I won't waste your guy's time with a long intro or some back story to the question, I'll just say it out right and state my opinion. Backstory below the question.


Ok, so is good enough, as society calls it, REALLY good enough? I mean, should we expect more?


And I say, yes, and more over, we should demand more. If I may, let's look at home design in real life, compared to home design in Minecraft (bear with me).


In real life, you can put a chair on one side of the room, and have it off kilter or somehow slightly wrong. "Good enough." You will say. Or the classic book-under-the-table-leg. "It works." But, should we expect MORE from ourselves? Now look at Minecraft. If you are building a fancy-shmancy house, one where you can waste hours on looks and looks alone, then if you get that chair just one block off center, you will go INSANE trying to fix it. If your table is off, then you'll spend an hour fixing THE WHOLE HOUSE.


Straying away from video games, let's talk about cars (In here, replace the word car with any other tool or appliance). Modern cars you get from Japan, you can practically put a dent in with your fist, not to mention they look about as stylish as a pig with lipstick. And can be hacked. Fun. Now jump back to 1970 with me. The Dodge Dart. Now, Dodge could have said, "Screw it, make crappy cars, who cares, there's a sucker born every half of a second." or "Eh, good enough." But no. They put in leather interior, optional convertable tops, and the most iconic HIP (High Impact Paint) colors the world has ever known. Look around the entire industry. This is what they do! And they're made out of metal, so it's pretty dang hard to total one of these bad boys. Cadilac, Lincoln, Dodge, Chevy, heck, even Volkswagons looked cool. You want some proof? PEOPLE STILL DRIVE THEM TODAY. If that doesn't convince you, I don't know what will.


Now let's wonder why this is happening to modern society, why we can't get a decent car or even tooth brush. If you ask me, it's because we put up with it. We buy the cruddy junk Japan sells us, we buy the TV's that'll ware out in two years, we say this is the new age. It's not, guys. If we would put our foot down and say, "No, I will not accept this, I demand more, and until you give more to me, I will not buy your product." Just like a child, they will soon learn that you will not help them if they do not help themselves. And, it's a win-win for us. If they are smart enough to say, "Guys, we need to send out quality products!" then our mission is accomplished and we get quality supplies. If they DON'T change, then they go out of business, never to curse another person with their cruddy workman-ship. Here's another reason we can't buy decent stuff anymore. It's FROM Japan!!! Let's stop inporting our goods, let's stop being at the mercy of Japan! Let's make everything HERE!!! It would create jobs and boost the economy, and when the war with Japan comes (AND IT'S A COMING) we can be self-sufficient. In fact, let's do EVERYTHING here. Oil, steel, lumber, EVERYTHING.


So what do you guys think? Anyone agree? Anyone disagree? Let me know.

Super Mega Man 568 :  Would have liked your post, but I hit my limit. Anyways, yeah I pretty much agree with you there. I really feel that we get, "good enough" because we accept it. That is exactly what happened in the game industry if you ask me. What if we all got together on this and stopped buying okay product. If we accept it, that's what we'll get. But, there is another dimension to this here question.


What about ourselves? Do we accept our work as good enough? Or do we drive for better? What if we all drove to do better to be better? Then, just perhaps, we wouldn't have to accept half-done jobs, because everyone is always trying hard to be better. Just a thought.

FaithFighter :

On your comment about the video game industry: Thought of that, didn't have time to type it.

On your comment about ourselves: Yes, that is very true, and I myself am a victim of this (I'm a hypocrite, sue me). Mostly not because it's "Good enough." As much as "Eh, I don't feel like doing it." And, I think that really IS society in a nut shell. "Screw it, too lazy." America wasn't based on "Good enough." it was based on "How can I make it better?" Something Japan as a culture lacks. I'm not prejudice, but I'm saying that is not a part of their culture. They, as a people, are told to be content, or say that something is "Good enough."

Super Mega Man 568 : We all are guilty of the "good enough" excuse. We all have done that from time to time or made it a habit in certain areas, and GOD knows I'm not any better than the rest on that. But HE also knows that I am trying to not be good enough but better every day. If i'm satisfied with "good enough" will I ever grow?

Hmm...the way you went off toward the end about how everything is bad because it's from Japan sounded more like you just hate Japan than the idea of "good enough". Still to answer the question: good enough is good enough if you're okay with it. Some of us have higher standards however, and I'm one of those people. I try to make sure I go above and beyond the needed amount of work when I do something, because mediocre just doesn't cut it for me.

As for what you did say... You realize that means no more Nintendo, and that Megaman, Mario, and many other greats came from Japan (Sony systems as well). In fact they made the industry.


FaithFighter : Actually, the market began seeing the problems that I think you're talking about when the Westerners got into it. Before that games were a lot cleaner and original (we went from Mario, Pac Man, Megaman, Metroid, Donkey Kong, etc. to 3,000 CoD and Halo titles and clones and tons of filth in games). Though granted, I'm not entirely sure where Metroid and Megaman came from, I do know that the "creator" of Megaman is Asian.

Eirinn : This wasn't a "I hate Japan thread." far from it. Like I pointed out, when you look at Japanese culture, they don't have the same way things as we do. In their country, society is broken up into social classes, and you are constantly told to be content with what you have and never strive for better. In America, or at least in another time in America (1970) we were told to work harder and create more, because that's what makes a great nation.

About the part with not outsourcing everything, I mean from ALL countries, not just Japan. If you ask me, we have all the materials and knowledge to be completely independent, so why shouldn't we be?

There are two things that I will eternally thank Japan for: Martial Arts (Mostly Jutsu) and video games. Those two things make Japan worth having around, but I don't think we should be completely dependant on them.

Super Mega Man 568 :  If you said "China", now that would've made much more sense  "Good" however, is in the eye of the beholder.  

SoL@R : I'm not talking about "Good" In the sense of, say, to me Pokemon is an AMAZING game, but to someone else it's not, I'm talking about, say... "Good enough, functional, I won't mess with it anymore." At what point do we and the rest of society put our foot down and say, "Keep messing."


Eirinn : FaithFighter: Read above.

Super Mega Man 568 :  That's what I meant.  Something that's good / functional enough for me is not necessarily good enough for you.  Take for instance Facebook or iTunes.  Facebook worked perfectly.  I knew where everything was and how to get to the "place" I wanted to go, but then they updated it and I was totally lost.  The same with iTunes AND the transition from Windows 7 to 8.  This is only software.  There are obviously more examples.  So I totally get where you are coming from.

Does anyone pay attention to economics?  The Japanese are busy buying our stuff while we buy theirs.  If we stop purchasing all their stuff, we don't export.  And the U.S. exports a lot.

We also don't have perfect everything because it's too expensive.  I need a car that gets me from Point A to Point B.  I don't need plush leather interior, heated cup holders, perfect anything.  It's a tool like any other tool.  Now, what is the cost, adjusted for inflation, between those cars and these cars? Cars are lot less expensive.  We don't need the fancy stuff and we don't have to pay for it.

There is "perfect" "high value" everything out there.  If you don't like the Ford Fusion, go get a BMW.  You can also buy a $15 toothbrush with minimum torque and perfect handling.

It's options.  I have the option to buy inexpensive stuff because of my tastes and preferences.  I don't have to have a gourmet hot dog that costs $11.  I can get a pack of Ballpark Franks and pay only a few bucks.  I don't have to get a $40 steak every time I go out to eat.  I can get a burger at McDonalds for a lot less.

Cars?  Options.  Clothes? Options.  I can stay at a Hotel 6 that has a bed and a shower and no other amenities.  It's cheaper than the Hilton.

Why pay such high rates when you don't need the luxury?  Or you can't afford it.  I imagine a poor family from somewhere in the hills of Kentucky buying the best of everything.

That makes no sense.

I agree.
For the most part, people seem to strive for complacency more than anything.
It seems preferable for most people to get into a comfort zone, rather than to strive for something great.

Part of that in America may be the growing populations, and declining economy.
However, it's still a mindset above all else.

I agree with warmaker 100%. What you are basically proposing is some Utopia where all it takes to make only high quality goods being made is 'putting your foot down and refusing to buy cheap stuff". It doesn't work like that because in your scenario, it is not considering the fact that not everyone can afford things equally. There is a reason why there are more cheaply made products; there needs to be products that everyone can afford. Otherwise, anyone who is not wealthy will not be able to afford ANYTHING. I assume you will make the argument that if everything was high quality, then there wouldn't be such a price difference. That is not true. There is a reason why high quality product costs more. They cost more to make. Materials are more expensive, the labor is higher, etc. Aside from that, high quality product gives you more things that you don't need, making them luxuries. You have to pay more for luxuries.
Not everyone can be wealthy, that is just the fact of the matter. No getting around that. People can put their feet down all they want, but it doesn't change that. It isn't just a matter of boycotting cheap products because there is more to it than a company just intentionally making things cheap for the sake of saving money. It has to do with the expense of the labor of making those products, the price of the materials to make more quality products, etc. People would have to somehow convince everyone that doing more work to make higher quality products should should be paid as much as less work for lower quality goods, and that higher quality materials should not be worth more than lower quality materials. That is the only way to make expense out of the issue. Only THEN would this "put our feet down" proposal even have a CHANCE of being remotely possible.

And just to point something out, you brought up Japanese cars. Specifically, the whole deal about being able to dent them so easily. You say that makes them low quality cars, but that is not true. There are 2 very specific reasons for it. First, the type of Japanese cars like that are meant to be fast. That is why they are often used as street race cars. One important way to make a car faster is to make it lighter. The trade off is that lighter materials for your frame means it is easier to damage. Not much of a way around that. You want a faster car, that is a very effective way to do it, and buyers should know that when buying it. Has nothing to do with low quality. Second, a lot of cars now are designed to easily dent and mangle for a safety purpose. That purpose is for in the event that you do get into a severe wreck. If your car is super solid and barely dents in a head on collision, your body is in more danger because of your own inertia. That is the factor that makes your body continue to fly forward when your car makes a sudden stop (like in a crash). If your car mangles, it makes your car come to a significantly more gradual stop instead of a significantly more sudden stop, lowering your inertia, resulting in a better chance that you will be unharmed. That is how you see pictures of cars that are insanely destroyed but the driver had only minor injuries. Yes, you can buy cars that are super solid like the old ones you were talking about, but those are mainly a preference for people who like classic design. Safety wise, a car that dents easier will be safer for you in the event of a crash, simply because it softens the blow and slows your bodies momentum.

Regardless of ALL of that, refer to warmaker's post. You are making it sound like that everything is just 'good enough'. That is not the case. Products that are more 'perfect' are readily available. If the factor is such a big deal to you, then just don't buy cheaper products. Buy products that suit your preference. Main thing is that you have to work more for it. If you are not willing to work more for luxuries, then you don't really have any real justification for complaining. (By saying that, I am not talking about you personally. I am talking about people in general).

I think it's only good enough because whatever happened is over now and in hind sight, we see the effort we put in as "Good as it gets." or "Good Enough." You're right in that its a statement of acceptance, but we should never strive for "Good Enough" in the beginning.

China would've been a better example of Japan. We need to stop buying stuff from China not Japan. As far as the gaming industry goes though, you're 100% wrong. Japan sends out plenty of great video games for us to play, whether it's JRPGS or quality games from Nintendo. The game creator that needs to be trying to be better than "good enough" is EA. All they ever do is make a new sports game every year without making any major improvements to the game at all. So yeah, people should stop wasting their money on the latest sports game every year, and this is coming from a huge NFL fan.

I think as long as you make a conscious effort to be good enough, then good enough really is good enough. 

That doesn't mean that we can strive to be better, though. 

It all depends on context. The phrase is "good" enough, not perfect. It depends on the person's subjective valuing and their preferences and tastes.

For example, I'm doing an internship and only receive a limited amount of money. So I had to be careful and look on the lower-end of the spectrum when it comes to price. I do regret my choice a little, but it's "good enough" considering it was only for a temporary stay of 3 months. Last year's internship, however, wasn't good enough; it was in fact terrible.

The same thing goes for clothes or purchasing in general. I used to buy most of my clothes at Wal Mart because they were "good enough" for my needs. But as I started earning more money I realized that their products were cheap as in "not a good quality". They never tore but the colors faded away quickly. But for people having a hard time making a living or having little money, it IS "good enough.

And to pitch in about trade: it again depends on people's preferences. Should people want to pay more for their purchases because the product is inefficiently made in X rather than Y - or because it's a luxurious item - then "the market" will take the signal and produce accordingly.

In short, "good enough" is merely a transition state between bad and perfect. Human history has been like that: we've settled for "good enough" until a genius appears and makes our lives even better.

SoL@R :

I really hope that "good" isn't within the eye of the beholder. Otherwise Christianity is only "good" because people think so.

Super Mega Man 568 :

I agree wholeheartedly. I often extend this to morality and say "is my helping the old lady cross the street good enough?" Logically, I don't think any act can be called "good" without it being totally, completely, unlimitedly good. Therefore, I don't think we can do "good" acts. We can only do a limited good, which is "not good enough".