I hate it when people try to "convert" me to anything.

It's utterly innapropriate in pretty much any case.

I was just offering another way to look at things. Convert prolly wasn't the most appropriate word.

I think "infuence" was more the word you were looking for. (by the way I finaly wrot somthing in the Bible forum, and will soon be explaining why I beleive in the Bible)

Originally posted by John

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But let’s say you don’t believe in god and he does exist. Look at what you have lost. You now spend eternity in hell. Pretty sad, because you've lost out on everything.

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This is flawed. If God is real, then nonbelievers are sent to Purgatory. But then again, some consider Purgatory to be something made up by the Church to make people feel more confident in salvation. Either way, Purgatory doesn't sound that bad. You get to hang out with Plato and Socrates and folk. No punishment involved, just somber regret which I could bear.

Um, you can sort of tell that you don't really get what you're talking about, Nasus. Purgatory isn't fun, but it isn't hell. You see, heaven is this land of endless entertainment and bliss, hell is this place where everybody is in pain and everything is bad, and pergatory is a concious void. I heard it described that people who aren't good enough to go to heaven just wait in this place
and every year one person goes to heaven. Now, seeing as plenty of people havent made it, i would not be happy there.
Oh, and that's a nice theory, John, but you didn't make it up. It makes sense, and it does a very good job scaring people into church, but the truth is that the Church does not represent god accurately. There are some things that church says are bad(homosexuality, sex), which are obviously not bad. My point is just that church isn't the real word of god, and neither is the bible.
Look, if you believe in god, you believe in a real, spiritual quintessence of good, not in a book; not in a human organization; not in ten phrases scratched into stone; If your primary belief is god, and some of the stuff that is said in these MAN-MADE things is bulls***, why would you follow them at all?

Here's my point: If god is the perfect judge, he will forgive those who deserve to be forgiven, and if, on judgement day, you meet god, and you're like, "gee, i really wish i believed in you, sorry, man, i was mislead into thinking you were just a load of crap," Do you actually think he would punish you?

Damn straight he would punish your ass. You f***ed up, and now you pay. For example.....
'I didn't know that if i went 100 miles an hour around the corner on ice i would crash my car. I was mislead into thinking the tires had lots of traction.'
gesh

Take it easy there John, don't get mad at ninja. Ok ninja... I can see were your coming from, and I agree that the church deosn't really represent God... have the things they teach are usualy tradition and only there to scare people in doing good. But let's say the Bible IS inspired by God ok, lets say I proov to you that it's real after I explain it in the Bible forum... what will you do? Will you follow what God says in it?

John, don't be silly. God doesn't just punish your ass because you f***ed up. He's all-loving and forgiving. If you crash your car into Jesus and you kill him, God will still forgive you if you're sorry for it. God isn't about vengeance, man; He's all about looove!

Knight, thanks for getting my point, but you have to see about the bible: It wasn't written by god, it was written by people who believed in him. I guess 'inspired' is a key word, but since it wasn't written by god, the bible is just as real as every other religious scripture, you know?

No, you have to pray to forgiveness from Jesus.....

And how did this get so off subject? Look at my theory, its a great theory. And you people are to arrogant and ignorant to even look at it.

Nope, we just completely disagree.

Ninja, I think you might of missunderstood the word "inspired" yes it was written by men but the way the sriptures put it, God was the one whole put it in there harts. Now I know you're thinking: "the writters probobly just wrote that to make people believe it" but there is more solid evidence. And as I have been saying for the past week, but never actually get around to doing it, I will explain that evidence in the Bible forum. But I have to write it all first, and it takes some time.

Dude, John, THINK! Christianity is a bad example, because the Christian God FORGIVES YOU!!! It does NOT mean that you get thrown into hell just for not believing in him! besides, if forums are about just staying on topic, that would be boring. Shouldnt we go further? I mean we got into a good discussion, having already talked about your theory. That was the value of it; it made us think. I hate that "WOAH! INDEPENDANT THOUGHT! Get back on topic!" bulls***. I think thought is good.

I don't actually believe either side. I am neutral. I am sick of having people believing there is only 2 sides(good and evil)

I find that you SadowMaster are a very reasonalble person. Most people think theres the two sides, believe in God, your saved, don't, your not. So they put blind faith in God. To believe in God one should know he is real by solid proof, AND believing in him isin't enough, one should do what he tells, cause one can believe in satan but deos it mean he folows him? So really there isn't just believing and not, theres all inbetwen: what one believe Gad requires of us; and when it comes to that the opinions are endless.