lol, thanks for finally getting this up.
As play4fun said, I'll be more than happy to answer any questions you may have about our faith .

This is a really good thread. I too might have some answers if you got the questions.

Yay!!! I heard this was gonna come up. Nice job. Now let's hope people actually read the stickies -.-

all Christians do not share this opinion, i was raised christian and will now show u a different christian opinion.

play4fun said: So we looked at 4 of the 10 so far? How did you do? If you are guilty of all of these that are listed, in reality, you are not a good person

In the bible David committed adultery, and had a man killed but because he tried to do good and tried his best to be good god called him a man after his own heart.

play4fun said:You might be thinking, “wait a minute, are you saying that no one is good?” Yes. Even Jesus told a rich young ruler that “…No one is good—except God alone.” (Luke 18:19) By that standard, everyone is guilty. So this is the bad news. One of God’s attributes is that He must be Just and Righteous, or else He would not be God. And a just judge (Psalm 9:8; 7:11; Acts 17:31) would not let criminals go unpunished. So since we are all guilty of breaking His laws (Romans 3:23), we all should be going to hell. We sin, and “sin IS lawlessness” (1 John 3:4)

well correct me if i am wrong, but wasn't there a criminal crucified with Jesus who asked what heaven was like and he said not to worry that he will be there? so obviously someone who does something bad is not automatically punished.

play4fun said: That should greatly concern us, because what He is doing is right. We deserve hell. But God is also a God of Love, and God does not want us to go to hell. What did God do so that you would not go to hell? Jesus Christ, God Himself, came to this earth and in demonstrating His love, died on the cross to pay for sins of all of the people in the world, and 3 days later defeated death and rose again to offer us eternal life. “But he was pierced for our transgressions, he was crushed for our iniquities; the punishment that brought us peace was upon him, and by his wounds we are healed.” (Isaiah 53:5)
thats about the only thing i agree with you about.

play4fun says: Some Common Objections (will be edited when more objections come up):
I don’t believe in God.

It does not matter whether you believe God exists or not. If this is true, you would still be going to hell if you die in your sins.

That is not my God. My god is a god of love and would never send anyone to hell.

Do you know what you just did? You have broken the second of the Ten Commandments: You should not make yourself a graven image.

I know I’ve done wrong, but I also did good things too, more good than bad.

That would not work, even in our human court system. You tell the judge, “Judge, I may have killed this woman, but I only did it once. I also volunteer in this disaster shelter for 9 years every day.” The judge would not let you go. You still need to pay the fine

Nice way to use the most ridiculous arguments ever. if someone doesn't believe in god then they don't believe, it is not any persons place to condemn them or to say where they are going (judge not lest ye be judged) also the whole idol thing was about a golden cow made by the jewish people, and idol is an image and like it or not everyone who believes in this has an image of god in their minds (how he acts,thinks,looks,talks.). and now onto the murder thing, so lets say i become a millionaire, and i donate a lot of money to different things, saved 200 million people, end world hunger, never killed anyone, and cure all diseases, am i still going to hell? thats about how extreme your argument is about murder compared to good people with faults.

EDIT: so to finish up my statement, i think it shouldn't matter what you believe as long as u try and be a good person, and i don't believe in degrading or condemning those who think different.

metal572 : That is, unfortunately, and no offense intended, but that's not a Christian mindset you just showed:
David did commit adultery, but do you remember how he payed? His first child with Bathsheba died. And if you read his prayer in Psalms, you know he repented. That's why he's called a man after God's own heart.

The criminal went to heaven because he believed in his heart... because he figured out who Jesus was and what He was doing.

Sadly, those are arguments used to say they don't need to accept Christ.
They are creating idols. God does condemn people. The phrase "My God" sums it up pretty nicely: it is "their God" because that's not really God, He's not like that, He does condemn people. As for your example; even if you did all that, if you didn't accept Christ, you would go to Hell. Plain and simple. Even with all that good stuff, the guy in your example still sinned at one point in his life, everyone has. No getting around it.

You summary is as non-Christian as it gets. No, we're not supposed to judge, but that means don't call out individuals like "you're horrible, you're going to Hell!" Getting them to realize that Hell is what they deserve by presenting the Gospel is in no way wrong. You can't be a good person. Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." Sorry, but it's inevitable: You don't accept Christ, you go to Hell. It's harsh, but it's the truth, and people need the truth.

metal572 : I will respond some of what you said. Yellow is your statements, green is my response.

"In the bible David committed adultery, and had a man killed but because he tried to do good and tried his best to be good god called him a man after his own heart" That is true that God calls him a man after his own heart. However, it is not because he was a good person. If you read the book of Psalms, many of what David wrote was sorrowful repentance, of how sinful he is, and humbly coming to God for forgiveness. He did not talk about his own goodness, because he knows that, compare to God, he was not even close.

"well correct me if i am wrong, but wasn't there a criminal crucified with Jesus who asked what heaven was like and he said not to worry that he will be there? so obviously someone who does something bad is not automatically punished."
bigNATE is right on his response, but let's look at the verse itself (notice the comparison between the 2 criminals):
39One of the criminals who hung there hurled insults at him: "Aren't you the Christ? Save yourself and us!"
40But the other criminal rebuked him. "Don't you fear God," he said, "since you are under the same sentence? 41We are punished justly, for we are getting what our deeds deserve. But this man has done nothing wrong."
42Then he said, "Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom."
43Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise." (Luke 23:39-40)
Can you see the difference? He is talking about he deserves the punishment on the cross, and he is looking to Jesus for his place in heaven.

After talking about grace, you said "thats about the only thing i agree with you about"
if you agree with that, then you would agree with the sentences before. Jesus said this. "It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners." (Mark 2:17) If we are good, there is no point of a savior. Unless we understand our sinfulness, Jesus dying on the cross would not make sense if you can just try to be good and go to heaven.

"if someone doesn't believe in god then they don't believe, it is not any persons place to condemn them or to say where they are going (judge not lest ye be judged)"
Well now this is interesting, because I did not make these claims. Look at what Jesus said: "Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. (John 3:18) "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me" (John 14:6)

"also the whole idol thing was about a golden cow made by the jewish people, and idol is an image and like it or not everyone who believes in this has an image of god in their minds (how he acts,thinks,looks,talks.)."
So, if you think that God is evil, would that be ok? The way God is like is not the way we see it, but the way he is revealed in the Bible. If you make an image of saying that God would not let someone go to hell, you are imagining a God to suit yourself. Saying that God is all condemning and would not let anyone to go to heaven would be the same thing, it's idolatry.

"and now onto the murder thing, so lets say i become a millionaire, and i donate a lot of money to different things, saved 200 million people, end world hunger, never killed anyone, and cure all diseases, am i still going to hell?"
A lot of our sins may seem petty or small. But let's think about lying for a second. If you lie to your little brother, what would he do? Absolutely nothing (or tell on you). If you lied to your parents, they would probably ground you. If you lied to your teacher, then there would be detention. If you lied to the president, that would be deemed treason! Same sin, different consequences. Why? because it is directed to different levels of people. All our sin is no different from each other, because all of them are sinning against God.

Also, we talked about how God is a just judge, as it said in scripture. A just judge would not let someone go just because he did more good than bad. If God judges Hitler, you would say that he deserve hell because of what he did. So do we. We are no different. We all still sin.

"I think it shouldn't matter what you believe as long as u try and be a good person, and i don't believe in degrading or condemning those who think different."
We are not condemning people. Those standards are pointed at me too. In fact, the purpose of the law "was put in charge to lead us to Christ that we might be justified by faith." Our church fathers know that before we can go to the cross, we must understand our sinfulness. Then we can come to the cross. And what the Bible says is that no one is good, even Jesus affirmed it. and also in Romans. And Romans also made it clear that those who are in Jesus Christ would not be condemned (Romans 8:1)In fact, if you look at the first 4 chapters of Romans, the first 3 was condemning condemning condemning, and then in chapter 4, it talks about Abraham was deemed righteous through faith in God.

"he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, (Titus 3:5) It is all over the place. I mentioned Ephesians 2 also. It is so clear that it is through faith in Jesus and not by our works that we would go to heaven.

Just curious, what are you raised? Because this is the actual gospel itself. Any Christian would know this and agree to this.

bigNATE : DUDE, thank you for reminding me about Psalm 51. I should put this on the thread as a model of a repentant prayer.

Also, for your last statement, I would word it as that if we do not receive Christ, we would have to pay our fine on our own, which no one can.

play4fun : Thanks, I was trying to find a better wording... it just came out better when I was blunt .

bigNATE : "That is, unfortunately, and no offense intended, but that's not a Christian mindset you just showed:" ok first of all just because you say no offense doesn't mean it isn't offensive. second of all, who are you to tell me if i am believing in my religion the wrong way? Did i at any point tell you that you didn't think like a christian because you disagree with how i read the scripture? no not once.

metal572 : Alright, first of all, even if by "no offense", it doesn't make it not offensive, bigNATE says that in order to say that he isn't TRYING to offend you, so don't just lash out at him for saying "no offense." He meant well.
Second, refer to play4fun's entire response to your argument please.
And, there is a way for you to be wrong about your religion. There's this thing called doctrine. Christianity has already established a certain doctrine about the gospel. The Catholic Inquisition killed many because of going against church doctrine, or heresy. Now, I'm not saying I agree with that fact that they kill off many "heretics" because they were misguided. But originally the Inquisition was a just system used to find heretics and lead them back to the faith. They were concerned with the salvation of the heretics.
Alright alright, I'm not even Catholic, so you might be asking what does this even have to do with anything. All I'm trying to say is, being wrong about Christianity IS possible. You can still commit heresy, even after the Inquisition ended because it was so wrongly used. In the end, it won't matter what you THINK, because you'll still face consequences if you're wrong.
I've used this analogy hundreds of times now. But I'll say it again: Imagine yourself standing in the middle of a highway. You say "I don't believe in traffic." If you don't believe in traffic, does that mean you'll be totally safe standing in the middle of a highway? NO! You'll get hit by a car or worse! You can believe in something as hard as you want, but that won't make it right or true. That's what faith is all about; there's a huge difference between faith and superstition.
Look, if you're gonna disagree with this, fine, but it's your OPINION. This thread is illustrating the gospel as FACT, not opinion. The gospel is not condemning people. It's trying to bring them back to Christ. Informing people about Jesus is doing them a favor, not judging them and condemning them. It's telling them that Jesus has died for our sins so that we can obtain salvation.
One more thing. You've used one of the most overused arguments ever with that whole "good person thing." Like, "what if I did all these good deeds and never did anything wrong" nonsense.
play4fun just covered that. He covered that since this thread STARTED by presenting the gospel. The gospel says that ALL people fall short. NO ONE deserves salvation. We don't live up to God's standards by breaking ANY of the Ten Commandments. And that's why Jesus came. To give us that salvation, because alone, we can't obtain it. You agreed to that yourself. If we could just do good works to gain eternal life, then there would be no point in Jesus coming and sacrificing His life on the cross for our sins. That's why the gospel is how it is.

mdynasty926 : lol, you beat me to it.
metal572 : By saying "no offense", I acknowledged that it might sound offensive, but I'm being blunt and honest here: the things you were saying contradicted everything play4fun pointed out from scripture. Meaning, if you actually believe what you were saying... you aren't truly following Christ... I don't mean to sound rude, but I'm being honest here. If you disagree with this stuff as presented, you disagree with the Gospel... and that's a non-Christian response.

bigNATE : yes because as everyone knows there is only one way to interpret the scripture
The bible may be the word of god but the meaning of the words are interpreted by man and ,as i am sure you know, the bible is not plain black and white on a lot of things.

metal572 : But then that just goes back to the whole right and wrong thing. There is a right way to interpret scripture and there is a wrong way to interpret scripture.

mdynasty926 : and who decided that? and who decides what is the right way? I have seen some stupid things in my life but people saying that religion which is interpreted every day isn't allowed to be interpreted any way but theirs i just have to step back in shock. do you know how many churches interpret the bible differently? some churches don't think there should be music in them cus the bible says to sing to god but it doesn't mention music. some churches think that if you can hold snakes and not get bite then you must be a good christian. If you think there is only one way to believe in the christian religion then you need to look around you and see that is absolutely not true.

metal572 : No you need to understand what I'm saying. You're saying there's lots of different interpretations but that doesn't mean that they're all true. OHH no. That's like saying there's lots of religions so everyone of them is true. That's not true at all. You can't say that. There is a right and wrong way to interpret the Bible. It's not like a piece of art. It's supposed to be for reference.
Like what you just said. Do you truly think that churches can't have music because it doesn't mention music(and actually, I think it does )? Do you really think you can be known as a good Christian if you can hold snakes and not get bitten? It's ridiculous. That's almost like postmodernism.

The scripture is to be its own interpreter, or rather the Spirit speaking in it. Nothing can cut the diamond but the diamond; nothing can interpret scripture but scripture. The sun best discovers itself by its own beams; the scripture interprets itself to the understanding. But the question is concerning hard places of scripture, where the weak Christian is ready to wade beyond his depth; who shall interpret here?

The church of God has appointed some to expound and interpret scripture; therefore he has given gifts to men. The several pastors of churches, like bright constellations, give light to dark scriptures. Mal 2: 7. 'The priest's lips should keep knowledge, and they should seek the law at his mouth.’

But this is to pin our faith upon men.

We are to receive nothing for truth but what is agreeable to the Word. As God has given to his ministers gifts for interpreting obscure places, so he has given to his people so much of the spirit of discerning, that they can tell (at least in things necessary to salvation) what is consonant to scripture, and what is not. I Cor 12: 10. 'To one is given a spirit of prophecy, to another discerning of spirits.' God has endued his people with such a measure of wisdom and discretion, that they can discern between truth and error, and judge what is sound and what is spurious. Acts 17: 2: 'The Bereans searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.’ They weighed the doctrine they heard, whether it was agreeable to scripture, though Paul and Silas were their teachers. 2 Tim 3: 16.

metal572 : It is funny how you did not respond to my post about your objections. I even gave you a question in the end, because I want to know what background you were raised.

First of, you keep quoting "Judge not lest ye be judge." ummm, do you really understand what Jesus meant by that? http://www.gotquestions.org/do-not-judge.html

Anyways, the topics that you talked about that different denominations have different viewpoints are "secondary issues," meaning both sides different viewpoints on the topic, but it would not affect their salvation. The use or non-use of music does not affect a person's salvation, the different beliefs of how the last days of earth would happen does not affect a person's salvation, the different beliefs of how church should be done does not affect a person's salvation.

However, all Christian understand the gospel the same way. This is a core theology that basically DEFINES Christianity: Lutherans, Baptist, Methodist, Reformed, you name it. They all agree to the gospel.

But I want to hear what you think scripture says that supports what you believe. How bout you show me in scripture where does it say that "as long as you try to do good, you will go to heaven, and it does not matter what you believes". I already gave my support through scripture, so I want to see where you would find that to support your beliefs. And I want to know what think the gospel means.

play4fun : I never said there was any scripture saying if you are a good person that is all that matters, that is my opinion and i did not try and say that was in the bible. I was raised christian, i have a ton of bibles in my house, and i was raised to have good morals. also each denomination does not read it the same way, i can tell you that from just visiting multiple churches. I do not see what my background has to do with it tho as i already said i was raised christian. what was meant by "judge not lest ye be judged" is that it is not up to man to say who is going to hell. There are plenty of examples of god being merciful in the bible (such as preventing Abraham from killing his son or only out casting Moses instead of smiting him), and like I said, EVERYONE and i mean EVERYONE (who believes in this) has a mental image of how god looks or thinks or acts. so by saying you cant even have a mental image of god or it is an idol then everyone who believes in it would be guilty of that. I am done with this conversation if you want to continue it we can talk one on one thru either PM or chat.

Ok, then I'll just continue this conversation with metal572 through PM. Since we don't want to fill his PM soooo many message. I'll just talk to metal572. If something similar happens to a different person, someone else can have dibs to PM that person

This shouldnt be a sticky as it is obviously not what all christians think so people who are non christians reading this shouldnt take it as such.
How is one bunch of christians allowed to say to another christian that they are in the wrong, isnt that just judging them?
Considering it is all just beliefs and opinions, none of them can be said to be "right" or "wrong", you just think that's the case.
But unless some god comes down from the sky and says to everyone "this is what the facts are" then no one knows.
And dont pull that nonsense about "but that's what the bible is for" because if that was the case then there wouldnt be so many interpretations of it and no one would be able to say that it is wrong.

mdynasty926 says "You're saying there's lots of different interpretations but that doesn't mean that they're all true"
While that is true, it doesnt mean your interpretation is the truth.
I've said it before, unless one can ask the author the meaning then no one knows which interpretation is correct.
And that's even assuming that there even is an interpretation that is correct.

DarkHyren : Who are you to be telling Christians what the message is? The true meaning of Christianity is presented fully here. The stuff metal's saying is contradictory to the Bible, and therefore not Christian beliefs.
Also, there's this thing called context. If you read the passage surrounding the given text, you will often find the true meaning within.

Good post, I agree with almost everything. 1 thing I'd like to point out though.

Even if you're saved, you can still go to hell. I'm saved and lets say I commit a sin and die shortly after without repenting, I'd go to hell since no sinner can enter the kingdom of God (but we remove that sin from our soul when we ask Jesus to forgive us). However, if and when I do sin, I'm always sure to repent soon after. The Bible talks about repenting multiple times in a day and that there really is no limit on how many times you can repent in a single day, just as long as you truly mean it every time and God knows your heart so he'd know if you do or not.

My point is, for all of us Christians who are saved, we must make it a habit of repenting daily if we're sinning daily. Another good thing to which is a good thing to get into the habit of doing is repenting at night while you're praying before you go to sleep, that way you never forget and get into the habit.

Davideo7 : Well, isn't it sort of like, if you're truly saved then you might still sin, but you wouldn't be indulging it? You would know it's wrong and repent your sins and stuff like that.
Ehh, I feel like that was a bad way to phrase that...
But what I mean is that, I kind of don't think you can go to hell if you're saved, because... you're saved . But it's not a one time thing, where once you accept him once you automatically go to heaven, but you have to devote your life to God and live as a Christian, repenting sins when necessary.

mdynasty926 : People who are saved though aren't perfect, they're still capable of sinning, though they would of course feel guilty afterward and it most likely would be in them to repent afterward anyway. The Bible doesn't say to repent daily for no reason though.

Davideo7 : I know people who aren't saved aren't perfect. But that's why Jesus came right? To make it possible to go to heaven even if we can't fulfill the Ten Commandments. Because no one could do that and we still have to repent our sins because like I said before, it's not a one time deal. You have to live as a Christian too.
I mean, if you're "saved" then that means that you've received the salvation doesn't it? You might stumble on the way with sin but you're still saved by God.
DarkHyren : There's already an established doctrine for Christianity though, and the Gospel is a key concept that is accepted(or should be accepted) by ALL Christians. Some might say they're Christians, but it is possible for them to be not Christians. It might seem harsh, but it's true. There are some who aren't even if they claim to be Christian.

Davideo7 : That's interesting... I don't believe you have to repent after every sin before you can go to Heaven... although I can't think of any verses off the top of my head that say otherwise. I believe the term saved puts it well though... it describes what I hold as true: once you've truly come to Christ, you are forever saved from Hell, no matter what you do... because a true follower of Christ will try to not do many horrible things. But if they do, since they're of course not perfect... well, they'll have the sense to plead for forgiveness... however, I believe that that forgiveness is not withheld until you ask. When Jesus died, all sins, past, present, and future, were forgiven. The act of praying for God's forgiveness is a symbolization of our efforts to repent.

bigNATE : think about what you just said....

God will forgive you once you've accepted him whether you ask for forgiveness or not after you sin.... but you have to accept God before he'll forgive you.

So, you have to accept Jesus to be forgiven of sin... but after that you don't have to do anything to be forgiven of sin.

I guess it just doesn't make sense to me.

But to rebut David a tiny bit.... I don't think a sin committed right before death is a one-way ticket to hell. There is a time between death and the final judgment of mankind where I think there is time to repent....

geeogree : Yeah, that's what I'm trying to say... and I don't quite understand either... er, more that I don't understand how God could actually do that for us with all our rebellion. But that's what I've seen, and what I believe. I can see it working, however, based on the heart of a true Christian: they'll want to repent... so God doesn't have to worry about them not repenting.

but that is contradictory.... if they don't believe strongly enough to repent then why do they deserve to be forgiven? Because they said a prayer one time and said they believed in Jesus?

I don't understand this idea in Christianity where once saved always saved.... it's seems like a very easy, lazy way to get to heaven. And I don't believe the Bible teaches it either. Jesus preached obedience to commandments, repentance, baptism, enduring to the end.... not pray to God once and you're saved no matter what from then on out.

Yeah I agree with Geeogree's above statement. Plus I've seen plenty of Born Again Christians back slide, even some who had the gifts of the Holy Spirit.

What if a born again Christian goes through a few events which causes them to rebel and eventually ends up killing someone, would they still go to heaven even if they didn't repent for murdering someone?

And I agree, I don't like the "Once saved always saved" stuff, that to me makes it seem like once you're saved you can do anything you want and you're guaranteed a ticket to heaven no matter what.

Every Christian is going to sin willing and unwillingly, it's in our nature because we still wrestle with the flesh even though we have the Spirit. So there is a difference between a slip-up and full-blown back-slide. Yeah I'm gonna venture to say that if you kill someone after you have received Christ, you will have to give an account for it, but still God is able to forgive. But I want to point out some things that Paul wrote regarding this. I know that I am taking a sizable chunk out of from the bible here but I believe it is all relevant to the subject.

ROMANS 7:19-8:14: For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. But I see another law in in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? I thank God--through Jesus Christ our lord! So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. For what the law could not do in that it was weak through through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you. Therefore, brethren, we are debtors--not to the flesh, to live according to the flesh. For if you live according to the flesh you will die;but if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body, you will live. For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

With our time here, the idea of repentance and humiliation before God is fellowship with Him, that is why we are here. And we are to be repentant, but to be technical, if we sin then die before having the chance to confess and repent, we still have His Spirit. This is the idea of the once-for-all forgiveness.

EDIT: not sure if anyone noticed but I left out a word in the scripture, fixed it.

I know it's not like "once saved always saved" exactly but it's a lifetime relationship with God. See here's the thing though. I don't think you can lose your salvation. If you were truly a Christian, or truly born again, you wouldn't be able to "backslide" to the point where you can lose your faith. I don't think you can. Some atheists or something claim to be former Christians, but then I don't think they were in the first place to be honest. It's harsh for those who I claimed were false converts, but I don't think true Christians can lose their salvation.
Being "Born again" means you're a new creature as the Bible calls it. So if you're a new creature, then you would think about things differently and you wouldn't fall deep into sin because you would know to resist, and then if you sin you would repent.
I don't know if an act of sin right before you die would cause you to lose your faith, but I doubt that.

Davideo7 :

geeogree :

I agree with MDynasty and bigNATE. When a person is converted (repented and put their faith in Jesus), they are born again (rebirth), with their hearts regenerated, and they are saved. So their sins are forgiven past, present, and future.

We need to remember that salvation belongs to the Lord (Psalm 62:1; Revelation 7:10) He's the one who gives it. So if we go back to the concept of rebirth, the only way a Christian can lose salvation is when he is de-born, have their hearts degenerate, and have God to take salvation away from them.

Here's the thing. I'm pretty sure that you do not know every single sin that you have committed. So it is impossible that you can confess every single sin that you have committed in your life. When you receive Jesus as your personal savior, you are saved. Past tense. You are "sealed for the day of redemption." (Ephesians 4:30) You became "heirs of God" (Romans 8:17), and we are now "children of God" (1 John 2:28) instead of "objects of wrath" (Ephesians 2:3) and we remember this verse from John: "I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand." (John 10:28-29)

"For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Romans 8:38-39)

"To him who is able to keep you from falling and to present you before his glorious presence without fault and with great joy—" (Jude 24)

So we can see God guaranteeing our salvation when we are SAVED.

But why do we still confess our sins even though we become Christians? It's because a sin is still a sin, and when we sin, our relationship with God would be affected, but it does not mean the relationship is broken. In fact if the person does feel sorrowful for his sins and he actually confesses to God, it shows that God has saved him.

I don't use the term "Once saved always saved" because there are some churches who teach that if you prayed that prayer, then you will be saved forever. In reality, you don't know if the person is really saved unless they actually repent and put their trust in the savior. I prefer the term "Perseverance of the Saints," but the concept is the same. If a person is TRULY saved, he WOULD NOT abandon the faith, and his FRUITS are evidence of his sound salvation, because God has done a work in his life. When we become Christians, we have the spirit of God which is the sign of our salvation and the work of sanctification is also from the Holy Spirit.

"being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus." (Philippians 1:6)

but how do you develop the faith required to be saved without living the life of a Christian?

You have to live like a Christian in order to truly become saved.... not the other way around... you don't just pray and have the faith all of a sudden.... you build your faith step by step by living like a Christian should and repenting when you make mistakes until your faith is strong enough to be saved.

In this way people who claim to be Christians (and are trying to be) can give up and backslide....

Yeah I don't agree with the 'once saved always saved'. Jesus says in the Gospel of John "I will never leave you nor forsake you," but that doesn't mean we can't forsake Him, and in the process the Spirit leaves us. But in other words to stress what I was saying earlier, in Hebrews 10:14 it reads: For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.

EDIT: sorry Hebrews 13:5- "I will never leave you nor forsake you."

geeogree : You are talking about process of sanctification. When we are converted, we are justified, and the holy spirit dwells in us as the sign that we are saved. Sanctification is the work of the holy spirit working in our lives and grow as a Christian, and to become more and more like Christ, but when we are converted, our souls are saved, but since we are still in our earthly bodies, the Holy Spirit affects the way we live, so that we can be shown that we are part of God.

I do believe that many of those who "backslide" are in reality, false converts. They may have "prayed the prayer" as a child, came up to the alter, etc, but they were never born again and did not repent and put their trust in the savior. So in reality, their hearts were never regenerate.

Jesus said that you will know them by their fruit. The fruit is an indication if someone is saved or not, but the fruit does not save us.

So it starts from conversion. When God saved you, the holy spirit would start a work in your life and go through a life of continuous sanctification.

Preacher Paul Washer said this: "an ongoing, not a flu shot...'done, did that'. No, the evidence that you 'done, did that', is that you are still doing it."

"We have assurance that we come to know, not just because we one time repented, but that we are continuing to repent today, and it's not that one time we believe, but that you continue to believe today, and it is not that one time we walk with Him, but that we are continue to walk with Him today."

play4fun : no I'm not talking about sanctification.... I'm talking about the process of gaining enough faith to be saved.

Well faith is what we have to assure us that we are saved. As far as building up the faith, if you edify the Spirit with things of the Spirit-- reading the Bible, fellowship with other Christians, etc. then you mortify the flesh.

When you actually have faith, the effects are huge.

"Because you have so little faith. I tell you the truth, if you have faith as small as a mustard seed, you can say to this mountain, 'Move from here to there' and it will move. Nothing will be impossible for you." (Matthew 17:20)

And we see so many instances that faith in Jesus brings those to healing, both physical and spiritual wounds (forgiveness of sins). The centurion, the men who brought the paralytic on a mat, the sinful woman who anointed Jesus with perfume, even a woman was healed just by touching Jesus.

The entire Hebrews 11 talks about those of faith, Abraham was justified through his faith in God (Romans 4)

So if you have faith in God, you trust in God's work of salvation, that is enough. God does all the rest, including the change in you.

Obedience is a response from our conversion, because being a Christian is someone who loves Christ, and Jesus gave the command that "If you love me, keep my commandments" That is showing who really loves Him. If we do love Him, we would be willing. So it is still a matter of whether the person is saved or not.

I think I heard somewhere that the sins of the father are passed to the son? (It could be the reverse of that where they are not). But if I got the verse right (I believe it is said in the Bible, you'll have to help me on this).

Isn't then that people who are worshiping God (I won't say Jesus, because I don't believe that Jesus and God are the same, not bashing anyone who does but that is my belief) under a pastor or even high priest or to take it to the extreme for Catholics the Pope, who is sinning (you've heard the scandals that go on, even if not all are true if one is true the implications are grave), then those sins are passed down as they are a father of sorts to their sons (the congregation).


The next question I have is concerning false idols. I have been to quite a few churches and from what I have seen, Jesus is portrayed as a Caucasian male with a long beard and blue eyes, now seeing as no one has a picture of Jesus and that people pray to Jesus while looking at this picture and consciously or un-consciously having it in their heads. Doesn't that construe as worshiping something that is false?

Mabus : "the sins of the father are passed to the son" Ummm...I don't recall that specifically listed in the Bible...although we can see examples of that happening in the Bible (linage of Kings of Israel, etc) and conceptually it would make sense sometimes because if the father leads the family into sin, they would be living under an environment of sin, but it is not a concrete "will happen" type of thing being written in the Bible. (I really don't think it is in the Bible. The only conceptual topic that I found concerning the Bible is "does the son bear the sins of the father?" Anyone else want to help me with this?)

Anyways, that would not be true for pastors, elders, deacons or whoever leads a church. These roles are not seen as fathers, but as servants and shepherds.

And we said so before, everyone sins and is corrupted by sin due to the fall, so it isn't a big deal if it is true. It is still point out the fact that all have sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God. (Romans 3:23) Sooo, in a sense, yeah, it is passed on, not a specific sin, but sin in general is the curse that continues on to everyone in all generations.

As for the idol question, I might need a little more info. but if the church is saying that Jesus IS a Caucasian male with a long beard and blue eyes...then that would be a false perception. I don't think anyone would know that specific of a description other than what type of person He is and the specifics of His birth. With that said, I don't think praying while visioning what Jesus is like does not mean idolatry...I think saying that he has to look like this, when the Bible does not say anything about it is wrong. Idolatry of the mind is specifically having a wrong conception of God or putting something other than God your main focus.

BTW, what background are you? and why do you not believe that Jesus is God? I suggest to go to these thread to state what you think: https://www.vizzed.com/vizzedboard/thread.php?id=13923 and https://www.vizzed.com/vizzedboard/thread.php?id=10938

Mabus : Exodus chapter 20 lists the Ten Commandments, verse 4 reads, You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or in the water under the earth. So making an image of Jesus would be in regard to making an image that is in heaven. Verses 5 & 6 read, You shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the LORD your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate Me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments."

"Visiting the iniquities of the fathers upon the children"... apart from the teaching of the Bible, it is a fact which observation attests, that, in diseased constitutions, dishonored names, and broken fortunes, the physical consequences of the sins of parents are entailed upon their posterity.

On another note, I agree with what play4fun said, "Anyways, that would not be true for pastors, elders, deacons or whoever leads a church. These roles are not seen as fathers, but as servants and shepherds." The Bible does state, 'To whom much is given, much is required.' As a teacher of a church you're responsible before God for what you teach and for your actions portrayed before the church. If the teacher makes a mistake in one of these regards then the teacher would have consequences from God and the church could be affected, it depends on the person or persons. But if the teacher sins privately or apart from the church then the sin might be inadvertently passed to the church, but not automatically. We each shall give an own account before God and each are responsible for our own sins.

bigNATE : Don't go telling off people like that. This is a forum for debate. If you want to be a jackass, be my guest, but do it somewhere else. Just because he doesn't agree with your beliefs doesn't mean that you get the right to tell him he's wrong. Same goes with what you did with Metal. Seeing your modding performance for what it really is makes me sorely regret my decision for voting for you to be a moderator.

Rasenganfan2 : I would like to defend BigNATE on this...

I'm looking at BigNATE's comments and I don't see anywhere does he try to act like a @%@$#%@ (insert whatever you want here, since I don't want to use the word that you used). Is he a tad bit aggressive? maybe. But I do not see it anywhere that shows he is trying to insulting or attacking someone. All he told Metal is that what he said is not a Christian belief, and that is what the rest of us are saying. Not even close. That goes the same with DarkHyren, that is what Christians believe.

Also the whole point of a debate is to support your side and show the other side why they are wrong. Soooo...yeah, he does have a right to tell him to be wrong. Because this is not a sharing opinion forum, this is a debate forum.

You said that this is a forum for debate. Well, since you are here, let's debate. You're not just here to comment on a moderator's performance, are you?

What do you believe happens after someone dies?

thanks tRIUNE for that clears up a lot





play4fun : now from what tRIUNE posted any image of god should be blasphemy. Even if it is in the old testament it should still be valid such morals as the ten commandments hold true even if the wording is... off in this modern time.

It seems that this Holy Trinity thing is a loophole to get around the fact that God doesn't want you worshiping anything else. If Jesus is God then worshiping Jesus is still worshiping god. That I cannot buy as Jesus is Jesus and God is God. One is omnipotent and all powerful and never ending and one was human/mortal and died on a cross (even if he came back he died).

That aside what you also said was that holding an image of Jesus in your mind while praying (an image that has no factual basis on what Jesus may have looked liked and indeed would be quite odd in the area where he was born) was okay, I want to delve into that deeper. If God understands that while I may hold this image of Jesus in my mind, and prays and it is okay, then why do I need organized religion in the first place. If God knows that I accept Him (I hate using 'Him' because should be God above the weakness of gender) and live my life, whether or not I go to church or read a book should not matter because God is all knowing and knows I've accepted Him truly. What is your view on that?

Mabus : thank you for the questions.

Yeah I do not think that that commandment is invalid in our time. Moral law still stands in all time because God does not change in terms of morals.

That being said, I think if we in our minds what Jesus might look like during the time of his appearance, I don't think it's blasphemy unless if you say HE HAS to look like that. There are people make films about Jesus and they would have to make out what Jesus might look like, but they do not say that Jesus DOES look like it. So when you pray, I think if you are perceiving Jesus, I don't think it's idolatry.

tRIUNE, you got anything to clarify?

Mabus, look at the threads that I have linked to you. I want you to take a look at some of the reasons why Jesus is God, including scriptural references. If you have more questions about that, you ask again here. But I will give one point: would you call Jesus a liar, a lunatic, or Lord? (Because he cannot be just a good moral teacher)

As for your third part, praying has nothing to do with whether you have accepted him or not. I think the statistic is that around 90% of Americans pray to God.

God is all knowing, and he knows that Man's heart is deceitfully wicked (Jeremiah 17:9), so you are not right with God because of all our sins. The good news is that Jesus died on the cross to pay the punishment for your sins, and if you repent and put your trust in Jesus (born again), then you are made right with God.

If we look at the beginning of Bible time, it is not planned to be organized, but because Christians want to worship God, that they gather and form house churches and worship; because the Christians want to know about God and be fed spiritually, that they want to read scripture, God's Word. People see it to be like organized religion because people are going to churches and reading the Bible. The fact is, when we are finally born again, God create in us a new heart with new desires, that things that you once loved that God hated, you now hate, and the things that are evil and sinful that God hates that you used to love, you would hate.

So people go to church not because they are organized to do so, but because they WANT to go to church and worship God.

If you are not born again...you are not right with God.

play4fun : Fair enough. I was calling what he said to DarkHyren him being a jackass. Yeah, this is a debate forum, but flat out saying he's wrong about his personal beliefs is a bit too far. I mean, he could've said "Well, I think that what you said was wrong", but he pretty much said "you're wrong".

Now then. On to what I believe. I'm no Christian, but my beliefs are generally rooted on the Christian foundation. I'm not Religious, but rather spiritual. The difference is that I don't babble about the bible 24/7 (no offense to anybody, I'm just trying to explain the difference) like some people, but I strongly believe in God, angels, and spirits. I believe that where we go after dying depends on various things. You see, I believe life is a test. We pass, we go to Heaven. We fail, we gotta take it again. I also believe Earth is Hell. Evil always seems to get away. Innocent people who have never done anything terrible die brutal deaths. I also don't believe in 1 source of ultimate evil. There probably was, at some point. I think that said source has since split into multiple sources of lesser evil.

Mabus: You know, it's interesting that for what's written in the Bible, God never chose to reveal to us what Jesus looked like. At least one of the apostles could have given us a physical description of Him, right? There's not a single physical description of Him in the Bible except the one in the book of Revelation, which is a symbolic depiction of Jesus with hair like wool and eyes like flaming fire. I think I recall somewhere in the Bible that Jesus had a beard, but don't quote me on that.

The greatest artists throughout history have tried to portray how Jesus might have appeared, but they're all misdirected. God didn't give us a picture because He knew our tendency to gravitate towards idols, pictures, and things instead of the true and living God. There's something in us that wants tangible objects that we can touch. If we can't touch it, we then make some kind of image and imagine it represents God. Soon enough we're bowing before the representation of Him--that looks alot like idolatry to me.

Well we don't have any real descriptions of the physical Jesus. But we can still see Him, well not physically. If God were to roll away the heavens right now, poke His face through and say, "Hello, how are you? I'm God," no doubt we would all drop dead on the spot, it would be overwhelming. But in a real sense we can see Jesus. The apostle John related this to us when he said, "That which we have seen and heard we declare to you, that you also may have fellowship with us; and truly our fellowship is with the Father and with His Son Jesus Christ. And these things we write to you that your joy may be full" (1 John 1:3-4). John's wording in the original Greek text, "that which we have seen," could be rendered literally, "what we still see in our mind's eye." Well, personally I don't see imagining in you mind what Jesus looks like as idolatry so to speak. But it's really a false depiction because it's just speculative.

Well what I'm saying is John said, "Yes, we had the privilege of walking and talking with Jesus, but you can know Him in a personal way just as we did." All of history hinges on Jesus Christ. Who is He? What did He do? Why did He come? How should we respond to Him? What we believe about Jesus not only has a profound effect on the way we live today, but as the Christian Bible states, seals forever our eternal destiny. Thus it is crucial that we have a clear answer to the question Jesus Himself asked in Matthew 16:15, "Who do you say that I am?" Well to help us answer this question, the Bible says in Philippians 2:5-8, Let this be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a servant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.





*Well I edited it because I originally misspelled Mabus, tried to fix it and logically it still didn't highlight in the edit.

Rasenganfan2 : I will not criticize you, but may I ask for the basis of your spirituality?

play4fun : Why is it so needed to know what I believe in. Is it the duty of Christians to save the souls of non-believers? Is that why you need to know where I stand in my views. I see in you a resolve that nothing anyone says will have you question because you have all the answer you want in the Bible. So I am going to stop posing questions as it is like trying to debate with a man who has no ears. Your way of looking at the Bible and Christianity seems quite different than others, maybe you are Catholic and believe that you are not Christian? I have heard this quite a few times.

That last thing I will pose to everyone here is, what good is having faith in something if you never question in? For without questioning your faith you are truly blind. Why do I say this because if you truly believe, that belief will only be made greater but if you doubt and slip you'll then know that you never truly did believe but were only lying to yourself.

Hoochman : Oh, you don't have to say you won't critize me, just don't do it. Now then, would you please explain your question better? I don't quite get it.

Mabus : The reason that I want to know your background of what your beliefs are is because I don't want to come of judging what you really believe in or who you are without knowing either how you are raised or any experiences that you encountered. If I just came up and said to you that reincarnation does not happen....when you are not a hindu, it would sound rather offensive, because I would be insinuating that you have that background when you don't. Sometimes if the person is a Christian but has a small misunderstanding of a certain doctrine, and if I immediately assumed that the person is not a believer, then it would be offensive. It would be judging through appearance and not by what they really believe. I ask that so that I can avoid that and so that we can see all sides of the picture.

"Is it the duty of Christians to save the souls of non-believers?" Actually this is another purpose for the thread: it is to share the gospel to those who may not have heard it complete or make sense to them. If Christians love God and love others, they would be willing to tell the truth to others, about the truth of the gospel. That is the Great Commission that Jesus gave in Matthew 28.

And I don't have all the answers, it would be arrogant to say so, and there are some things that God does not choose to reveal through God's Word. But a Christian understands that there is a source of authority, and that is from God's Word, the Bible. So if you have questions about Christianity, our answers would have to be based from the Bible, so that we would not be making stuff up for you.

"Your way of looking at the Bible and Christianity seems quite different than others,"
That is kinda sad to hear that, but I'm kinda not surprised...American Christianity has been affected by comfort, soft view of the gospel, lack of thought (emphasis on truth) and lack of action (showing God's love to nonbelievers) Americanized churches focus so much on getting more people to come to church, that they try to soften the gospel so that it would sound appealing to the public, but we should focus on giving the whole truth, and the decision of whether you believe in it or not is yours, but we need to at least be clear what Christians really believe.

Don't worry, I think all of us are commenting here with an open mind, but if there is something that is not true, we should comment about it. This is a place for you to ask questions about Christianity, and we are just answering it. The owner approves of this thread.

One more thing, and I think I can say this for every Christian who has been answering questions here. At some point, we all question our faith...some more than others, some happen younger than others, and some might struggle more than others. But I know that those who are truly saved and truly understand the gospel, and believe and trust in God, then even in doubt, they will come to Him and hold on to Him. And Christians know this, that God's Word would not disappoint.

This thread's purpose is share the truth of the gospel to those who read it, and to answer questions that have been answered through the study of the Bible. This is a team effort by all Christians to answer these questions to those who want seek the truth. This is also a team effort because if one of us said something wrong, other Christians can peer review it and show the error through scripture.

So if you seek truth, ask a question.

"'What is truth?' Pilate asked." (John 18:38)

This is what Jesus said a few chapters before it.

"Jesus answered, 'I am the way and the TRUTH and the life." (John 14:6a)

Mabus says: "That last thing I will pose to everyone here is, what good is having faith in something if you never question in? For without questioning your faith you are truly blind. Why do I say this because if you truly believe, that belief will only be made greater but if you doubt and slip you'll then know that you never truly did believe but were only lying to yourself."

Every Christian has had to make the choice to receive Christ, for some it's an instantaneous decision and for some it requires extra questioning. But all have had to question the faith in the first place before they accepted it. As Christians, we believe that when we did accept it that it was a response to the actual calling of God. I say this because our conscience bears witness to our minds in regard to His calling, which is hearing His Word from the Bible, this is what we call faith; the substance of things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen. Jesus said, "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him" (John 6:44).

Some had to struggle with their conscience more than others, and at some point in the Christian's life he or she is going to question if they are really saved by God. But since they received Christ by hearing God's Word in the first place, but have doubts about it, the solution is to go back to the Word. The Word says this, He who believes in the Son of God has the witness in himself; he who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed the testimony that God has given of His Son. And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God (I John 5:10-13).

If you have enough faith in the first place to receive Christ, then you have the faith required to be reassured of it. Our faith has its resolve because we have the Spirit of adoption by whom we cry out, "Abba, Father." The Spirit Himself bears witness with our spirit that we are children of God... (Romans 8:15,16). Some people wonder if their faith is strong enough to save them. These people miss the point. It is Jesus Christ who saves, not our feelings or actions, and He is strong enough to save us no matter how weak our faith is. Jesus offers us salvation as a gift, because He loves us, not because we have earned it through our powerful faith. What then is the role of faith--for the Christian, faith is believing and trusting in Jesus Christ; reaching out to accept His unmerited gift of salvation. Because God loves us, this faith is effective whether it is great or small because it exalts what God has done, not what we have done.
*Well in other words it's based on our relationship with God, not our performance for God.

Rasenganfan2 : Well, what I mean is where do you get your spirituality if you are no Christian and do not read the bible and are not religious. Would you be a non religious Christian?

Rasenganfan2 says "On to what I believe. I'm no Christian, but my beliefs are generally rooted on the Christian foundation. I'm not religious, but rather spiritual."

Well this statement is the general idea of Christianity. But what matters is if you have a right relationship with God. Here's what the Bible says in regard to this, Therefore lay aside all filthiness and overflow of wickedness, and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls. But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror; for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was. But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does (James 1:21-25). Believers who hear the word of God must receive it with a teachable spirit, applying it to their daily lives. To hear and not obey is to be deceived. Thus it is important to know what the Bible says, but it is much more important to obey it.

Now on to the statement of "I'm not religious, but rather spiritual," this makes sense because Christianity isn't a religion. In fact, it's the opposite of religion. Religion tells us mankind can reach God through works. Christianity tells us mankind can never reach God thorough works. Religion tells us of man's endeavor to reach God. Christianity is God reaching down to us. "For God so loved the world He gave His only begotten Son" (John 3:16). One day the people asked Jesus, "What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?" Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent (John 6:28-29). Our works can't bring us into a relationship with God.

Thus Christians aren't religious, but rather spiritual, if indeed they have a right relationship with God by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and trust in God's provision for their sin through faith in Jesus *God's provision, through faith in Jesus, for their sin. If we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:7-9). If we believe in this forgiveness then we should have the desire to walk in the light as He is in the light which is repentance, and humility before Him.

*Well in other words the repentance and humility isn't what saves us, but if we are saved then it should be our desire to have repentance and humility before Him.

*Raseganfan2 also says, "Evil always seems to get away."
Why does God allow evil?

Hoochman : Well that's a good question. I wouldn't be a non-religious Christian, since my beliefs borrow from many other religions and my own beliefs. I believe in spirits who still roam the earth, angels, God, Jesus, heaven, the whole thing. I just believe in it in my own special, unique way.

Anyway, I'm terrible at this kinda stuff, so... I'm just gonna go...

Rasenganfan2 : It's ok. We can still talk about it.

Anyways, you said before that you believe earth is hell...so I was wondering where you think Hitler would go when he dies?

Also, with you believing in something in your own special way, do you think there is a possibility that you could be wrong about your beliefs?

play4fun : Actually, I was trying to get out of this thread, but...

Well, I guess Hitler would be reincarnated. Who knows, maybe God had special plans for Hitlet after all the people he killed in cold blood. Sure, he himself may not have directly killed people, but he killed thousands indirectly.

What's to say that Christianity is right, either? Same goes with Judiaism, or however it's spelled, Hinduism, Budaism, etc.. Nothing. So, in that since, who's to say I'm wrong either? I guess we'll find out what's true and what's false when we pass, won't we? This isn't to say that I'm right, but just to say that we all may be wrong.

Rasenganfan2 : Actually, you can. You look at the claims from these religions, and if you research these claims, you can make a decision by yourself on whichever one is right or not. That is why I asked you about that worldview that you have. Christianity made a claim that they are right, so you should look into the claims and see if they are true or not.

What is really important is knowing what isn't the message of Christianity so that you could not be easily deceived.

It seems to me that groups that claim to be Christian, and members who claim to be Christian, can't agree exactly on what Christianity is then why is it your or anyone else's right to tell us and everyone else what the message of Christianity is. You don't represent me or other Christian members on this board, or what we believe about Christianity. I'm closing this thread. If you can come up with a "main message" that is compatible among more of us then you can post that....

As for this thread:

(EDITS): Taken out the Q and As because this forum already has plenty of them.

Also, for those who want explanations from different websites:
The visual version of this description:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6t0s7fpg1M

A Video illustration about God's judgment on "good" and bad people:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrLzYw6ULYw

A simple visual explanation of Christianity:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ut-UOhY0s8E

Links from websites about Christianity:
GotQuestion.org:
http://www.gotquestions.org/Christianity.html
Christianty.com:
http://www.christianity.com/Christian%20Foundations/The%20Essentials/11616655/
CARM (Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry):
http://carm.org/what-is-christianity

Continue to ask questions about Christianity. There are people who can answer these questions about Christianity.