Disagree wholeheartedly. If someone doesn't wanna kid they shouldn't be bound to have it, that's why there are tons of bad parents because they never wanted the kid in the first place. So then when said unwanted kid born he grows up to be a hood rat or a freak or a murderer or a misfit because of not being wanted. There's no point of that happening and being a burden to everyone else in life because of not having the abortion she wanted. The only alternative is if she was willing to have the baby and immediately put up for adoption for someone who does want a child.

UFC : One word: Contraceptives. They are easy to find and are much cheaper than an abortion. You can go to pretty much any drug store and buy a condom for a dollar. If you don't want a child, then don't get pregnant.

tgags123 : That takes all the enjoyment out of it, you may as well not even do it then. As for the day and night pill, I think it's pretty obvious that a lot of poor people that have sex or live in the ghetto either have no money to get it or don't care, either way I don't want there little unwanted rugrat being a burden to everyone else because of it.

And when I said alternatively have the baby and give it up for adoption, that's also her choice because unfortunately having a baby isn't as easy as doing some crunches or taking a leak, it hurts like hell, makes you fatter, you can't work for a long time and it's a misery so you better be really committed to wanting a kid if you are gonna go through it.

UFC : So it is ok to kill the baby because it is an inconvenience to the mother? My brother annoys me you don't see me killing him. If you get pregnant, then you need to take responsibility for your actions or put them up for adoption.

tgags123 : Well this is what is known as an intellectual impasse, You're argument is simply one of semantics now, I'm not going to argue about what is called what, it's completely irrelevant.

I specifically wanted you to explain WHY terminating a 20 week old fetus, which has yet to form a consciousness or an ability of awareness is an immoral thing to do,(and by immoral I mean causing harm to another human being) and your response was basically: fetuses are babies, killing babies is bad, therefore it's bad. It's redundant and doesn't address the issue at all.

I seriously doubt there will be any further progress in this discussion, because this is always where the discussion hit's the semantics gutter.

You might think that I support the murder of children, but just know I don't have any ill-will towards you, I was just pleased to have a small debate, and wish you well.

tgags123 : Yep, terminate the kid before it's turned into a hoodlum or a messed up kid with bad parents. You don't need to take responsibility for having fun or your actions that's the beauty of abortion, it prevents a lifelong mistake. Also people who get raped sometimes are impregnated by the person who did that to them so I guess they are committed now to having his kid? my god. You aren't coming from any rational point of you, you are coming from an emotional point of you instead of one that properly uses your brain and logic. And the difference about your silly brother argument is that you don't have to raise your brother and for a long time at that and pay for him and love him. Also i'll assume he is what, 13 or something? Once you actually are born it's too late now you have to live with the consequences it's over for you to turn back now.

UFC : In response to your last point, why does it make a difference if the baby is born or not? It is still a living human whether it is still in the uterus or not.

 tgags123: That's debatable, nothing really is living unless they exist in the same world as everyone else not just in one mother, it's not like the population is based on unborn babies as well. In a few years you will get it, you don't know the ramifications of these things yet and what these people turn out to be and how they are conceived and quite frankly I haven't a clue why you are 14 and wanting to debate something like abortion. Most people don't waste there time with issues like this til they are at least 16.

UFC : Because it is something that I have a strong opinion on and I like to share that opinion. You think I am too young to talk about something that has to do with sex?

tgags123 : Yes mainly because you don't get it like people older like myself do yet, you will get it but not yet. I don't talk about things I haven't experienced and in most cases a lot because it makes me sound uninformed. In fact this conversation alone bores me because I don't really care about the issue i'm a guy so it doesn't really affect me much at all.

tgags123 : It's not about age, it's about maturity and understanding. You consistently get the most basic of terminology wrong, then when you're called on it, you resort to silly emotional appeals. A fetus is not a baby and cannot be a baby until it is born. That is an undeniable fact. You need to learn the basic terminology surrounding pregnancy before you can comment on it.

Inevitably your argument boils down to "abortion is killing people and you should feel bad and it should be illegal". But that's not a legal argument, and it's not a biological argument, and it's not certainly not a logical argument. You make wild claims and never back them up. You think a human is created at conception? I don't. A fertilized egg is not a human being, and it's certainly not a person. Why should anyone even consider your opinion if you can't back it up yourself?

I think that people who already have the belief that abortion is okay can't be persuaded of their wrongness because they don't have any higher standard than themselves (or "society," meaning, people like themselves). Despite there being obvious evidence to the fact, they will not believe. However, I hold to a higher standard set up by God that says we are to respect life, and I cannot be persuaded that abortion is right. I hope that those who hold to an opposing standard will one day be convinced, but because an atheist sees no purpose in life except pleasure and things that lead to pleasure in life (while I believe in a life after,), anything that gets in the way of that pleasure is wrong by their standard. So, if you are an atheist, I agree with you: from your perspective, abortion is entirely okay. However, I personally believe that abortion is very wrong.

I for one believe that a woman's right to choose is a higher standard than me or my religious beliefs.

Traduweise :

"You can call it what a you like: fetus, human being, parasite. That's not really important."

1 You avoided the question If you don't answer it then I'm not responding to you.

2 It's not important? Indentification is incredibly important. If it's a human, don't kill
it. If it's not, then don't kill it!

Brigand :

"I for one believe that a woman's right to choose is a higher standard than me or my religious beliefs."

Then don't post your belief that your belief is unimportant.

UFC :

He's debating it because he actually cares about right and wrong even for his age. It's
something kinda lacking in our youth today, you are attacking his character because he's giving
you a decent fight, the funny thing is, they always wait until I start 
to get ground on them to do it . . . 

If it's not a human, then what is it?


"nothing really is living unless they exist in the same world as everyone else not just in one mother"

How about a chicken in an egg about to hatch? It's not in it's mother.

I have one question for you: What are the grounds that you use to justify abortion?

Is it not human?

Is it not intelligent?



If you dodge this question, then there is no reason for a debate because you only
want to talk, not debate. Nice userpic! Han Solo is really cool.

Sword legion :   Your question is irrelevent. I've already addressed it several times in this thread. Abortion is not murder because murder is not defined that way. A woman's bodily autonomy trumps the "rights" a fetus, or anyone else for that matter, has to use her body. Et cetera.

My opinion on abortion...I think it is pretty wrong since a child's life is going to waste. If you can't take care of a child, then put him or her to a foster home.
...But I am not completely against it either. Some women abort for different reasons, and having to deal with having a child may be too much for them...
That's just my thought...

Sword legion : Your questions are and responses are very amateur to say the least, an egg about to hatch for one is not in the chicken anymore so already that is a huge difference and also people eat eggs so it really is beyond a moot point. I already said my reasons for abortion read the thread if you wanna find out. And no it's not han solo in my profile picture you couldn't be more wrong on that too.

Sword legion :

I post whatever I feel like posting if I wish.

Brigand:

Good way to spam and get banned.

UFC :


"Your questions are and responses are very amateur to say the least"

This is an attempt at an insult. Could you please be more courteous?


"an egg about to hatch for one is not in the chicken anymore so already that is a huge difference"

I don't see why location is relevent at all.
Could you please explain?


"and also people eat eggs so it really is beyond a moot point."


Thank you for calling that a moot point. I really appreciate the friendly conduct.
Yes, people eat eggs, but this example is not about whether it's OK to eat a chicken, an
egg, or a chick. 



"And no it's not han solo in my profile picture you couldn't be more wrong on that too."

You posted this in such a way as to be irritating and nit-picky.
Maybe I should say this in response:

"Well you forgot to Capitalize the "H" and the "S" in the name "Han Solo"

I tried to give you compliment.
Could you please make more courteous conduct?

Traduweise :

It is important, because if it is a human
then you can't just kill it without a reason.

"We kill things every day. Yesterday I had pork for dinner. Today I swatted a mosquito. You're not making any sense."




"And no, a fetus is not a child. Because a child is defined as a human that is older than a baby, but has not yet reached puberty."

By this definition, a fetus is a baby because it has yet reached puberty.


"You seem to have a problem understanding some of these basic definitions.
I would recommend doing a little research into the topic at hand before posting again."

You always post this in debates as if you know everything, and have done all the research that is necessary
yourself. You always post as if everyone else is stupid or something. Is that what you think of others who
differ from your opinion?

"Who cares. It's a clump of developing cells. If a fetus is a human, so is a tumour. Is it also wrong to have a mole surgically removed?"

A fetus is created by two humans having sexual intercourse. 


"A tumour is not a person, and yet it has the same human DNA that any fetus does. Trying to argue that human DNA makes it wrong to have an abortion makes as much sense as claiming that by scratching my nose, I am killing hundreds of people."

Tumours and moles are caused by abnormalities.


"And abortion is not murder. Murder is illegal, and abortion is not."

Just because it's legal doesn't make it right.


"That's completely irrelevent. Murder is a legal term not a moral one"
"If fetuses were legally declared persons and abortion were outlawed, then abortion would be murder."

Incorrect. Religions use murder as a term for killing an innocent.




"All these people on the thread ranting about abortion being murder are using the term for shock effect: it just sounds more brutal and unpleasant that way."

Like how you used the term homophobia in that other thread?


"It's a rather paltry attempt sway people emotionally without having to make a reasoned argument."

Then throw your emotions in the garbage if they are really all that useless.
The Greeks actually had debates that utilized emotion. If I recall correctly, it was
classified as a "Pathos' debate. 


"But, as I said, abortion is a legal term. It is not necessarily about what is right or wrong."

Laws are made because of what people consider right or wrong.


"You could have simply asked how I would have felt if my mother had aborted me. Instead, you have to throw in a scene where you stab my mother in the stomach. Because apparently, it's ok to say "well I'm going to stab your mother" as a reasonable rebutal to someone who supports legal abortions. "

"Is it really impossible for you to make a logical argument instead of using such exaggerated language as a crutch?"

Name calling.


"If I had been aborted, I wouldn't have experienced sentience or life on this world.
As a result, it would be impossible for me to feel regret, or anything else. I would simply never have existed."

Your ability to feel emotions is what decides whether it is murder or not?
If someone is killed, then they can't feel anymore. Should murder be legal then?


"Pregnancy is not the same as being on life support because a woman's body is not a machine whose purpose is to keep others alive"

It can do all that and so much more. 


"Come back when you have your own and are finished with the hysterical hand-waving."

Insulting people.