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Separating marriage and government

 

07-02-15 06:06 PM
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So it is done: the United States now recognized same-sex marriage throughout all its jurisdictions. So far, the 10 plagues of Egypt have been rather weak...

And unfortunately, many civil servants still use the religious excuse to deny marriage licenses to same-sex couples. Pardon my French, but screw you stupid bureaucrat: you are bound by the rule of law, so either quit your job or bite the bullet and accept the money that comes with granting the license. If you were having a PRIVATE business and were doing the same thing I would have no objection (although Big Gov does...) It's YOUR property and YOUR money, and YOU will be worse off for refusing business.

Also, I do hope no church will be forced to marry same-sex couples if they do not wish to. Forcing them would be a clear violation of the First Amendment - and I have not heard it happening in countries with same-sex marriages.

However, why is government so intertwined in marriage in the first place? Back in New France the colonial government forced teens (12 for girls and 14 for guys) to get married or get fined in order to populate the territory. It was a success... but was there any love? Nowadays, depending on many factors, marriage can either be a great fiscal benefits (with higher deductions) or a fiscal hell if one of the 2 earns "too much".

The first good step would be to adopt a policy like Canada. Every couple (living together for at least a year) have exactly the same fiscal benefits, i.e. the only couple-related deduction they get is if the other makes less than $12k dollars. Otherwise they both pay taxes according to their salary.

But the best solution would be to get government out of marriage altogether. The only involvement it might have would be to make sure the contract is respected and that it happened between consenting adults. Otherwise, it would have no word in the matter. If three or more people want to live together, as long as everyone is consenting, let them. But they wouldn't get any special benefits.
So it is done: the United States now recognized same-sex marriage throughout all its jurisdictions. So far, the 10 plagues of Egypt have been rather weak...

And unfortunately, many civil servants still use the religious excuse to deny marriage licenses to same-sex couples. Pardon my French, but screw you stupid bureaucrat: you are bound by the rule of law, so either quit your job or bite the bullet and accept the money that comes with granting the license. If you were having a PRIVATE business and were doing the same thing I would have no objection (although Big Gov does...) It's YOUR property and YOUR money, and YOU will be worse off for refusing business.

Also, I do hope no church will be forced to marry same-sex couples if they do not wish to. Forcing them would be a clear violation of the First Amendment - and I have not heard it happening in countries with same-sex marriages.

However, why is government so intertwined in marriage in the first place? Back in New France the colonial government forced teens (12 for girls and 14 for guys) to get married or get fined in order to populate the territory. It was a success... but was there any love? Nowadays, depending on many factors, marriage can either be a great fiscal benefits (with higher deductions) or a fiscal hell if one of the 2 earns "too much".

The first good step would be to adopt a policy like Canada. Every couple (living together for at least a year) have exactly the same fiscal benefits, i.e. the only couple-related deduction they get is if the other makes less than $12k dollars. Otherwise they both pay taxes according to their salary.

But the best solution would be to get government out of marriage altogether. The only involvement it might have would be to make sure the contract is respected and that it happened between consenting adults. Otherwise, it would have no word in the matter. If three or more people want to live together, as long as everyone is consenting, let them. But they wouldn't get any special benefits.
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07-07-15 08:51 AM
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janus : I agree with most of what you said, especially in that the state needs to just stay out of 'marriage' and let it be a purely religious rite. However, I do take a small issue with what you say about civil servants being forced to violate their religious views. Unless you expand that to include every special accommodation made for anyone. Plenty of exceptions are made for people in government employ because of religious reasons already.
Example, Sikhs and muslims allowed to wear beards and turbans in the army.
I get what you're saying, it's just a slippery slope when you make exceptions for one group and not for another. Gay marriage is one thing, but what about abortion?
Should those who

are opposed to abortion be forced to fund them with their taxes?
Despite

what the mass media may say, the science is not settled. And Planned Parenthood does promote them.
For me personally, I tend to refer to Matthew 22:21 for guidance. 'give back to Caesar that which is Caesar's' which means to me, you don't have to like it, but you're more use alive than dead so pay your taxes. Or give those homosexuals a license.
janus : I agree with most of what you said, especially in that the state needs to just stay out of 'marriage' and let it be a purely religious rite. However, I do take a small issue with what you say about civil servants being forced to violate their religious views. Unless you expand that to include every special accommodation made for anyone. Plenty of exceptions are made for people in government employ because of religious reasons already.
Example, Sikhs and muslims allowed to wear beards and turbans in the army.
I get what you're saying, it's just a slippery slope when you make exceptions for one group and not for another. Gay marriage is one thing, but what about abortion?
Should those who

are opposed to abortion be forced to fund them with their taxes?
Despite

what the mass media may say, the science is not settled. And Planned Parenthood does promote them.
For me personally, I tend to refer to Matthew 22:21 for guidance. 'give back to Caesar that which is Caesar's' which means to me, you don't have to like it, but you're more use alive than dead so pay your taxes. Or give those homosexuals a license.
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(edited by Ferdinand on 07-07-15 08:56 AM)    

07-07-15 11:03 AM
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Ferdinand : You gave the perfect reason why bureaucrats (I hate euphemism) should let go of their personal views: either you accommodate everyone or you don't accommodate anyone. I vote for the latter since THIS is what the rule of law is all about: EVERYONE is equal. The exceptions you mention are, to my view, multiculturalism nonsense creeping in. It is causing the downfall of the United Kingdom, where (seemingly) whole blocks are now under the unofficial rule of barbaric customs... and those criticizing it are accused of hate speech. After all, accommodations were really about allowing people in wheelchairs better access to buildings. It got messy with a one-size-fits-all model from government - elevators to underground transport are excessively expensive, especially when it's a retrofitting - but private businesses have all the incentives in the world to make them

Your argument about paying for what is morally right is a good start, but then it can easily turn into an argument to abolish the state. If I believe having hundreds of military bases abroad is wrong, should I pay for them? Therefore, keep government small enough so it can be flushed down. This way, fewer people will have/ask for favors.
Ferdinand : You gave the perfect reason why bureaucrats (I hate euphemism) should let go of their personal views: either you accommodate everyone or you don't accommodate anyone. I vote for the latter since THIS is what the rule of law is all about: EVERYONE is equal. The exceptions you mention are, to my view, multiculturalism nonsense creeping in. It is causing the downfall of the United Kingdom, where (seemingly) whole blocks are now under the unofficial rule of barbaric customs... and those criticizing it are accused of hate speech. After all, accommodations were really about allowing people in wheelchairs better access to buildings. It got messy with a one-size-fits-all model from government - elevators to underground transport are excessively expensive, especially when it's a retrofitting - but private businesses have all the incentives in the world to make them

Your argument about paying for what is morally right is a good start, but then it can easily turn into an argument to abolish the state. If I believe having hundreds of military bases abroad is wrong, should I pay for them? Therefore, keep government small enough so it can be flushed down. This way, fewer people will have/ask for favors.
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   We cannot completely separate marriage from the government because there are certain rights that are afforded to married couples that unmarried people do not get. Because of this, we need to regulate who can marry who so that these rights cannot be abused. Unfortunately, governments can be very slow to accept social changes. We can, however, separate marriage from religion. The religious are welcome to have traditional weddings, while those who aren't into that sort of thing can simply sign a piece of paper and leave religious beliefs out of it entirely because not everyone follows the same beliefs and no one should be forced into the melting pot.

   Further, I do not see the problem with making exceptions in order to make the world a more inclusive place. Making life easier for a wheelchair-bound (or otherwise handicapped) person who
already has life more difficult than more mobile people is worth the extra money for elevators/ramps. And these "barbaric customs" are part of people's culture and these blocks that have been taken over are small communities for people trying to make their way to a better life. I don't understand how this is part of the downfall of the United Kingdom at all.
   We cannot completely separate marriage from the government because there are certain rights that are afforded to married couples that unmarried people do not get. Because of this, we need to regulate who can marry who so that these rights cannot be abused. Unfortunately, governments can be very slow to accept social changes. We can, however, separate marriage from religion. The religious are welcome to have traditional weddings, while those who aren't into that sort of thing can simply sign a piece of paper and leave religious beliefs out of it entirely because not everyone follows the same beliefs and no one should be forced into the melting pot.

   Further, I do not see the problem with making exceptions in order to make the world a more inclusive place. Making life easier for a wheelchair-bound (or otherwise handicapped) person who
already has life more difficult than more mobile people is worth the extra money for elevators/ramps. And these "barbaric customs" are part of people's culture and these blocks that have been taken over are small communities for people trying to make their way to a better life. I don't understand how this is part of the downfall of the United Kingdom at all.
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08-27-15 10:51 PM
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People who don't believe in Yahova basically took a religious thing and used it how they want. I've never considered the government the voice that decides what counts as a marriage between me an my spouse!

If we are in a covenant, and agreement with one another, then we are married.

As for the ten plagues of Egypt, Don't call it just yet. If 9/11 is anything reminiscent, then the American people will be back down on their knees before long. Probably won't change either.

Ah well. . . I guess that's just the way it is then.

You know, when this Fad of homosexuality dies down, and in the next 20 years, a generation of common sense rises up against it like has against abortion I'll be happy. Since it's the agenda now though I guess I'll have to wait.
People who don't believe in Yahova basically took a religious thing and used it how they want. I've never considered the government the voice that decides what counts as a marriage between me an my spouse!

If we are in a covenant, and agreement with one another, then we are married.

As for the ten plagues of Egypt, Don't call it just yet. If 9/11 is anything reminiscent, then the American people will be back down on their knees before long. Probably won't change either.

Ah well. . . I guess that's just the way it is then.

You know, when this Fad of homosexuality dies down, and in the next 20 years, a generation of common sense rises up against it like has against abortion I'll be happy. Since it's the agenda now though I guess I'll have to wait.
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08-27-15 11:33 PM
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Sword legion : homosexuality "fad"? Because you genuinely believe are "doing it" just for fun? They conscientiously wake up one morning and "decide" to turn gay?
Sword legion : homosexuality "fad"? Because you genuinely believe are "doing it" just for fun? They conscientiously wake up one morning and "decide" to turn gay?
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Sword legion : If being married was not what couples are expected to do in western culture, and if being married did not give legal benefits to the two people involved in the marriage (think of when one partner dies, being married gives the other partner power over thier estate), than I doubt homosexuals would want to take part in one your religions ceremonies what with it's history in dealing with homosexuals. What was being fought for was same-sex unions being recognized the same as a religious marriage in legal terms. I'm not a very religious man and I prefer to stay away from religions in general, but the act of expressing your love to another human by legally binding yourselves until death is named the same as a religious ceremony unfortunetly.
As for the threads topic....

Should the government be involved in marriage? In my opinion, no. While marriage was originaly the trading of a daughter and son for chattle it has become a very importnant religious ceremony in the past centuries and it should be respected as such. Should homosexuals have the right to have a union recognized the same as a religious marriage in legal terms? Yes. Being attracted to someone of the sex does not make one insane or sub-human, and if the argument of it being agiasnt nature is used than I would like to point to the numerous animals in which same-sex attraction has been evidenced in (perhaps the most amusing of which is the ram).
Sword legion : If being married was not what couples are expected to do in western culture, and if being married did not give legal benefits to the two people involved in the marriage (think of when one partner dies, being married gives the other partner power over thier estate), than I doubt homosexuals would want to take part in one your religions ceremonies what with it's history in dealing with homosexuals. What was being fought for was same-sex unions being recognized the same as a religious marriage in legal terms. I'm not a very religious man and I prefer to stay away from religions in general, but the act of expressing your love to another human by legally binding yourselves until death is named the same as a religious ceremony unfortunetly.
As for the threads topic....

Should the government be involved in marriage? In my opinion, no. While marriage was originaly the trading of a daughter and son for chattle it has become a very importnant religious ceremony in the past centuries and it should be respected as such. Should homosexuals have the right to have a union recognized the same as a religious marriage in legal terms? Yes. Being attracted to someone of the sex does not make one insane or sub-human, and if the argument of it being agiasnt nature is used than I would like to point to the numerous animals in which same-sex attraction has been evidenced in (perhaps the most amusing of which is the ram).
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I must say, I'm rather disappointed by your opening comments (though I highly doubt my approval amounts to a hill of beans to you, because why should it?). To say I find it a little less than tolerant to mock a religion by saying something like "and so far, the 10 plagues of Egypt have been pretty weak" is an understatement. You've always been a rather kind and open person, so to hear you mock my religion is shocking and if I were any more sensitive, would be a bit hurtful. Remember the rules do say to be tolerant, so please consider this when posting your personal opinions and feelings.

I personally feel that the government needs to be involved only to the point where they enforce what the people want. After all, their job is to rule BY the people and FOR the people. Instead we have had the government strong arming us into everything for the past six or seven years. This isn't progression, it's reverting to what we formed the U.S. to get away from: tyranny.

So yes, they should be involved, but only to the point that is constitutional. As for other countries? That depends on how their government was established and intended to run in the first place. If they're expected to give us everything then they have the right to determine how we use it. That's just watered down communism, but it's what the world seems to want these days.
I must say, I'm rather disappointed by your opening comments (though I highly doubt my approval amounts to a hill of beans to you, because why should it?). To say I find it a little less than tolerant to mock a religion by saying something like "and so far, the 10 plagues of Egypt have been pretty weak" is an understatement. You've always been a rather kind and open person, so to hear you mock my religion is shocking and if I were any more sensitive, would be a bit hurtful. Remember the rules do say to be tolerant, so please consider this when posting your personal opinions and feelings.

I personally feel that the government needs to be involved only to the point where they enforce what the people want. After all, their job is to rule BY the people and FOR the people. Instead we have had the government strong arming us into everything for the past six or seven years. This isn't progression, it's reverting to what we formed the U.S. to get away from: tyranny.

So yes, they should be involved, but only to the point that is constitutional. As for other countries? That depends on how their government was established and intended to run in the first place. If they're expected to give us everything then they have the right to determine how we use it. That's just watered down communism, but it's what the world seems to want these days.
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A huge concern of mine following the legalization of homosexual marriage is, as you mentioned, Christians (or any religion that disagrees with homosexual marriage, really) being forced to participate in any way.

Unfortunately, we've seen this happen on occasion already. A couple examples include a Christian couple being forced to host homosexual weddings and a Christian photographer forced to take pictures for a gay couple (I apologize for the quality of writing from the source on this last one, typos abound...).

It's good to note that, in the second article, it claims that 85% of America supports the right for Christians to refuse business to homosexual couples (in terms of marriage) if they own a private business (as both examples did). I can't see why this is an actual issue. It doesn't matter whether anyone thinks it's ok for someone to refuse service based on a belief, anyone owning their own business has the right to refuse service for any reason.

/endrant
A huge concern of mine following the legalization of homosexual marriage is, as you mentioned, Christians (or any religion that disagrees with homosexual marriage, really) being forced to participate in any way.

Unfortunately, we've seen this happen on occasion already. A couple examples include a Christian couple being forced to host homosexual weddings and a Christian photographer forced to take pictures for a gay couple (I apologize for the quality of writing from the source on this last one, typos abound...).

It's good to note that, in the second article, it claims that 85% of America supports the right for Christians to refuse business to homosexual couples (in terms of marriage) if they own a private business (as both examples did). I can't see why this is an actual issue. It doesn't matter whether anyone thinks it's ok for someone to refuse service based on a belief, anyone owning their own business has the right to refuse service for any reason.

/endrant
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Eirinn : Yes, the comment was highly sarcastic. But that's because WHENEVER something "against" religion happens, the most conservatives predict that the apocalypse will happen and go on a hate-filled rant. One televangelist said that 9/11 was caused by gays. I was addressing them, not believers in general

Just recently Ted Cruz talked about the "gay reign of terror." He has half a point when it comes to forcing bakers to make cakes at mrfe
 pointed out, but Cruz' comment is otherwise highly undeserving of a presidential candidate supposed to represent "the people" as "we" don't want to terrorize people, "we" just want to live quiet lives safe from coercion like everyone else.
Eirinn : Yes, the comment was highly sarcastic. But that's because WHENEVER something "against" religion happens, the most conservatives predict that the apocalypse will happen and go on a hate-filled rant. One televangelist said that 9/11 was caused by gays. I was addressing them, not believers in general

Just recently Ted Cruz talked about the "gay reign of terror." He has half a point when it comes to forcing bakers to make cakes at mrfe
 pointed out, but Cruz' comment is otherwise highly undeserving of a presidential candidate supposed to represent "the people" as "we" don't want to terrorize people, "we" just want to live quiet lives safe from coercion like everyone else.
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janus :

No.

Homosexuality is a complex that can come from a number of things growing up. But in the end, it's a pretty sore bandage for what other things can fix.

Some do it for fun. Sure. Some just weren't raised right by their parents and make strange conclusions on how to be happy. Of course the thought that maybe square peg doesn't fit in a round hole never crossed their mind. Maybe they just wanted attention.

I know a lot of young teens who claim to be homosexuals just for attention- they wouldn't dream of actually practicing in that kind of sex, in fact some blush at the thoughts entirely and are incredibly shy.

I'm not fooled by this "oh, you were born with it nonsense." Hey, I was born to be a pink, female marshmallow battle ship. And I'm sexually attracted to Oak Trees. I think my cat is pregnant.

Come on. Is common sense really in that short of supply? Is this a civil right's issue? Or is homosexuality just another emo vent like cheek piercings that we all just looked over in the name of "rights?"

I do know this. When humans hurt, and long for something, the unthinkable becomes plausible. In ways one cannot even imagine- till you get there.


Chindogu :


Dogs also eat cat crap. Animals have sex without consent, and do a number of other actions that I bet most humans would frown upon.

We are humans. Humans are different. And they're also morally accountable to God.

Homosexuals pursue marriage because of what it means. And it means. . . a very good thing. Imagine you walk around branded as someone on the outside, but you long to be part of the in group. To be considered. . . a decent human being. Isn't gaining that in groups approval by adopting one of their terms a reason to take it? Marriage is often considered the backbone of society. It's how families are made, and basically half the future is written by what goes on in a families home. (Now the other half is written by what you're children deal with in the Public School System.)

By taking the title of Marriage, homosexuality gets a mask of responsibility. They can come closer to the in group which rejects them, and they can function more like the rest of us. The problem is they aren't easing into the group in a passive manner exactly. Their idea seems to be pressing the issue everywhere, and now suing anyone who respectfully refuses them. But hey, if Christian's who don't like it become part of the minority, then what does it matter how you treat a minority, right?

Majority rule is how a Democracy works!

The next thing in line is adoption. This brands them as good guys even more so, and we can over look the fact that homosexuality is a biological disorder that causes diseases. Homosexual couples also apparently help with the population problem.

There are lot's of reasons that they want marriage. Even for reasons that are less than social branding. Maybe Marriage does mean something to them.

Now, you said that being attracted to someone of the same sex does not make them insane.

Excuse me- but if there was a time for me to be blunt. . .


How do you. . . . over look something like that? Human sexuality is nothing simple! It's one of the most bonding actions to humans can take part of and even results in creating another human being! Just months into marriage the different chemical and physical properties of a husband and wife bind with one another, and things like each other's scent start to turn each other one. Couple show visual signs of empathy- but the most important thing is. . .

They're different!

Males and females go together like bread and butter in life. A man's body is designed to be strong and tactful. A female is designed to be kind and nourishing. That's not a bad thing, that's just the way things are, and the only reason you should hate being one gender over the other is because of how society views you.

Jut look at how the Media clamors for a woman to have the right to kill her own child. Then 3 hours later on the same news source we'll see some famous actress in a bikini- those bikinis get smaller every year. Let's not forget that it's wrong to look at a girl in underwear, which (in some cases) actually covers more of your body, and is less "sexy" but it's okay to look at this "silver fox" "b****" "chick" or whatever animalistic, demeaning term we wish to call them by so long thier in a less covering bikini!

In America, the female gender is most prized on their beauty, and that's a huge, sexist, demeaning issue. No wonder wonder women want the right to abort, men keep getting them pregnant, of which sex is apparently the only thing they're good for!

And the highest of our entertainment fields praise this single quality above all others. Are we acting any different from animals here?

Gay Marriage is ignorant of one of the most fundamental things in marriage. And that is how a man and woman are different. How the need eachother. No, really. I can't think of one person who wouldn't be happier married, or who doesn't want to be. Those who get a (good) husband or wife are so much better off.

I am not accusing you of anything here. But . . well. maybe I can just talk to you in this thread. If I may.

Have looked at all at how different a mom an dad is?
janus :

No.

Homosexuality is a complex that can come from a number of things growing up. But in the end, it's a pretty sore bandage for what other things can fix.

Some do it for fun. Sure. Some just weren't raised right by their parents and make strange conclusions on how to be happy. Of course the thought that maybe square peg doesn't fit in a round hole never crossed their mind. Maybe they just wanted attention.

I know a lot of young teens who claim to be homosexuals just for attention- they wouldn't dream of actually practicing in that kind of sex, in fact some blush at the thoughts entirely and are incredibly shy.

I'm not fooled by this "oh, you were born with it nonsense." Hey, I was born to be a pink, female marshmallow battle ship. And I'm sexually attracted to Oak Trees. I think my cat is pregnant.

Come on. Is common sense really in that short of supply? Is this a civil right's issue? Or is homosexuality just another emo vent like cheek piercings that we all just looked over in the name of "rights?"

I do know this. When humans hurt, and long for something, the unthinkable becomes plausible. In ways one cannot even imagine- till you get there.


Chindogu :


Dogs also eat cat crap. Animals have sex without consent, and do a number of other actions that I bet most humans would frown upon.

We are humans. Humans are different. And they're also morally accountable to God.

Homosexuals pursue marriage because of what it means. And it means. . . a very good thing. Imagine you walk around branded as someone on the outside, but you long to be part of the in group. To be considered. . . a decent human being. Isn't gaining that in groups approval by adopting one of their terms a reason to take it? Marriage is often considered the backbone of society. It's how families are made, and basically half the future is written by what goes on in a families home. (Now the other half is written by what you're children deal with in the Public School System.)

By taking the title of Marriage, homosexuality gets a mask of responsibility. They can come closer to the in group which rejects them, and they can function more like the rest of us. The problem is they aren't easing into the group in a passive manner exactly. Their idea seems to be pressing the issue everywhere, and now suing anyone who respectfully refuses them. But hey, if Christian's who don't like it become part of the minority, then what does it matter how you treat a minority, right?

Majority rule is how a Democracy works!

The next thing in line is adoption. This brands them as good guys even more so, and we can over look the fact that homosexuality is a biological disorder that causes diseases. Homosexual couples also apparently help with the population problem.

There are lot's of reasons that they want marriage. Even for reasons that are less than social branding. Maybe Marriage does mean something to them.

Now, you said that being attracted to someone of the same sex does not make them insane.

Excuse me- but if there was a time for me to be blunt. . .


How do you. . . . over look something like that? Human sexuality is nothing simple! It's one of the most bonding actions to humans can take part of and even results in creating another human being! Just months into marriage the different chemical and physical properties of a husband and wife bind with one another, and things like each other's scent start to turn each other one. Couple show visual signs of empathy- but the most important thing is. . .

They're different!

Males and females go together like bread and butter in life. A man's body is designed to be strong and tactful. A female is designed to be kind and nourishing. That's not a bad thing, that's just the way things are, and the only reason you should hate being one gender over the other is because of how society views you.

Jut look at how the Media clamors for a woman to have the right to kill her own child. Then 3 hours later on the same news source we'll see some famous actress in a bikini- those bikinis get smaller every year. Let's not forget that it's wrong to look at a girl in underwear, which (in some cases) actually covers more of your body, and is less "sexy" but it's okay to look at this "silver fox" "b****" "chick" or whatever animalistic, demeaning term we wish to call them by so long thier in a less covering bikini!

In America, the female gender is most prized on their beauty, and that's a huge, sexist, demeaning issue. No wonder wonder women want the right to abort, men keep getting them pregnant, of which sex is apparently the only thing they're good for!

And the highest of our entertainment fields praise this single quality above all others. Are we acting any different from animals here?

Gay Marriage is ignorant of one of the most fundamental things in marriage. And that is how a man and woman are different. How the need eachother. No, really. I can't think of one person who wouldn't be happier married, or who doesn't want to be. Those who get a (good) husband or wife are so much better off.

I am not accusing you of anything here. But . . well. maybe I can just talk to you in this thread. If I may.

Have looked at all at how different a mom an dad is?
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Yes, society looks down upon scat and rape. Yes, that is because we are different from animals and have a very large, very intricate society with a concept of morals. About being accountable to God? You are if you believe in His existence or even doubt it. I do not believe in your god in the slightest and have no doubt about His existence so I am not accountable to Him. I am sorry if that offends you, but as you know you'll encounter people of different religions in your life and I happen to be one of them.

Yep. Marriage is persued because practically everyone in western society was taught that marriage is (next to the raising of a child) the most loving, caring, and happy act a couple can do and if they do not do it then they should feel their relationship is incomplete. About the 'in-crowd' concept. Being accepted into 'normal' society and no longer being regarded as a social leper is something everyone longs for regardless of sex, age, oreintation, religion, or interests. No one likes being glared at or having to fear assault when they walk down the street because of what they are. I myself would never want to bring a new child into this world. It is a cesspool and the way we're headed the planet won't be able to support us. As far as I'm concerned a functioning married couple, regardless of whether they are a man and woman, two men, or two women, should be able to adopt a child instead of adding to the over-population problem.

I will never understand why people want to hire services from people who disagree with thier lives on a fundamental level. Live and let live. I mean, like, just respect private business owners who refuse you wedding services because of their religion. If you want respect it needs to be earned, strong arming people does not earn you respect. At all.

Homosexuality causes diseases? I thought STDs/STIs were brought into existence by people who practice bestiality and AIDs was brought into existence by needles... Species should only stick themselves in thier own species really, and needles should not be shared. As for why the STD/STI rate is higher among homosexuals is that, for some reason, by and large homosexuals have the misconception that condoms are not needed just becuase there is no chance of pregnacy. It is often forgotten that they offer protection agaisnt these things.

I could argue that believing in an onmipresent omniscient being with magical powers makes you insane since their is no proof of His existence. However, I have more respect for you than that and will not outright mock you. If I may ask you a question, I know a few people who believe in the Bible and they say God created everyone the way thier supposed to be. My mother is one of these people. If people are born with thier sexuality, like I believe, than how do you account for God creating a homosexual? Would you believe the Devil corrupted the child in the womb or would you believe it's some sort of challenge for the individual to overcome? I'm sorry if this offends you but this is question I always find interesting to find the answer to since it varies from person to person.

You are correct: human sexuality is nothing simple. Currently we do not know what causes or controls it during an individuals development and life. I believe the argument of someone is born with thier sexuality since thats the soundest argument I've heard so far. It is undeniable that men and women are different. That men are generally strong and able to protect the ones they love. That women are generally caring and able to norture children... Do you remember the stereotypes of very feminine gay men, and very masculine gay women? It is possible for a male/female dynamic to be emulated in a same-sex relationship despite the individuals genitals being the same as thier partners. I'm not even going to try and argue Trans issues right now. I know next to nothing about this area and I do not want to unwittingly make an ass of myself. Maybe another time .

I do not see how sexism and abortions, in this context, relate to the threads topic.

Everyone knows men and women are different, that is undeniable. However, so is each human. Your right: people in a healthy relationship would probable be happier married, thats why homosexuals want the right to have their union recognized the same as a religios marriage in legal terms. So they can feel married.


I'm doing a quick proof reading now and will do a more thourough one later, there is stuff that needs doing IRL.
Yes, society looks down upon scat and rape. Yes, that is because we are different from animals and have a very large, very intricate society with a concept of morals. About being accountable to God? You are if you believe in His existence or even doubt it. I do not believe in your god in the slightest and have no doubt about His existence so I am not accountable to Him. I am sorry if that offends you, but as you know you'll encounter people of different religions in your life and I happen to be one of them.

Yep. Marriage is persued because practically everyone in western society was taught that marriage is (next to the raising of a child) the most loving, caring, and happy act a couple can do and if they do not do it then they should feel their relationship is incomplete. About the 'in-crowd' concept. Being accepted into 'normal' society and no longer being regarded as a social leper is something everyone longs for regardless of sex, age, oreintation, religion, or interests. No one likes being glared at or having to fear assault when they walk down the street because of what they are. I myself would never want to bring a new child into this world. It is a cesspool and the way we're headed the planet won't be able to support us. As far as I'm concerned a functioning married couple, regardless of whether they are a man and woman, two men, or two women, should be able to adopt a child instead of adding to the over-population problem.

I will never understand why people want to hire services from people who disagree with thier lives on a fundamental level. Live and let live. I mean, like, just respect private business owners who refuse you wedding services because of their religion. If you want respect it needs to be earned, strong arming people does not earn you respect. At all.

Homosexuality causes diseases? I thought STDs/STIs were brought into existence by people who practice bestiality and AIDs was brought into existence by needles... Species should only stick themselves in thier own species really, and needles should not be shared. As for why the STD/STI rate is higher among homosexuals is that, for some reason, by and large homosexuals have the misconception that condoms are not needed just becuase there is no chance of pregnacy. It is often forgotten that they offer protection agaisnt these things.

I could argue that believing in an onmipresent omniscient being with magical powers makes you insane since their is no proof of His existence. However, I have more respect for you than that and will not outright mock you. If I may ask you a question, I know a few people who believe in the Bible and they say God created everyone the way thier supposed to be. My mother is one of these people. If people are born with thier sexuality, like I believe, than how do you account for God creating a homosexual? Would you believe the Devil corrupted the child in the womb or would you believe it's some sort of challenge for the individual to overcome? I'm sorry if this offends you but this is question I always find interesting to find the answer to since it varies from person to person.

You are correct: human sexuality is nothing simple. Currently we do not know what causes or controls it during an individuals development and life. I believe the argument of someone is born with thier sexuality since thats the soundest argument I've heard so far. It is undeniable that men and women are different. That men are generally strong and able to protect the ones they love. That women are generally caring and able to norture children... Do you remember the stereotypes of very feminine gay men, and very masculine gay women? It is possible for a male/female dynamic to be emulated in a same-sex relationship despite the individuals genitals being the same as thier partners. I'm not even going to try and argue Trans issues right now. I know next to nothing about this area and I do not want to unwittingly make an ass of myself. Maybe another time .

I do not see how sexism and abortions, in this context, relate to the threads topic.

Everyone knows men and women are different, that is undeniable. However, so is each human. Your right: people in a healthy relationship would probable be happier married, thats why homosexuals want the right to have their union recognized the same as a religios marriage in legal terms. So they can feel married.


I'm doing a quick proof reading now and will do a more thourough one later, there is stuff that needs doing IRL.
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I have yet to see anyone explain what is to become of the (to use the USA as an example) over 1,100 benefits and right accorded to married couples. People make the mistake of assuming marriage is just about love. Wrong. Marriage is a combination of assets. It is and has been for thousands of years a legal process. If you want to dismantle that, you need a functional alternative.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rights_and_responsibilities_of_marriages_in_the_United_States
I have yet to see anyone explain what is to become of the (to use the USA as an example) over 1,100 benefits and right accorded to married couples. People make the mistake of assuming marriage is just about love. Wrong. Marriage is a combination of assets. It is and has been for thousands of years a legal process. If you want to dismantle that, you need a functional alternative.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rights_and_responsibilities_of_marriages_in_the_United_States
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Chindogu :

To say that there is an over population problem. I would need evidence. I've seen food problems, I've seen people problems, but I have never seen overpopulation problems, or proof thereof.

The problem with homosexuality is in the diseases it causes, and the unhealthy relationship it creates. A male is not biologically capable of having a good sexual relationship with another male. This is because of their physical "parts" (or lack thereof.) Or Metal build up. (A male should not enjoy having his ass penetrated- if he doesn't, they're often trading places.)

In fact, if you look at how a human being's brain is designed. . . . how is it even possible, that a man, enjoy having sex as if a woman? I don't think so. I do know how much the sex drive can urge us to do. . . strange things. Just to alleviate it though. Two 13 year old kids in a locker room? That maybe the start. Unfortunate, there are to many parents who are disconnected with their children and when the strange desires of sex first appear- they don't tell them.

I still wonder how many people really are truly gay? Many kids claim it- and then in every youtube video they put out, at the end they feel a need to talk about their current sexuality. How's it changing.

Probably some of them are- for many different reasons. Still aren't using their body in the manner it was built for. Still denying their brain it's proper sexual function, and they're just retraining it to do something perverted. I use pedophiles and bestiality as an example. In fact, why are these marked wrong but homosexuality okay? What's the real difference here?

Many a young man/woman's future was ruined in the school restroom, or even at Bimart for that manner.



I won't quote sources on the diseases homosexuality has caused, only the accounts of people that I have known. In an effort to cover it up, much like abortion claiming that a fetus isn't "human". These diseases are often times denied.

Wikipedia even had a list of them, at one point in time. I'm assuming that was removed because it wasn't favorable toward popular motive. Considering how sexual fluids easily incubate disease, I would believe it.


I find the fact that homosexuals use condoms as an excuse to have "disease free" gay sex hypocritical.

We should just do the same thing with horses.



On belief of God, all I can really say is this Universe isn't gonna come into existence on it's own. Your, or my perfect dream girl isn't gonna spawn out of nowhere right in front of our feet, no matter how much we want reality to just. . . come together.

Maybe you'd need a good reason to believe in the bible, which I respect, after all, we have quite a few different ideas written on who God is. But to say that this world just sort of came into existence? No.

God does not create homosexuality. He creates humans who make choices. I know that many people say that homosexuality is something that your born with.

Where's the mustard? No. The real proof. Not some science article for the 50th time that I'm gonna have to read all the way through, and then talk about how it violates the scientific method to reach a bias commonly affiliated with the liberal mindset of college professors.

When I ask people for proof. I'm asking for their life experience, if they have one. What they've heard from people they know. And how it matches up with what they already know. That's what I want when I have a conversation with someone.

I have honestly seldom heard of very feminized gay men. The ones I observed did a very poor job of emulating a woman too- because they were a man. Which is odd, I really did expect to see gay guys acting like women at lot at first. It's more like watching someone with a metal disorder, which. . . it is.

It's their brain not acting like it should. It's not operating in proper order or in sync with how it's built.

There's no way around it.
Chindogu :

To say that there is an over population problem. I would need evidence. I've seen food problems, I've seen people problems, but I have never seen overpopulation problems, or proof thereof.

The problem with homosexuality is in the diseases it causes, and the unhealthy relationship it creates. A male is not biologically capable of having a good sexual relationship with another male. This is because of their physical "parts" (or lack thereof.) Or Metal build up. (A male should not enjoy having his ass penetrated- if he doesn't, they're often trading places.)

In fact, if you look at how a human being's brain is designed. . . . how is it even possible, that a man, enjoy having sex as if a woman? I don't think so. I do know how much the sex drive can urge us to do. . . strange things. Just to alleviate it though. Two 13 year old kids in a locker room? That maybe the start. Unfortunate, there are to many parents who are disconnected with their children and when the strange desires of sex first appear- they don't tell them.

I still wonder how many people really are truly gay? Many kids claim it- and then in every youtube video they put out, at the end they feel a need to talk about their current sexuality. How's it changing.

Probably some of them are- for many different reasons. Still aren't using their body in the manner it was built for. Still denying their brain it's proper sexual function, and they're just retraining it to do something perverted. I use pedophiles and bestiality as an example. In fact, why are these marked wrong but homosexuality okay? What's the real difference here?

Many a young man/woman's future was ruined in the school restroom, or even at Bimart for that manner.



I won't quote sources on the diseases homosexuality has caused, only the accounts of people that I have known. In an effort to cover it up, much like abortion claiming that a fetus isn't "human". These diseases are often times denied.

Wikipedia even had a list of them, at one point in time. I'm assuming that was removed because it wasn't favorable toward popular motive. Considering how sexual fluids easily incubate disease, I would believe it.


I find the fact that homosexuals use condoms as an excuse to have "disease free" gay sex hypocritical.

We should just do the same thing with horses.



On belief of God, all I can really say is this Universe isn't gonna come into existence on it's own. Your, or my perfect dream girl isn't gonna spawn out of nowhere right in front of our feet, no matter how much we want reality to just. . . come together.

Maybe you'd need a good reason to believe in the bible, which I respect, after all, we have quite a few different ideas written on who God is. But to say that this world just sort of came into existence? No.

God does not create homosexuality. He creates humans who make choices. I know that many people say that homosexuality is something that your born with.

Where's the mustard? No. The real proof. Not some science article for the 50th time that I'm gonna have to read all the way through, and then talk about how it violates the scientific method to reach a bias commonly affiliated with the liberal mindset of college professors.

When I ask people for proof. I'm asking for their life experience, if they have one. What they've heard from people they know. And how it matches up with what they already know. That's what I want when I have a conversation with someone.

I have honestly seldom heard of very feminized gay men. The ones I observed did a very poor job of emulating a woman too- because they were a man. Which is odd, I really did expect to see gay guys acting like women at lot at first. It's more like watching someone with a metal disorder, which. . . it is.

It's their brain not acting like it should. It's not operating in proper order or in sync with how it's built.

There's no way around it.
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Sword legion : Then please explain why, as early as age 5, I felt an attraction to other guys. Tell me why my siblings, who had the same parents, "turned out" straight.

Show me peer-reviewed studies showing that it's nurtured.

"how is it even possible, that a man, enjoy having sex as if a woman?"

For your information, sex doesn't have to involve penetration

"I use pedophiles and bestiality as an example. In fact, why are these marked wrong but homosexuality okay? What's the real difference here?"

Adult consent, that's what

"I won't quote sources on the diseases homosexuality has caused"

If you're talking STDs, then most people who have them are heterosexuals
Sword legion : Then please explain why, as early as age 5, I felt an attraction to other guys. Tell me why my siblings, who had the same parents, "turned out" straight.

Show me peer-reviewed studies showing that it's nurtured.

"how is it even possible, that a man, enjoy having sex as if a woman?"

For your information, sex doesn't have to involve penetration

"I use pedophiles and bestiality as an example. In fact, why are these marked wrong but homosexuality okay? What's the real difference here?"

Adult consent, that's what

"I won't quote sources on the diseases homosexuality has caused"

If you're talking STDs, then most people who have them are heterosexuals
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janus :

I won't show you peer reviewed research, I'll tell you what I've reviewed. Cuase if it ain't good enough for me, it ain't worth tellin to nobody else!

Sex doesn't need penetration. That is true. But, it still doesn't explain those who do, and are gay.

Adult consent.

Okay, okay.

This makes no sense to me. We take our pets, we'll raise them in cages. We'll take their eggs for our own. And then we'll slaughter and eat them- all without their consent.

Animals can't give us consent? No kidding! That hasn't stopped us before with anything!

STDs are caused by unhealthy sexual activity. Now you can be a straight pervert, or you can be gay which is already perverted. Lot's of problems with sex and health come from using your bodies in ways it wasn't made to be used. I think that's common sense we can grasp onto, of course if it interferes with our personal desires. . .

The whole thing about you being 5 though when it happened. I dunno! I've seen babies want to put slugs in their mouths too though so. . . . I wouldn't worry to much about it. I've had weird desires too- and some of them I'm really glad I never got involved in!!

People make decisions. If you're the only gay person in your family, then you must have made different decisions than the rest of them. We can blame our parents but only to a certain extent. It wouldn't surprise me if they had their influence too. Probably a bit of you, and a bit of them. That's what I'd expect.
janus :

I won't show you peer reviewed research, I'll tell you what I've reviewed. Cuase if it ain't good enough for me, it ain't worth tellin to nobody else!

Sex doesn't need penetration. That is true. But, it still doesn't explain those who do, and are gay.

Adult consent.

Okay, okay.

This makes no sense to me. We take our pets, we'll raise them in cages. We'll take their eggs for our own. And then we'll slaughter and eat them- all without their consent.

Animals can't give us consent? No kidding! That hasn't stopped us before with anything!

STDs are caused by unhealthy sexual activity. Now you can be a straight pervert, or you can be gay which is already perverted. Lot's of problems with sex and health come from using your bodies in ways it wasn't made to be used. I think that's common sense we can grasp onto, of course if it interferes with our personal desires. . .

The whole thing about you being 5 though when it happened. I dunno! I've seen babies want to put slugs in their mouths too though so. . . . I wouldn't worry to much about it. I've had weird desires too- and some of them I'm really glad I never got involved in!!

People make decisions. If you're the only gay person in your family, then you must have made different decisions than the rest of them. We can blame our parents but only to a certain extent. It wouldn't surprise me if they had their influence too. Probably a bit of you, and a bit of them. That's what I'd expect.
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Sword legion : Alright, reply button was used this time. You should be summoned here...


As of this year there are an estimated 7.3 billion people on Earth with the population expanding at a rate of about 1.13% if the statistic are roughly reliable. At this rate we will, unless we start dying more frequently as we did only 100 or so years ago, use all of the Earths finite resources (water for example) before we'll be able to colonize other planets, which would ease the burden on Earth.

Please show me unbiased sources on the diseases caused by anal sex and oral sex between two men or two women specifically. I say 'two men and two women specifically' becuase we both know straight couples indulge in these acts as well.
Are you saying there are no unhealthy relationships among straight people?.. I better rethink my sisters history with men than, or the dynamic of grandparents relationship. My sister always either creates unhealhty relationships for herself or seems to find the strangest men, and my grandparents had no model relationship if a fraction of second is givin to thinking about it.

How could a man enjoy recieving anal sex? If the sphincter is stretched properly and lubrication is provided the sensation of having the prostate directly stimulated is not marred by seering pain. Its not for everyone, and some find to sensation to be 'weird' in an off putting way. Personal preference on what you like I guess, the same as how some people like the reaction thier body has to spicy food for an SFW analogy. I hate it, but one of my former friends (he moved to another country a few years ago for family reasons) absolutely loved it.

There is no way of telling how many children or teenagers are truly gay, truly bi, truly trans, or heck even truly straight. Sexuality has been desribed as being somewhat fluid, changing as one ages and has different life experiences. Some kids might grow out of wanting a sexual relationship with someone of the same sex, others won't. Some are simply 'experimenting' and trying to find out who they are. All I know is that I'm one of the people who know my sexuality, there are no doubts in my mind as to what parts I want on someone: the female sex simply does not do anything for me sexually. I can appreciate their beauty but I wouldn't want to share my bed with one.

Straight people who use condoms for the same excuse must make you shake your head than. To be blunt, there are s***s of every shape, size, and sexuality out there. You name it, theres someone trolling for it.

Why don't we do the same thing with horses? The flawed perception society holds on what is right and what is wrong says that if we do we go to jail. If this upsets you becuase it is something you would like to practice, I'm sure I can scrounge up a link or two for websites devoted to this stuff. If your using it as an example of how flawed society is in how it forbids types of sexual conduct... Most poeple would agree agaisnt your point since the concept of bestiality disgusts them, while two men or two women getting it on is easier to swallow.

I do not believe in the big bang thoery, I like the show but I'm not buying the thoery itself. Buddhism has it's own concept of how the universe came into existence. We believe that that it is and always has been. It is without beginning and without end.

Thank you for answering my question.

I suppose I can't offer you any proof than as to why people are born with thier sexuality. However, it is something that I will continue to believe in until persuasive evidence saying otherwise is shown to me.

Up until 1973 mainstream psychology regarded homosexuality as a disorder, they do not do so any longer. You may choose to believe that homosexuality is mental disorder but what is taught today in regards to it contradicts that viewpoint.
Sword legion : Alright, reply button was used this time. You should be summoned here...


As of this year there are an estimated 7.3 billion people on Earth with the population expanding at a rate of about 1.13% if the statistic are roughly reliable. At this rate we will, unless we start dying more frequently as we did only 100 or so years ago, use all of the Earths finite resources (water for example) before we'll be able to colonize other planets, which would ease the burden on Earth.

Please show me unbiased sources on the diseases caused by anal sex and oral sex between two men or two women specifically. I say 'two men and two women specifically' becuase we both know straight couples indulge in these acts as well.
Are you saying there are no unhealthy relationships among straight people?.. I better rethink my sisters history with men than, or the dynamic of grandparents relationship. My sister always either creates unhealhty relationships for herself or seems to find the strangest men, and my grandparents had no model relationship if a fraction of second is givin to thinking about it.

How could a man enjoy recieving anal sex? If the sphincter is stretched properly and lubrication is provided the sensation of having the prostate directly stimulated is not marred by seering pain. Its not for everyone, and some find to sensation to be 'weird' in an off putting way. Personal preference on what you like I guess, the same as how some people like the reaction thier body has to spicy food for an SFW analogy. I hate it, but one of my former friends (he moved to another country a few years ago for family reasons) absolutely loved it.

There is no way of telling how many children or teenagers are truly gay, truly bi, truly trans, or heck even truly straight. Sexuality has been desribed as being somewhat fluid, changing as one ages and has different life experiences. Some kids might grow out of wanting a sexual relationship with someone of the same sex, others won't. Some are simply 'experimenting' and trying to find out who they are. All I know is that I'm one of the people who know my sexuality, there are no doubts in my mind as to what parts I want on someone: the female sex simply does not do anything for me sexually. I can appreciate their beauty but I wouldn't want to share my bed with one.

Straight people who use condoms for the same excuse must make you shake your head than. To be blunt, there are s***s of every shape, size, and sexuality out there. You name it, theres someone trolling for it.

Why don't we do the same thing with horses? The flawed perception society holds on what is right and what is wrong says that if we do we go to jail. If this upsets you becuase it is something you would like to practice, I'm sure I can scrounge up a link or two for websites devoted to this stuff. If your using it as an example of how flawed society is in how it forbids types of sexual conduct... Most poeple would agree agaisnt your point since the concept of bestiality disgusts them, while two men or two women getting it on is easier to swallow.

I do not believe in the big bang thoery, I like the show but I'm not buying the thoery itself. Buddhism has it's own concept of how the universe came into existence. We believe that that it is and always has been. It is without beginning and without end.

Thank you for answering my question.

I suppose I can't offer you any proof than as to why people are born with thier sexuality. However, it is something that I will continue to believe in until persuasive evidence saying otherwise is shown to me.

Up until 1973 mainstream psychology regarded homosexuality as a disorder, they do not do so any longer. You may choose to believe that homosexuality is mental disorder but what is taught today in regards to it contradicts that viewpoint.
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(edited by Chindogu on 08-29-15 11:14 AM)    

08-29-15 08:48 AM
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Sword legion : "I won't show you peer reviewed research, I'll tell you what I've reviewed. Cuase if it ain't good enough for me, it ain't worth tellin to nobody else!"

Then it's worthless. Just like believers in global warming pointing out at EVERY SINGLE weather "extreme" to prove their hypothesis, your observational points do not make science.
Sword legion : "I won't show you peer reviewed research, I'll tell you what I've reviewed. Cuase if it ain't good enough for me, it ain't worth tellin to nobody else!"

Then it's worthless. Just like believers in global warming pointing out at EVERY SINGLE weather "extreme" to prove their hypothesis, your observational points do not make science.
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08-31-15 07:40 AM
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Sword legion : "I won't show you peer reviewed research, I'll tell you what I've reviewed. Cuase if it ain't good enough for me, it ain't worth tellin to nobody else!"

Well, that ends this whole debate.

janus :  

Are you claiming that global warming believers in general can only point to ever single weather extreme to prove their hypothesis? Because if so, and you also claim to believe in peer-reviewed studies, then you are contradicting yourself tremendously. 
Sword legion : "I won't show you peer reviewed research, I'll tell you what I've reviewed. Cuase if it ain't good enough for me, it ain't worth tellin to nobody else!"

Well, that ends this whole debate.

janus :  

Are you claiming that global warming believers in general can only point to ever single weather extreme to prove their hypothesis? Because if so, and you also claim to believe in peer-reviewed studies, then you are contradicting yourself tremendously. 
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(edited by Light Knight on 09-01-15 08:51 AM)    

09-12-15 11:53 AM
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Light Knight :

janus :


The day Peer Reviewed research, and experts in a building paid millions of dollars to preach what the system wants them too overrides common sense, and that I observe on my own is when I will go with them.


No one will make me, or any other free thinker believe differently when your own observations tell us otherwise. I refuse to be a tool. The effects homosexuality has had on my own friends and family is too real. To deny it would be a foolish gesture, but, perhaps if sinners all agree on the same lie, they would feel comforted.

Abortion was the last generations fad, promoted in schools and then some.

Today, it is homosexuality, which is now considered family friendly. Kindof like smoking.

How can you trust a system of people you don't even know personally? Perhaps there is truth in what some of these people say, but if you can't verify it for yourself, then it's worthless. The harmful effects of homosexuality is something that you can. You don't need peer reviewed research when you can see what it does on your own. It's not a great thing having family members who are gay either, I asure you.

For some reason though, we can't just look at it, and say. "Yeah, that's something that only an idiot would do. It's very clearly something the human body isn't designed for." Instead people actually have to test it out and call it a sane behavior. The harmful effects may not surface for 20 more years.


Chindogu :

I would say there are unhealthy relationships between straight couples. I mean, hey, how far do you want to go? Do you just go crazy? Does any desire between man and wife become justified? Or are their boundaries not to be crossed which bear consequences if we do so?

I would certainly say the later.

Because of the nature of homosexual couples though, mostly in the fact they lack the proper tools to procreate. Then in taking other routes their body isn't designed to handle, whatever that may be, they get sick. It might take years, but it does eventually happen.

I keep coming back to the same point.

Your body is not designed for these actions. People are repulsed by homosexuality as naturally as they are repulsed by the thought of eating your own refuse, or taking another human beings life. It's not natural, and it's damaging to your brain on an intimate and emotional level.

Spicy food could be considered similarly, I suppose. But a much larger amount of the population enjoys spicy foods. More so than who enjoy Gay sex. Let's think about how different these two actions are now. Come on. Spicy foods have much shorter term effects than the intimacy and psychological endeavor of homosexuality. Spicy foods make you hiccup for a while and that's about it. A lot of spicy foods have a lot of good things inside of them for you too. Perhaps this is the plants natural defense against being eaten. Like the pain involved with many other things in life, we overlook it- or even enjoy the challenge of it for the benefit.

Gay penetration on the other hand. I'm not sure how much more clear it could be that the body. .. isn't designed to do this. It's the wrong organ. Wrong place. Peppers are a kindof food filled with vitamins, that it wants to keep all for itself.

You see the difference.

Sexuality changes over age? Life experience? Sounds like a typical teen just trying to find his place in this world and operating on emotion and not so much common sense. Maybe if the sex drive were taken care of, it would be less of a burden on him. In fact, you could blame a lot of the stupidity they perform on this extremely powerful drive to begin with.

If only it made them want to hurry up, be responsible and get a house and job so that they could have a woman. But hey, responsibility is hard and all, and if you're 13, want sex that badly, just for a few moments of relief. . . why not give homosexuality a try?

Hey. It's not like anyone can find out. It's even safer than looking up porn! Unlike porn, where the evidence can appear on you're parent's, PC's search history, or start showing up in adds. You can get it on with one other desperate teen. . . and with the homosexuality movement getting more popular. . kids won't even be ashamed to do it anymore!

People don't realize, or they won't remember/ admit what it was like to be 13. Masturbating, and whatnot. All the temptations. And parents give so little guidance. It's no wonder a generation of kids grew up thinking that it was okay to be gay. (If the school system and teachers didn't hammer it into them.)

I will never deny that straight people can be perverts as much as homosexual people. What I will never understand is how anyone can say that actions, that the human body is not designed for are just fine. No one talks about real psychology, and everything is justified. The way a human's mind works in harmony is no longer is important, just how it can be manipulated.

All unclean acts of sex between any two individuals, I would condemn. Or a human and an animal for that matter. It's not what the human brain is designed for. I'm sorry, but it's just too exact, and there is no way two of the same gendered people could truely be complete with that as their relationship.

Even if they don't have any "problems" they're still missing the elements a straight relationship has to offer.

The man who takes the cheap path, and then buys this. . .stupid emotional decision that by some strange genetic defect, that his groin belongs up another mans ass, then he's a moron.


"Oh, I'm gay! I must be! I can feel it!" They all say.

No.

They change their opinion every three months. It's very clearly instigated in their genes at that point. I mean, yeah, the minute they became thirteen they wanted to hump a guy.

No wait, actually, we were willing to hump anything when we were 13- cause we didn't know what the heck we were actually doing! We had no idea what the heck it was, because our parents didn't care. Or, maybe we did, and we were just stupid.


No one ever talks about this. Instead, it's just. "Oh, you're gay? Guess I have to believe you since you said it. It's genetic after all."

Do. . . do the people who claim it's genetic even understand how it works? Do they really actually have a concept on how genes work?!? Can they explain it? Or is it just this great scientific myth that only the high priests can explain it and we just have to go by?

Or maybe we're afraid to be an outcast cause we don't agree with the group?

So, you can have a the genes of a guy, the organs in your body that create larger amounts of testosterone than is found in women, and the physical make up of a male's body- But be attracted to girls? And your just born this way?

No. I don't think so. I think someone just want free sex, or is very, very confused.

Regardless of what the so genius wonderful experts who make big fat checks off saying whatever the current agenda is. I will believe homosexuality is a mental disorder because it is an unnatural set of actions that causes suffering to the individual. Even the "experts" cannot change the definition of that word. They have no right to. They can make themselves look stupid though if they want to. But hey, if correct, and incorrect lies in their hands then they can make whatever they want the truth. So what do they have to worry about?

Sorry, but I'm pretty sure that there is plenty of water to go around, when talking about over population. You see. . the water that we use. . . it gets recycled through nature. And I'm pretty sure, (like we've done in the past) If we need more water we'll just make our own freshwater sources like we have in the past. It's not big deal. More people. . . will always find ways to support. . . more people. That's the thing about population growth. The growth creates support for more growth. And it keeps going.



Light Knight :

janus :


The day Peer Reviewed research, and experts in a building paid millions of dollars to preach what the system wants them too overrides common sense, and that I observe on my own is when I will go with them.


No one will make me, or any other free thinker believe differently when your own observations tell us otherwise. I refuse to be a tool. The effects homosexuality has had on my own friends and family is too real. To deny it would be a foolish gesture, but, perhaps if sinners all agree on the same lie, they would feel comforted.

Abortion was the last generations fad, promoted in schools and then some.

Today, it is homosexuality, which is now considered family friendly. Kindof like smoking.

How can you trust a system of people you don't even know personally? Perhaps there is truth in what some of these people say, but if you can't verify it for yourself, then it's worthless. The harmful effects of homosexuality is something that you can. You don't need peer reviewed research when you can see what it does on your own. It's not a great thing having family members who are gay either, I asure you.

For some reason though, we can't just look at it, and say. "Yeah, that's something that only an idiot would do. It's very clearly something the human body isn't designed for." Instead people actually have to test it out and call it a sane behavior. The harmful effects may not surface for 20 more years.


Chindogu :

I would say there are unhealthy relationships between straight couples. I mean, hey, how far do you want to go? Do you just go crazy? Does any desire between man and wife become justified? Or are their boundaries not to be crossed which bear consequences if we do so?

I would certainly say the later.

Because of the nature of homosexual couples though, mostly in the fact they lack the proper tools to procreate. Then in taking other routes their body isn't designed to handle, whatever that may be, they get sick. It might take years, but it does eventually happen.

I keep coming back to the same point.

Your body is not designed for these actions. People are repulsed by homosexuality as naturally as they are repulsed by the thought of eating your own refuse, or taking another human beings life. It's not natural, and it's damaging to your brain on an intimate and emotional level.

Spicy food could be considered similarly, I suppose. But a much larger amount of the population enjoys spicy foods. More so than who enjoy Gay sex. Let's think about how different these two actions are now. Come on. Spicy foods have much shorter term effects than the intimacy and psychological endeavor of homosexuality. Spicy foods make you hiccup for a while and that's about it. A lot of spicy foods have a lot of good things inside of them for you too. Perhaps this is the plants natural defense against being eaten. Like the pain involved with many other things in life, we overlook it- or even enjoy the challenge of it for the benefit.

Gay penetration on the other hand. I'm not sure how much more clear it could be that the body. .. isn't designed to do this. It's the wrong organ. Wrong place. Peppers are a kindof food filled with vitamins, that it wants to keep all for itself.

You see the difference.

Sexuality changes over age? Life experience? Sounds like a typical teen just trying to find his place in this world and operating on emotion and not so much common sense. Maybe if the sex drive were taken care of, it would be less of a burden on him. In fact, you could blame a lot of the stupidity they perform on this extremely powerful drive to begin with.

If only it made them want to hurry up, be responsible and get a house and job so that they could have a woman. But hey, responsibility is hard and all, and if you're 13, want sex that badly, just for a few moments of relief. . . why not give homosexuality a try?

Hey. It's not like anyone can find out. It's even safer than looking up porn! Unlike porn, where the evidence can appear on you're parent's, PC's search history, or start showing up in adds. You can get it on with one other desperate teen. . . and with the homosexuality movement getting more popular. . kids won't even be ashamed to do it anymore!

People don't realize, or they won't remember/ admit what it was like to be 13. Masturbating, and whatnot. All the temptations. And parents give so little guidance. It's no wonder a generation of kids grew up thinking that it was okay to be gay. (If the school system and teachers didn't hammer it into them.)

I will never deny that straight people can be perverts as much as homosexual people. What I will never understand is how anyone can say that actions, that the human body is not designed for are just fine. No one talks about real psychology, and everything is justified. The way a human's mind works in harmony is no longer is important, just how it can be manipulated.

All unclean acts of sex between any two individuals, I would condemn. Or a human and an animal for that matter. It's not what the human brain is designed for. I'm sorry, but it's just too exact, and there is no way two of the same gendered people could truely be complete with that as their relationship.

Even if they don't have any "problems" they're still missing the elements a straight relationship has to offer.

The man who takes the cheap path, and then buys this. . .stupid emotional decision that by some strange genetic defect, that his groin belongs up another mans ass, then he's a moron.


"Oh, I'm gay! I must be! I can feel it!" They all say.

No.

They change their opinion every three months. It's very clearly instigated in their genes at that point. I mean, yeah, the minute they became thirteen they wanted to hump a guy.

No wait, actually, we were willing to hump anything when we were 13- cause we didn't know what the heck we were actually doing! We had no idea what the heck it was, because our parents didn't care. Or, maybe we did, and we were just stupid.


No one ever talks about this. Instead, it's just. "Oh, you're gay? Guess I have to believe you since you said it. It's genetic after all."

Do. . . do the people who claim it's genetic even understand how it works? Do they really actually have a concept on how genes work?!? Can they explain it? Or is it just this great scientific myth that only the high priests can explain it and we just have to go by?

Or maybe we're afraid to be an outcast cause we don't agree with the group?

So, you can have a the genes of a guy, the organs in your body that create larger amounts of testosterone than is found in women, and the physical make up of a male's body- But be attracted to girls? And your just born this way?

No. I don't think so. I think someone just want free sex, or is very, very confused.

Regardless of what the so genius wonderful experts who make big fat checks off saying whatever the current agenda is. I will believe homosexuality is a mental disorder because it is an unnatural set of actions that causes suffering to the individual. Even the "experts" cannot change the definition of that word. They have no right to. They can make themselves look stupid though if they want to. But hey, if correct, and incorrect lies in their hands then they can make whatever they want the truth. So what do they have to worry about?

Sorry, but I'm pretty sure that there is plenty of water to go around, when talking about over population. You see. . the water that we use. . . it gets recycled through nature. And I'm pretty sure, (like we've done in the past) If we need more water we'll just make our own freshwater sources like we have in the past. It's not big deal. More people. . . will always find ways to support. . . more people. That's the thing about population growth. The growth creates support for more growth. And it keeps going.



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