The Arwing has gone through a few redesigns,
but which one do you like the most?


For me, it has to be the Star Fox 64 version.
I'm not entirely sure why. I just think that it's
the most fitting in a way.

I would easily say the Star Fox 64 Ar-wings were the best. Star Fox Adventure made the Ar-wing seem so...bland, so lame. Star Fox Assault made them look like there was a lot more to them when there wasn't and made them look bulky, not very aerodynamic, at east in my eyes. The Star Fox 64 design does make them look the best.

A ship doesn't need to look like its insanely complex to be so. One of my strong answers for the Star Fox 64 version being because you have a first-person view mode in that game which allows you to get a look at the controls within the Ar-wing where no other game does that (which was disappointing in Star Fox Assault).

zerothesaint :

Yeah, I wish that Assault had the first person view.
The Landmaster needs it as well.


I think that you put my finger on why I like
the N64 Arwing the most.

Cause it's aerodynamic and not
overcomplicated. The one in adventures
didn't look like a ship would.

I also really like the Arwing from Star Fox 2.
It can change into a walker while inside enemy
motherships and while on planets.

Sword legion : You know, now that you mention the Ar-wings from Star Fox 2, those ones in particular with the walking ability is the reason why I muse the idea that the Star Fox team have special Ar-wings sort of like how Wolf pulled out the Wolfen 2's in Star Fox 64.

I like to believe that those Ar-wings in the beloved SNES sequel are Fox's special occasion vehicles for ground/air/space warfare during dire conflict. Since there isn't such a span of time mentioned between the first and second game it could always somehow be assumed Andross got back on his feet quicker than thought and had lots of reserve plans (like the Motherships, planetary missiles, and Mirage Dragons) if the initial invasion didn't go through the first time. 

Again, that's just something I would like to believe and such and I wish they went through and finished Star Fox 2 instead of cancelling it, at least we have a Beta on here. But that aside if they could incorporate these Ar-wings in another Star Fox game that could change a lot. I wouldn't say it would make Landmasters useless though, (if that question comes to mind when reading this), they have their purpose on rougher terrain and his harder when it needs to count. 

And I 100% agree with you on the Landmasters having a first person view. That in itself would be amazing, especially if they do it like they did in Star Fox 64 with the control panel and such. Make us feel like we ACTUALLY ARE the pilot of the vehicle.

zerothesaint :

In the N64 era, every Nintendo game was becoming realistic.
Even Mario, would skid if he was running and suddenly turned around.

Now Mario games have no idea of what real physics are like.

I miss the days when Nintendo went for realism and gave us
a first person view for Arwings. At least your wings will still break off.

Does your ship still unbalance when you lose a wing in Star Fox Command and Assault?
I love the feel of me actually being the pilot myself.

Would have to agree with what you said about Andross having army reserves
in case of failure. And those Wolfen IIs are plain Awesome.

I had to to put the Arwing Walkers in my Star Fox RPG.
And yeah, if the stats are different enough, then the walkers wouldn't ruin
the Landmaster. I would personally make the Landmaster faster, and have stronger shots.
But the Walker Arwing (I think that the official name is the Arwing MK2) could turn faster
than the Landmaster and would have better acceleration. The normal Arwing  (the Arwing MK1)
Couldn't transform into a walker, but would have better air stats than the Arwing MK2. I would also
make it so that the Arwing MK2 had only walker mode and all-range mode. The Arwing MK1 would
have all-range mode and speed travel mode.

There, now we need to hack it into Star Fox Assault.

I think that the Wolfens look better in later star Fox games than they did in Star Fox 64.

I would say that the Star Fox team may have above average Arwings.
look at how many hits they can take when compared to other fighters.

Plus, in Star Fox 64, only three types of fighters have double lazer blasters.

Bill Grey's Lead Cornerian Fighter.

Arwings  (only Fox's Arwing?)

Wolfen II

Star Fox 64, no doubt. I don't know why, maybe because it's a bit more graphically inclined, maybe because it's the first Star Fox game I've ever played. Either way, I loved the design in this game the most. I've played all of them after finding this one, but this one is just beautiful for a reason I can't find.

Sword legion : Indeed, it very much sucks that realism seems to be scarcely used these days, I too miss it. 

As for Star Fox Assault and Command, the wings can and will break in Assault but he fricken things are flimsy as all heck and break so easily. You hardly notice they're gone until Fox starts flying at a tilted angle! As for Command, I don't remember, I would assume so though. But I have to say that the Star Fox 64 Arwings were way more sturdier than the later games. 

That's awesome that you included the MKII's in the RPG. And I agree with you on stat differences and the improvements to the Landmasters would be a welcome from God himself. Though the only conflicting issue is with Star Fox Command's Arwings being the "Arwing II". But I don't count DS games as a huge part of the series, so meh. 

Back to Assault, yes, the Wolfens did look better and they had a unique look. I noticed how they have resembling arwings until the Wolfen II's come out on Venom. As for the standard arwings used for the Fox team, they are above average. They have higher shielding than most ships and can take a lot more punishment. But of course power and such is lowered for the shielding output but can be improved with that little laser bonus.

And yes, funny thing about the twin laser deal. They are the only ones to use twin lasers but I think the rest of the Star Fox team COULD use twin lasers if they got that upgrade but they just stick to single shots I guess.

To back up my stats about the Arwings, here's this little article on them from different games. This here shows that shielding for the Star Fox team is higher than most other ships. 

LINK: http://starfox.wikia.com/wiki/Arwing

goodboy :

I couldn't tell you why I liked the Star Fox 64 design either until
zero here put it into words.

zerothesaint :


Oh, it's Arwingpedia, I spend quite a bit of time there myself.

Ever wondered why the Conerian starfighters only took two hits
in Star Fox 64?

The Cornerian Starfighters only take two hits in Star Fox 64 because
Corneria mass produced them to quickly meet the threat that Andross
brought about.

Here is the Sheild generator type to the Arwing:
G-Diffusion - Arwingpedia, the Star Fox wiki - Star Fox 64, Adventures, Assualt, and more

  It's a G-diffuser.

Sword legion : I can't lie, but I always figured it went something like that. Andross' sudden attack happened and Corneria wasn't ready so all their fighters just weren't suited with the proper equipment, at least not until the final days of the war in Star Fox Assault. And I did look into the G-diffusion system some time ago. I always wondered what it was Fox mentioned to check before the first stage. Its an amazing thing I have to say. It is so powerful enough for a propulsion system, shielding, and controls gravitational shifts and issues with acceleration. 

But despite the mass production issues at least Corneria got it together by the beginning of Assault to finish off Andross' reserve soldiers. At least then they had the adequate fire power and ships to defend themselves. Even then though, Corneria can't do everything alone, they just don't have the extreme trained pilot skills that the Star Fox team possess.

I have to say the biggest thing about Star Fox, the amazing story they throw together without adding too much or too little to make it suck, is the Arwings themselves. As someone who has a fascination in tech and taking on a computer science major in college, I love to know how things work. Even if they aren't in my field of learning. I've always been blown away by the theories of how the arwings can fly, their internal engineering, and their weapon systems. It may be a fictional universe but imagination and reality collide at times and really makes you think about things.

zerothesaint :
Sword legion :

The wings break off in Assault, but NOT in Command.

In Assault, you won't see it much until you turn on Gold Difficulty. Dear god, those things are flimsy on that difficulty, and it's VERY noticeable on the last mission, where any lost wings pretty much mean you will not beat the boss due to the instant drop back to your base laser the moment you lose either one. It's the primary reason why I have not succeeded a Survival mode no death run. And it doesn't help at all that Fox's Arwing has a massive change in his Y position when both wings are gone, to the point where the Arwing, when left untouched, eventually glides to the top or bottom of the screen from the instability of the aircraft. It makes maneuvering the narrow corridors of the Aparoid Homeworld, especially the hexagon grid barriers and fans/doors, extremely difficult when it's already next to impossible without memorizing the level.

tl;dr: In Assault's Gold Difficulty, losing your wings = you may as well restart the entire level on a non-ground mission, it messes you up that badly.

In Command... every aircraft has its own weapon from the start. Fox starts with the base laser (though some paths allow Fox to get the twin laser or the blue twin laser), Leon has a weapon that only attacks with lock on, Panther has possibly the best weapon in the game with his Zapper (one shot every second, but two shots missiles), and James McCloud, in the one mission you can play as him in starting on turn 5 or so, starts with a twin laser, to name a few examples. Because there are no laser powerups in the game outside of multiplayer, the breaking of wings was removed from this game. (Multiplayer removes your laser upgrade on death, before you respawn.) So with the exception of parts of the story having one of your comrades (usually Slippy) upgrade Fox's weapon, what that aircraft has is what you get. Can't be downgraded from losing wings because you can't lose wings, can't be upgraded from finding pickups because those don't exist in single player.

tl;dr: In Command, weapons are set by pilot. Wings cannot be broken, so weapons can't be downgraded, but there are no pickups, so weapons cannot be upgraded unless it's Fox and you've taken set paths in the story.


Now to actually answer the thread. James McCloud, Star Fox Command. The original Arwing. 'Nuff said.

sonikku :

I'm suprised that James's Arwing looks
like the one in Assualt, and not the N64 model.

Is he still alive? And did he get it upgraded?

Sword legion : That, I do not know. He shows up in one mission, on Venom, where you start with only three pilots. It's the only Venom mission that starts with three pilots, and he shows up early if you clear all the bases before turn 5 but without dialogue. He says nothing after the boss falls, and simply disappears without a trace. Makes you wonder if they even knew the boss was there if you deliver the finishing blow with James and not the other three who are there. If you use another pilot while James is on the map, I do not believe he speaks to the other pilots. His mug pops up, but if memory serves, his dialogue box comes up with ... in some form. I don't know if he says anything or if the other pilots say anything when James shows up, but I do know there is an event when he shows. Unless you're trying to max your hit counter, though, you won't see it.

All I know is that James has the original Arwing model. Maybe the Assault versions were the intended original versions, and Slippy found the plans (or finally got the chance to build them) after their adventures on Dinosaur Planet. Basing this considering what happened to him in what technically would've been events prior to Star Fox on the SNES. His craft is better than Fox's, but really isn't too different. But I'm just theorycrafting at this point.

sonikku :
Sword legion :

As far as I would guess its just a little bonus thing that was decided to be thrown in. Since not very much is known about James for the most part I would guess they're just finding ways to make him an easter egg of some sort. I know in Star Fox Adventures with a specific cheat token a message from James is repeated to Fox about how he's proud f Fox and seeing that his son has become a strong leader and such. I guess for the most part he plays the role of a ghost in Command since there is no acknowledgement.

And with you being able to play as him, well that's just a little treat I guess. That's all I can really think of on the matter.

zerothesaint :

The only issue I have with the ghost theory: James is able to fight just like any other pilot. If he were a ghost, his craft would be damage immune, and his shots would also deal no damage, as far as logic and reality are concerned. Ghosts might be able to affect reality, but I don't think he'd be getting away with as much as he potentially can do. I do see where you come from, that it's just an easter egg, but that doesn't change the fact that he's there killing stuff like every other pilot, and it doesn't change the fact that he has the potential to be shot down like every other pilot. I've seen a number of theories about this, including one that says he's probably still alive, hiding on Venom somewhere. (Star Fox 64 potentially supports this with the hard path ending. Fox sees James's craft in the distance, which if you know where to look appears to be a shooting star in the distance that's there for a short period of time, though he's the only one to see it. Command would be the second time you actively see James in the game, though leaving a much larger footprint than he did in 64 where he just aids your escape from Andross's base.)

sonikku : I can see what you're saying for sure. I wouldn't deny the possibility he's alive, but what irks me is that no one really acknowledged him in Command so I was kinda confused on the whole ordeal and then just disappears. And I thought that myself with him living on Venom too but I also know the easter egg in the original Star Fox points in the direction of the "Black Hole" where Pepper says that's where James was last seen. So I mean theories can go all over the place, same thing with ghosts being able to affect reality and such. The whole thing is an odd situation. Maybe they just made James being able to get hit so it still feel like a game, you could still lose and all that or he's alive and the game designers and guys in the storyline are just screwing with us.. XD

But those are good points you make for sure. I would like to see more on James for sure..at this point its a waiting game. for now its just up for us with theories and speculation to make sense of things.

zerothesaint : As far as the Black Hole theory goes, while that might be supported, unless there's something in the manual for the SNES Star Fox that states this (and I never owned Star Fox, though I have borrowed a friend's copy of the game to play on my SNES before, so I've never had a chance to read the manual for it, so if you say it's in the manual, I'll believe it), the theory is broken based on the Black Hole Easter Egg being access by Fox, considering his teammates were Falco, Peppy, and Slippy and not Peppy and Pigma.

As for nobody acknowledging him... that's kind of an odd issue. Technically, as part of the storyline, nobody acknowledged him. You would be right on that. But your team isn't exactly silent either as James tears through bases. Even if they can't see him, even if they don't know who it is, they know *something* is helping them, and they're giving encouragement to him as a result. Perhaps behind the scenes they just agreed to never speak of this again. XD

sonikku : So I looked for a pdf file of the SNES Star Fox manual and it doesn't state ANYTHING about James. Which..is odd. But in te game when you reach the Black Hole, General Pepper shows up in dialogue. 

Here, to clarify what i'm saying, watch this till about..2:03. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBiyZnOGBK4

But again, its like Nintendo is changing their mind and stuff on it so its hard to come up with fully solid theories for the most part. And since there is no Star Fox 2, nothing was added o that about James until the 64 version where the intro says he's dead and then of course Star Wolf and co. make mentions about James' fate. Its kinda head spinning. 

zerothesaint : One issue, one contradiction.

Issue: How is Pepper able to talk to Fox when he's in a black hole that's brought him (temporarily) to another dimension when you can't do that with the warp that takes you to Out of this Dimension?

CONTRAdiction : As far as the 64 storyline goes, the setup happened after James and company reached Venom. Forget if it's the opening or the manual that says this (VC version has the manual, I think), but I know something did. The issue kinda falls in with this contradiction as well. If James vanished in the black hole, wouldn't Fox going into the black hole also constitute as him vanishing and Pepper losing contact with him like what happened with Out of this Dimension? And wouldn't they be able to pick up James's signal again once he emerged on the other side? (Peppy states in 64's intro that James was lost on Venom, so if the black hole theory is valid, he must have emerged at some point, meaning Pepper should've have contact with him again by the time he got to Venom.)

So many paragraphs today.