they shudder (James 2:19)

Txgangsta : I think we are on the same wavelength. I prefer the term "Perseverance of the Saints" more than OSAS. I do believe it is important to understand the context of our salvation. In a sense, the knowledge that you are saved due to God's work and that I can come to Him as I am, in full trust in Him, and knowing that I am found and nothing can separate me and Him does give provide a sense of peace and comfort in Him and would not feel concerned about salvation. 
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03-21-13 11:16 PM
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mrfe : Well, if someone becomes a Christian, and then stops obeying the Bible and forsakes God.
Then I think that they are going to hell, unless they repent and remember the Lord their God.

I've forgotten the verse but there is one that says: "faith without works is dead" we not only need to make Jesus our saviour,
we must also make him our Lord.
mrfe : Well, if someone becomes a Christian, and then stops obeying the Bible and forsakes God.
Then I think that they are going to hell, unless they repent and remember the Lord their God.

I've forgotten the verse but there is one that says: "faith without works is dead" we not only need to make Jesus our saviour,
we must also make him our Lord.
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play4fun : This may be more my poor English showing. My intention was to say that there are people of the opinion that it is possible to walk away from salvation. I am tending towards the argument that you cannot.
play4fun : This may be more my poor English showing. My intention was to say that there are people of the opinion that it is possible to walk away from salvation. I am tending towards the argument that you cannot.
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As several of you know, I've been on the fence about this issue for quite some time now.  I've been reading and thinking on a lot of scripture, and my opinion on the matter is no longer black and white.  I will tell you that I've always been against the OSAS ideology in the past.

This is something I'd really like to sort out, as it's an important thing to have an opinion on.  As someone said somewhere (maybe in this thread?), it can severely change the way certain verses are interpreted.  A lot of the scripture I once thought referred to the issue of salvation, I know read differently.  I think many of my ideas came from verses that actually talk about people who are falsely converted.

Is there any more evidence that any of you can offer?  I've been wondering if my ideas on OSAS are simply due to the magnificence of Christ's forgiveness.  That is, a difficulty accepting the fact that Christ can be so forgiving to such evil people.  (Just to clarify, I am not doubtful of Christ's forgiveness, but in awe of its magnitude.  That kind of forgiveness, I think will always be out of human's perfect comprehension.)  I guess in the past, I was of the view that someone could be unsaved, but slowly slip into a lukewarm relationship with Christ. And that the lukewarm relationship could deteriorate into perpetual lifestyle sin, which would lead God into turning His head away from said believer.

Based off much scripture and many conversations however, I'm left doubtful of my old views.  If someone -truly- excepts Christ, how could they slip into a lukewarm relationship that eventually falls apart?  When we accept Christ into our lives, we become new people in whom God resides.  Wouldn't that keep us from falling to the wayside?

Eirinn :
I'm particularly interested in your opinion, since you hold the belief I'm now not so certain about.
As several of you know, I've been on the fence about this issue for quite some time now.  I've been reading and thinking on a lot of scripture, and my opinion on the matter is no longer black and white.  I will tell you that I've always been against the OSAS ideology in the past.

This is something I'd really like to sort out, as it's an important thing to have an opinion on.  As someone said somewhere (maybe in this thread?), it can severely change the way certain verses are interpreted.  A lot of the scripture I once thought referred to the issue of salvation, I know read differently.  I think many of my ideas came from verses that actually talk about people who are falsely converted.

Is there any more evidence that any of you can offer?  I've been wondering if my ideas on OSAS are simply due to the magnificence of Christ's forgiveness.  That is, a difficulty accepting the fact that Christ can be so forgiving to such evil people.  (Just to clarify, I am not doubtful of Christ's forgiveness, but in awe of its magnitude.  That kind of forgiveness, I think will always be out of human's perfect comprehension.)  I guess in the past, I was of the view that someone could be unsaved, but slowly slip into a lukewarm relationship with Christ. And that the lukewarm relationship could deteriorate into perpetual lifestyle sin, which would lead God into turning His head away from said believer.

Based off much scripture and many conversations however, I'm left doubtful of my old views.  If someone -truly- excepts Christ, how could they slip into a lukewarm relationship that eventually falls apart?  When we accept Christ into our lives, we become new people in whom God resides.  Wouldn't that keep us from falling to the wayside?

Eirinn :
I'm particularly interested in your opinion, since you hold the belief I'm now not so certain about.
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Singelli :

It just sounds like what I think I said before. Once somebody believes to have been born again, he or she thinks he or she doesn't sin anymore.

And yeah, we can continue this with the part where I say people will always sin and I get countered with the one where your sins will always be washed away.

And I don't mean anything harm by this as a person to anyone but I still think there is nothing else that can come out of this "born again" ideology but pride and vanity.

Which I think I never did say out loud before either. I am sorry.
Singelli :

It just sounds like what I think I said before. Once somebody believes to have been born again, he or she thinks he or she doesn't sin anymore.

And yeah, we can continue this with the part where I say people will always sin and I get countered with the one where your sins will always be washed away.

And I don't mean anything harm by this as a person to anyone but I still think there is nothing else that can come out of this "born again" ideology but pride and vanity.

Which I think I never did say out loud before either. I am sorry.
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04-22-13 10:05 PM
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Singelli : Well, the best passages that can sum up my opinion are found in Jeremiah and Ezekiel. I know we can sometimes skim through references, but it is very important to read each passage in it's entirety.

(KJV) Jeremiah 18:5-10
Then the word of the Lord came to me, saying, [6] O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the Lord . Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel. [7] At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it ; [8] If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them. [9] And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it ; [10] If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.

Oddly, I had never noticed until just now when I was getting this passage for you, That God makes a comparison between the idea of being in sin, and then forgiven, and the idea of being pronounced clean, and falling back into Sin. He says the one is just like the other, and much like no Christian would ever dare say that one cannot be taken from Sin and made clean, so God says here that one can be taken from a righteous state to an evil state, if they begin to sin.

Now some would say that this is referring to a nation, and therefore does not apply to individuals. Fair enough. It could easily seem that way, until we compare it to what Ezekiel said.

(KJV) Ezekiel 18:21-26
But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. [22] All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live. [23] Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord God : and not that he should return from his ways, and live? [24] But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die. [25] Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal? [26] When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.

Here we have an undeniable reference that says that if a righteous man turns from doing rightousness and begins to sin, he will die in his sin, and his righteousness will not be mentioned when he is judged. Pay very close attention to verse number 24. This is definitely about an individual, not a group or nation.

And some would say that this is an old testament reference, and does not apply to us since this was before the perfect sacrifice of Jesus Christ. But please bear in mind, that both Jesus and His apostles taught everything that they believed from the Old Testament alone, as they did not have the New Testament, because they were living it (the new testament). So everything that they taught was from the Old Testament, therefore we cannot discard the old testament, as it is indeed the foundation for both the New Testament and everything that we believe. And the Apostol Paul said in Ephesians, that the only things that Christ did away with from the Old Testament were the ordinance commandments, therefore all of the prophets' messages are still applicable today.

(KJV) Ephesians 2:15
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances ; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

I can also list a simillar reference in Hebrews, but I think this explains my point of view well enough.


Probably one reason that I feel this way so much, is the fact that I have actually backslidden before myself. And to say once saved always saved, is to say that I never knew God before in the first place and that the whole thing was a matter of deception. And on a similar note, King David was a great man of God, but when he had Uriah killed after committing adultery with Uriah's wife, could we say that he would have been saved had he died at that point? Its just a thought. No offense if my views clash with anyone else's (and I'm sure they will). I'm just expressing my personal beliefs on what the Bible teaches. But like I said before, does it really matter if we can be lost after being saved or not, so long as we never go back to what we used to do before? And is this to say that one cannot possibly try to do the right thing even though their "experience" of salvation wasn't real? For example, if someone thinks they are saved, but did not follow what the scripture taught about salvation, could they not still try to do the right thing? And really, even for the saved, all we can do is try to do the right thing. No one here would be so arrogant as to say that a Christian never does anything wrong. That said, I don't really see this as serious issue, though it would be nice to have a definite view on it.


I hope that sums up my opinion in the least offensive way possible to anyone who disagrees. I would never wish to offend anyone. If I did so I apologize. God bless.
Singelli : Well, the best passages that can sum up my opinion are found in Jeremiah and Ezekiel. I know we can sometimes skim through references, but it is very important to read each passage in it's entirety.

(KJV) Jeremiah 18:5-10
Then the word of the Lord came to me, saying, [6] O house of Israel, cannot I do with you as this potter? saith the Lord . Behold, as the clay is in the potter's hand, so are ye in mine hand, O house of Israel. [7] At what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to pluck up, and to pull down, and to destroy it ; [8] If that nation, against whom I have pronounced, turn from their evil, I will repent of the evil that I thought to do unto them. [9] And at what instant I shall speak concerning a nation, and concerning a kingdom, to build and to plant it ; [10] If it do evil in my sight, that it obey not my voice, then I will repent of the good, wherewith I said I would benefit them.

Oddly, I had never noticed until just now when I was getting this passage for you, That God makes a comparison between the idea of being in sin, and then forgiven, and the idea of being pronounced clean, and falling back into Sin. He says the one is just like the other, and much like no Christian would ever dare say that one cannot be taken from Sin and made clean, so God says here that one can be taken from a righteous state to an evil state, if they begin to sin.

Now some would say that this is referring to a nation, and therefore does not apply to individuals. Fair enough. It could easily seem that way, until we compare it to what Ezekiel said.

(KJV) Ezekiel 18:21-26
But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die. [22] All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live. [23] Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord God : and not that he should return from his ways, and live? [24] But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die. [25] Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. Hear now, O house of Israel; Is not my way equal? are not your ways unequal? [26] When a righteous man turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and dieth in them; for his iniquity that he hath done shall he die.

Here we have an undeniable reference that says that if a righteous man turns from doing rightousness and begins to sin, he will die in his sin, and his righteousness will not be mentioned when he is judged. Pay very close attention to verse number 24. This is definitely about an individual, not a group or nation.

And some would say that this is an old testament reference, and does not apply to us since this was before the perfect sacrifice of Jesus Christ. But please bear in mind, that both Jesus and His apostles taught everything that they believed from the Old Testament alone, as they did not have the New Testament, because they were living it (the new testament). So everything that they taught was from the Old Testament, therefore we cannot discard the old testament, as it is indeed the foundation for both the New Testament and everything that we believe. And the Apostol Paul said in Ephesians, that the only things that Christ did away with from the Old Testament were the ordinance commandments, therefore all of the prophets' messages are still applicable today.

(KJV) Ephesians 2:15
Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances ; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

I can also list a simillar reference in Hebrews, but I think this explains my point of view well enough.


Probably one reason that I feel this way so much, is the fact that I have actually backslidden before myself. And to say once saved always saved, is to say that I never knew God before in the first place and that the whole thing was a matter of deception. And on a similar note, King David was a great man of God, but when he had Uriah killed after committing adultery with Uriah's wife, could we say that he would have been saved had he died at that point? Its just a thought. No offense if my views clash with anyone else's (and I'm sure they will). I'm just expressing my personal beliefs on what the Bible teaches. But like I said before, does it really matter if we can be lost after being saved or not, so long as we never go back to what we used to do before? And is this to say that one cannot possibly try to do the right thing even though their "experience" of salvation wasn't real? For example, if someone thinks they are saved, but did not follow what the scripture taught about salvation, could they not still try to do the right thing? And really, even for the saved, all we can do is try to do the right thing. No one here would be so arrogant as to say that a Christian never does anything wrong. That said, I don't really see this as serious issue, though it would be nice to have a definite view on it.


I hope that sums up my opinion in the least offensive way possible to anyone who disagrees. I would never wish to offend anyone. If I did so I apologize. God bless.
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play4fun : Old post, I know, but when I saw this thread at the head of the board and was like, "I really don't know the answer to that," I think that your post helped out a lot, as they usually do. You're one smart cookie!
play4fun : Old post, I know, but when I saw this thread at the head of the board and was like, "I really don't know the answer to that," I think that your post helped out a lot, as they usually do. You're one smart cookie!
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