Wow.... you guys believe in a really strange God...

I believe in three totally separate beings.

Take the baptism of Jesus or the Mount of Transfiguration experience. Jesus was on the earth while a voice from heaven spoke. Was Jesus in 2 places at once?

Or, why would Jesus pray to himself? Or, why would he say he had to leave so that another comforter could come when it's just going to be himself leaving and them coming back if he is 1 being?

It is called 3 persons as 1 essence.

it's called.... more than a 10 word response would be nice....

what does 3 person 1 essence even mean? Oh right... God is too unknowable to be understood by humans....

except that's not what the Bible teaches is it?

bignatealpha : I think it is more that our human understanding cannot even comprehend it. Through the Bible, we can see what the trinity is like, and what it is not.

Your analogy is very weird looking :p but at least it dealt against the modalism heresy.

geeogree : The view of the trinity is one God in three distinct persons at the same time. Remember that we believe in one God, and in terms of existence, there is only one God that exists. But God appears as 3 distinct persons, not in different modes or as separate beings

We see that the Holy Spirit, the Father and the Son are all God. When you look at cross-references about Jesus and God the Father. They are one.

"I and the Father are one." (John 10:30)

or when can think of the description of "savior":
"I am the LORD, and besides me there is no savior. (Isaiah 43:11) -and- "For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord." (Luke 2:11)

If we look at the Holy Spirit, Jesus referred to it as the counselor:
"But I tell you the truth: It is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you." (John 16:7)

but if we go back to Isaiah, Jesus was referred as the Wonderful Counselor:
"For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace." (Isaiah 9:6)

For this type of description, this is why many of the apostle's letters were sent in the name of "God the Father, God the Son, and God the holy spirit".

The reason why we see that there are three "persons," because each of them have a specific role and there is a certain hierarchical relationship between the three, yet are still one.

"So Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of his own accord, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever the Father does, that the Son does likewise."(John 5:19)

"And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever— " (John 14:16)

"Remember that we believe in one God"

what is this "we" stuff? I don't believe in only one God. I believe there are 3. You believe in 1 God in 3 persons or whatever you call it.

geeogree : When I say "we", I meant Christians.

and why do you get to decide what we as Christians believe?

geeogree : I was just stating what the Bible says. Even though the Bible does not have the word "trinity" in it, the concept is all around it. The cross reference of showing that Jesus is God itself is already staggering. Here's a copy of a friend of mine's documentation of cross reference verses that shows Jesus is God.

Jesus is God Incarnate
• Isaiah 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign. Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
• Matthew 1:23 [Speaking of Jesus]"Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel" (which means, God with us).
• John 1:14 the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we have seen his glory, glory as of the only Son from the Father, full of grace and truth.
• Zech. 12:10 [God says] I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and pleas for mercy, so that, when they look on me, on him whom they have pierced, they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps over a firstborn.
• 1 Tim. 3:16 Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness: He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.
• Rev. 1:7 Behold, he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, even those who pierced him, and all tribes of the earth will wail on account of him. Even so. Amen.

Jesus is Eternal
• Exodus 3:14 God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM." And he said, "Say this to the people of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.”
• Psalm 93:2 Your throne is established from of old; you are from everlasting.
• Isaiah 63:16 you, O Lord, are our Father, our Redeemer from of old is your name.
• Micah 5:2 But you, O Bethlehem Ephrathah, who are too little to be among the clans of Judah, from you shall come forth for me one who is to be ruler in Israel, whose origin is from of old, from ancient days.
• John 8:58 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am."
• John 10:28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.

Jesus has Divine Names
The Good Shepherd
• Psalm 23:1 The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
• Psalm 80:1 Give ear, O Shepherd of Israel, you who lead Joseph like a flock!
You who are enthroned upon the cherubim, shine forth.
• Ezekiel 34:12 As a shepherd seeks out his flock when he is among his sheep that have been scattered, so will I seek out my sheep, and I will rescue them from all places where they have been scattered on a day of clouds and thick darkness.
• John 10:11-14 I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. He who is a hired hand and not a shepherd, who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees, and the wolf snatches them and scatters them. He flees because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep. I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me,

Mighty God
• Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given; and the government shall be upon his shoulder, and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Lord and God
• Matthew 22:42-45 saying, "What do you think about the Christ? Whose son is he?" They said to him, "The son of David." He said to them, "How is it then that David, in the Spirit, calls him Lord, saying," 'The Lord said to my Lord, Sit at my right hand, until I put your enemies under your feet'? If then David calls him Lord, how is he his son?"
• John 20:28 Thomas answered him, "My Lord and my God!"

Savior
• Isaiah 43:3 For I am the LORD your God, the Holy One of Israel, your Savior.
• Isaiah 43:11 I am the LORD, and besides me there is no savior.
• Isaiah 45:15 O God of Israel, the Savior.
• Isaiah 45:21 a righteous God and a Savior; there is none besides me.
• Hosea 13:4 But I am the LORD your God…and besides me there is no savior.
• Luke 1:47 [Mary, speaking of Jesus]my spirit rejoices in God my Savior,
• Luke 2:11 For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Savior, who is Christ the Lord.
• Philip. 3:20 our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ,
• 2 Tim. 1:10 our Savior Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel
• 1 Tim. 4:10 we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.
• 2 Peter 2:20 our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ

The Rock
• Deut. 32:4 "The Rock, his work is perfect, for all his ways are justice. A God of faithfulness and without iniquity, just and upright is he.
• Deut. 32:15 Jeshurun… forsook God who made him and scoffed at the Rock of his salvation.
• Deut. 32:18 …unmindful of the Rock that bore you… you forgot the God who gave you birth.
• Deut. 32:30-31 How could one have chased a thousand, and two have put ten thousand to flight, unless their Rock had sold them, and the Lord had given them up? For their rock is not as our Rock; our enemies are by themselves.
• 1 Samuel 2:2 There is none holy like the Lord; there is none besides you; there is no rock like our God.
• Psalm 18:31 For who is God, but the Lord? And who is a rock, except our God?—
• Romans 9:33 Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense; and whoever believes in him will not be put to shame.
• 1 Cor. 10:1-4 [Israel, in the desert] …drank from the spiritual Rock that followed them, and the Rock was Christ.
• 1 Peter 2:7-8 [Jesus]The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone…A stone of stumbling, and a rock of offense

The Light
• Psalm 27:1 The Lord is my light and my salvation;whom shall I fear?
• Micah 7:8 the Lord will be a light to me.
• John 1:4-9 In him was life, and the life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it. There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. He came as a witness, to bear witness about the light, that all might believe through him. He was not the light, but came to bear witness about the light. The true light, which enlightens everyone, was coming into the world.
• John 8:12 Jesus said, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness, but will have the light of life."

The First and the Last
• Isaiah 44:6 Thus says the LORD… "I am the first and I am the last; besides me there is no god.
• Rev. 1:8 “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, "who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty."
• Rev. 1:17 [Jesus said],"Fear not, I am the first and the last”
• Rev. 2:8 [These are the] words of the first and the last, who died and came to life.
• Rev. 21:6 [Jesus said] I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end.
• Rev. 22:13 [Jesus Said] I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end."

Jesus Claimed Equality with God
• Matthew 28:19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit
• John 10:30 I and the Father are one."
• John 14:9 Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and you still do not know me, Philip? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'?
• Philip. 2:6 [Jesus] though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,
• John 5:16-18 "My Father is working until now, and I am working." …the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him… because he was calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.
• John 5:21-23 For as the Father raises the dead and gives them life, so also the Son gives life to whom he will. The Father judges no one, but has given all judgment to the Son, that all may honor the Son, just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent him.
• John 8:24 I told you that you would die in your sins, for unless you believe that I am he you will die in your sins."
• John 8:28 "When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you will know that I am he, and that I do nothing on my own authority, but speak just as the Father taught me.
• John 8:58-59 Jesus said, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am." So they picked up stones to throw at him
• John 10:30-33 “I and the Father are one.” Again Jews picked up stones again to stone him, because He claimed to be God

Jesus is Omnipresent
• Matthew 18:20 where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I among them.
• Matthew 28:20 behold, I am with you always, to the end of the age.
• John 3:13 No one has ascended into heaven except him who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.

Jesus is Omnipotent
Matthew 8:27 What sort of man is this, that even winds and sea obey him?
Matthew 28:18 All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me.

Jesus is Omniscient
• Matthew 9:4 Jesus, knowing their thoughts, said, "Why do you think evil in your hearts?
• (See Also: Matthew 12:25, Matthew 22:18, Mark 2:8 , Luke 5:22, Luke 6:8, Luke 9:46-48)
• John 1:48 Jesus knew Nathanael while he was under the fig tree
• John 2:24-25 He knew all people and needed no one to bear witness about man, for he himself knew what was in man.
• John 4:28-29 [Samaritan Woman] “Come; see a man who told me all that I ever did.”
• John 6:64 Jesus knew from the beginning who those were who did not believe,
• John 18:4 He knew all that would happen to him
• Acts 1:24 Lord, who know the hearts of all
• Col. 2:3 In [Jesus] are hidden all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge.

Jesus is the Creator
• John 1:1-3 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.
• Col. 1:16 For by him all things were created, in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities—all things were created through him and for him.
• Hebrews 1:3 He upholds the universe by the word of his power.

Jesus has Power over Nature
• Matthew 14:25 Walked on Water
• Luke 8:24 Rebuked the Wind

Jesus received Worship
Only God may be worshiped
• In Matthew 4:10 Jesus Himself said “You shall worship the Lord your God and him only shall you serve”
• Yet In Matthew 8:2; 9:18 and 15:25 He allows people to kneel before Him and call Him Lord

Jesus was Worshiped by the Disciples
• Matthew 28:9 [The disciples] came up and took hold of his feet and worshiped him.
Jesus was Worshiped by Others
• John 9:38 The man born Blind said, "Lord, I believe," and he worshiped him.

Jesus is Worshiped by Angels
• Hebrews 1:6 Let all God's angels worship him.

Jesus forgives Sins
• Matthew 9:2 Jesus said, "Take heart, my son; your sins are forgiven."
• Matthew 9:6 “…the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins"
• Mark 2:5 "My son, your sins are forgiven."
• Mark 2:10 “The Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins"
• Luke 5:20 Jesus said, "Man, your sins are forgiven you."
• Luke 5:24 “the Son of Man has authority on earth to forgive sins"
• Luke 7:47-50 Jesus said, "Your sins are forgiven." Then those who were at table with him began to say among themselves, "Who is this, who even forgives sins?"
• Acts 5:31 God exalted him at his right hand as Leader and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins.
• Col. 3:13 the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive.

Jesus has power over Life and Death
• John 10:17-18 I lay down my life that I may take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father."
• Rev. 1:18 [I am] the living one. I died, and behold I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of Death and Hades.

Theologians have been discussing this topic for ages, and when studying both the old and the new testament, the Bible gives outstanding evidence of this type of description. From the Council of Nicaea, they have coined this formula to the term, "the trinity"

I'm sorry... but the Trinity of Nicaea is not the God of the Bible. You and I could talk about this forever and probably never agree.... I was simply stating my opinion/interpretation of what I've read in the Bible. I don't see a 1 in 3 God. I see 3 Gods.

Stop summoning me to this thread please. If I want to continue the conversation I'll come back on my own.

(There is a "reply to post" button, and I was simply replying to your post, and you don't have to respond if you don't want to...but since you requested, then I won't summon you. This post is still directed to you though)

I could care less of what the outcome of the council of Nicaea, the point is the concept and the formula derived from what the Bible says, and since we were discussing about it and I gave my evidence for it, you can at least respond back to my evidence. Tell me where does this understanding go wrong, because this is a very important topic in Christianity. This is about what God is like.

Also, even with you stating your opinion, you should show from the Bible were can you see that it is a polytheistic understanding according to your interpretation. I don't care if it is a Bible verse or in terms of cultural context. Either respond to my evidence or reply with your evidence.

My reason of responding back because it has never been up to my opinion and it has not been me who decides what Christians believe. It is from what the Bible says that this concept is taken from.

Just like the title of Josh Mcdowell's book, these are "the evidence that demands a verdict"

if I was trying to convince you to my point of view then I would give you evidence.

You're right, it's not you.... it's you and hundreds of people before you that have decided who is and isn't a Christian when you don't have the right to do so. But you keep going on and on about what is and isn't "True Christian Doctrine" as if you're the one who is right. Of course your fall back is always, "I'm just telling you what the Bible says." It's not your job or your right to tell me what I do and don't believe as a Christian. The only thing that makes me a Christian as opposed to some other religion is my belief that Jesus died for my sins and faith in him allows me to be forgiven.

geeogree : Excuse me, I don't mean to butt in... but I think he's just trying to tell you why he believes that... not that believing the wrong thing about the trinity is un-Christian or anything... forgive me if I'm wrong, but I see his posts as saying he has found evidence in the Bible that he thinks points towards... that hard-to-explain relationship again.

play4fun : Am I reading your posts right?

Well since we are going into this topic:

It is important to have good theology. When you read in the New testament, there has always been an emphasis the proclamation of truth.

Here is a warning that Paul wrote:

"But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed" (Galatians 1:8)

Paul even confronted the Corinthian church about people who were preached at by those who preach a "different" Jesus:

"But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent's cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough." (2 Corinthians 11:3-4)

It is important to hold good theology and doctrine, for we don't want to hold false doctrine and believe in a different Jesus or a different Gospel (idolatry or creating a God in our own image in our minds).

Jesus did the exact same thing when he was approached by people. He corrected a rich man's understanding of the word "good," he told a teacher that unless you are born again, you cannot see the Kingdom of God, and many more.

Remember there are doctrines that are essential and are nonnegotiable, and there are secondary doctrines that either have no importance in terms of God, salvation or the Bible and people still disagree with each other.

What I'm saying is that, the belief of polytheism is not a Christian belief. I'm not forcing you to listen to me, in fact you can always choose to ignore me, but what I'm saying is that it is not biblical, and if you have the slightest part of you that cares about it, at least check and see if my claim is true. I myself need to check myself if my claims on true.

bignatealpha : we still find it hard to see how God is 3 in 1, because in our human minds, that does not work out, but we can see from the Bible what it is not. That is why beliefs are distorting or misinterpreting the idea of the trinity, like modalism, polytheism or Oneness Pentecostals, etc, are heretical, because it is about who God is.

The trinity is like 3 distinct personalities who each share a similar yet different functions. I agree with play4fun. We don't think of God as 3 and 1 at the same time because we just cannot understand the creator.

Ok so the baptism of Jesus: Matthew 3:16&17- When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, "This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased." This is the Trinity in action. At this we see the three Persons of the "Godhead." Jesus is seen coming out of the water, the Holy Spirit descends upon Jesus, then the Father speaks from heaven- "This is my Son in whom I am well pleased." Modalism teaches that there is one God who sometimes appears as the Father, and sometimes as the Son, and sometimes as the Holy Spirit. But here they are, all three together at once.

no they the some person they just gave them diffent names

here's what I think. I do agree that we can't fully comprehend it, but I think God is one being with 3 different "layers" so to speak.

I believe that we each have a body, soul, & spirit. The body would be the physical thing we see, the soul being our emotions, & the spirit being the thing that can actually communicate with God. Since we were created in God's image(Genesis 1:26), I believe that Jesus represents the body aspect, God the Father represents the soul aspect, & the Holy Spirit represents the spirit aspect. Since God can do anything, I believe he's the only one with the ability to split up his "layers".


I know it's a weird explanation, but that's the best way I could say it.

Both views of God being three gods and one God are taken from the Bible. Jesus says that "My doctrine is not Mine, but His who sent Me. If anyone wills to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God or whether I speak on My own authority."(John 7:16&17) Jesus says "When He, the Spirit of Truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth: for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak."(John 16:13) From this alone, one would believe that God is three gods, interpreted as- how can God be One God(all three persons the same) when clearly the Father is greater than the Son and the Son is greater than the Holy Spirit. Jesus further states, "Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me,"(John 14:11) and "He who has seen Me has seen the Father."(John 4:9) It also pleased the father that in Him all the fullness should dwell and in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily.(Colossians 1:19 & 2:9) All the fullness of the Godhead "dwells" or "permanently resides" in the body of Jesus, and the Bible clearly states that the Holy Spirit is "the Spirit of Christ"(Romans 8:9) and the Spirit of His Son"(Galatians 4:6). The fact is both views can't be wrong. Personally I don't buy into the 1st view with knowledge of the 2nd view.

A friend of mine wrote this summary, and I have to say, this is really well written for a summary:

"If God grants, I would like to post a series on the Biblical doctrine of the Trinity. However, since the doctrine of the Trinity is often misunderstood, I must first set forth some preliminary considerations.


What the Trinity is Not
■The Trinity is not three gods. This is Tri-theism and it is repulsive to God.
■The Trinity is not one person with three names. This is a heresy known as Modalism.
■The Trinity is not one god and two lesser beings. This is a heresy known as Subordinationism.


Some Important Terms
■A “Being” is something that exists. A rock is a being, you are a being, and God is a being. Being is sometimes called Essence, or Substance
■A “Person” is an individual, a self; a conscious, rational being with an intellect, emotions and a will. “Personality” is an attribute possessed by some beings.
■The “Trinity” is one God who is three persons. God is one being, three persons. God is three persons, one being.


An Important Distinction

It is important to notice the distinction between “being” and “person”. We often use the terms synonymously. But this is not the case when we discuss the Trinity.
■A worm is one being and zero persons.
■A human is one being and one person.
■God is one being and three persons.


A Statement

God is one being, three persons.


A Common Objection

Critics of the Trinity will insist that the doctrine of the Trinity violates a rule of logic. They charge Christians with believing a contradiction. Of course, if the doctrine of the Trinity involved a contradiction, we would have to reject it. A bona fide contradiction is fatal to any doctrine. However, a careful examination of both the doctrine of the Trinity and the Law of Non-Contradiction will show that the doctrine of the Trinity does not involve a contradiction.
The Law of Non-Contradiction: X cannot be X and not X in the same way at the same time.
■God is only one being, God is three Beings, is a contradiction.
■God is three persons, God is only one person, is a contradiction.
■God is one being, God is three persons, is not a contradiction.
■God is three persons, God is one being, is not a contradiction.


Another Common Objection

No doubt, you have heard it before, “The word ‘Trinity’ is not even in the bible.” This is true but irrelevant. We get our word “Trinity” or “Tri-unity” from the Greek word, trias and the Latin word, trinitas, both mean, three in one. Trias and trintas were used by early Christians to describe the Bible’s teaching about God. “Trinity” is a word that summarizes the tri-unity of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. It is not uncommon for the Church to borrow, or even create, words to describe theological truths. For example, the word “incarnation” means, in the flesh. It is not found in the Bible. Yet the truth of God in the flesh is undeniable. So, it is okay to use the word “incarnation” to describe God in the flesh. The word “Trinity” is no different. It does not appear in the Bible, but the truth that it expresses is present throughout the entire Bible.


Summary of the Biblical Doctrine of the Trinity

The Bible’s teaching on the Trinity can be summarized by the following three truths.
■There is one God (Deut. 6:4; Isa. 44:6, 8)
■God is three persons (Mt. 3:16-17, 28:19; 2 Cor. 13:14; Eph. 4:4-6; Titus 3:4-6)
■Each person is fully God (Psalm 100:3; Col. 1:16; Psalm 104:30)

Each of theses truths is undeniable, and they must all be held simultaneously. These biblical truths are perfectly rational. Still, it is difficult for our minds to grasp these three truths all at one time. Yet, we should not be surprised that our feeble minds strain to grasp the Almighty God.

-Brainiac"

play4fun : Dude, you have some pretty cool friends if they can write stuff as insightful as this. I love the use of defining being vs. person. Maybe this can help our futile minds comprehend the trinity to an extent.
geeogree : What do you say to this?