I feel like part of the issue is this idea that men are meant to be resilient.
This surprised me: Men commit suicide at the rate of 3:1 to women. Which is crazy cause it's better to be a dude!
You get paid more. You get male privilege. You've got the patriarcy on your side. You don't menstruate! IT's good!
Up until the age of 8 or 9, boys cry the same amount as girls... then they get taught to stop. They're not allowed anymore. And it's ridiculous! And this fear of looking weak, or looking feminine or gay is stopping men from talking about their feelings.
Then they kill themselves.

And apperantly, it's fine to attack males! It's empowering to women to bellitle a man's opinion or self worth. It's okay for a woman to attack a guy because hey we deserve it, right?

Women get costudy of the child the majority of the time, even when the father is more qualified than the mother, because "A child needs her mom".

Dads aren't respected. Apperantly males aren't fit to raise a child. It's insane. They're just a paycheck. They have a job, and that's it. Men are told they are expandable. Disposable. A guy being raped is seen as a laughing matter. A guy being domestically abused? "Probably deserves it". It's disgusting.

The ban men movement, unfollow a man day, #Killallmen, ihatemen.org, all the new gendered insults by a movement of supposedly against gendered insults: mainsplaining, man slamming, man spreading, dude-bro. The mockery of men's suffering, the open celebration of male suffering, endless lists, tumblrs, instagrams, websites dedicated to mocking and publicly shaming men for doing anything feminists have deemed wrong, including sitting with too much space between their knees.

And this is all from the past few years. After all, when you teach women that every single man is their opressor, how can you not hate them?

(Please don't turn this thread into a "Yeah feminists suck they should all die lol" type thread)

Sexism is a thing, only serious solution I've ever thought of is don't be sexist. Biggest problem is that it's so common in society.

Edit: Well then, this was in the entirely wrong thread. This is what happens when you post after 12 hours of work, kids.

maguc:
Kind of surprised to see that you're the one posting this :p

I guess I'll take the time to address this as one of Vizzed's only remaining feminists, and basically every other -ist this site's users generally oppose. Its worth noting that I, and most other feminists, in fact, do consider these gender norms shoved onto men and boys to be a problem. I sympathize with it, and I am in favor of breaking down gender norms and stereotypes on all sides, and not only for the benefit of women, as many of feminism's online detractors might suppose, but for all people. I think men should be totally unobstructed socially and legally from becoming a nurse, or a teacher, or the guardian of their children should they prove the more capable parents. I'm going to be defending feminism a lot here, so I'll ask you all to try and keep in mind that in doing so I'm not "siding with the feminazis" and supporting sexism against men, but explaining that feminism is actually not responsible for most of these things, and in fact is against them.


So let's look at what I consider the more important issues regarding men that you've mentioned:

"Up until the age of 8 or 9, boys cry the same amount as girls... then they get taught to stop. They're not allowed anymore. And it's ridiculous! And this fear of looking weak, or looking feminine or gay is stopping men from talking about their feelings."
This is indeed a common emotional problem that affects men. Myself included, even! 

"Women get costudy of the child the majority of the time, even when the father is more qualified than the mother, because "A child needs her mom"."
Pretty straightforward sexism here, and I'm against it. And this is definitely common in courts across America.

"Men are told they are expandable. Disposable. A guy being raped is seen as a laughing matter. A guy being domestically abused? "Probably deserves it". It's disgusting. "
These attitudes, while I rarely see them, are definitely bad, and I'd prefer they were even less common.

Now, these are all grievances you've listed that I'd say are not at all related to feminism. Feminist activism has never been responsible for these social issues, and in fact feminists generally oppose these policies and attitudes.
As a rule, people who go around telling young boys to suck it up, and "don't cry or I'll give you something to cry about" are NOT feminists, but their own parents (I'd even say it's mostly fathers), and fellow children.
When it comes to custody, courts tending to give women custody more often than men used to be because of the old idea that "a child should be with their mother", but that has been fading as a legal rock to stand on. So why are mothers still so much more likely to gain custody? Part of it is still sexism, but another part is the fact that courts favor the parent who has been the "primary caregiver". That means the parent who has spent more time bathing, feeding, watching, putting them to bed, going through the morning routine, all the day-to-day minutia of childcare. And unfortunately, (if you're like me and think those responsibilities should be mostly equally
shared) the mother is still much more likely than the father to be the one who performs those duties while the couple is still married.
As for people laughing at and looking down on male rape victims, I'd once again say the main perpetrators of this are not feminists at all, but good old-fashioned conservatives.


What all those problems have in common is that feminist beliefs actually discourage or oppose them. 

As for whatever some random tumblr kids are doing... I don't approve of a lot of it, but I don't think any of it is prominent in the real world, and in fact the only times I've ever heard about them have been when anti-feminists from reddit or 4chan dig them up to show how "feminism has gone TOO FAR."  I don't see the point of bringing up some random blogs as though they are anywhere close to the importance or popularity of the problems we have with gender roles in our society in general.

"And this is all from the past few years. After all, when you teach women that every single man is their opressor, how can you not hate them?"
Speaking as a feminist, I don't hate all men or think they are all oppressors, and I'm sure the vast majority of girls don't feel that way either. What needs to be done about these problems isn't to complain about or attack feminism as if it caused them. Those problems have all been here much longer than feminism has.

That, my friend, is double standard. A horrid world we live in. While i'm not too emotional, I would probably cry if I was truly depressed. Men should be allowed to attack Women only if it's in self-defense. You forgot to mention Stay-at-home dads. They care for their children while their wives are at work. At times, feminists could make it seem like they're not trying to find equality between men and women; they want to be superior towards men. That's were the problems begin with those that hate feminists. Look at Anita Sarkeesian, or the feminists who hate on people who think Rey is an unbelievable character. But... what do I know? 

Morsalbus : I applaud your explanation and examples. Thank you.

Feminism's objective to take away gender advantage and disadvantage at the same time. Feminism is not meant to advance women at the expense of men. It is meant to create equality and remove the construct of gender from the entire conversation.

Most people don't see that, though, because of representation and vocal feminists who actively attack men the same way certain males go after females in general.

maguc : Here's the deal: There will always be groups against whatever you like. There are people who are anti-gamers, anti-males, anti-(Pick a country), anti-religion, anti-atheism, anti-voters, anti-rap, etc, etc.

The trick is to recognize the internet gives people anonymity and connection with people like them. That makes them strong. I have never heard of your websites, like ihatemen.com or whatever and I won't go check them out.

Ultimately, everyone has the odds stacked against them to some degree. But white males are in the best position compared to any other demographic, even in developed countries like the United States, Germany, England, France, etc. Complaining isn't going to do anything. Give us a solution.

As someone who considers themself a feminist despite the amount of dislike that words faces on the site and many parts of the Internet and someone who used to shy away from the term, I have to echo what others have said. Most feminists are against these gender stereotypes/norms that affect both men and women negatively. The definition itself is about gender equality for everyone. It is not the root of the issues. I feel like that's where the problem lies with how so many people being resistant to the label.  It used to be that feminism was focused on just women's issues, naturally as they have been historically in equal missing many of the most basic rights so it made sense to focus on those issues. A lot of progress has been made though and now in the western world at least it's really more about equality for all genders as everyone still face hardships from these norms.

Yes there are people who attack men the so called "feminazis" but those are a vocal minority who primarily have gained ground through the Internet and don't hold as much relevance in the real world. Just like those people exist there's still a lot of people who vocally attack women. People should stop getting hung up on the label used and focus more on bringing these stereotypes/norms affecting everyone to light.

While I'm all for gender equality, I can't stand gender-based nitpicking. Sure some feminists are exceptionally aggressive when discussing the problems with men, but who says we can't be like that too? Men might assume all feminists are the same and choose to single them out, which in my opinion, shouldn't happen. People should stop assuming things and get their facts straight. We could all adopt a bit of selflessness and decency, in regards of the realm of feminism. Why else do male feminists exist? Thanks for elaborating, Zlinqx. 

Morsalbus : Happy surprise, or bad surprise?
Ghostbear1111 :
Zlinqx :
Ultrajeff : (Yeah, there are actually a ton of issues I forgot to address xd but hey, that's what a discussion is for!)

I'm not sure I understand. I don't mean to attack feminism. In fact, I consider myself a feminist myself. I guess i'm really making a statement against the extremity some people have, believing that sexism against males doesn't exist/is justified.
I don't believe I mentioned the word feminist until the very last part of my post, which had little to do with what I had said. I never said that feminism was the cause of all this.

If a person believes that advocating for the rights of men is against feminism/sexist/anti-women, then they are clearly not feminists. Does that make sense?

Because feminism, or equality, or whatever you want to call it, isn't men vs women, it's men and women working together to abolish sexism as a whole, whether it's against men, women, or anything in between.

Both extremes are terrible. These so called "Feminazi's" and "Anti-Feminists" don't help anyone, in fact they're the ones who (Most of the time) are perpetuating negative comments or movements.

maguc : Sorry my post wasn't as much aimed at you as it was Ultrajeff (whom I forgot to summon) and a lot of the people reading and liking your post. I actually agree with the points you made I just feel like a thread like this is more prone to become about anti feminism even though I know that's not what you intend for it to be.

Zlinqx : Yeah, I can see that. Which is why I added a "Please don't let this turn into a feminism hate thread", which hopefully people follow.

Yeah it's ridiculous...