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03-28-24 07:48 AM

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Should we redistribute rich people's weath?

 

04-12-11 11:29 AM
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Everyone says it's terribly unfair that the rich are so rich and the rest of us.... well, aren't.

What do you say? Should we tax them to death? Should we let them keep their money? Should the pie be cut more fairly?

I think let them keep their money.
Everyone says it's terribly unfair that the rich are so rich and the rest of us.... well, aren't.

What do you say? Should we tax them to death? Should we let them keep their money? Should the pie be cut more fairly?

I think let them keep their money.
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04-12-11 12:16 PM
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I don't think the question is "should we" but more accurately "how much should we". Wealth is already being distributed via taxation. However, how much should be done is what I think the real question should be.

As for an answer I personally feel as little as possible. My personal feeling is people are more greedy regarding money/wealth when they feel it is being taken from them. I think you would see more generosity and charity if taxes were lower. I can't prove this nor is it something that is likely measured anywhere but I think in principle it is true.

You also have to remember that without a lot of these rich people out there using their money to start companies and develop products and services our lives would be very different. The people with billions of dollars are the ones driving innovation and change in the world. We have what we have because of the wealth that has been generated by them, not because of government taxation.

To be brief I don't think taxing the rich and giving it to the poor is a viable solution. I think help given to the poor and destitute needs to be done via charities and not via the government. The help needs to be voluntary. The solution is not simply handing them a check every month and hoping they start working.
I don't think the question is "should we" but more accurately "how much should we". Wealth is already being distributed via taxation. However, how much should be done is what I think the real question should be.

As for an answer I personally feel as little as possible. My personal feeling is people are more greedy regarding money/wealth when they feel it is being taken from them. I think you would see more generosity and charity if taxes were lower. I can't prove this nor is it something that is likely measured anywhere but I think in principle it is true.

You also have to remember that without a lot of these rich people out there using their money to start companies and develop products and services our lives would be very different. The people with billions of dollars are the ones driving innovation and change in the world. We have what we have because of the wealth that has been generated by them, not because of government taxation.

To be brief I don't think taxing the rich and giving it to the poor is a viable solution. I think help given to the poor and destitute needs to be done via charities and not via the government. The help needs to be voluntary. The solution is not simply handing them a check every month and hoping they start working.
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04-12-11 12:27 PM
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I think we shouldn't why give a lazy bum living of the government a rich guy's money who worked his whole life for it.
I think we shouldn't why give a lazy bum living of the government a rich guy's money who worked his whole life for it.
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04-12-11 02:05 PM
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But the rich man hasn't worked a day in his life for it 8 times out of 10. Some ancestor did, and they have been living on trust funds or inheriting the company and letting a board run it. When do you think the last time a Rockefeller or a Kennedy actually worked was?

And those companies have actually caused us more trouble than they have helped. Do you know how many wars and covert actions have been caused by oil companies alone since the nineteenth century? We have toppled governments for bankers, put people like Hussein in power to gain more oil. All so those rich people could get richer.

And then they vote to raise taxes on the working class so that they can have a tax break.

Now, not all big companies are bad, and some are charitable. And they would still be charitable even if they did have to pay a fair percentage of taxes... they could call it charity to the government if they want, I don't care. Most places that give "charitable" donations then raise prices on their goods to offset the cost anyway.

Of course, like geeogree said, just giving the money directly to the poor does not work because then they don't do anything. Welfare is a good thing that helps people, but it should not be the preferred source of income for anyone. It was designed to help people through rough spots until they got back on their feet, or to subsidize the food budgets of families who did not have enough money to provide for their family (because paying for a house, transportation to work, clothes, utilities, etc is expensive and if you earn very little you will never have enough). That was what the program was designed for, not for lazy bastards to cheat the system just because they don't feel like getting off of their ass and working. Same goes for unemployment.

What the money should do is what everyone's tax dollars should do... pay for the infrastructure of the country, like government projects to fix roads, update technology, etc... things that create jobs. It shouldn't go to give Congress a raise, and honestly they need a pay cut.
But the rich man hasn't worked a day in his life for it 8 times out of 10. Some ancestor did, and they have been living on trust funds or inheriting the company and letting a board run it. When do you think the last time a Rockefeller or a Kennedy actually worked was?

And those companies have actually caused us more trouble than they have helped. Do you know how many wars and covert actions have been caused by oil companies alone since the nineteenth century? We have toppled governments for bankers, put people like Hussein in power to gain more oil. All so those rich people could get richer.

And then they vote to raise taxes on the working class so that they can have a tax break.

Now, not all big companies are bad, and some are charitable. And they would still be charitable even if they did have to pay a fair percentage of taxes... they could call it charity to the government if they want, I don't care. Most places that give "charitable" donations then raise prices on their goods to offset the cost anyway.

Of course, like geeogree said, just giving the money directly to the poor does not work because then they don't do anything. Welfare is a good thing that helps people, but it should not be the preferred source of income for anyone. It was designed to help people through rough spots until they got back on their feet, or to subsidize the food budgets of families who did not have enough money to provide for their family (because paying for a house, transportation to work, clothes, utilities, etc is expensive and if you earn very little you will never have enough). That was what the program was designed for, not for lazy bastards to cheat the system just because they don't feel like getting off of their ass and working. Same goes for unemployment.

What the money should do is what everyone's tax dollars should do... pay for the infrastructure of the country, like government projects to fix roads, update technology, etc... things that create jobs. It shouldn't go to give Congress a raise, and honestly they need a pay cut.
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04-12-11 02:08 PM
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I am a pretty poor person, so obviously I'm gonna be up for this. I don't think it's fair that a rich man doesn't have to work a day of his life because his ancestors were rich. Yet, I have to work (even though I STILL can't find a job) and have to struggle through life. Struggling is NOT fun, and I shouldn't have to struggle as much as I do.
I am a pretty poor person, so obviously I'm gonna be up for this. I don't think it's fair that a rich man doesn't have to work a day of his life because his ancestors were rich. Yet, I have to work (even though I STILL can't find a job) and have to struggle through life. Struggling is NOT fun, and I shouldn't have to struggle as much as I do.
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04-12-11 02:16 PM
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Elara : You hit the nail on the head. Besides, just giving money directly to the poor wouldn't help because who knows what they'll use it on (I'm pretty poor and I know that I wouldn't invest it wisely). What we need is jobs. Give people jobs, lower unemployment, make the wealthy actually pay taxes, etc. Speaking of taxes, I think everyone should just pay the same rate. It would be a lot easier and dare I say it...fair.

Elara : You hit the nail on the head. Besides, just giving money directly to the poor wouldn't help because who knows what they'll use it on (I'm pretty poor and I know that I wouldn't invest it wisely). What we need is jobs. Give people jobs, lower unemployment, make the wealthy actually pay taxes, etc. Speaking of taxes, I think everyone should just pay the same rate. It would be a lot easier and dare I say it...fair.

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04-12-11 03:14 PM
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Should we redistribute rich people's wealth?

It is their property. It is wrong to aggress against them.

The protection of and respect towards private property is important for those who have much property, but it is scarcely less important, and perhaps more so, for those who do not.

Should we redistribute rich people's wealth?

It is their property. It is wrong to aggress against them.

The protection of and respect towards private property is important for those who have much property, but it is scarcely less important, and perhaps more so, for those who do not.

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04-12-11 04:22 PM
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Elara : "And those companies have actually caused us more trouble than they have helped. Do you know how many wars and covert actions have been caused by oil companies alone since the nineteenth century? We have toppled governments for bankers, put people like Hussein in power to gain more oil. All so those rich people could get richer."

If this is true (and I'm not arguing that it's false) then what makes you think that we can actually change the system in order to hurt those institutions? If the government has been bought enough to get regime change and what not around the world then why can't they buy enough people in the government to prevent any serious hampering of their ability to earn money?

And I agree about Congress. I wish a job I "work" for 20 years would give me a 6 figure pension until I die. That would be nice.

NotJon : you know what is ironic about a flat tax rate.... more people actually pay it than a progressive tax rate. Although if a flat tax rate is introduced then it should be a sales tax and not income (in my opinion). This allows the government to tax people who get paid "under the table" in whatever form (whether criminal or tax avoidance). This would also result in more tax collected.
Elara : "And those companies have actually caused us more trouble than they have helped. Do you know how many wars and covert actions have been caused by oil companies alone since the nineteenth century? We have toppled governments for bankers, put people like Hussein in power to gain more oil. All so those rich people could get richer."

If this is true (and I'm not arguing that it's false) then what makes you think that we can actually change the system in order to hurt those institutions? If the government has been bought enough to get regime change and what not around the world then why can't they buy enough people in the government to prevent any serious hampering of their ability to earn money?

And I agree about Congress. I wish a job I "work" for 20 years would give me a 6 figure pension until I die. That would be nice.

NotJon : you know what is ironic about a flat tax rate.... more people actually pay it than a progressive tax rate. Although if a flat tax rate is introduced then it should be a sales tax and not income (in my opinion). This allows the government to tax people who get paid "under the table" in whatever form (whether criminal or tax avoidance). This would also result in more tax collected.
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04-12-11 05:08 PM
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Um... you did notice that they got their tax break extended again, right?

And I can provide several primary source quotations supporting my accusations, if you are interested. But yeah, I also want that pension and their health care. I dunno, maybe it would be better if you could not be allowed to be a career politician... you only get paid when Congress is actually in session, otherwise you are in your home state working a real job. Maybe then it would make them behave better. Give them a more average pension and make it so they lose the health care when they leave, just like any normal job, then watch how fast standards change.

I am actually curious... Geeogree, how do taxes work in Canada? We talk a lot about how the American system works (or doesn't as the case may be) on here, and I know that both are based on the British system so they are similar... but I want to know more detail.
Um... you did notice that they got their tax break extended again, right?

And I can provide several primary source quotations supporting my accusations, if you are interested. But yeah, I also want that pension and their health care. I dunno, maybe it would be better if you could not be allowed to be a career politician... you only get paid when Congress is actually in session, otherwise you are in your home state working a real job. Maybe then it would make them behave better. Give them a more average pension and make it so they lose the health care when they leave, just like any normal job, then watch how fast standards change.

I am actually curious... Geeogree, how do taxes work in Canada? We talk a lot about how the American system works (or doesn't as the case may be) on here, and I know that both are based on the British system so they are similar... but I want to know more detail.
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04-12-11 05:28 PM
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The innovating rich people should be taxed less, the rich oil people more.


The innovating rich people should be taxed less, the rich oil people more.
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04-12-11 05:47 PM
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taxes in Canada seem to be pretty similar to the US as far as I can tell.

The big difference is how much we pay is proportionately higher because the government pays our health care costs (or a portion of it anyway). Not much else is different.

epic-san : the "rich oil people" are the reason why your life is as good as it is. Oil is the thing that revolutionized the world. Without it life would be no where near as good as it is now for North Americans.
taxes in Canada seem to be pretty similar to the US as far as I can tell.

The big difference is how much we pay is proportionately higher because the government pays our health care costs (or a portion of it anyway). Not much else is different.

epic-san : the "rich oil people" are the reason why your life is as good as it is. Oil is the thing that revolutionized the world. Without it life would be no where near as good as it is now for North Americans.
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geeogree : well... oil is becoming very costly, and there are multiple energy sources now, all of them usable. and, don't forget BP, and Exxon... you know what I mean.
geeogree : well... oil is becoming very costly, and there are multiple energy sources now, all of them usable. and, don't forget BP, and Exxon... you know what I mean.
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Against Redistribution of wealth ( I found this doc.)
The right of people to do whatever they can do to improve themselves is basic to what has made America great (some very rich, some very poor). The threat of poverty is an incredible incentive.
Redistribution of wealth drives successful people to other countries to protect their wealth, or at the very least encourages people to cheat on tax returns, which breeds lawlessness, or forces them to park their assets in off-shore banking accounts (which of course does not benefit the American economy)
Economic free enterprise is closely tied to political freedom (ultimately human rights are based on property rights)
By allowing government to take large amounts of money from people, you are making government too powerful, which in turn can threaten people’s freedom.
Basic among our freedoms is the freedom to make as much as we can.
If you redistribute wealth, you are starting down the road to Communism—which clearly does not work.
Confiscation of wealth destroys incentive—people won’t work as hard
By subsidizing the poor (through income redistribution) we are weakening society (based on the principles of social Darwinism and survival of the fittest)


By allowing the rich to maintain their wealth, they will use that wealth to invest the large sums necessary to build factories, which in turn will create more jobs for poor people (trickle down theory).
We need highly successful wealthy people as role models to pattern our lives after, and as the providers of philanthropy.
Against Redistribution of wealth ( I found this doc.)
The right of people to do whatever they can do to improve themselves is basic to what has made America great (some very rich, some very poor). The threat of poverty is an incredible incentive.
Redistribution of wealth drives successful people to other countries to protect their wealth, or at the very least encourages people to cheat on tax returns, which breeds lawlessness, or forces them to park their assets in off-shore banking accounts (which of course does not benefit the American economy)
Economic free enterprise is closely tied to political freedom (ultimately human rights are based on property rights)
By allowing government to take large amounts of money from people, you are making government too powerful, which in turn can threaten people’s freedom.
Basic among our freedoms is the freedom to make as much as we can.
If you redistribute wealth, you are starting down the road to Communism—which clearly does not work.
Confiscation of wealth destroys incentive—people won’t work as hard
By subsidizing the poor (through income redistribution) we are weakening society (based on the principles of social Darwinism and survival of the fittest)


By allowing the rich to maintain their wealth, they will use that wealth to invest the large sums necessary to build factories, which in turn will create more jobs for poor people (trickle down theory).
We need highly successful wealthy people as role models to pattern our lives after, and as the providers of philanthropy.
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No, things should be kept the way they are. It's a trickle-down effect; the rich people hire the poorer people so the poor people can earn money. Yes, several of these companies are just sitting on their hands and doing nothing with their money, and yes, I realize what
Elara :
was saying about rich people not doing anything with their money. However, you must realize that with the advent of the stock market and investors, there isn't going to be just one guy doing nothing with his business. There will be several thousand people involved, with some barely having any part of the business at all, yet still owning a part of it. The higher-ups in the company, or at least ONE of them, will try to make an innovation of some sort, because there are certainly some rich people that still believe in EARNING their money. Businesses are always changing, even a 1 cent raise in a barrel of oil required some sort of meeting and agreement.

That said, there are several people that are out there (members of royalty and decendants of past politicians, for example) that simply do nothing with their lives. Good for them. But still, why put extra tax on them? For all we know, they could go out there tommorow and start a new business, form a new idea, make an advancement in technology, etc. That's why it's important to let the rich people stay rich.

Although some are unlucky, several people are without riches because they simply don't choose to go the extra mile, or think outside the box. I'm sure EVERY SINGLE PERSON alive right now has the ability to become the richest person alive.
No, things should be kept the way they are. It's a trickle-down effect; the rich people hire the poorer people so the poor people can earn money. Yes, several of these companies are just sitting on their hands and doing nothing with their money, and yes, I realize what
Elara :
was saying about rich people not doing anything with their money. However, you must realize that with the advent of the stock market and investors, there isn't going to be just one guy doing nothing with his business. There will be several thousand people involved, with some barely having any part of the business at all, yet still owning a part of it. The higher-ups in the company, or at least ONE of them, will try to make an innovation of some sort, because there are certainly some rich people that still believe in EARNING their money. Businesses are always changing, even a 1 cent raise in a barrel of oil required some sort of meeting and agreement.

That said, there are several people that are out there (members of royalty and decendants of past politicians, for example) that simply do nothing with their lives. Good for them. But still, why put extra tax on them? For all we know, they could go out there tommorow and start a new business, form a new idea, make an advancement in technology, etc. That's why it's important to let the rich people stay rich.

Although some are unlucky, several people are without riches because they simply don't choose to go the extra mile, or think outside the box. I'm sure EVERY SINGLE PERSON alive right now has the ability to become the richest person alive.
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04-12-11 07:05 PM
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i dont think the rich should have there money taken from them,if everyone is stuck at equal money it removes all motivation to work hard, communist countrys are proof of that,but i also think in the usa you let therich off too easy, compared to europe they get no tax, obama made health legislation which got around 60 million americans healthcare,when your country can afford to blow up 3rd world countrys but not to keep its own people healthy youve got to see something isnt right, i think that healthcare should be gained by taxing the rich,its how europ funded it, and its still the richest continent in the world, there are still billionaires.
i dont think the rich should have there money taken from them,if everyone is stuck at equal money it removes all motivation to work hard, communist countrys are proof of that,but i also think in the usa you let therich off too easy, compared to europe they get no tax, obama made health legislation which got around 60 million americans healthcare,when your country can afford to blow up 3rd world countrys but not to keep its own people healthy youve got to see something isnt right, i think that healthcare should be gained by taxing the rich,its how europ funded it, and its still the richest continent in the world, there are still billionaires.
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04-12-11 07:21 PM
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thenumberone : Grammar needs a bit of work there, the post was hard to read... but yeah, I agree. The idea of the distribution of wealth equally, like Karl Marx proposed, really only works on paper. And yes, the fact that other countries pay higher taxes and have a better standard of living, yet there are still rich people, really shows that the idea is not that far-fetched.

the_casuality: So it is the poor's fault that they are poor? There are several people that I know that work two or three jobs just to have enough to live on, and that is the case for a lot of people. It is not that they are not trying, it is that they cannot get ahead. And the trickle-down theory has not worked so far, since statistics show that there is actually no trickle-down at all, or that it is very very small. Are there some people that really do have no drive, yes... but to make a blanket statement that they are all just lazy is just plain ignorant.

... and the nobility will never form a business. Charity, yes, business, no. I cannot think of a single company started by a member of the nobility. They don't need to, they are rich, and their attitude is that those who must work are lesser for it. The problem we have in America is that the politicians and CEOs are starting to act that way as well.
thenumberone : Grammar needs a bit of work there, the post was hard to read... but yeah, I agree. The idea of the distribution of wealth equally, like Karl Marx proposed, really only works on paper. And yes, the fact that other countries pay higher taxes and have a better standard of living, yet there are still rich people, really shows that the idea is not that far-fetched.

the_casuality: So it is the poor's fault that they are poor? There are several people that I know that work two or three jobs just to have enough to live on, and that is the case for a lot of people. It is not that they are not trying, it is that they cannot get ahead. And the trickle-down theory has not worked so far, since statistics show that there is actually no trickle-down at all, or that it is very very small. Are there some people that really do have no drive, yes... but to make a blanket statement that they are all just lazy is just plain ignorant.

... and the nobility will never form a business. Charity, yes, business, no. I cannot think of a single company started by a member of the nobility. They don't need to, they are rich, and their attitude is that those who must work are lesser for it. The problem we have in America is that the politicians and CEOs are starting to act that way as well.
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(edited by Elara on 04-12-11 07:22 PM)    

04-12-11 07:45 PM
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Elara : apologies for the grammar,i am using a touch phone at this minute so precise grammar is difficult,i did notice a few mistakes after i posted.
Elara : apologies for the grammar,i am using a touch phone at this minute so precise grammar is difficult,i did notice a few mistakes after i posted.
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04-12-11 08:51 PM
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thenumberone : Ah, touch phone... I can understand that. They give me a lot of trouble as well.
thenumberone : Ah, touch phone... I can understand that. They give me a lot of trouble as well.
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04-12-11 09:01 PM
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People should be taxed based on A) what there local tax rate is. And B) how much money they make.
I know that this would NEVER ever happen, but what if every ones money was distributed evenly. That would solve a lot of things, but it would also stir stuff up too.
People should be taxed based on A) what there local tax rate is. And B) how much money they make.
I know that this would NEVER ever happen, but what if every ones money was distributed evenly. That would solve a lot of things, but it would also stir stuff up too.
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04-12-11 09:10 PM
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thenumberone : What do you mean, blow up third world countries? That's just silly, and America's healthcare is one of the best, if not the best healthcare in the world. I'm not saying that it's almighty and perfect, I'm saying that if you have it, you wouldn't go anywhere else to get better. Canadians come to America all the time for the healthcare (vice versa, but I'm talking about wealthier Canadians who need operations or treatments soon).
the_casualty : That's a broad statement, I don't think that absolutely EVERYONE has that ability, consider oppressed and uneducated peoples, like the, "third world" countries, or North Korean civilians. They can't get rich because the people who ARE rich won't let them.
I think that wealthy people should be taxed MORE than people who don't make as much. I'm not saying to steal their wealth and divide the spoils, I just think it's ridiculous to give tax breaks to people who clearly don't need it. If someone needs to be taxed more than anyone else, make sure it's the people who can afford it.
thenumberone : What do you mean, blow up third world countries? That's just silly, and America's healthcare is one of the best, if not the best healthcare in the world. I'm not saying that it's almighty and perfect, I'm saying that if you have it, you wouldn't go anywhere else to get better. Canadians come to America all the time for the healthcare (vice versa, but I'm talking about wealthier Canadians who need operations or treatments soon).
the_casualty : That's a broad statement, I don't think that absolutely EVERYONE has that ability, consider oppressed and uneducated peoples, like the, "third world" countries, or North Korean civilians. They can't get rich because the people who ARE rich won't let them.
I think that wealthy people should be taxed MORE than people who don't make as much. I'm not saying to steal their wealth and divide the spoils, I just think it's ridiculous to give tax breaks to people who clearly don't need it. If someone needs to be taxed more than anyone else, make sure it's the people who can afford it.
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