Remove Ad, Sign Up
Register to Remove Ad
Register to Remove Ad
Remove Ad, Sign Up
Register to Remove Ad
Register to Remove Ad
Signup for Free!
-More Features-
-Far Less Ads-
About   Users   Help
Users & Guests Online
On Page: 1
Directory: 1 & 181
Entire Site: 5 & 976
Page Staff: pennylessz, pokemon x, Barathemos, tgags123, alexanyways, supercool22, RavusRat,
04-26-24 07:03 PM

Forum Links

Thread Information

Views
521
Replies
4
Rating
0
Status
CLOSED
Thread
Creator
legacyme3
01-04-17 03:50 AM
Last
Post
zanderlex
01-06-17 02:18 PM
Additional Thread Details
Views: 398
Today: 0
Users: 9 unique
Last User View
01-13-17
B619ook

Thread Actions

Thread Closed
New Thread
New Poll
Order
 

2016/17 Baseball Hall of Fame Voting

 

01-04-17 03:50 AM
legacyme3 is Offline
| ID: 1322468 | 1817 Words

legacyme3
Lord Leggy - King of IT
Level: 268


POSTS: 25847/27250
POST EXP: 2003421
LVL EXP: 317225923
CP: 42531.1
VIZ: 2982476

Likes: 0  Dislikes: 0
So, it's only a few days before it's announced which players will be joining names like Ken Griffey Jr in the Hall of Fame. There are a few rules to remind you of:

1) Each official voter only gets 10 spots on their ballot. There are about two dozen players you can make a legitimate case for, but since you can only vote in 10, many will go without as many votes as they could normally have.

2) You need 75% votes to get into the Hall of Fame. If you get 74.9%, you miss out, that's tough.

3) If you do not get at least 5% of the votes, you fall off the ballot entirely.

4) You only get 10 years on the ballot, 10 chances to make the Hall of Fame, only current exception is Lee Smith who was grandfathered in.

Below is a list of the players who are qualified, and on the ballot:

Jeff Bagwell - 7th
Tim Raines - 10th
Trevor Hoffman - 2nd
Curt Schilling - 5th
Roger Clemens - 5th
Barry Bonds - 5th
Edgar Martinez - 8th
Mike Mussina - 4th
Lee Smith - 15th
Fred McGriff - 8th
Jeff Kent - 4th
Larry Walker - 7th
Gary Sheffield - 3rd
Billy Wagner - 2nd
Sammy Sosa - 5th
Ivan Rodriguez - 1st
Manny Ramirez - 1st
Vladimir Guerrero - 1st
Mike Cameron - 1st
J.D. Drew - 1st
Jorge Posada - 1st
Magglio Ordonez - 1st
Derrek Lee - 1st
Tim Wakefield - 1st
Edgar Renteria - 1st
Melvin Mora - 1st
Carlos Guillen - 1st
Casey Blake - 1st
Jason Varitek - 1st
Orlando Cabrera - 1st
Pat Burrell - 1st
Freddy Sanchez - 1st
Arthur Rhodes - 1st
Matt Stairs - 1st

Below is my ballot, and the why of it:

#1. Barry Bonds

Barry Bonds not being in the Hall of Fame is an utter travesty. Ignore for the fact that he is not a great person. Ignore for a fact that he may have cheated. The Hall of Fame exists to remember those who have had an impact on the game, and those who are central to the story of the sport.

You cannot have a hall of baseball history if you do not mention the Home Run king. Of both the regular season, and of all-time. He's paid for whatever transgression he may have committed, and above all, has earned the right to get into the Hall of Fame. Before his Giants days (the ones in question), he was a Hall of Fame talent in Pittsburgh. In 7 years in Pittsburgh, he hit .275/.380/.503, 176 HRs and 251 SB (his 162 game averages were 28.2 and 40.3 respectively). Players who played to that rate in 2016? Only two were close. Mookie Betts and Mike Trout. And Barry Bonds was doing that consistently for 7 years straight. Amazingly, he only won two MVP awards in Pittsburgh, when it's arguable he should have 4 or 5.

Even once he left Pittsburgh, he maintained this production with the Giants for a number of years, for six more years, with the Giants, until his numbers began to look more like something you'd expect from a juicer.

Adding those years together, you have 13 years of high quality performance from before he was a known juicer.

Were he to retire after that 1998 season, he'd have 411 HRs and 445 SB, making him the only member of the 400-400 club. There are a few more in the 300-300 club, but he's the only player in history to hit 400 HR and get 400 SB, and he did that, while on his way to breaking the HR record (finishing with 762).

He should enter as a member of the: San Francisco Giants

#2. Roger Clemens

Kind of just have to read above, you can call him a cheat all you want, but he was likely a Hall of Fame player before he ever started juicing.

He's a 7-time Cy Young award winner, which is the most in the history. He's also an illustrious member of the 300 win club, which is virtually impossible in modern day history. If you were to pitch 15 years, you would need to win 20 games a year, on average, in order to hit 300 wins. Exactly 3 people won 20 games last year. Nobody had 200 wins in the past 10 years (which is the rate you would need). The leader in wins for the past ten years, combined, is Justin Verlander, who won 156 games.

300 wins doesn't happen. He won 354.

Regardless of your opinion of him as a person, he did work, as he ranks 3rd in strikeouts all-time behind Nolan Ryan and Randy Johnson, both Hall of Famers. Only two people with at least 3,000 strikeouts aren't in the Hall of Fame. Both of them are up to be elected this year.

He played for the Red Sox, Astros, Blue Jays, and Yankees. His best years came in Boston, so...

He should enter as a member of the: Boston Red Sox

#3. Jeff Bagwell

This one is a change of pace. Bagwell is an example of a player who (seemingly) played the game the right way. He, unlike the two above, was never so much as properly accused of doing Performance Enhancing Drugs, and is one of the best "good guys" in baseball history.

Playing his entire career with the Astros, he hit 449 HRs, and had 1401 walks to 1558 strikeouts, which is an accomplishment in itself. 55 players have hit 400 HRs in all of baseball history. Of those 55 players, only 6 players who have had their eligibility run out have failed to hit the Hall of Fame. Only one of those names hit more than Bagwell, and had clear ties to PEDs.

His 79.6 bWAR ranks as 38th all-time. And first-basemen tend to have a steeper battle in that department. He ranks about equally with Dan Brouthers, who was one of the top players in the early days of the game. Only five players have a higher WAR and aren't in the HoF. All of those names are either active players like Albert Pujols or recently retired, like Alex Rodriguez.

When you consider that he's a clean player, who was in the top percentage of players, all-time, it seems like a no-brainer.

He should enter as a member of the: Houston Astros

#4. Trevor Hoffman

He was once the saves leader, and now he's #2 all-time. It's hard to express how difficult it is to get 600 saves. If you pitch 20 years, you would need to get 30 saves a year, on average. This is close to what Hoffman did on his path to 601 saves. To get 30 saves a year, you must at least be of average quality, for a team that is able to win roughly half the time, at the very least.

Hoffman was never a flashy player, but he was always a good one.

Among relievers with at least 500 IP, all-time, he ranks 32nd in ERA, out of the 300+ qualifiers. He ranks 2nd in saves, 3rd in WAR, and was, like Bagwell, a clean player. There's not a lot to say about him that isn't already said.

He should enter as a member of the: San Diego Padres

#5. Manny Ramirez

I mean, I don't want to understate it, but come on.

He obviously has the PED implications that Bonds and Clemens do, and he was never as top-5 level as those two were, so he's a much harder sell.

But if we treat the HoF as a Hall of History, then Manny being there makes too much sense, to not happen. He hit 555 HRs, good for 15th all-time, on route to a legendary career for one of the most charismatic players in all of baseball history. Of the players who hit 500 HRs, only two have failed to get in the HoF so far, Mark McGwire and Rafael Palmerio.

His bWAR is comparable to Tim Raines', who is a top vote getter in reality this year. Manny Ramirez was larger than life.

He played for the Red Sox, Cleveland Indians, Los Angeles Dodgers, Chicago White Sox, and Tampa Bay Rays.

He should enter as a member of the: Boston Red Sox.

#6. Ivan Rodriguez

I'll preface this by saying, I don't care if he did PEDs or not. He played for a long time, primarily with the Texas Rangers, but he has also put in a lot of games with the Detroit Tigers, Washington Nationals, Florida Marlins, Houston Astros, and New York Yankees. In his career, he hit 311 HRs as a catcher, and was a slightly above average offensive player.

But his defense was the best part of his game, and he might end up being the best overall defensive catcher of all-time.

He's a 13 time gold glover at catcher, a record at the position.

He should enter as a member of the: Texas Rangers

#7. Vladimir Guerrero

Vlad is and was probably the best bad ball hitter in the history of the sport. It didn't matter where you pitched to him, if it was on the same planet, Vlad probably hits it anyways.

He made his name in Montreal, and solidified that name in Los Angeles. He also put together two total years across Texas and Baltimore. With Vlad, it didn't really matter where he played, he was going to be a monster. He hit 449 career home runs, and it's entirely believable that he could have played longer than he did. He's comparable with Larry Walker, but only one of them had room on this ballot, so I'm going with the player I remember more fondly.

He should enter as a member of the: Montreal Expos.

#8. Curt Schilling

I once wrote a case for him as my 10th pick, a couple years back, and most of what I said back then still holds true today. He's dropped a bit in my stock, but I still think he's a Hall of Famer based on his course of work.

The Hall of Fame is NOT a Hall of Sainthood, if it was, Schilling would be DQ'd for being one of the most detestable people in his post-playing career.

He should enter as a member of the: Boston Red Sox.

#9. Edgar Martinez

Come on, just put him in already. He's one of the best overall hitters of his generation, and he's a clean player. No more needs to be said.

He should enter as a member of the: Seattle Mariners

#10. Billy Wagner

I'm too lazy to type a great defense about him. He never had the saves Hoffman did, but his peripherals were better, and he was a better overall reliever.

He should enter as a member of the: Houston Astros.
So, it's only a few days before it's announced which players will be joining names like Ken Griffey Jr in the Hall of Fame. There are a few rules to remind you of:

1) Each official voter only gets 10 spots on their ballot. There are about two dozen players you can make a legitimate case for, but since you can only vote in 10, many will go without as many votes as they could normally have.

2) You need 75% votes to get into the Hall of Fame. If you get 74.9%, you miss out, that's tough.

3) If you do not get at least 5% of the votes, you fall off the ballot entirely.

4) You only get 10 years on the ballot, 10 chances to make the Hall of Fame, only current exception is Lee Smith who was grandfathered in.

Below is a list of the players who are qualified, and on the ballot:

Jeff Bagwell - 7th
Tim Raines - 10th
Trevor Hoffman - 2nd
Curt Schilling - 5th
Roger Clemens - 5th
Barry Bonds - 5th
Edgar Martinez - 8th
Mike Mussina - 4th
Lee Smith - 15th
Fred McGriff - 8th
Jeff Kent - 4th
Larry Walker - 7th
Gary Sheffield - 3rd
Billy Wagner - 2nd
Sammy Sosa - 5th
Ivan Rodriguez - 1st
Manny Ramirez - 1st
Vladimir Guerrero - 1st
Mike Cameron - 1st
J.D. Drew - 1st
Jorge Posada - 1st
Magglio Ordonez - 1st
Derrek Lee - 1st
Tim Wakefield - 1st
Edgar Renteria - 1st
Melvin Mora - 1st
Carlos Guillen - 1st
Casey Blake - 1st
Jason Varitek - 1st
Orlando Cabrera - 1st
Pat Burrell - 1st
Freddy Sanchez - 1st
Arthur Rhodes - 1st
Matt Stairs - 1st

Below is my ballot, and the why of it:

#1. Barry Bonds

Barry Bonds not being in the Hall of Fame is an utter travesty. Ignore for the fact that he is not a great person. Ignore for a fact that he may have cheated. The Hall of Fame exists to remember those who have had an impact on the game, and those who are central to the story of the sport.

You cannot have a hall of baseball history if you do not mention the Home Run king. Of both the regular season, and of all-time. He's paid for whatever transgression he may have committed, and above all, has earned the right to get into the Hall of Fame. Before his Giants days (the ones in question), he was a Hall of Fame talent in Pittsburgh. In 7 years in Pittsburgh, he hit .275/.380/.503, 176 HRs and 251 SB (his 162 game averages were 28.2 and 40.3 respectively). Players who played to that rate in 2016? Only two were close. Mookie Betts and Mike Trout. And Barry Bonds was doing that consistently for 7 years straight. Amazingly, he only won two MVP awards in Pittsburgh, when it's arguable he should have 4 or 5.

Even once he left Pittsburgh, he maintained this production with the Giants for a number of years, for six more years, with the Giants, until his numbers began to look more like something you'd expect from a juicer.

Adding those years together, you have 13 years of high quality performance from before he was a known juicer.

Were he to retire after that 1998 season, he'd have 411 HRs and 445 SB, making him the only member of the 400-400 club. There are a few more in the 300-300 club, but he's the only player in history to hit 400 HR and get 400 SB, and he did that, while on his way to breaking the HR record (finishing with 762).

He should enter as a member of the: San Francisco Giants

#2. Roger Clemens

Kind of just have to read above, you can call him a cheat all you want, but he was likely a Hall of Fame player before he ever started juicing.

He's a 7-time Cy Young award winner, which is the most in the history. He's also an illustrious member of the 300 win club, which is virtually impossible in modern day history. If you were to pitch 15 years, you would need to win 20 games a year, on average, in order to hit 300 wins. Exactly 3 people won 20 games last year. Nobody had 200 wins in the past 10 years (which is the rate you would need). The leader in wins for the past ten years, combined, is Justin Verlander, who won 156 games.

300 wins doesn't happen. He won 354.

Regardless of your opinion of him as a person, he did work, as he ranks 3rd in strikeouts all-time behind Nolan Ryan and Randy Johnson, both Hall of Famers. Only two people with at least 3,000 strikeouts aren't in the Hall of Fame. Both of them are up to be elected this year.

He played for the Red Sox, Astros, Blue Jays, and Yankees. His best years came in Boston, so...

He should enter as a member of the: Boston Red Sox

#3. Jeff Bagwell

This one is a change of pace. Bagwell is an example of a player who (seemingly) played the game the right way. He, unlike the two above, was never so much as properly accused of doing Performance Enhancing Drugs, and is one of the best "good guys" in baseball history.

Playing his entire career with the Astros, he hit 449 HRs, and had 1401 walks to 1558 strikeouts, which is an accomplishment in itself. 55 players have hit 400 HRs in all of baseball history. Of those 55 players, only 6 players who have had their eligibility run out have failed to hit the Hall of Fame. Only one of those names hit more than Bagwell, and had clear ties to PEDs.

His 79.6 bWAR ranks as 38th all-time. And first-basemen tend to have a steeper battle in that department. He ranks about equally with Dan Brouthers, who was one of the top players in the early days of the game. Only five players have a higher WAR and aren't in the HoF. All of those names are either active players like Albert Pujols or recently retired, like Alex Rodriguez.

When you consider that he's a clean player, who was in the top percentage of players, all-time, it seems like a no-brainer.

He should enter as a member of the: Houston Astros

#4. Trevor Hoffman

He was once the saves leader, and now he's #2 all-time. It's hard to express how difficult it is to get 600 saves. If you pitch 20 years, you would need to get 30 saves a year, on average. This is close to what Hoffman did on his path to 601 saves. To get 30 saves a year, you must at least be of average quality, for a team that is able to win roughly half the time, at the very least.

Hoffman was never a flashy player, but he was always a good one.

Among relievers with at least 500 IP, all-time, he ranks 32nd in ERA, out of the 300+ qualifiers. He ranks 2nd in saves, 3rd in WAR, and was, like Bagwell, a clean player. There's not a lot to say about him that isn't already said.

He should enter as a member of the: San Diego Padres

#5. Manny Ramirez

I mean, I don't want to understate it, but come on.

He obviously has the PED implications that Bonds and Clemens do, and he was never as top-5 level as those two were, so he's a much harder sell.

But if we treat the HoF as a Hall of History, then Manny being there makes too much sense, to not happen. He hit 555 HRs, good for 15th all-time, on route to a legendary career for one of the most charismatic players in all of baseball history. Of the players who hit 500 HRs, only two have failed to get in the HoF so far, Mark McGwire and Rafael Palmerio.

His bWAR is comparable to Tim Raines', who is a top vote getter in reality this year. Manny Ramirez was larger than life.

He played for the Red Sox, Cleveland Indians, Los Angeles Dodgers, Chicago White Sox, and Tampa Bay Rays.

He should enter as a member of the: Boston Red Sox.

#6. Ivan Rodriguez

I'll preface this by saying, I don't care if he did PEDs or not. He played for a long time, primarily with the Texas Rangers, but he has also put in a lot of games with the Detroit Tigers, Washington Nationals, Florida Marlins, Houston Astros, and New York Yankees. In his career, he hit 311 HRs as a catcher, and was a slightly above average offensive player.

But his defense was the best part of his game, and he might end up being the best overall defensive catcher of all-time.

He's a 13 time gold glover at catcher, a record at the position.

He should enter as a member of the: Texas Rangers

#7. Vladimir Guerrero

Vlad is and was probably the best bad ball hitter in the history of the sport. It didn't matter where you pitched to him, if it was on the same planet, Vlad probably hits it anyways.

He made his name in Montreal, and solidified that name in Los Angeles. He also put together two total years across Texas and Baltimore. With Vlad, it didn't really matter where he played, he was going to be a monster. He hit 449 career home runs, and it's entirely believable that he could have played longer than he did. He's comparable with Larry Walker, but only one of them had room on this ballot, so I'm going with the player I remember more fondly.

He should enter as a member of the: Montreal Expos.

#8. Curt Schilling

I once wrote a case for him as my 10th pick, a couple years back, and most of what I said back then still holds true today. He's dropped a bit in my stock, but I still think he's a Hall of Famer based on his course of work.

The Hall of Fame is NOT a Hall of Sainthood, if it was, Schilling would be DQ'd for being one of the most detestable people in his post-playing career.

He should enter as a member of the: Boston Red Sox.

#9. Edgar Martinez

Come on, just put him in already. He's one of the best overall hitters of his generation, and he's a clean player. No more needs to be said.

He should enter as a member of the: Seattle Mariners

#10. Billy Wagner

I'm too lazy to type a great defense about him. He never had the saves Hoffman did, but his peripherals were better, and he was a better overall reliever.

He should enter as a member of the: Houston Astros.
Vizzed Elite
6-Time VCS Winner

One Leggy.
One Love.
One Dream.


Affected by 'Laziness Syndrome'

Registered: 09-14-10
Location: https://discord.gg/YCuUJz9
Last Post: 1319 days
Last Active: 1319 days

01-04-17 04:01 PM
thing1 is Offline
| ID: 1322484 | 121 Words

thing1
Thingywingy
Level: 219


POSTS: 15506/17208
POST EXP: 921418
LVL EXP: 156899374
CP: 31509.5
VIZ: 527433

Likes: 0  Dislikes: 0
As I don't follow baseball nearly as much outside of my team, I can really only honestly make a case for Edgar. 

I think Sammy Sosa, Rodger Clemens, and Barry Bonds all deserve to go in. However, the latter 2 need * for juicing. As much as I want to exclude them for juicing, their achievements before they started juicing has been torn on which was I should lean. 
The only other name I recognize is Manny Martinez, and I can't remember if that is Edgar's cousin or not. But, the name doesn't stick with me as much nearly as the others, so no vote from me. 


Is it allowed for the voters to not use all 10 of their votes? 
As I don't follow baseball nearly as much outside of my team, I can really only honestly make a case for Edgar. 

I think Sammy Sosa, Rodger Clemens, and Barry Bonds all deserve to go in. However, the latter 2 need * for juicing. As much as I want to exclude them for juicing, their achievements before they started juicing has been torn on which was I should lean. 
The only other name I recognize is Manny Martinez, and I can't remember if that is Edgar's cousin or not. But, the name doesn't stick with me as much nearly as the others, so no vote from me. 


Is it allowed for the voters to not use all 10 of their votes? 
Vizzed Elite
What is life?


Affected by 'Laziness Syndrome'

Registered: 02-03-11
Location: Washington DC Area
Last Post: 51 days
Last Active: 1 day

01-04-17 04:18 PM
legacyme3 is Offline
| ID: 1322491 | 41 Words

legacyme3
Lord Leggy - King of IT
Level: 268


POSTS: 25850/27250
POST EXP: 2003421
LVL EXP: 317225923
CP: 42531.1
VIZ: 2982476

Likes: 0  Dislikes: 0
thing1 :

Manny Ramirez, not Martinez.

As for your question, yes, it's actually very common for voters to not use all ten votes, many do it now to avoid voting for steroid users, while not casting a vote for an undeserving player.
thing1 :

Manny Ramirez, not Martinez.

As for your question, yes, it's actually very common for voters to not use all ten votes, many do it now to avoid voting for steroid users, while not casting a vote for an undeserving player.
Vizzed Elite
6-Time VCS Winner

One Leggy.
One Love.
One Dream.


Affected by 'Laziness Syndrome'

Registered: 09-14-10
Location: https://discord.gg/YCuUJz9
Last Post: 1319 days
Last Active: 1319 days

01-04-17 07:28 PM
thing1 is Offline
| ID: 1322534 | 33 Words

thing1
Thingywingy
Level: 219


POSTS: 15509/17208
POST EXP: 921418
LVL EXP: 156899374
CP: 31509.5
VIZ: 527433

Likes: 0  Dislikes: 0
Then yeah, I think just 3 for me. I would probably be inclined not to vote for steroid users, but I would only consider their states in years they were not using juice.
Then yeah, I think just 3 for me. I would probably be inclined not to vote for steroid users, but I would only consider their states in years they were not using juice.
Vizzed Elite
What is life?


Affected by 'Laziness Syndrome'

Registered: 02-03-11
Location: Washington DC Area
Last Post: 51 days
Last Active: 1 day

01-06-17 02:18 PM
zanderlex is Offline
| ID: 1322951 | 140 Words

zanderlex
dark mode
Level: 263


POSTS: 22679/28313
POST EXP: 1930156
LVL EXP: 296216265
CP: 156522.2
VIZ: 12362679

Likes: 0  Dislikes: 0
I definitely agree with Clemens and Bonds. Especially when you consider what Bonds has already accomplished beforehand. Not to mention there was recently a study that showed how over the past few years users have been getting more love.

I would make a case for Wagner to be higher up. Minus the Saves, his stats were incredible, even better once he got older. had he been able to keep up the stats he put up in his final season, age 38 for as long as Hoffman and Rivera had pitched, I feel he would have easily been on par with them. Sure, Hoffman had nearly 200 Saves more, but I'd glady take Wagners much better ERA, WHIP, and K/9. It's not every day when someone can go a whole season with a K/9 over 18, especially when they are 38.


I definitely agree with Clemens and Bonds. Especially when you consider what Bonds has already accomplished beforehand. Not to mention there was recently a study that showed how over the past few years users have been getting more love.

I would make a case for Wagner to be higher up. Minus the Saves, his stats were incredible, even better once he got older. had he been able to keep up the stats he put up in his final season, age 38 for as long as Hoffman and Rivera had pitched, I feel he would have easily been on par with them. Sure, Hoffman had nearly 200 Saves more, but I'd glady take Wagners much better ERA, WHIP, and K/9. It's not every day when someone can go a whole season with a K/9 over 18, especially when they are 38.


Vizzed Elite
Sergei's Mustache


Affected by 'Laziness Syndrome'

Registered: 09-25-13
Location: Inaba
Last Post: 4 days
Last Active: 2 days

Links

Page Comments


This page has no comments

Adblocker detected!

Vizzed.com is very expensive to keep alive! The Ads pay for the servers.

Vizzed has 3 TB worth of games and 1 TB worth of music.  This site is free to use but the ads barely pay for the monthly server fees.  If too many more people use ad block, the site cannot survive.

We prioritize the community over the site profits.  This is why we avoid using annoying (but high paying) ads like most other sites which include popups, obnoxious sounds and animations, malware, and other forms of intrusiveness.  We'll do our part to never resort to these types of ads, please do your part by helping support this site by adding Vizzed.com to your ad blocking whitelist.

×