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01-14-23 01:56 PM
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The Bedrock of Reality Cannot Be Measured by Science

 

01-14-23 01:56 PM
MrKokoPudgeFudge is Offline
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Humans; we are quite the curious bunch. And because of this, we like to know if something is "true" or "false". However, I feel that we don't know exactly what can even be proven true or false, and we often miss the point of a lot of things.

One of the most prominent examples of this is religion. It is very often that someone will try to say that their religion is "right" or that another person's is "wrong", when in fact there is no empirical evidence for one way or the other, and having such logic in this context misses the point of religion. The point of religion is to provide a set of convictions to live by, and such notions of being "correct" is pointless in such a discussion; and sadly, this is lost on far too many people.

There are also other things that are impossible to prove. For example, in ancient Greece, there were debates in which neither side could prove the other false or theirs right, due to everyone having their own perspective. For example, if I were to argue to a Communist that Communism is evil and a failure due to it causing tyranny and mass famines, a Communist would just argue that it isn't real Communism, and it is just tyrants under the guise of Communism. Due to this now being a battle of semantics, neither side can prove the other false, or theirs right.

This kind of trouble with applying science to the humanities is much different than applying it to what it was made for; observations of the world. For example, if I say that the Earth revolves around the sun, that can be scientifically proven; or that all objects on Earth fall at 9.8 meters per second, that can also be scientifically proven. You can use empirical evidence to prove these kinds of things, but people, again, far too often miss the point, and try applying science for things it cannot effectively be used for.

I would like to hear any of your guys' views on the matter. Maybe I am just thinking too much, and spewing rubbish.
Humans; we are quite the curious bunch. And because of this, we like to know if something is "true" or "false". However, I feel that we don't know exactly what can even be proven true or false, and we often miss the point of a lot of things.

One of the most prominent examples of this is religion. It is very often that someone will try to say that their religion is "right" or that another person's is "wrong", when in fact there is no empirical evidence for one way or the other, and having such logic in this context misses the point of religion. The point of religion is to provide a set of convictions to live by, and such notions of being "correct" is pointless in such a discussion; and sadly, this is lost on far too many people.

There are also other things that are impossible to prove. For example, in ancient Greece, there were debates in which neither side could prove the other false or theirs right, due to everyone having their own perspective. For example, if I were to argue to a Communist that Communism is evil and a failure due to it causing tyranny and mass famines, a Communist would just argue that it isn't real Communism, and it is just tyrants under the guise of Communism. Due to this now being a battle of semantics, neither side can prove the other false, or theirs right.

This kind of trouble with applying science to the humanities is much different than applying it to what it was made for; observations of the world. For example, if I say that the Earth revolves around the sun, that can be scientifically proven; or that all objects on Earth fall at 9.8 meters per second, that can also be scientifically proven. You can use empirical evidence to prove these kinds of things, but people, again, far too often miss the point, and try applying science for things it cannot effectively be used for.

I would like to hear any of your guys' views on the matter. Maybe I am just thinking too much, and spewing rubbish.
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01-14-23 04:56 PM
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I absolutely agree with your point. Not only there are things which can't be empirically demonstrated, people sometimes consider themselves superior for possessing that "truth" over those who haven't yet grasped it.

Religion, like you mentioned, is the best example. Beyond the fact of which religion is right and which isn't, there's the fact of the many branches a single religion can have. Such branches exist simply because an enlightened individual interpreted the sacred teachings in a different way than the rest, and so started a movement proclaiming it as the right one. Just because they believe their opinion is the correct one and everyone else is wrong. I see some narcissism and/or superiority complex there, but well, to each their opinion.

There's also the fact of respecting opinions. Keeping the example of religion, we still see people insulting others for (not) believing, for living in a sinful way or whatever minutia. Just because you don't agree with a specific opinion or because you personally hate that opinion are you allowed to deploy such an attack. Everybody is free to have their own opinion, and no one can attempt to impose their own opinions over other individual's unless their arguments are scientific.

And let's not forget about all the skepticism existing right now. Terraplanism has been alive for centuries, but even worse movements are rising. Two years ago, there was an skeptic movement that stated the volcanic eruption in the Canary Islands wasn't a natural occurrence, when we've all learnt at school that said islands are of volcanic origin and that it's activity is far from silent. The best part was them trying to explain how could humans induce a volcanic eruption of such magnitude, I swear that for a lot less than that you earn a ticket to the closest asylum.

We have a saying here in Spain: a squirrel could travel across the country by hopping from idiot to idiot. Every year that passes it becomes clear it's actually true, because humanity has immersed itself in a war of wanting to hold the power of truth and share it with the rest of mortals, even when said power is unavailable.
I absolutely agree with your point. Not only there are things which can't be empirically demonstrated, people sometimes consider themselves superior for possessing that "truth" over those who haven't yet grasped it.

Religion, like you mentioned, is the best example. Beyond the fact of which religion is right and which isn't, there's the fact of the many branches a single religion can have. Such branches exist simply because an enlightened individual interpreted the sacred teachings in a different way than the rest, and so started a movement proclaiming it as the right one. Just because they believe their opinion is the correct one and everyone else is wrong. I see some narcissism and/or superiority complex there, but well, to each their opinion.

There's also the fact of respecting opinions. Keeping the example of religion, we still see people insulting others for (not) believing, for living in a sinful way or whatever minutia. Just because you don't agree with a specific opinion or because you personally hate that opinion are you allowed to deploy such an attack. Everybody is free to have their own opinion, and no one can attempt to impose their own opinions over other individual's unless their arguments are scientific.

And let's not forget about all the skepticism existing right now. Terraplanism has been alive for centuries, but even worse movements are rising. Two years ago, there was an skeptic movement that stated the volcanic eruption in the Canary Islands wasn't a natural occurrence, when we've all learnt at school that said islands are of volcanic origin and that it's activity is far from silent. The best part was them trying to explain how could humans induce a volcanic eruption of such magnitude, I swear that for a lot less than that you earn a ticket to the closest asylum.

We have a saying here in Spain: a squirrel could travel across the country by hopping from idiot to idiot. Every year that passes it becomes clear it's actually true, because humanity has immersed itself in a war of wanting to hold the power of truth and share it with the rest of mortals, even when said power is unavailable.
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01-14-23 05:53 PM
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As human beings we try to find answers to everything even things we do not understand. However, sometimes that is where we can get into trouble.

For example, I am a Scientists ( a meteorologist to be exact). Still the point being science tries to explain things. Scientists examine things and come up theories. In hopes we get the answer. However, can science explain everything. Despite what some may say the answer is now.

As thinking beings we come up with opinions. We develop strong believes about our opinions. This is were we also get into trouble. As lyrics to an old song goes they are right and everybody else is wrong. Let us think that for a moment. Here in the USA we are a deeply divided nation politically. The democrats believe their ideas are right and the republicans are wrong. The republicans believe they are right yet everybody else is wrong. As thinking beings we get convinced of ideas its part of our nature.

Some of these ideas actually get proven while some are just ideology or beliefs.

As human beings we try to find answers to everything even things we do not understand. However, sometimes that is where we can get into trouble.

For example, I am a Scientists ( a meteorologist to be exact). Still the point being science tries to explain things. Scientists examine things and come up theories. In hopes we get the answer. However, can science explain everything. Despite what some may say the answer is now.

As thinking beings we come up with opinions. We develop strong believes about our opinions. This is were we also get into trouble. As lyrics to an old song goes they are right and everybody else is wrong. Let us think that for a moment. Here in the USA we are a deeply divided nation politically. The democrats believe their ideas are right and the republicans are wrong. The republicans believe they are right yet everybody else is wrong. As thinking beings we get convinced of ideas its part of our nature.

Some of these ideas actually get proven while some are just ideology or beliefs.

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