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Argumentative: How to make Nintendo home consoles successful again

 

06-11-16 08:22 PM
Zlinqx is Offline
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Disclaimer: Everything here is based on my own opinion and my experience as someone who enjoys many Nintendo franchises and having studied gaming history. This article is not necessarily about what I would like to see Nintendo do, but what I think is best for Nintendo to do as a business (as opposed to becoming a 3rd party developer). I'm only presenting what I think is best, that does not make it factual and it should not be treated as such!

Having established that, let's start by giving some background.

The failure of the Wii U

Whether you like or dislike the Wii U, I think we can all agree that it didn't do as well as Nintendo or their fans would've hoped for. Being the worst selling of their consoles to date putting Nintendo in a situation where if the NX meets the same fate it may very well mean that they have to stop home console production altogether. So before getting into what Nintendo should do differently, we need to understand what caused this. What caused the Wii U to do so poorly? I could go on about that for quite some time but for the purposes of this article which is to provide background I'll try to keep it as short as possible... While likely still going into great detail.

Firstly was poor marketing. What one needs to realize is that a big part of what caused the original Wii to sell so well was that it did extremely well with the casual gamer crowd. Keeping that in mind looking back at when the Wii U was first revealed and after it had been released the marketing was heavily focusing on the gamepad itself, not the console. This along with the console's name being nearly identical to its predecessor caused many people who didn't keep up with gaming news (aka the casual gamer crowd) to not realize it was a new console.  In stead thinking it was some sort of new add on to the existing Wii especially since this was long before the PS4 and Xbox One released and therefore they weren't expecting new consoles. This of course lead to it not having nearly as much hype for it as the original Wii and ultimately is one of the main factors it didn't do well with the casual gamer crowd at launch.

Poor naming of many of the games that came for the Wii U, adding U to the end of the game title was also a factor. The most notorious example being Zombii U (which actually received a lot of good reviews) that contributed to many not being able to take the console or games seriously. I mean... really unless you were a Wii U owner, did you give that game much thought at launch? Yeah I didn't think so

Another factor is the 3rd party support which further contributed to a very poor launch with the Wii U simply barely having anything worthwhile to play it for quite some time after release. It lead many to holding off on it. This wasn't helped by the fact that Nintendo has had and still has some very strict 3rd party policies requiring certain exclusivity which isn't a very good move when you're competing with two other already well established consoles. The hardware also being so inferior to PS4 and XB1 and not as easy to adapt to for 3rd party developers makes it hard for them to port multiplatform releases to the console.

Lastly the most noteworthy factor is the price and gamepad itself. The gamepad simply wasn't utilised well enough in games to make up for the big cost it added, often feeling forced into the game as an after thought.  At the same time turning away gamers who prefer a more traditional controller. The gamepad also added a lot to the price tag of the Wii U, putting it in a price range where while still cheaper than the Xbox One and PlayStation 4, it's also still competing with them. Which isn't setting it up to do very well as aside from the gamepad the actual hardware is vastly inferior. Making the console more expensive through making the gamepad mandatory in stead of opting out of using it or making it an optional add on is also not going to appeal to the casual gamer crowd. They are not going to want to spend a lot of money and doing so on the Wii U when there are other options in the form of the PS4 and XB1. Which have taken some great strides in appearing more casual gamer accessible and have much more varied game libraries. All this is going to make the Wii U unappealing to most people outside of the die hard Nintendo fans who only care about 1st party Nintendo titles anyway.

Now we finally have that established. For another perspective and detailed look at what has caused the Wii U to fail I recommend reading this review by my good friend and fellow article writer Eirinn. https://www.vizzed.com/boards/thread.php?id=94058 That is if you haven't done so already

Aside from that let's get on to addressing this need to "revolutionize" gaming that seemed to drive the development of the gamepad.

The Wii and the need to revolutionize

So as I mentioned previously the Wii did very well with casual gamers so well in fact that it became Nintendo top selling console. This set up for the Wii U to fail however as it gave Nintendo the idea that in order for them to still do well with their home consoles they need to try and innovate or revolutionize gaming with each console. Which translates into having some kind of gimmick. Motion gaming was the gimmick that made the Wii succeed. It was made to look like the next big thing in gaming which made it so many people bought the console when it was released. Looking back at it however we notice it was nothing more than a fad which can be clearly shown through that while many people bought the Wii, those who did often bought little to no games aside from the pack in titles. The Wii wasn't a step in the right direction, it was simply made to look like it.

For those who may still be doubting it, let me give you a more modern example. Look at the Xbox One Kinect. Through it Microsoft has taken great strides in making motion gaming more responsive to the point of where it's nearly at the technical level of what the original Wii was made out to be. Despite this however it has done very poorly with customers. With Microsoft originally bundling it with the Xbox One but being forced to start selling the Xbox One separately as the added price it created turned people away from the console and once they made it optional sales went up. Sounds familiar? That's because the same applies with the Gamepad and Wii U, the difference being Nintendo never learned from their mistake. Nor could they as they had already had based so many of their games around its use.

I think most Nintendo fans can agree that whether we have stayed loyal to the company or not the 1st party games is what Nintendo consoles THE console to own in the past. Not the console itself. All those awesome well established franchises like Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Pikmin, Smash Brothers, Mario Kart etc. That you simply won't find on any competing platform. Thus it would make sense that this is what Nintendo should  focus their marketing on but in stead they've shifted their marketing focus from the games themselves to the console. This leads to addressing what many fans may think is the best course of action.

Why Nintendo shouldn't try to directly compete with the PS4 and XB1

So you may agree with me so far but think that this is why Nintendo should focus on upgrading their hardware and in stead try to compete with Sony and Microsoft. After all if they could get that 3rd party support and combine that with the many 1st party titles they have they would be able to change their image and became the top console manufacturer once again as their game library would be huge... Right? Not exactly since there is one glaring problem with this...

It simply isn't viable anymore. Like previously said Nintendo is in a economic situation where they're not going to be able to take huge risk. By trying to achieve this they would be fighting an uphill battle, facing the competition of the PS4 and Xbox One that are now well established and have much better 3rd party support. Trying to get this back is going to mean that Nintendo is going to have to make major changes and make big investments to appeal to developers and get them on board with the idea.

Couple this with the fact that even if they against all odds were able to do this it still doesn't guarantee that their next console will be successful. Nintendo have now established a certain reputation of being very kid friendly and casual gamer friendly thanks to the Wii and their accessible 1st party titles. Which isn't going to appeal to many more serious gamers who mostly care for more realistic and gritty games. This at the same time is going to make the price of the console have to go up even more which the casual gamers crowd won't like either.

I think it's clear that for Nintendo to be successful they need to find a niche, they need to do things differently compared to the Xbox One and PlayStation 4. But then you will probably ask, if this doesn't involve having some sort of gimmick or trying to change how we play games through things like motion gaming or the gamepad, then what does that involve? Well I'm just getting into that

Making the most easily accessible home console

A large part of why the Wii U did poorly looking past the marketing aspects was the price like was mentioned. Because it scared away both casual gamers (who were responsible for the Wii doing so well) and many old fans who switched to another console due to simply not wanting to loose out on many 3rd party games.

This is exactly why I think they should focus on making the most affordable console yet, a low budget home console if you will. That's light on the hardware but optimized to make it more friendly for 3rd party developers to port and develop games for. This is going to appeal to casual gamers who want an easy way to play games through the price and the many Nintendo franchises like Mario which are easily recognizable and easy to get into taking advantage of the reputation they have already established as this casual gamer friendly platform. It's also going to appeal to people who may not have or want to spend a lot of money on gaming. Even older more serious gamers who still have the PS4 or Xbox One or even a PC as their primary platform. The new reduced price could make it possible for them to buy it as a secondary console to experience many Nintendo exclusive games alongside their primary console.

Through this they should also shift their marketing strategy away from the console itself (aside from emphasizing it's affordability) and to the actual games they have. The many franchises they have going for them that make Nintendo what it is. They excel at making polished and refined games that are easy to get into and have a good time with but that at the same time appeal to more serious gamers for the depth they have. Just take many of the games available on the Wii U like, Smash Bros U, Mario Kart 8, Splatoon the list goes on. These games have never been about having the most cutting edge graphics (even though many of them still look great) but creating an enjoyable gameplay experience. Which is why they're going to be largely unaffected by this shift and in fact thrive on a console designed to be low budget. It wouldn't hinder how enjoyable the games are.

This would be much harder for a company like Sony to do since their 1st party exclusives like Uncharted for example directly use the graphical capabilities to make the game experience more enjoyable. Games that in large part work like an interactive movie and are dependant on having the most cutting edge technology to be effective. For them to try and achieve something similar they would have to make a lot of sacrifices in terms of their games which they're not going to be willing to do.

If anything it could pave the way for Nintendo making their games even better as it would allow Nintendo to more fully focus on them not having to worry about adding new gimmicks. In stead of having the games adapt to the console gimmick like is the case with the Wii U and having to add gamepad functionality, the console would adapt to the game through being easier to develop for. Not having to worry about any limitations added gimmicks could bring. Even if they wanted to include new ideas similar to the gamepad they could still do so in the form of add ons, they just shouldn't make it mandatory.

There is no low budget console on the market right now like what this could be. Meaning they wouldn't have to face the competition they currently are and would if they tried to make their consoles more technically advanced. For the reasons I mentioned they likely would not have to worry about the major console manufacturers trying to compete in the future either. They would in stead be able to tap into a whole new market. It also wouldn't require the same kind of huge investment on their part making this a direction that's a lot more financially reasonable.

So what are the chances of this actually happening?

That... Is another matter. From what little we have heard about the NX though it seems that this being the planned course of action is very unlikely. They in stead seem to be focusing on adding a new gimmick of some sort this time by bringing handheld and home console gaming closer together which while a cool concept on paper is likely just going to make it harder to develop games for. Not to mention make the console itself expensive... Likely more expensive than the Wii U again putting at competition with the PlayStation 4 and Xbox One and eventually its successors. All this while still having inferior 3rd party support, in other words you can probably imagine how it's going to end.



Despite that though I hope this made for an interesting read and if you still don't agree with me I hopefully at least made you all think and consider things from a broader perspective. With that said feel free to reply and agree with me, or tell me how wrong I am, I welcome all kinds discussion!  I'll agree to anything as long as you put down your flamethrowers

This has been another article brought to you by Reporter Guy Zlinqx. Now running for LocalLocalLocal. Until next time, when I bring you all other news and perspectives on the world of gaming!

















Disclaimer: Everything here is based on my own opinion and my experience as someone who enjoys many Nintendo franchises and having studied gaming history. This article is not necessarily about what I would like to see Nintendo do, but what I think is best for Nintendo to do as a business (as opposed to becoming a 3rd party developer). I'm only presenting what I think is best, that does not make it factual and it should not be treated as such!

Having established that, let's start by giving some background.

The failure of the Wii U

Whether you like or dislike the Wii U, I think we can all agree that it didn't do as well as Nintendo or their fans would've hoped for. Being the worst selling of their consoles to date putting Nintendo in a situation where if the NX meets the same fate it may very well mean that they have to stop home console production altogether. So before getting into what Nintendo should do differently, we need to understand what caused this. What caused the Wii U to do so poorly? I could go on about that for quite some time but for the purposes of this article which is to provide background I'll try to keep it as short as possible... While likely still going into great detail.

Firstly was poor marketing. What one needs to realize is that a big part of what caused the original Wii to sell so well was that it did extremely well with the casual gamer crowd. Keeping that in mind looking back at when the Wii U was first revealed and after it had been released the marketing was heavily focusing on the gamepad itself, not the console. This along with the console's name being nearly identical to its predecessor caused many people who didn't keep up with gaming news (aka the casual gamer crowd) to not realize it was a new console.  In stead thinking it was some sort of new add on to the existing Wii especially since this was long before the PS4 and Xbox One released and therefore they weren't expecting new consoles. This of course lead to it not having nearly as much hype for it as the original Wii and ultimately is one of the main factors it didn't do well with the casual gamer crowd at launch.

Poor naming of many of the games that came for the Wii U, adding U to the end of the game title was also a factor. The most notorious example being Zombii U (which actually received a lot of good reviews) that contributed to many not being able to take the console or games seriously. I mean... really unless you were a Wii U owner, did you give that game much thought at launch? Yeah I didn't think so

Another factor is the 3rd party support which further contributed to a very poor launch with the Wii U simply barely having anything worthwhile to play it for quite some time after release. It lead many to holding off on it. This wasn't helped by the fact that Nintendo has had and still has some very strict 3rd party policies requiring certain exclusivity which isn't a very good move when you're competing with two other already well established consoles. The hardware also being so inferior to PS4 and XB1 and not as easy to adapt to for 3rd party developers makes it hard for them to port multiplatform releases to the console.

Lastly the most noteworthy factor is the price and gamepad itself. The gamepad simply wasn't utilised well enough in games to make up for the big cost it added, often feeling forced into the game as an after thought.  At the same time turning away gamers who prefer a more traditional controller. The gamepad also added a lot to the price tag of the Wii U, putting it in a price range where while still cheaper than the Xbox One and PlayStation 4, it's also still competing with them. Which isn't setting it up to do very well as aside from the gamepad the actual hardware is vastly inferior. Making the console more expensive through making the gamepad mandatory in stead of opting out of using it or making it an optional add on is also not going to appeal to the casual gamer crowd. They are not going to want to spend a lot of money and doing so on the Wii U when there are other options in the form of the PS4 and XB1. Which have taken some great strides in appearing more casual gamer accessible and have much more varied game libraries. All this is going to make the Wii U unappealing to most people outside of the die hard Nintendo fans who only care about 1st party Nintendo titles anyway.

Now we finally have that established. For another perspective and detailed look at what has caused the Wii U to fail I recommend reading this review by my good friend and fellow article writer Eirinn. https://www.vizzed.com/boards/thread.php?id=94058 That is if you haven't done so already

Aside from that let's get on to addressing this need to "revolutionize" gaming that seemed to drive the development of the gamepad.

The Wii and the need to revolutionize

So as I mentioned previously the Wii did very well with casual gamers so well in fact that it became Nintendo top selling console. This set up for the Wii U to fail however as it gave Nintendo the idea that in order for them to still do well with their home consoles they need to try and innovate or revolutionize gaming with each console. Which translates into having some kind of gimmick. Motion gaming was the gimmick that made the Wii succeed. It was made to look like the next big thing in gaming which made it so many people bought the console when it was released. Looking back at it however we notice it was nothing more than a fad which can be clearly shown through that while many people bought the Wii, those who did often bought little to no games aside from the pack in titles. The Wii wasn't a step in the right direction, it was simply made to look like it.

For those who may still be doubting it, let me give you a more modern example. Look at the Xbox One Kinect. Through it Microsoft has taken great strides in making motion gaming more responsive to the point of where it's nearly at the technical level of what the original Wii was made out to be. Despite this however it has done very poorly with customers. With Microsoft originally bundling it with the Xbox One but being forced to start selling the Xbox One separately as the added price it created turned people away from the console and once they made it optional sales went up. Sounds familiar? That's because the same applies with the Gamepad and Wii U, the difference being Nintendo never learned from their mistake. Nor could they as they had already had based so many of their games around its use.

I think most Nintendo fans can agree that whether we have stayed loyal to the company or not the 1st party games is what Nintendo consoles THE console to own in the past. Not the console itself. All those awesome well established franchises like Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Pikmin, Smash Brothers, Mario Kart etc. That you simply won't find on any competing platform. Thus it would make sense that this is what Nintendo should  focus their marketing on but in stead they've shifted their marketing focus from the games themselves to the console. This leads to addressing what many fans may think is the best course of action.

Why Nintendo shouldn't try to directly compete with the PS4 and XB1

So you may agree with me so far but think that this is why Nintendo should focus on upgrading their hardware and in stead try to compete with Sony and Microsoft. After all if they could get that 3rd party support and combine that with the many 1st party titles they have they would be able to change their image and became the top console manufacturer once again as their game library would be huge... Right? Not exactly since there is one glaring problem with this...

It simply isn't viable anymore. Like previously said Nintendo is in a economic situation where they're not going to be able to take huge risk. By trying to achieve this they would be fighting an uphill battle, facing the competition of the PS4 and Xbox One that are now well established and have much better 3rd party support. Trying to get this back is going to mean that Nintendo is going to have to make major changes and make big investments to appeal to developers and get them on board with the idea.

Couple this with the fact that even if they against all odds were able to do this it still doesn't guarantee that their next console will be successful. Nintendo have now established a certain reputation of being very kid friendly and casual gamer friendly thanks to the Wii and their accessible 1st party titles. Which isn't going to appeal to many more serious gamers who mostly care for more realistic and gritty games. This at the same time is going to make the price of the console have to go up even more which the casual gamers crowd won't like either.

I think it's clear that for Nintendo to be successful they need to find a niche, they need to do things differently compared to the Xbox One and PlayStation 4. But then you will probably ask, if this doesn't involve having some sort of gimmick or trying to change how we play games through things like motion gaming or the gamepad, then what does that involve? Well I'm just getting into that

Making the most easily accessible home console

A large part of why the Wii U did poorly looking past the marketing aspects was the price like was mentioned. Because it scared away both casual gamers (who were responsible for the Wii doing so well) and many old fans who switched to another console due to simply not wanting to loose out on many 3rd party games.

This is exactly why I think they should focus on making the most affordable console yet, a low budget home console if you will. That's light on the hardware but optimized to make it more friendly for 3rd party developers to port and develop games for. This is going to appeal to casual gamers who want an easy way to play games through the price and the many Nintendo franchises like Mario which are easily recognizable and easy to get into taking advantage of the reputation they have already established as this casual gamer friendly platform. It's also going to appeal to people who may not have or want to spend a lot of money on gaming. Even older more serious gamers who still have the PS4 or Xbox One or even a PC as their primary platform. The new reduced price could make it possible for them to buy it as a secondary console to experience many Nintendo exclusive games alongside their primary console.

Through this they should also shift their marketing strategy away from the console itself (aside from emphasizing it's affordability) and to the actual games they have. The many franchises they have going for them that make Nintendo what it is. They excel at making polished and refined games that are easy to get into and have a good time with but that at the same time appeal to more serious gamers for the depth they have. Just take many of the games available on the Wii U like, Smash Bros U, Mario Kart 8, Splatoon the list goes on. These games have never been about having the most cutting edge graphics (even though many of them still look great) but creating an enjoyable gameplay experience. Which is why they're going to be largely unaffected by this shift and in fact thrive on a console designed to be low budget. It wouldn't hinder how enjoyable the games are.

This would be much harder for a company like Sony to do since their 1st party exclusives like Uncharted for example directly use the graphical capabilities to make the game experience more enjoyable. Games that in large part work like an interactive movie and are dependant on having the most cutting edge technology to be effective. For them to try and achieve something similar they would have to make a lot of sacrifices in terms of their games which they're not going to be willing to do.

If anything it could pave the way for Nintendo making their games even better as it would allow Nintendo to more fully focus on them not having to worry about adding new gimmicks. In stead of having the games adapt to the console gimmick like is the case with the Wii U and having to add gamepad functionality, the console would adapt to the game through being easier to develop for. Not having to worry about any limitations added gimmicks could bring. Even if they wanted to include new ideas similar to the gamepad they could still do so in the form of add ons, they just shouldn't make it mandatory.

There is no low budget console on the market right now like what this could be. Meaning they wouldn't have to face the competition they currently are and would if they tried to make their consoles more technically advanced. For the reasons I mentioned they likely would not have to worry about the major console manufacturers trying to compete in the future either. They would in stead be able to tap into a whole new market. It also wouldn't require the same kind of huge investment on their part making this a direction that's a lot more financially reasonable.

So what are the chances of this actually happening?

That... Is another matter. From what little we have heard about the NX though it seems that this being the planned course of action is very unlikely. They in stead seem to be focusing on adding a new gimmick of some sort this time by bringing handheld and home console gaming closer together which while a cool concept on paper is likely just going to make it harder to develop games for. Not to mention make the console itself expensive... Likely more expensive than the Wii U again putting at competition with the PlayStation 4 and Xbox One and eventually its successors. All this while still having inferior 3rd party support, in other words you can probably imagine how it's going to end.



Despite that though I hope this made for an interesting read and if you still don't agree with me I hopefully at least made you all think and consider things from a broader perspective. With that said feel free to reply and agree with me, or tell me how wrong I am, I welcome all kinds discussion!  I'll agree to anything as long as you put down your flamethrowers

This has been another article brought to you by Reporter Guy Zlinqx. Now running for LocalLocalLocal. Until next time, when I bring you all other news and perspectives on the world of gaming!

















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(edited by Zlinqx on 07-16-16 08:27 PM)     Post Rating: 7   Liked By: Eirinn, Eniitan, gamerforlifeforever, Lexatom, RDay13, Uzar, ZeroTails,

06-11-16 09:03 PM
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Hmm...an interesting perspective. I think you already know where I stand on this, and we agree on some things but not on others. We definitely agree for the most part on what went wrong with the Wii U, but I'm still inclined to say that competing with PS4 and XB1 is a must for them now. In fact I think failure to compete was a large part of what made the Wii U tank.

According to one AAA company employee, developers were initially excited about the gamepad and the possibilities it offered, but they had to skip the system in the end because it lacked enough power to run their games. Now developers will develop for a system regardless of power IF it has enough of an install base, but without a solid initial AAA push at the start, the customers won't buy into it to begin with - especially after the Wii U's lack of games.

Accessibility is important but remember the Ouya? Not many do, but it was as accessible as could be. Super cheap, allowed modding, and ran Android - a platform many developers already use anyway. Still it failed because it lacked any real pull. So accessibility alone won't cut it, but it would certainly help.


And finally, I think a huge risk is the only thing that Nintendo can save themselves with now. Go all or nothing and make a powerful machine that hosts all of the same multiplats as PS4 and XB1 plus their kid friendly titles. As you alluded to, Nintendo's reputation is part of what is killing them. I mean they have been seen as a kid company for years now and that just isn't selling for them anymore. Now they WOULD NOT turn it around in one generation with this method, but it would go a long way toward making them a viable choice to hard core gamers once again. They need to pick a path and stick with it, and I think making themselves appeal to everyone is the best path - look at the NES, SNES, PS2, and PS4 for examples of that. All were the best sellers of their time, and all had content that appealed to everyone.

I said "finally" at the start of the last paragraph...I lied.

Nintendo could potentially go underpowered and make it, but I only see that happening if they release a few NEW first party IPs and said IPs are mature (T or M). Because frankly their old IPs just aren't selling their consoles anymore, so adding new IPs that actually appeal to most core gamers is a must if they want to go underpowered and survive. Still, methinks competing enough in terms of power and so winning AAA third party support along with ditching a kid only appearance is all that will save them in the hardware business. But that's just me.


Nice article Mr. Zlinqy.
Hmm...an interesting perspective. I think you already know where I stand on this, and we agree on some things but not on others. We definitely agree for the most part on what went wrong with the Wii U, but I'm still inclined to say that competing with PS4 and XB1 is a must for them now. In fact I think failure to compete was a large part of what made the Wii U tank.

According to one AAA company employee, developers were initially excited about the gamepad and the possibilities it offered, but they had to skip the system in the end because it lacked enough power to run their games. Now developers will develop for a system regardless of power IF it has enough of an install base, but without a solid initial AAA push at the start, the customers won't buy into it to begin with - especially after the Wii U's lack of games.

Accessibility is important but remember the Ouya? Not many do, but it was as accessible as could be. Super cheap, allowed modding, and ran Android - a platform many developers already use anyway. Still it failed because it lacked any real pull. So accessibility alone won't cut it, but it would certainly help.


And finally, I think a huge risk is the only thing that Nintendo can save themselves with now. Go all or nothing and make a powerful machine that hosts all of the same multiplats as PS4 and XB1 plus their kid friendly titles. As you alluded to, Nintendo's reputation is part of what is killing them. I mean they have been seen as a kid company for years now and that just isn't selling for them anymore. Now they WOULD NOT turn it around in one generation with this method, but it would go a long way toward making them a viable choice to hard core gamers once again. They need to pick a path and stick with it, and I think making themselves appeal to everyone is the best path - look at the NES, SNES, PS2, and PS4 for examples of that. All were the best sellers of their time, and all had content that appealed to everyone.

I said "finally" at the start of the last paragraph...I lied.

Nintendo could potentially go underpowered and make it, but I only see that happening if they release a few NEW first party IPs and said IPs are mature (T or M). Because frankly their old IPs just aren't selling their consoles anymore, so adding new IPs that actually appeal to most core gamers is a must if they want to go underpowered and survive. Still, methinks competing enough in terms of power and so winning AAA third party support along with ditching a kid only appearance is all that will save them in the hardware business. But that's just me.


Nice article Mr. Zlinqy.
Vizzed Elite
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06-11-16 11:28 PM
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Ultimately, what sells consoles aren't the specs that the console has, but rather the games and software that are played using those specs. Although gamers enjoy seeing the best graphics in the highest quality. 4k 60fps isn't what sells the bulk of consoles to buyers. Creating a strong, powerful console will coax a lot of people to buy the system, but the majority of the consumers are interested in what games are on the system. If Nintendo focused more on software development and less on their hardware, they would have more happy customers. If you give me a great console with an amazing ability to play games, but don't create any games for it, I won't care. If Nintendo really wants another success like the GameCube or the Wii, they need to provide amazing launch titles.
Ultimately, what sells consoles aren't the specs that the console has, but rather the games and software that are played using those specs. Although gamers enjoy seeing the best graphics in the highest quality. 4k 60fps isn't what sells the bulk of consoles to buyers. Creating a strong, powerful console will coax a lot of people to buy the system, but the majority of the consumers are interested in what games are on the system. If Nintendo focused more on software development and less on their hardware, they would have more happy customers. If you give me a great console with an amazing ability to play games, but don't create any games for it, I won't care. If Nintendo really wants another success like the GameCube or the Wii, they need to provide amazing launch titles.
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Zlinqx : yeah its kinda sad how the Nintendo  franchises is nowadays. I mean that's why I stopped buying anything to do with their modern things . I still have the original wii and that's about it. It was the only fun thing about Nintendo for me years ago. Until they started to do what you said zlinqx. Which I don't need to go into details for. Its the most reason as you said why people now either buy ps4 or xbox consoles. And you know what? I don't really blame the people for doing that as Nintendo driven them away with how they sell the wii u and many more to that as well. :/
Zlinqx : yeah its kinda sad how the Nintendo  franchises is nowadays. I mean that's why I stopped buying anything to do with their modern things . I still have the original wii and that's about it. It was the only fun thing about Nintendo for me years ago. Until they started to do what you said zlinqx. Which I don't need to go into details for. Its the most reason as you said why people now either buy ps4 or xbox consoles. And you know what? I don't really blame the people for doing that as Nintendo driven them away with how they sell the wii u and many more to that as well. :/
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We had a discussion about this and I haven't really changed my mind about it.

For now i'm gonna agree with Eirinn and say that they MUST compete, and pretty much agree with the rest of the things he said as well.


Good article, as always even though we disagreed on this one.
We had a discussion about this and I haven't really changed my mind about it.

For now i'm gonna agree with Eirinn and say that they MUST compete, and pretty much agree with the rest of the things he said as well.


Good article, as always even though we disagreed on this one.
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imamonster :

: Some developers probably found it interesting but I think it's likely just as many didn't like the idea of the gamepad because of having to implement some sort gamepad functionality.

No I didn't really until you brought it up again. That's the thing the Ouya came from a brand new company. They had no name recognizability, no big name exclusives, essentially nothing that gave people the impression that they'd get their money's worth and have anything worthwhile to play on it (not to mention that controller). In fact I think many people were unaware it even existed when it came out, let alone that barely anyone outside of their backers were hyped for it. Nintendo have all those things though and does have a pull in terms of their first party games which actually can be system sellers, just look at how the sales of the Wii U went up after the launch of Mario Kart 8 or Smash Bros U. If they were to more directly market these games I'm sure it could help spread hype among less serious gamers as well.

I see where you're coming from but the thing is Nintendo doesn't really seem to be in a position where they can try to compete with Sony and Microsoft again. Like you said to successfully be able to get to that point, it's going to require a lot of time and work over several console generations. Setting them up for another financial failure with their next console as they won't have gotten to that point yet, still having that reputation, and likely still having inferior 3rd party support. This while keeping in mind if their next console doesn't do signficantly better they may have to give up on home console production overall. It just is not worth the risk overall especially since this is going to impact the company overall, not just home console production and requires a larger investment. Simply put, I don't think they'll be able to beat Sony and Microsoft at their own game.

Developing an accessible console is in my opinion the best course of action because no company is better suited to do so than them. They've already gone underpowered with both the Wii and Wii U but those both had gimmicks attached to them that kept them from being a true low budget console. It takes advantage of the few thing Nintendo has going for it that Sony and Microsoft don't. In terms of their exclusives never being about having cutting edge graphics but using what's there to create something great. While taking advantage of the reputation they have of being this casual gamer friendly company. They're not going to get rid of that reputation unless they drastically change the direction of their 1st party IPs which doesn't seem like the best thing to do when those are one of the few positive things they have going for them. In stead they should invest in bringing a few 3rd party developers on board with the idea to develop games for more mature audiences. Worth nothing also is that they have Bayonetta as well as many franchises intended for more mature audiences that are stuck on the 3ds, that they could also try to make a console adaption of. 

They wouldn't really have to face that same competition and it could in fact overlap to some extent as some may get the console alongside the newest offering from Sony or Microsoft. It's something that doesn't require taking as huge of a risk in terms of how much they invest while at the same time seeming a lot more profitable. That's how I see it.
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imamonster :

: Some developers probably found it interesting but I think it's likely just as many didn't like the idea of the gamepad because of having to implement some sort gamepad functionality.

No I didn't really until you brought it up again. That's the thing the Ouya came from a brand new company. They had no name recognizability, no big name exclusives, essentially nothing that gave people the impression that they'd get their money's worth and have anything worthwhile to play on it (not to mention that controller). In fact I think many people were unaware it even existed when it came out, let alone that barely anyone outside of their backers were hyped for it. Nintendo have all those things though and does have a pull in terms of their first party games which actually can be system sellers, just look at how the sales of the Wii U went up after the launch of Mario Kart 8 or Smash Bros U. If they were to more directly market these games I'm sure it could help spread hype among less serious gamers as well.

I see where you're coming from but the thing is Nintendo doesn't really seem to be in a position where they can try to compete with Sony and Microsoft again. Like you said to successfully be able to get to that point, it's going to require a lot of time and work over several console generations. Setting them up for another financial failure with their next console as they won't have gotten to that point yet, still having that reputation, and likely still having inferior 3rd party support. This while keeping in mind if their next console doesn't do signficantly better they may have to give up on home console production overall. It just is not worth the risk overall especially since this is going to impact the company overall, not just home console production and requires a larger investment. Simply put, I don't think they'll be able to beat Sony and Microsoft at their own game.

Developing an accessible console is in my opinion the best course of action because no company is better suited to do so than them. They've already gone underpowered with both the Wii and Wii U but those both had gimmicks attached to them that kept them from being a true low budget console. It takes advantage of the few thing Nintendo has going for it that Sony and Microsoft don't. In terms of their exclusives never being about having cutting edge graphics but using what's there to create something great. While taking advantage of the reputation they have of being this casual gamer friendly company. They're not going to get rid of that reputation unless they drastically change the direction of their 1st party IPs which doesn't seem like the best thing to do when those are one of the few positive things they have going for them. In stead they should invest in bringing a few 3rd party developers on board with the idea to develop games for more mature audiences. Worth nothing also is that they have Bayonetta as well as many franchises intended for more mature audiences that are stuck on the 3ds, that they could also try to make a console adaption of. 

They wouldn't really have to face that same competition and it could in fact overlap to some extent as some may get the console alongside the newest offering from Sony or Microsoft. It's something that doesn't require taking as huge of a risk in terms of how much they invest while at the same time seeming a lot more profitable. That's how I see it.
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Honestly speaking the Wii sold well because it had a good gimmick... and a few good games... amongst the millions of shovel ware games as well. 

The Wii U added a gimmick that didn't work well because it was just a bit too "out there" to simply make high quality games for etc. And that's not including the lack of power etc. 

Honestly though I feel that Nintendo are simply failing because they have decent competition... I mean thinking back this is the first time Nintendo has really had to worry about market popularity since before the NES. 

I feel the NX will be make or break for them honestly when it comes to home consoles... luckily for Nintendo they dominate the handheld market... which sounds great but with mobile phones getting more advanced its hard to say how long it may last for... 

As someone that pretty much dislikes Nintendo, this isn't me rubbishing the company... I just feel that the majority of people like it due to it's game exclusivity.... if that's the case then perhaps Nintendo simply need to up their game on the game front so to speak... People talk about Nintendo great line up of games... but there's about 5... yes they might be Nintendo exclusives... but it still doesn't really compare to the 50 or so good games shared by the other brands...  I don't know about you guys... but I'd rather have 50 good games to enjoy than 5 "great games" 

I think Nintendo just have to actually try and make a decent console with a decent game list ready for it's launch... and ignore gimmicks... but that's just me
Honestly speaking the Wii sold well because it had a good gimmick... and a few good games... amongst the millions of shovel ware games as well. 

The Wii U added a gimmick that didn't work well because it was just a bit too "out there" to simply make high quality games for etc. And that's not including the lack of power etc. 

Honestly though I feel that Nintendo are simply failing because they have decent competition... I mean thinking back this is the first time Nintendo has really had to worry about market popularity since before the NES. 

I feel the NX will be make or break for them honestly when it comes to home consoles... luckily for Nintendo they dominate the handheld market... which sounds great but with mobile phones getting more advanced its hard to say how long it may last for... 

As someone that pretty much dislikes Nintendo, this isn't me rubbishing the company... I just feel that the majority of people like it due to it's game exclusivity.... if that's the case then perhaps Nintendo simply need to up their game on the game front so to speak... People talk about Nintendo great line up of games... but there's about 5... yes they might be Nintendo exclusives... but it still doesn't really compare to the 50 or so good games shared by the other brands...  I don't know about you guys... but I'd rather have 50 good games to enjoy than 5 "great games" 

I think Nintendo just have to actually try and make a decent console with a decent game list ready for it's launch... and ignore gimmicks... but that's just me
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I would think their first change must come from within. They are needlessly rough on their loyal users,anyone that posts a Nintendo game video on You Tube,and their biggest flaw,having a machine that is gimmicky and hiding a weak spec sheet and not being third party support.

They have to move beyond Pokemon,which is the one of the few things why they still exist. You can only rehash the same game so many times before people tire of it. They need to remember what made them great in the NES/SNES eras,willingness to work with others,third party support,and various types of games.

But I think their death knell is near,that little stunt that Nintendo pulled with Sony. If they had stayed with Sony,they would still be a force to be reckoned with and have not given birth to their rival and better. Nintendo,kid friendly consoles will not win the war,gamers are gaming into their 30s and 40s and beyond and Nintendo has not kept pace. Nintendo,learn from your rivals what made them good. Yes,Microsoft has made some serious mistakes,Sony is not blameless in that regard as well. But they have learned to read the market and showed respect to their fans by releasing more diverse games as well as better network play.
I would think their first change must come from within. They are needlessly rough on their loyal users,anyone that posts a Nintendo game video on You Tube,and their biggest flaw,having a machine that is gimmicky and hiding a weak spec sheet and not being third party support.

They have to move beyond Pokemon,which is the one of the few things why they still exist. You can only rehash the same game so many times before people tire of it. They need to remember what made them great in the NES/SNES eras,willingness to work with others,third party support,and various types of games.

But I think their death knell is near,that little stunt that Nintendo pulled with Sony. If they had stayed with Sony,they would still be a force to be reckoned with and have not given birth to their rival and better. Nintendo,kid friendly consoles will not win the war,gamers are gaming into their 30s and 40s and beyond and Nintendo has not kept pace. Nintendo,learn from your rivals what made them good. Yes,Microsoft has made some serious mistakes,Sony is not blameless in that regard as well. But they have learned to read the market and showed respect to their fans by releasing more diverse games as well as better network play.
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Tyrian Delirium :
Oldschool777 :
Sorry for the late reply, but I feel you two hit it right on the head: Nintendo needs more high quality games. That's the Wii U's biggest problem really, they said "forget third parties" and tried to support an entire console with only their games, and no company can do that. It takes far too much time to make a solid AAA game to put them out quickly enough to support yourself alone. And yes the specs were what kept devs from doing that, but Nintendo still got a few third party games on Wii U, and I believe they could have gotten some more. No they could never have landed the likes of Arkham Knight and such, but they could have landed more than they did. So while I feel competing in power is important, I also feel that they need to work on third party relations to get to that point. That's why PlayStation does as well as it does: huge emphasis on third parties alongside a solid first party lineup.

Nintendo has played the supplemental system (second console around the house) card for too long. People often can't afford two systems so they gravitate toward one single console that offers something for the whole family (a point PlayStation has striven for with PS4, resulting in great success), and Nintendo hasn't delivered on that since the SNES really, and coincidentally (or not, really) the SNES was their last truly successful system excluding Wii and it's fad sales.

Also no truer words have been spoken than when Oldschool mentioned that Nintendo can't handle real competition. Look at how the NES did, but it had no competition. SNES won it's generation but by a much smaller margin because it had real competition. Then from N64 and on the competition was just too serious and they couldn't adapt. They're too slow to adjust to changes, and if they don't learn to do so soon it'll be the end.
Tyrian Delirium :
Oldschool777 :
Sorry for the late reply, but I feel you two hit it right on the head: Nintendo needs more high quality games. That's the Wii U's biggest problem really, they said "forget third parties" and tried to support an entire console with only their games, and no company can do that. It takes far too much time to make a solid AAA game to put them out quickly enough to support yourself alone. And yes the specs were what kept devs from doing that, but Nintendo still got a few third party games on Wii U, and I believe they could have gotten some more. No they could never have landed the likes of Arkham Knight and such, but they could have landed more than they did. So while I feel competing in power is important, I also feel that they need to work on third party relations to get to that point. That's why PlayStation does as well as it does: huge emphasis on third parties alongside a solid first party lineup.

Nintendo has played the supplemental system (second console around the house) card for too long. People often can't afford two systems so they gravitate toward one single console that offers something for the whole family (a point PlayStation has striven for with PS4, resulting in great success), and Nintendo hasn't delivered on that since the SNES really, and coincidentally (or not, really) the SNES was their last truly successful system excluding Wii and it's fad sales.

Also no truer words have been spoken than when Oldschool mentioned that Nintendo can't handle real competition. Look at how the NES did, but it had no competition. SNES won it's generation but by a much smaller margin because it had real competition. Then from N64 and on the competition was just too serious and they couldn't adapt. They're too slow to adjust to changes, and if they don't learn to do so soon it'll be the end.
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Actually the NES was competing with the Sega Master System at the time. The SMS may have had a bit more graphics power but the sound was awful and the case art they had did not help. (a grid on the box with a bit of art on it.) The SNES won due to a good machine and a wider array of games. The Genesis was known for fighting and sports games. Also Sega tried to wring out more life of their aging console with gimmicks,so by the time the Saturn arrived,they were already in a bad spot.

Where Nintendo went wrong was their VR Boy,a horrible system that displayed things in red and black and you had to take frequent breaks from the damned thing. Not to mention that thing could be broken with an accidental fall. Then they attempted to screw over Sony (we all know how that went),partnered with Phillips to make the horrible CD-i and that went straight to hell. By the time they tried to recover with the N64,everyone swapped over to discs while the N64 used a cartridge. Yes,a cart is more durable and can be read faster,it did not allow for intensive games. Plus it was a kiddie console. The Game Cube made a good effort,but their propriety technology backfired on them.

And Tyrain made a good point with their handheld division. For now they hold the edge but that may not be for long with mobile gaming becoming better and offering more choices,plus you do not have to carry an extra system with you. The very thing that saved Nintendo may be the thing that kills them.

Fun Fact: Nintendo was originally a hanafuda (Japanese playing cards) manufacturer.

 http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/Hanafuda
Actually the NES was competing with the Sega Master System at the time. The SMS may have had a bit more graphics power but the sound was awful and the case art they had did not help. (a grid on the box with a bit of art on it.) The SNES won due to a good machine and a wider array of games. The Genesis was known for fighting and sports games. Also Sega tried to wring out more life of their aging console with gimmicks,so by the time the Saturn arrived,they were already in a bad spot.

Where Nintendo went wrong was their VR Boy,a horrible system that displayed things in red and black and you had to take frequent breaks from the damned thing. Not to mention that thing could be broken with an accidental fall. Then they attempted to screw over Sony (we all know how that went),partnered with Phillips to make the horrible CD-i and that went straight to hell. By the time they tried to recover with the N64,everyone swapped over to discs while the N64 used a cartridge. Yes,a cart is more durable and can be read faster,it did not allow for intensive games. Plus it was a kiddie console. The Game Cube made a good effort,but their propriety technology backfired on them.

And Tyrain made a good point with their handheld division. For now they hold the edge but that may not be for long with mobile gaming becoming better and offering more choices,plus you do not have to carry an extra system with you. The very thing that saved Nintendo may be the thing that kills them.

Fun Fact: Nintendo was originally a hanafuda (Japanese playing cards) manufacturer.

 http://nintendo.wikia.com/wiki/Hanafuda
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Oldschool777 : Yeah I'm aware of the SMS, but what I meant was that it didn't offer the NES any serious competition like the Genesis did. And interestingly enough, the Genesis held up as well as it did because SEGA embraced technological upgrades before Nintendo was willing to (same as today). The SNES eventually won but yes that was largely due to landing more third parties (something Nintendo has failed to even TRY to do lately), and also because of their opponents using too many gimmicks.

So Nintendo scrapes by because their competitor falls into the trap of releasing gimmicky systems and they somehow fail to remember this years later and fall into the same trap. -__-


Also on a side note, I liked the SMS and Genesis much more than NES and SNES. The game selection won me over even though I'm not a fighting game or sports game fan. SNES blocked some really good games because they wanted to please parents. Plus multiplats between Genesis and SNES usually ran better on Genesis...usually.
Oldschool777 : Yeah I'm aware of the SMS, but what I meant was that it didn't offer the NES any serious competition like the Genesis did. And interestingly enough, the Genesis held up as well as it did because SEGA embraced technological upgrades before Nintendo was willing to (same as today). The SNES eventually won but yes that was largely due to landing more third parties (something Nintendo has failed to even TRY to do lately), and also because of their opponents using too many gimmicks.

So Nintendo scrapes by because their competitor falls into the trap of releasing gimmicky systems and they somehow fail to remember this years later and fall into the same trap. -__-


Also on a side note, I liked the SMS and Genesis much more than NES and SNES. The game selection won me over even though I'm not a fighting game or sports game fan. SNES blocked some really good games because they wanted to please parents. Plus multiplats between Genesis and SNES usually ran better on Genesis...usually.
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Well in the 16 bit era it was basically the SNES/Genesis. I think Turbo Graphics 16 was in there,but was a distant 3rd. I think the reason the SNES won was mainly what you said,but they also had a much more loyal fan base. Nintendo seems to have a short and selective memory these days. They are still stuck in the time when you needed a mascot character. Playstation had one early,but it was proven to be not needed (even though Crash has some good games).

Nintendo needs to take their collective heads out of their butts,ditch their rose colored glasses,and see what their current offerings are: A lame kiddie friendly system that has little third party support and counted on a gimmick that works only marginally better than the Power Glove did. I liked the variety that the NES/SNES had and although they had some speed bumps *cough* movie and tv tie in games *cough*,they did well and most were pleased.

I think the biggest show of who the companies were was during the first MK game. Genesis allowed the blood and stuff and the SNES had to settle for red colored sweat enabled by a code. Where Sega messed up was waiting way too long to release the Saturn,limited game library,and just forgetting about the customers. Nintendo is committing many of the same sins and treats their customers like either docile sheep or like stepped on crap. Nintendo has to realize that gamers have grown up,and evolve with the times. And Nintendo cannot count on their original product,hanafuda cards to save them.

Maybe they should do what Sega did,abandon the hardware and do software for other companies. Yes,they will have given up in a way,but they are still alive. But knowing Nintendo,they will be blind to that as well. Shame,Nintendo had a good run.
Well in the 16 bit era it was basically the SNES/Genesis. I think Turbo Graphics 16 was in there,but was a distant 3rd. I think the reason the SNES won was mainly what you said,but they also had a much more loyal fan base. Nintendo seems to have a short and selective memory these days. They are still stuck in the time when you needed a mascot character. Playstation had one early,but it was proven to be not needed (even though Crash has some good games).

Nintendo needs to take their collective heads out of their butts,ditch their rose colored glasses,and see what their current offerings are: A lame kiddie friendly system that has little third party support and counted on a gimmick that works only marginally better than the Power Glove did. I liked the variety that the NES/SNES had and although they had some speed bumps *cough* movie and tv tie in games *cough*,they did well and most were pleased.

I think the biggest show of who the companies were was during the first MK game. Genesis allowed the blood and stuff and the SNES had to settle for red colored sweat enabled by a code. Where Sega messed up was waiting way too long to release the Saturn,limited game library,and just forgetting about the customers. Nintendo is committing many of the same sins and treats their customers like either docile sheep or like stepped on crap. Nintendo has to realize that gamers have grown up,and evolve with the times. And Nintendo cannot count on their original product,hanafuda cards to save them.

Maybe they should do what Sega did,abandon the hardware and do software for other companies. Yes,they will have given up in a way,but they are still alive. But knowing Nintendo,they will be blind to that as well. Shame,Nintendo had a good run.
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