Title pretty much says it. The Supreme Court has voted down DOMA in a 5-4 vote. For those who don't understand what this means, same sex marriage is no recognized on a federal level. Before, states could legalize same sex marriage, but their marriage was not recognized by the federal government. If a same sex couple gets married in one of the states that legalized gay marriage, their marriage is now recognized on a federal level as well. Of course, this does not mean individual states have to legalize same sex marriage. That decision is still up to the states.

Personally, I was happy to see this. It is not quite there, but it is still going in the right direction of treating everyone as equal citizens. Though it is still going to take a long time for the mid-western and southern states to move in the direction. But at least the struggle is getting that much closer to ending. 

Its a start. It at least means that citizens employed by the federal government, such as the military can access the provisions. Same sex partners in the army weren't entitled to housing and childcare etc etc which is just ridiculous.

thenumberone : the Army does not recognize sane sex marriage, period. It is messed up, but still. 

thing1 : But if they have a federally recognized marriage, they would have to, being run by the federal government.

rcarter2 : You have a point. I might be getting out, but I can try to keep you updated if you would like.

Definitely feel the same as you, I'm happy and relieved. This is an important and first good step in trying to bring equality for all. This whole marriage situation is tricky for those who are really tied down by their religious values and ideas but in the end, if we can't give same sex couples the rights they deserve, what hope of equality is there left for others. Although I do think it will take many more years for there to be true equality, this is still something essential that was needed to head for that direction. It's quite sad that many other people don't feel happy about it and many more will keep fighting to bring this down, but now that the federal government has accepted it, I feel this will be empowering for same sex couples and that they will keep having more triumphs in the future.

slayerizedcarol : It will take years, yes. But the thing is, there is always going to be a group to discriminate. For the longest time, it was a fight for legal equality for African Americans. In the 60s-80s, it was women and the Jewish religion. During WWII, it was Japanese. During Vietnam, it was pretty much all Eastern Asians because they assumed they are all the same. Just a few years ago, there were issues with anyone with Middle Eastern heritage. Even longer than our granparents time up to now, it is homosexuals. When this is no longer really an issue, there is going to be another group of people that will go through this cycle. People just never learn. They don't realize that they are doing to this group as they did to African Americans 50 years ago. I just wonder who will be the next group to be discriminated

I think that any steps taken to improve equality for any group of people is a good step, this might help quell a lot of discrimination in the future, after all what is the point in free will if we are not free to show it. I think in the short term it could cause a spike in homophobic attacks and abuse but I think this will be overly publicised a which will cause unneeded fear and discomfort for people who are openly homosexual.

I am thrilled that the US has taken another step into equal rights for same-sex couples. I hope to see more and more states legalizing gay marriage in the future, and I hope that these positive steps to equality for all continue on.

rcarter2 : oh yeah definitely, I hear you on that. It's an ongoing cycle and there is always someone that will be targeted or used as a scapegoat by the dominant group that holds power. It's really sad to sound so negative about it but it's just the plain truth. It's mind blowing how after so many years of each group going through these constant struggles, we are in present 2013 and like you said, people just don't learn or become educated about these things.

It's going to continue to be difficult to break the cycle mostly because all of this discrimination is tied into so many things like the economy, religion, power, etc. Something that I feel will certainly help is to have more people in the government and other institutions that will be true representatives from various groups, such as members from the gay community . Without representation, I feel that many of us suffer from having the dominant group creating laws that will end up being beneficial only to them. Then again, just as you mentioned, there will always be another group of people that will be oppressed if we don't ever have a change of attitudes and values. It's really tough but we must keep raising our voices in order to be heard and to create change.

Just a little extra update here. it was also official decided by the federal government that Prop 8 should not have been voted on in the first place do to being unconstitutional as it infringed upon equal treatment of citizens. So Prop 8 in California is no longer held. A lot of people in California are outraged. They said that because it was a proposition voted on by the state, the federal government should not take it away from them. However, what they fail to see is that it isn't that they are taking something away from them per say. Prop 8 was unconstitutional, so it is something that cannot be legally voted upon by the state in the first place. Of course, a lot of people don't see it that way and just see it as an attack on them.

These rulings made me shed tears of joy! I have long held the stance that these laws are nothing more than an attempt to treat homosexuals as second class citizens--something that should be abhorrent to all American citizens and all civilized countries in general.

Prop 8 specifically made me happy. I remember the outrage when it passed, and participating in the protests right afterwards... yep, I was one of the thousands out there with signs marching down the street. Why? Because it was wrong for the law to pass. The old law had been struck down as unconstitutional, you can't just reword the law and pass it again! It would be like Alabama trying to pass racial segregation right after the Civil Rights Act of 1965 was passed saying that such a law was not allowed. The actual government of the State of California declared that it would not even defend the law when challenged because it was obviously unconstitutional... and that was when Republican Gov. Schwarzenegger was still in office!

What the SCOTUS did was actually just upholding the lower courts ruling by saying that there was no grounds for the SCOTUS to even hear the case... there are guidelines for bringing a case to the Supreme Court and because California would not defend the law, there was no legitimate appeal.

rcarter2 : Hmm. I'm a little confused.

From what I was told, the Supreme Court declined to rule on Prop 8 because there was no standing for one party to be in the lawsuit at hand.

Since the California Governor said that he wasn't going to challenge the lawsuit against Prop 8, there was nobody to defend Prop 8. Instead a private party, moved in to defend Prop 8 instead of the state (which is usually the one who is defending any law enacted by that state when it is challenged).

The Supreme Court said that the Private Party had no legal standing to be involved in the case since they are not the ones who were being involved in the case. This was the majority opinion by the Chief Justice, Scalia, Brayer, Kagan, Ginsburg. (I believe I got that correct as this was one of the few cases that was had a funny decision as it had a mix of conservative and liberal justices. Plus I know that Sotomayor, Thomas, Kennedy, and Alito were in the decenters.)


Elara : Pretty much what you said.

Pretty much that Supreme Court went around trying to rule on whether same-sex marriage is legal in states; but they still at least made the same-sex marriage legal in California (which was what I was betting on instead of a broad ruling).

I just have a strange feeling that there will now be an effort to make a Constitutional Amendment to outlaw same-sex marriages, now that the federal government must recognize same sex couples and they can't deny them benefits.

Its funny how butt hurth the supporters of the ban are getting.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-23116327

The passage there is suitable for putting as an example of irony, in the dictionary:

On Saturday the Alliance Defending Freedom, which supports the ban, filed the petition asking the Supreme Court to overrule the order by appeals court.

Its comedy, really.

Oldschool41 : Yes, but they simply were saying there was no legal standpoint and blah blah blah. But I never heard them label it as unconstitutional. Pretty much taking the chicken way out of it before. 

rcarter2 : I agree with you that the Supreme Court took the chicken way out. They dipped their toes in the water by ruling DOMA unconstitutional (or I should say just the section that said the Federal Government can't deny them benefits); but the court didn't want to get in the pool completely by also ruling on Prop 8.

Also you are correct that the Supreme Court didn't label Prop 8 unconstitutional. Since they declined to rule on Prop 8, the previous courts ruling (which is the Ninth Circuit Court) stands (which they also ruled it unconstitutional). But since the Supreme Court said that the Ninth Circuit Court error by saying that a Private Party had legal standing, then I believe the Trial Court's ruling would be the valid one.

Doesn't really matter thou as the Trial Court also ruled it unconstitutional.

Now lets see what happens after this ruling. Will more states legalize gay marriage after these rulings, or will they take a "half-step" by saying that they can have equal benefits.

Oldschool41 : Whether it is full plunge or a toe dip, I am happy either way. As long as there is tangible progress.

We are LOSING RIGHTS not GETTING THEM. While gay marriage becomes legal... privacy has become illegal. Everyone wants to "come out of the closet" and use their skin color and sexual preference to reap the rewards.

UFO : No offense, but you might want to explain...

1. How the Supreme Court striking down DOMA is a lose of rights.

2. How privacy is illegal and relate it to DOMA being struck down.

3. How does skin color relate to saying that someone is a homosexual.

After all this is a debate thread, so you need to explain your reasoning for an effective argument.