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Censorship

 

07-12-17 04:55 PM
legacyme3 is Offline
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I'm tired of it. It extends everywhere, but it's especially pervasive here. One needs to look at so-called leaving threads, to see what's on display.

I'm not perfect, I made the same mistake in my youth, where I would edit a post, simply because, without really thinking about the consequences of my action. A lot of work can go into a post sometimes, and often times, it's these posts that get edited out, that have the most work put into them out of anything on the site.

Sometimes, not a ton of thought goes into a post, and that's fine. Sometimes, not a ton of thought goes into a "leaving post", and while I think that's kind of lame, it's also kind of fine, at least in my book. I'm not here to debate the rules (why leaving threads aren't allowed, I'll never truly understand. This is a site that is incredibly inactive, despite being in the middle of a TDV month. Beggars can't be choosers when it comes to activity. As long as they aren't disobeying a huge rule (like posting porn, flaming each other, or something "serious" in other words), I don't see why someone can't feel free to vent their frustrations as they leave.

As someone who has found Vizzed to be a sort of home away from home for nearly 7 years (in September it will be fully 7), I hate seeing it go so against the principles I once loved about it. And I hate that all the rules are buried under mountains of stickies, and apparently, all of these rules apply to every forum, ever, which makes no sense, considering they are in individual forums you might not frequent anymore (I had to dig for about 20 minutes to find the thread where it said "no leaving threads ever").

I was told to be wary, that over the next couple days, my forum could be used as a leaving thread forum, and to be honest, I don't care if it is, because my forum, while it exists within SITE rules, is a place where everyone is always free to say whatever the hell they want. And if for whatever reason you want to post about your frustrations and wanting to leave, but don't want to have the stigma of a closed leaving thread on your head, you can post here in the dump, as well.

I'm not fond of bullies, nor am I fond of having legitimate voices snuffed out, simply because those who would mute them cannot handle the truth, or the sincerity with which one was trying to help them. In these final words, are said truths that cannot ever be truly grasped, apparently. These posts tend to strip down something to its core, to explain why it is things are happening, and why the place is losing activity.

You'd think in a period of post drought, that the people responsible for trying to find a way to boost activity, would care.

I'm tired of it. It extends everywhere, but it's especially pervasive here. One needs to look at so-called leaving threads, to see what's on display.

I'm not perfect, I made the same mistake in my youth, where I would edit a post, simply because, without really thinking about the consequences of my action. A lot of work can go into a post sometimes, and often times, it's these posts that get edited out, that have the most work put into them out of anything on the site.

Sometimes, not a ton of thought goes into a post, and that's fine. Sometimes, not a ton of thought goes into a "leaving post", and while I think that's kind of lame, it's also kind of fine, at least in my book. I'm not here to debate the rules (why leaving threads aren't allowed, I'll never truly understand. This is a site that is incredibly inactive, despite being in the middle of a TDV month. Beggars can't be choosers when it comes to activity. As long as they aren't disobeying a huge rule (like posting porn, flaming each other, or something "serious" in other words), I don't see why someone can't feel free to vent their frustrations as they leave.

As someone who has found Vizzed to be a sort of home away from home for nearly 7 years (in September it will be fully 7), I hate seeing it go so against the principles I once loved about it. And I hate that all the rules are buried under mountains of stickies, and apparently, all of these rules apply to every forum, ever, which makes no sense, considering they are in individual forums you might not frequent anymore (I had to dig for about 20 minutes to find the thread where it said "no leaving threads ever").

I was told to be wary, that over the next couple days, my forum could be used as a leaving thread forum, and to be honest, I don't care if it is, because my forum, while it exists within SITE rules, is a place where everyone is always free to say whatever the hell they want. And if for whatever reason you want to post about your frustrations and wanting to leave, but don't want to have the stigma of a closed leaving thread on your head, you can post here in the dump, as well.

I'm not fond of bullies, nor am I fond of having legitimate voices snuffed out, simply because those who would mute them cannot handle the truth, or the sincerity with which one was trying to help them. In these final words, are said truths that cannot ever be truly grasped, apparently. These posts tend to strip down something to its core, to explain why it is things are happening, and why the place is losing activity.

You'd think in a period of post drought, that the people responsible for trying to find a way to boost activity, would care.

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07-12-17 05:17 PM
Eirinn is Offline
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I don't mean any disrespect here, I mean I understand your frustration, but there are some things I would like to say, if I may.

First, the leaving thread thing being sitewide wasn't our call -- it was David's. We're not trying to be tyrants, we're just honestly trying to do the best we can with the rules we have.

Second, how is this revealing the problem, when one of the voices you're referring to was essentially the administrator over the entire board when the decline in activity started? How do we end up placing that blame on the ones to come after him? The activity decline isn't rule or staff related, it's site related. There are too many issues that need worked out to point at one perceived issue and single it out as THE cause for problems.


I understand that you feel bullied because it's your friends that are leaving and in their last hours they clashed with the site authority and there's no way to legitimately be heard if you're below mod rank. I get it. Please try to see the whole picture though. We're mods of a, to be frank, dying forum. We're trying our best to pull the site back from the brink. Maybe we don't get it right all of the time, but I can look at the current team and say with confidence, for every wrong motive or personal idea we see amongst those ranks, I believe you can find three more genuine and sincere opinions that are meant solely for the good of the site. Maybe we aren't doing a perfect job, but we love this site and it's users, and we're trying our hardest to help it live.


I hope you take this for what it is: a well meaning and honest appeal to think about things from both sides, and not view us as the enemy, but rather a group of people trying desperately to accomplish exactly what you are -- saving this place we all love so much.

Best wishes, leggy.
I don't mean any disrespect here, I mean I understand your frustration, but there are some things I would like to say, if I may.

First, the leaving thread thing being sitewide wasn't our call -- it was David's. We're not trying to be tyrants, we're just honestly trying to do the best we can with the rules we have.

Second, how is this revealing the problem, when one of the voices you're referring to was essentially the administrator over the entire board when the decline in activity started? How do we end up placing that blame on the ones to come after him? The activity decline isn't rule or staff related, it's site related. There are too many issues that need worked out to point at one perceived issue and single it out as THE cause for problems.


I understand that you feel bullied because it's your friends that are leaving and in their last hours they clashed with the site authority and there's no way to legitimately be heard if you're below mod rank. I get it. Please try to see the whole picture though. We're mods of a, to be frank, dying forum. We're trying our best to pull the site back from the brink. Maybe we don't get it right all of the time, but I can look at the current team and say with confidence, for every wrong motive or personal idea we see amongst those ranks, I believe you can find three more genuine and sincere opinions that are meant solely for the good of the site. Maybe we aren't doing a perfect job, but we love this site and it's users, and we're trying our hardest to help it live.


I hope you take this for what it is: a well meaning and honest appeal to think about things from both sides, and not view us as the enemy, but rather a group of people trying desperately to accomplish exactly what you are -- saving this place we all love so much.

Best wishes, leggy.
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07-12-17 05:24 PM
RavusRat is Offline
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I literally said all of this on the vizzed discord chat in voice....So I'm in total agreement.

I understand people not wanting lots of leaving threads so that people can just spam them easily.... .I don't understand why you'd need to edit the post of the leaving thread if there's nothing offensive in it. Honestly its just disrespectful.

I just find it weird that leaving threads have this stigma.. That's all. 

Another thing is that not every user is vocal about their life.... If a user is leaving the site for some reason and they want to tell people so that they don't worry about them they can't because it's against the rules... Yes they could do it via PM, but it's really not the most efficient way to do so...

I have no issue with Mods enforcing rules at all. But there's a way to do it without being so disrespectful about it. 

Let people say what they want before they go... Close the thread.. and let it just disappear in time. 
I literally said all of this on the vizzed discord chat in voice....So I'm in total agreement.

I understand people not wanting lots of leaving threads so that people can just spam them easily.... .I don't understand why you'd need to edit the post of the leaving thread if there's nothing offensive in it. Honestly its just disrespectful.

I just find it weird that leaving threads have this stigma.. That's all. 

Another thing is that not every user is vocal about their life.... If a user is leaving the site for some reason and they want to tell people so that they don't worry about them they can't because it's against the rules... Yes they could do it via PM, but it's really not the most efficient way to do so...

I have no issue with Mods enforcing rules at all. But there's a way to do it without being so disrespectful about it. 

Let people say what they want before they go... Close the thread.. and let it just disappear in time. 
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07-12-17 05:57 PM
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While I can understand that leaving threads are not allowed for whatever reasons, we do have the right to say goodbye in some occasions. For example, if we have to leave because of good news, like happened with Singelli and her pregnancy, or when the user leaving is an old-timer. In those times, I'd at least say have it open for a period of time (24-48 hours) so people can post there, the thread creator has enough time to see it and reply if they want to, and then close the thread.

This has gone way too far. Editing the opening post and then trashing it was excessive. It's debatable whether or not it spurred drama, but even if it did I don't think that thread should have been treated like this. I'm not saying that not everybody has the right to do those threads, just that when you really have something to say you should be allowed to. The other threads that appeared were bulls*** because their creators weren't intent on leaving, were already in the shadows or simply made a very bad joke, but the original one was totally legit.

Muffin said it all: mods enforced the rules but ALSO were disrespectful. A person stays active for over a decade in a site, holding literally any position available except Owner and then he's not allowed to openly say he's leaving so the many people he has influenced and worked/bonded with can contact him via other means. Simply not.

Reasons like this is what makes people lose faith in the community, both for how the thread was treated and how others used it to joke around. We who read the now edited thread feel like joining the creator more than ever.

I'd write another line in an attempt to counter possible replies to me, but the people who would post those replies wouldn't read the whole post after all so I'm not wasting my time. Haters gonna hate.
While I can understand that leaving threads are not allowed for whatever reasons, we do have the right to say goodbye in some occasions. For example, if we have to leave because of good news, like happened with Singelli and her pregnancy, or when the user leaving is an old-timer. In those times, I'd at least say have it open for a period of time (24-48 hours) so people can post there, the thread creator has enough time to see it and reply if they want to, and then close the thread.

This has gone way too far. Editing the opening post and then trashing it was excessive. It's debatable whether or not it spurred drama, but even if it did I don't think that thread should have been treated like this. I'm not saying that not everybody has the right to do those threads, just that when you really have something to say you should be allowed to. The other threads that appeared were bulls*** because their creators weren't intent on leaving, were already in the shadows or simply made a very bad joke, but the original one was totally legit.

Muffin said it all: mods enforced the rules but ALSO were disrespectful. A person stays active for over a decade in a site, holding literally any position available except Owner and then he's not allowed to openly say he's leaving so the many people he has influenced and worked/bonded with can contact him via other means. Simply not.

Reasons like this is what makes people lose faith in the community, both for how the thread was treated and how others used it to joke around. We who read the now edited thread feel like joining the creator more than ever.

I'd write another line in an attempt to counter possible replies to me, but the people who would post those replies wouldn't read the whole post after all so I'm not wasting my time. Haters gonna hate.
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07-12-17 08:14 PM
Zlinqx is Offline
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This is going to be a combination of a response to your post with some more general stuff responding to concerns user seem to have with the staff currently because I have been planning to make a thread in the underground on this topic for a few days now.

Staring with what you brought up in this thread, I honestly find it kind of odd that you'd implicitly argue that leaving threads are in some sense a good thing or at least something we should allow because they boost activity. They only boost activity because of the resulting drama, in the long run I'm pretty sure they harm activity. While it's true that vizzed has dropped in activity (no one on or off staff who has been around denies that) I think the few new members that we do manage to attract are immediately put off by the threads saying something along the lines of "vizzed isn't what it used to be" or that you're leaving because of x and x reasons. For some people I can see the reason for why they'd make a leaving thread but for others it seems like they just want the attention/get a reaction out of people. Many could probably handle leaving without having to make a thread for it. People making leaving threads or threads activity, whatever good intentions they may have probably contribute more to the decline than they prevent it and contribute to toxicity within the community through the drama they often create. This is why they aren't allowed.

I don't see how it's censorship that leaving threads are disallowed across the forums, the way I understand it, the only reason that leaving threads are disallowed in your forum specifically is because that was supposed to be the only public forum where one would even think to bring that up. Making a leaving thread in IT or other rented forums is basically trying to circumvent the rules in my view not censorship. Rented forums are from what I understood, supposed to either have a specific theme that they follow for specific topics that don't fit within the main forums or in the case of some private forums for friends to hang out in, not be substitutes for the public forums as what has occured in IT right now. I also think 95% of people who would think to make a leaving thread are aware that they aren't allowed because they've usually been around for a long time.

Other than that I think Eirinn hit the nail on the head, all of us mods are also users who spend time on the site because we enjoy it. Because of that we make mistakes sometimes as our standing as users on the site might clash with the way we conduct ourselves as mods, But we love the site, none of us want to see it die and we try to act from what we think is best. I get that it might feel like staff is ignoring users by editing out leaving threads and not leaving them as they were which we have done in some cases in the past. I do agree that might be the more respectful to do but I can personally also say that it's off putting as a long time staff user who has poured a lot of time and effort into trying to help this site to see how people complain about activity, and in general criticizing staff perhaps even specific members while often not doing much to help the site themselves. I feel like many haven't even given the current leadership chance before saying that's the source of the problem. Criticism of the current staff in general rarely appears constructive but simply members venting/complaining about how much the current staff sucks or how vizzed "has changed". 

As a side note because I feel this needs reminding and many people are probably going to read through this thread, punishment is usually not decided by any one staff user because the mod team at least for the nearly 2 years I've been a moderator has worked as a unit in how it deals with users. Punishment in terms of warnings and bans are in all but the most severe rule breaks (like posting pornography) voted on by the entire mod team. Especially in the case of prominent members within the community, that is why we have a report forum. That has been the case since before geeogree left as an admin and it is still the case today.
This is going to be a combination of a response to your post with some more general stuff responding to concerns user seem to have with the staff currently because I have been planning to make a thread in the underground on this topic for a few days now.

Staring with what you brought up in this thread, I honestly find it kind of odd that you'd implicitly argue that leaving threads are in some sense a good thing or at least something we should allow because they boost activity. They only boost activity because of the resulting drama, in the long run I'm pretty sure they harm activity. While it's true that vizzed has dropped in activity (no one on or off staff who has been around denies that) I think the few new members that we do manage to attract are immediately put off by the threads saying something along the lines of "vizzed isn't what it used to be" or that you're leaving because of x and x reasons. For some people I can see the reason for why they'd make a leaving thread but for others it seems like they just want the attention/get a reaction out of people. Many could probably handle leaving without having to make a thread for it. People making leaving threads or threads activity, whatever good intentions they may have probably contribute more to the decline than they prevent it and contribute to toxicity within the community through the drama they often create. This is why they aren't allowed.

I don't see how it's censorship that leaving threads are disallowed across the forums, the way I understand it, the only reason that leaving threads are disallowed in your forum specifically is because that was supposed to be the only public forum where one would even think to bring that up. Making a leaving thread in IT or other rented forums is basically trying to circumvent the rules in my view not censorship. Rented forums are from what I understood, supposed to either have a specific theme that they follow for specific topics that don't fit within the main forums or in the case of some private forums for friends to hang out in, not be substitutes for the public forums as what has occured in IT right now. I also think 95% of people who would think to make a leaving thread are aware that they aren't allowed because they've usually been around for a long time.

Other than that I think Eirinn hit the nail on the head, all of us mods are also users who spend time on the site because we enjoy it. Because of that we make mistakes sometimes as our standing as users on the site might clash with the way we conduct ourselves as mods, But we love the site, none of us want to see it die and we try to act from what we think is best. I get that it might feel like staff is ignoring users by editing out leaving threads and not leaving them as they were which we have done in some cases in the past. I do agree that might be the more respectful to do but I can personally also say that it's off putting as a long time staff user who has poured a lot of time and effort into trying to help this site to see how people complain about activity, and in general criticizing staff perhaps even specific members while often not doing much to help the site themselves. I feel like many haven't even given the current leadership chance before saying that's the source of the problem. Criticism of the current staff in general rarely appears constructive but simply members venting/complaining about how much the current staff sucks or how vizzed "has changed". 

As a side note because I feel this needs reminding and many people are probably going to read through this thread, punishment is usually not decided by any one staff user because the mod team at least for the nearly 2 years I've been a moderator has worked as a unit in how it deals with users. Punishment in terms of warnings and bans are in all but the most severe rule breaks (like posting pornography) voted on by the entire mod team. Especially in the case of prominent members within the community, that is why we have a report forum. That has been the case since before geeogree left as an admin and it is still the case today.
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(edited by Zlinqx on 07-12-17 08:29 PM)    

07-12-17 08:36 PM
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Its a forum owned by David... you don't really have any rights here. Its a private forum.

The leaving threads are pointless and they never have anything good said in them. They are always critical of vizzed, its members, its policies or all the above.

EX Palen :
There was nothing excessive about any of it. They are not allowed, so I am not going to leave them open or unedited. Its that simple.
Just because someone was here for 10 days or 10 years, the rules are the same. I think it would be more disrespectful to only enforce the rules on newer members.
Its a forum owned by David... you don't really have any rights here. Its a private forum.

The leaving threads are pointless and they never have anything good said in them. They are always critical of vizzed, its members, its policies or all the above.

EX Palen :
There was nothing excessive about any of it. They are not allowed, so I am not going to leave them open or unedited. Its that simple.
Just because someone was here for 10 days or 10 years, the rules are the same. I think it would be more disrespectful to only enforce the rules on newer members.
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07-12-17 08:42 PM
Zlinqx is Offline
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EX Palen : In talking about this I'm taking a risk but I feel it needs a response. Specifically in the case of geeogree I feel the way this was handled was in part because of how he has acted since stepping down from staff. The argument you are making seems to be that his thread should've been left unaltered because he has earned the right to say this goodbye but I think many feel that it needs to be a two way street. Having broken the rules more than once since becoming elite and bad mouthing some of the current staff recently it feels like ever since being off staff he has acted against it. Many of us respected him and I can say I still do in some regards having worked under him but if he is not showing the current staff basic respect by at least trying to follow the rules and even badmouthing some people on staff. Then naturally those same people are more inclined to not want do the same for him in a case of essentially allowing him to post a leaving thread. At least that's the way I view it. The only reason I'm saying is to try and illustrate there is another side to the coin. I'm sure you're aware of this having been on the mod team in the past.
EX Palen : In talking about this I'm taking a risk but I feel it needs a response. Specifically in the case of geeogree I feel the way this was handled was in part because of how he has acted since stepping down from staff. The argument you are making seems to be that his thread should've been left unaltered because he has earned the right to say this goodbye but I think many feel that it needs to be a two way street. Having broken the rules more than once since becoming elite and bad mouthing some of the current staff recently it feels like ever since being off staff he has acted against it. Many of us respected him and I can say I still do in some regards having worked under him but if he is not showing the current staff basic respect by at least trying to follow the rules and even badmouthing some people on staff. Then naturally those same people are more inclined to not want do the same for him in a case of essentially allowing him to post a leaving thread. At least that's the way I view it. The only reason I'm saying is to try and illustrate there is another side to the coin. I'm sure you're aware of this having been on the mod team in the past.
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(edited by Zlinqx on 07-12-17 09:08 PM)    

07-12-17 08:55 PM
Furret is Offline
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Vanelan : Does the reason for leaving have any say in what gets done to the thread?

Take an extreme example in ~sakura~'s leaving thread:
https://www.vizzed.com/boards/thread.php?id=14496

Would you edit and trash threads like this as well? Because you're making it sound like leaving threads as a whole are toxic to the site which is clearly not the case. Someone's reasons for leaving are always personal and I feel like it's disrespectful to just trash them like that. At least just close the thread and have everyone move on.

Vanelan : Does the reason for leaving have any say in what gets done to the thread?

Take an extreme example in ~sakura~'s leaving thread:
https://www.vizzed.com/boards/thread.php?id=14496

Would you edit and trash threads like this as well? Because you're making it sound like leaving threads as a whole are toxic to the site which is clearly not the case. Someone's reasons for leaving are always personal and I feel like it's disrespectful to just trash them like that. At least just close the thread and have everyone move on.

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07-12-17 09:03 PM
Vanelan is Offline
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Furret :
That isn't a leaving thread as much as a final goodbye because she was sick and didn't know how much time she had left.
Don't try to argue semantics here.... the most recent leaving threads had nothing to do with an inability to return as Sakura's did...
Furret :
That isn't a leaving thread as much as a final goodbye because she was sick and didn't know how much time she had left.
Don't try to argue semantics here.... the most recent leaving threads had nothing to do with an inability to return as Sakura's did...
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07-12-17 09:10 PM
Furret is Offline
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Vanelan : Remove any sentimental values and it's essentially the same thing. But that's besides the point.

I just want an answer to my opening question because I know I'd feel like crap if I wanted to share with the community why I might go inactive just to have it disregarded and trashed for being a "toxic thread". Not all leaving threads are pointless.
Vanelan : Remove any sentimental values and it's essentially the same thing. But that's besides the point.

I just want an answer to my opening question because I know I'd feel like crap if I wanted to share with the community why I might go inactive just to have it disregarded and trashed for being a "toxic thread". Not all leaving threads are pointless.
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07-12-17 09:45 PM
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Vanelan : Why did you feel the need to not only edit the thread title but also delete all of what geo had said? That is clearly abuse of your power and was uncalled for!!!!
Vanelan : Why did you feel the need to not only edit the thread title but also delete all of what geo had said? That is clearly abuse of your power and was uncalled for!!!!
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07-12-17 09:46 PM
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JigSaw :
If you say so.
I am going to treat all the leaving threads the same...
JigSaw :
If you say so.
I am going to treat all the leaving threads the same...
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07-12-17 09:55 PM
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Vanelan : I don't care you closed it but to censor his entire post and replace it with something you wrote is f***ed up. I saw his original post and it wasn't distasteful at all. Why did you delete what he had said? Others would probably like to know why so and so are leaving, especially David.
Vanelan : I don't care you closed it but to censor his entire post and replace it with something you wrote is f***ed up. I saw his original post and it wasn't distasteful at all. Why did you delete what he had said? Others would probably like to know why so and so are leaving, especially David.
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07-13-17 01:11 AM
legacyme3 is Offline
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JigSaw :

Unfortunately, if they want to read it, the only place they can really do that is my Discord server. I knew it would be edited out, and took measures to ensure anyone who truly wants to know what geeo said that was so bad could be viewed.

Unfortunately, very few people are going to think to contact me (I hope they read this post!) since it doesn't make sense, but few things lately do, so who knows.
JigSaw :

Unfortunately, if they want to read it, the only place they can really do that is my Discord server. I knew it would be edited out, and took measures to ensure anyone who truly wants to know what geeo said that was so bad could be viewed.

Unfortunately, very few people are going to think to contact me (I hope they read this post!) since it doesn't make sense, but few things lately do, so who knows.
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07-13-17 07:22 PM
Barathemos is Offline
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Hear me out here

Unfortunately, this is a member site and "censorship" of anything is all up to those with the power.

The whole leaving threads business was treated in the ways in which the rules state - doesn't matter if you don't like it, it happened the way it was supposed to. 

And according to the definition of censorship, which can be interpreted, it's suppression of things that, in our case, are a threat to security (of members). I don't find making people following the rules to be censorship, but it can be interpreted.

The reasons in which people leave, in my opinion, are completely necessary to be spoken and to be heard by the community- how else are we supposed to understand what people aren't liking and maybe seeing a reasoning behind what they say. When people say they don't like how the community is treating them, even if it only seems they're just being treated badly because they break rules for instance, it is still worthwhile to hear what they have to say, and maybe see that there is actually an issue that needs to be address and looked into. When a user such as geeogree leaves, due to being banned for the same things he had done for 12 years, you need to look at that. The reasoning for his ban was justified, but there could have been a better way to go about handling the situation. 

Some leaving threads are pointless and spammy, and those aren't needed, but those that are heartfelt from members that actually meant something, those are important! Having a discussion in those threads benefits everyone as long as they don't get out of control. The main reason for the no leaving threads rule was due to just how out of control they get, and that is understandable. 

All of these issues that happened, I can argue both sides, but finding solid ground between these two apparent sides is needed, and I personally feel like this thread has helped to start those discussions. 
Hear me out here

Unfortunately, this is a member site and "censorship" of anything is all up to those with the power.

The whole leaving threads business was treated in the ways in which the rules state - doesn't matter if you don't like it, it happened the way it was supposed to. 

And according to the definition of censorship, which can be interpreted, it's suppression of things that, in our case, are a threat to security (of members). I don't find making people following the rules to be censorship, but it can be interpreted.

The reasons in which people leave, in my opinion, are completely necessary to be spoken and to be heard by the community- how else are we supposed to understand what people aren't liking and maybe seeing a reasoning behind what they say. When people say they don't like how the community is treating them, even if it only seems they're just being treated badly because they break rules for instance, it is still worthwhile to hear what they have to say, and maybe see that there is actually an issue that needs to be address and looked into. When a user such as geeogree leaves, due to being banned for the same things he had done for 12 years, you need to look at that. The reasoning for his ban was justified, but there could have been a better way to go about handling the situation. 

Some leaving threads are pointless and spammy, and those aren't needed, but those that are heartfelt from members that actually meant something, those are important! Having a discussion in those threads benefits everyone as long as they don't get out of control. The main reason for the no leaving threads rule was due to just how out of control they get, and that is understandable. 

All of these issues that happened, I can argue both sides, but finding solid ground between these two apparent sides is needed, and I personally feel like this thread has helped to start those discussions. 
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07-13-17 07:51 PM
Lexatom is Offline
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Barathemos :
What do you mean when you say "members that actually meant something"?

I didn't make my thread long like Geeo's was because I was tired of arguing about it after all that time and I didn't see a point in doing so anymore. I wanted to make it short and sweet. I don't think wanting to make a thread short, sweet, and to the point should really constitute as spammy.

I don't see the rules mentioning the need to edit everything out of the original post and change the title, especially when the title is changed to what can easily be seen as insulting the creator of the thread. 
Barathemos :
What do you mean when you say "members that actually meant something"?

I didn't make my thread long like Geeo's was because I was tired of arguing about it after all that time and I didn't see a point in doing so anymore. I wanted to make it short and sweet. I don't think wanting to make a thread short, sweet, and to the point should really constitute as spammy.

I don't see the rules mentioning the need to edit everything out of the original post and change the title, especially when the title is changed to what can easily be seen as insulting the creator of the thread. 
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07-13-17 07:54 PM
Barathemos is Offline
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Lexatom : If someone no one knows leaves, such as everyone who left due to nintendo games being removed, I feel no reason for them to say that. Phrased that incorrectly, sorry.

I never got to read your leaving thread, but I've heard it was just "hi im lexatom im leaving bye"

If it was that, theres no substance, no reason for you leaving, and it's pointless. If you don't want to try and work out the problems you had been having, the leaving thread was pointless.

I never said editing it is right, I completely disagree. 
Lexatom : If someone no one knows leaves, such as everyone who left due to nintendo games being removed, I feel no reason for them to say that. Phrased that incorrectly, sorry.

I never got to read your leaving thread, but I've heard it was just "hi im lexatom im leaving bye"

If it was that, theres no substance, no reason for you leaving, and it's pointless. If you don't want to try and work out the problems you had been having, the leaving thread was pointless.

I never said editing it is right, I completely disagree. 
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07-13-17 07:57 PM
Vanelan is Offline
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Barathemos :
If people want things fixed, leaving threads aren't the way to go about it.

Why doesn't anyone go to the suggestion forum and actually suggest a solution rather than just say "This and that suck, so I am leaving."
That doesn't help them or the community. And at that point, let's say that we DO change what they are complaining about. They left, so what good does that do?

Just because someone has been doing something for years doesn't mean they are justified in continuing to do them either. If anything, that is all the reason TO ban someone. He got away with it for 12 years, he was warned multiple times, and he had been previously banned as well... how many times can you just say "no, stop that?"

TL;DR-
Suggest solutions instead of just complaining and making leaving threads. That will improve the community and might even keep around the members considering leaving.
Barathemos :
If people want things fixed, leaving threads aren't the way to go about it.

Why doesn't anyone go to the suggestion forum and actually suggest a solution rather than just say "This and that suck, so I am leaving."
That doesn't help them or the community. And at that point, let's say that we DO change what they are complaining about. They left, so what good does that do?

Just because someone has been doing something for years doesn't mean they are justified in continuing to do them either. If anything, that is all the reason TO ban someone. He got away with it for 12 years, he was warned multiple times, and he had been previously banned as well... how many times can you just say "no, stop that?"

TL;DR-
Suggest solutions instead of just complaining and making leaving threads. That will improve the community and might even keep around the members considering leaving.
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07-13-17 08:06 PM
Barathemos is Offline
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Vanelan : The leaving thread is drama, what I said, or attempted to express, is that the ideas that are expressed inside of the threads are needed for development. I didn't specify how they should go about doing this, it would be better to go through suggestion forums or moderators.

As I said to lexatom, the "This sucks I'm leaving" threads are completely pointless and unneeded. If thats all they do and leave, sucks for them, but what we've seen is these users NOT actually leaving, some are even replying to my posts. 

I don't know the whole back story of geeogree, I was making a point. It's all situational, and what he was doing was wrong, I've taken that from him, but sometimes looking at something differently is needed- and also not being an expert at your life or mod affairs, I have NO idea as to what happened in that process. I said I can argue both sides, and I personally feel the ban was justified, but I could also justify messages for some of the other users who made parodies and/or related threads about these issues- which is also something I have no idea as to if it happened or didn't. 
Vanelan : The leaving thread is drama, what I said, or attempted to express, is that the ideas that are expressed inside of the threads are needed for development. I didn't specify how they should go about doing this, it would be better to go through suggestion forums or moderators.

As I said to lexatom, the "This sucks I'm leaving" threads are completely pointless and unneeded. If thats all they do and leave, sucks for them, but what we've seen is these users NOT actually leaving, some are even replying to my posts. 

I don't know the whole back story of geeogree, I was making a point. It's all situational, and what he was doing was wrong, I've taken that from him, but sometimes looking at something differently is needed- and also not being an expert at your life or mod affairs, I have NO idea as to what happened in that process. I said I can argue both sides, and I personally feel the ban was justified, but I could also justify messages for some of the other users who made parodies and/or related threads about these issues- which is also something I have no idea as to if it happened or didn't. 
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07-13-17 08:10 PM
Lexatom is Offline
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Barathemos :
Ey' I can't miss all the juicy drama. I'll go after a couple days pass. >3>
Barathemos :
Ey' I can't miss all the juicy drama. I'll go after a couple days pass. >3>
Vizzed Elite
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