Remove Ad, Sign Up
Register to Remove Ad
Register to Remove Ad
Remove Ad, Sign Up
Register to Remove Ad
Register to Remove Ad
Signup for Free!
-More Features-
-Far Less Ads-
About   Users   Help
Users & Guests Online
On Page: 1
Directory: 104
Entire Site: 5 & 909
Page Staff: pokemon x, pennylessz, Barathemos, tgags123, alexanyways, supercool22, RavusRat,
04-23-24 09:26 PM

Thread Information

Views
1,382
Replies
3
Rating
2
Status
OPEN
Thread
Creator
Eirinn
04-26-16 06:01 AM
Last
Post
Eirinn
04-28-16 08:41 PM
Additional Thread Details
Views: 1,004
Today: 0
Users: 1 unique

Thread Actions

Order
 

Toejam & Earl: Back In The Groove - The Controversy

 

04-26-16 06:01 AM
Eirinn is Offline
| ID: 1265653 | 1850 Words

Eirinn
Level: 154


POSTS: 5564/7900
POST EXP: 1300417
LVL EXP: 46029287
CP: 69368.0
VIZ: 1836533

Likes: 1  Dislikes: 0
Before we begin, I would like to note that this isn't a personal rant, rather a reflection of what many are voicing and feeling in general, myself included. This article is not intended to be taken as an allegation of any kind, rather to ask why the matter has been handled this way, and to point out that it wasn't necessary, but was legal and to some, right.
____________________



A Legend Is Born

 
Jammin'

Once upon a time a game called Toejam & Earl launched on the SEGA Genesis/Megadrive. It was a game no one ever would have expected, about two aliens from the planet Funkatron who crash landed on Earth (you should never let Earl drive). This game came in without any real attention but soon became what we call a "sleeper hit" and everyone was talking about it. In fact it was so popular that it's rumored that SEGA considered making TJ&E their mascots, though whether that's true or not I have no idea, but I would doubt it since SEGA didn't own the rights to Toejam & Earl, rather JVP did.


A Legend Gets A Sequel...Sort Of

 
A funky new view of Funkatron

Fast forward a few years. JVP pitches the idea to SEGA for a sequel to the huge success that was Toejam & Earl. SEGA in their infinite wisdom and ability to predict the game market that so obviously led them to huge things shortly thereafter (No laughs? Really? Fine.) told JVP that they could indeed put a Toejam & Earl 2 on the Genesis IF they met one small requirement: change the game completely, scrapping every idea they had for it and basically the only things they could leave unchanged were Toejam & Earl as characters.

Sadly JVP had little choice and so they did as SEGA insisted and made Toejam & Earl: Panic on Funkatron into a platformer. According to SEGA a game like the first one that was so hugely popular would never sell because logic. Instead they needed to make it a platformer because that's what every other big game coming out right then was, so people would buy it... Yes, you read that right: SEGA said something that was more of the same wouldn't sell, and instead what they needed to do was make it like the vast majority of other games at the time. More of the same won't sell, so instead make it more of the same, because logic. To be fair, platformers really were huge at the time, but then again so was the original, non-platformer game Toejam & Earl.

So fans got another TJ&E like we wanted, only many were like me and got the game without even looking at the back cover for game pictures, rather we had to have it because it was Toejam & Earl 2. Then when we got it home and put it in, we realized it wasn't like what we expected it to be.

Disappointment ensued.

However the game was a solid platformer and JVP at least managed to make it a very unique platformer, and one that stood out from the crowd. Great game, but not TJ&E, at least, not the way the majority of us wanted.


Another Attempt At Legendary Funklord Status


TJ&E in 3D = three dimensions of funk

Fast forward (again) to Toejam & Earl: Mission To Earth. The developers once again tried to go back to TJ&E's roots, but alas, the publishers did one of the things that publishers do best and demanded the game be changed. Once again, we would get what little remained of the original intentions of the developers, or in other words, a game that was half TJ&E half something else entirely, and fans were disappointed once more.


A Return To Legendary Greatness?


Oh, a sight for sore eyes, that art


Now the year is 2015. I mean the year we're discussing, not the year you're reading this. Focus.
So in 2015 Greg Johnson, owner of Humanature studios, and one of the two men behind the first Toejam & Earl (the J of JVP) announces on Kickstarter that his team wants to make the long overdue true successor to the first Toejam & Earl. They set the goal for $400,000 which, I am told, was hit overnight. Wow. See, didn't I tell you that people wanted a straight up sequel to Toejam & Earl? All these years and so-called-sequel letdowns later, and we're still willing to entrust you with $400,000 that easily Greg.

Trust.

Funny choice of words, that. You see this is where things get shady...

As any good kickstarter campaigner does, Humanature decided quickly that even though they asked for $400,000 to make the game what it should be, they really meant that they wanted, or excuse me, "needed" $550,000 to make the game the way they truly wanted to.

Now hold on a minute here. Let's just get this straight real quick: I understand the concept of stretch goals and that they are common practice, however I think they are terrible devices that openly showcase an artist's willingness to forsake their own artistic integrity in order to make money. How so? It's simple really: stretch goals say "We asked for X amount of money, and really we COULD make the game with that much, but we really want to add all of these other features into it and the amount we set as our base goal isn't enough to fund that." So in other words the developer just told you that they were willing to cut out considerable portions of what they truly had envisioned in order to produce half of the game and make money. That they would rather sell half a game and make money than settle on the all or nothing approach of "we need this much money to make it right, or we just won't make it. Our vision means too much to us to compromise it." That's a bit like us getting half of the Mona Lisa because the cost for the other half of the canvas was too high, so the artist improvised.

But now back to reality. Stretch goals - ugly little things - we all knew it would happen and we accepted it, and fans began lobbing even more money at them to meet said goals. This is again, an accepted practice, and so it can't be considered shady so much. Still it gets worse. Here's a link to the Kickstarter campaign page click and go to the "campaign" section to see the goals: Click me, please
Go ahead and read it.

Finished? Now did you notice those stretch goals? Just in case you didn't click (looking at you, you non-clicker), I'll list them all here. Just know that you should feel bad for putting all that extra work on me, and for making the honest clickers sit through it all over again.
•Old school skins for Toejam & Earl: $425,000
•Add the Hyperfunk Zone: $450,000
•More playable characters (only three more are listed): $500,000
•Hire guest composers: $550,000
•PS4 port: $600,000
•Xbox One port: $700,000
•Wii U port: $800,000

Picked your jaw up off of the floor yet? Do I even have to address how ludicrous these goals are? I have designed a full sprite sheet set for several characters before (enough to fill a game in fact) so I can understand how much work it is and how much trouble animating them is, and I've worked with 3D design and some drawing, but I'm sorry it just doesn't take $25,000 worth of work and wages to pay an artist to make a few new skins for characters and cover the time it took.
$50,000 more to make a PS4 port? The makers of Octodad: Deadliest Catch said that developing for PS4 was so similar to PC development that it took one programmer working part time just one week to port it from PC to PS4. So Humanature expects us to believe that it took $50,000 to pay their team of developers to port it to PS4? A whole team is much faster than a single programmer, and they (theoretically) are working full time, so it should be doable in half a week tops, right? Even if it took a week, why are they paying them $50,000 a week? I think we all work for the wrong companies, folks. Let's put in Humanature applications. Apparently when they said "Want a job? We pay good money!" they really meant it!

Next: you need another $100,000 to port to Xbox One? It runs Windows for crying out loud! So yet another super simple port being way overpriced, because you don't want the sales that you WILL get tons of on the system badly enough to do so without being paid ridiculous amounts of money to do so?

And Wii U needs another $100,000? Okay, now I understand optimization issues for PS4/Xbox One/PC games going to Wii U, but have you seen this game? No way does it push the Wii U's limits by any stretch. It should run fine on Vita and 3DS even.

For a better explanation of how much work it would take, let me say this: they're using Unity I'm told. If this is the case porting simply requires that a few lines of text be rewritten, that they tick a box in a drop down menu, and then click the build option. Presto, $100,000 worth of work, done.


Now they failed to reach the PS4 goal on Kickstarter so as soon as that campaign ended they started a campaign on a site called Backerkit. Yes, a second fundraiser for a game that was already fully funded for development and had met half of it's stretch goals. Why? Because they can, I suppose. And then they still didn't hit the PS4 goal, which means they were over $100,000 away from what they "needed" for an Xbox One port and $200,000 away from a Wii U port.



The Legendary Icing On The Legendary Cake


The legendary stretch goals


So yes, stretch goals fail to be met, so no ports. Sad thing, as console is where TJ&E belong and really feel at home.

But wait! Now they speak of "other versions" of the game so it sounds like they fully intend on making console ports after all. If such is the case, it appears that they decided the sales were incentive enough to port after all, even without all that extra backing.

Now I'm not saying they're thieves or anything, just pointing out that it sure sounds odd the way they set those stretch goals. Whether you think they're being crooked or not is your decision to make. I still hope they do port, and I plan to buy the PS4 version if it comes to us after all, and I still think it looks and sounds great, but I fully disapprove of their handling of it so far. Not that my approval matters.


So what are your thoughts? Is this underhanded or on the up and up?
Before we begin, I would like to note that this isn't a personal rant, rather a reflection of what many are voicing and feeling in general, myself included. This article is not intended to be taken as an allegation of any kind, rather to ask why the matter has been handled this way, and to point out that it wasn't necessary, but was legal and to some, right.
____________________



A Legend Is Born

 
Jammin'

Once upon a time a game called Toejam & Earl launched on the SEGA Genesis/Megadrive. It was a game no one ever would have expected, about two aliens from the planet Funkatron who crash landed on Earth (you should never let Earl drive). This game came in without any real attention but soon became what we call a "sleeper hit" and everyone was talking about it. In fact it was so popular that it's rumored that SEGA considered making TJ&E their mascots, though whether that's true or not I have no idea, but I would doubt it since SEGA didn't own the rights to Toejam & Earl, rather JVP did.


A Legend Gets A Sequel...Sort Of

 
A funky new view of Funkatron

Fast forward a few years. JVP pitches the idea to SEGA for a sequel to the huge success that was Toejam & Earl. SEGA in their infinite wisdom and ability to predict the game market that so obviously led them to huge things shortly thereafter (No laughs? Really? Fine.) told JVP that they could indeed put a Toejam & Earl 2 on the Genesis IF they met one small requirement: change the game completely, scrapping every idea they had for it and basically the only things they could leave unchanged were Toejam & Earl as characters.

Sadly JVP had little choice and so they did as SEGA insisted and made Toejam & Earl: Panic on Funkatron into a platformer. According to SEGA a game like the first one that was so hugely popular would never sell because logic. Instead they needed to make it a platformer because that's what every other big game coming out right then was, so people would buy it... Yes, you read that right: SEGA said something that was more of the same wouldn't sell, and instead what they needed to do was make it like the vast majority of other games at the time. More of the same won't sell, so instead make it more of the same, because logic. To be fair, platformers really were huge at the time, but then again so was the original, non-platformer game Toejam & Earl.

So fans got another TJ&E like we wanted, only many were like me and got the game without even looking at the back cover for game pictures, rather we had to have it because it was Toejam & Earl 2. Then when we got it home and put it in, we realized it wasn't like what we expected it to be.

Disappointment ensued.

However the game was a solid platformer and JVP at least managed to make it a very unique platformer, and one that stood out from the crowd. Great game, but not TJ&E, at least, not the way the majority of us wanted.


Another Attempt At Legendary Funklord Status


TJ&E in 3D = three dimensions of funk

Fast forward (again) to Toejam & Earl: Mission To Earth. The developers once again tried to go back to TJ&E's roots, but alas, the publishers did one of the things that publishers do best and demanded the game be changed. Once again, we would get what little remained of the original intentions of the developers, or in other words, a game that was half TJ&E half something else entirely, and fans were disappointed once more.


A Return To Legendary Greatness?


Oh, a sight for sore eyes, that art


Now the year is 2015. I mean the year we're discussing, not the year you're reading this. Focus.
So in 2015 Greg Johnson, owner of Humanature studios, and one of the two men behind the first Toejam & Earl (the J of JVP) announces on Kickstarter that his team wants to make the long overdue true successor to the first Toejam & Earl. They set the goal for $400,000 which, I am told, was hit overnight. Wow. See, didn't I tell you that people wanted a straight up sequel to Toejam & Earl? All these years and so-called-sequel letdowns later, and we're still willing to entrust you with $400,000 that easily Greg.

Trust.

Funny choice of words, that. You see this is where things get shady...

As any good kickstarter campaigner does, Humanature decided quickly that even though they asked for $400,000 to make the game what it should be, they really meant that they wanted, or excuse me, "needed" $550,000 to make the game the way they truly wanted to.

Now hold on a minute here. Let's just get this straight real quick: I understand the concept of stretch goals and that they are common practice, however I think they are terrible devices that openly showcase an artist's willingness to forsake their own artistic integrity in order to make money. How so? It's simple really: stretch goals say "We asked for X amount of money, and really we COULD make the game with that much, but we really want to add all of these other features into it and the amount we set as our base goal isn't enough to fund that." So in other words the developer just told you that they were willing to cut out considerable portions of what they truly had envisioned in order to produce half of the game and make money. That they would rather sell half a game and make money than settle on the all or nothing approach of "we need this much money to make it right, or we just won't make it. Our vision means too much to us to compromise it." That's a bit like us getting half of the Mona Lisa because the cost for the other half of the canvas was too high, so the artist improvised.

But now back to reality. Stretch goals - ugly little things - we all knew it would happen and we accepted it, and fans began lobbing even more money at them to meet said goals. This is again, an accepted practice, and so it can't be considered shady so much. Still it gets worse. Here's a link to the Kickstarter campaign page click and go to the "campaign" section to see the goals: Click me, please
Go ahead and read it.

Finished? Now did you notice those stretch goals? Just in case you didn't click (looking at you, you non-clicker), I'll list them all here. Just know that you should feel bad for putting all that extra work on me, and for making the honest clickers sit through it all over again.
•Old school skins for Toejam & Earl: $425,000
•Add the Hyperfunk Zone: $450,000
•More playable characters (only three more are listed): $500,000
•Hire guest composers: $550,000
•PS4 port: $600,000
•Xbox One port: $700,000
•Wii U port: $800,000

Picked your jaw up off of the floor yet? Do I even have to address how ludicrous these goals are? I have designed a full sprite sheet set for several characters before (enough to fill a game in fact) so I can understand how much work it is and how much trouble animating them is, and I've worked with 3D design and some drawing, but I'm sorry it just doesn't take $25,000 worth of work and wages to pay an artist to make a few new skins for characters and cover the time it took.
$50,000 more to make a PS4 port? The makers of Octodad: Deadliest Catch said that developing for PS4 was so similar to PC development that it took one programmer working part time just one week to port it from PC to PS4. So Humanature expects us to believe that it took $50,000 to pay their team of developers to port it to PS4? A whole team is much faster than a single programmer, and they (theoretically) are working full time, so it should be doable in half a week tops, right? Even if it took a week, why are they paying them $50,000 a week? I think we all work for the wrong companies, folks. Let's put in Humanature applications. Apparently when they said "Want a job? We pay good money!" they really meant it!

Next: you need another $100,000 to port to Xbox One? It runs Windows for crying out loud! So yet another super simple port being way overpriced, because you don't want the sales that you WILL get tons of on the system badly enough to do so without being paid ridiculous amounts of money to do so?

And Wii U needs another $100,000? Okay, now I understand optimization issues for PS4/Xbox One/PC games going to Wii U, but have you seen this game? No way does it push the Wii U's limits by any stretch. It should run fine on Vita and 3DS even.

For a better explanation of how much work it would take, let me say this: they're using Unity I'm told. If this is the case porting simply requires that a few lines of text be rewritten, that they tick a box in a drop down menu, and then click the build option. Presto, $100,000 worth of work, done.


Now they failed to reach the PS4 goal on Kickstarter so as soon as that campaign ended they started a campaign on a site called Backerkit. Yes, a second fundraiser for a game that was already fully funded for development and had met half of it's stretch goals. Why? Because they can, I suppose. And then they still didn't hit the PS4 goal, which means they were over $100,000 away from what they "needed" for an Xbox One port and $200,000 away from a Wii U port.



The Legendary Icing On The Legendary Cake


The legendary stretch goals


So yes, stretch goals fail to be met, so no ports. Sad thing, as console is where TJ&E belong and really feel at home.

But wait! Now they speak of "other versions" of the game so it sounds like they fully intend on making console ports after all. If such is the case, it appears that they decided the sales were incentive enough to port after all, even without all that extra backing.

Now I'm not saying they're thieves or anything, just pointing out that it sure sounds odd the way they set those stretch goals. Whether you think they're being crooked or not is your decision to make. I still hope they do port, and I plan to buy the PS4 version if it comes to us after all, and I still think it looks and sounds great, but I fully disapprove of their handling of it so far. Not that my approval matters.


So what are your thoughts? Is this underhanded or on the up and up?
Vizzed Elite
Eirinn


Affected by 'Laziness Syndrome'

Registered: 07-18-12
Last Post: 2058 days
Last Active: 2058 days

(edited by Eirinn on 04-26-16 06:12 AM)     Post Rating: 1   Liked By: Mynamescox44,

04-27-16 01:32 AM
endings is Offline
| ID: 1265921 | 5 Words

endings
Level: 58


POSTS: 707/829
POST EXP: 193341
LVL EXP: 1511744
CP: 19865.5
VIZ: 1245887

Likes: 0  Dislikes: 0
Eirinn : Talk about a gouge...
Eirinn : Talk about a gouge...
Trusted Member
A reviewer prone to flashbacks


Affected by 'Laziness Syndrome'

Registered: 04-30-13
Last Post: 24 days
Last Active: 17 days

04-28-16 03:55 PM
Mynamescox44 is Offline
| ID: 1266397 | 126 Words

Mynamescox44
Level: 95


POSTS: 556/2608
POST EXP: 337383
LVL EXP: 8594287
CP: 48499.4
VIZ: 571857

Likes: 1  Dislikes: 0
The stretch goals don't seem like an honest way to go. It's like their trying to bribe their contributors with "the more we get, the harder we'll try / give you back", which shouldn't be the case. It's one thing to say what you've got so far isn't enough, but it's another thing altogether to say if you meet certain amounts, you'll only deliver so much. The more of it I read, the more it felt like they were squeezing every penny out of people they could get. I hope I understood everything presented correctly.

All in all, I hope it happens. T + E never got the sequel they deserved. But seeing the methods behind the madness, I'm not sure how this will turn out...
The stretch goals don't seem like an honest way to go. It's like their trying to bribe their contributors with "the more we get, the harder we'll try / give you back", which shouldn't be the case. It's one thing to say what you've got so far isn't enough, but it's another thing altogether to say if you meet certain amounts, you'll only deliver so much. The more of it I read, the more it felt like they were squeezing every penny out of people they could get. I hope I understood everything presented correctly.

All in all, I hope it happens. T + E never got the sequel they deserved. But seeing the methods behind the madness, I'm not sure how this will turn out...
Trusted Member
Universe Breaker


Affected by 'Laziness Syndrome'

Registered: 11-28-12
Location: Ohio
Last Post: 1657 days
Last Active: 664 days

Post Rating: 1   Liked By: Eirinn,

04-28-16 08:41 PM
Eirinn is Offline
| ID: 1266533 | 53 Words

Eirinn
Level: 154


POSTS: 5576/7900
POST EXP: 1300417
LVL EXP: 46029287
CP: 69368.0
VIZ: 1836533

Likes: 0  Dislikes: 0
Mynamescox44 : Yeah, I'm worried since it's Humanature instead of JVP making it, and since only one of the original two are there for it. Plus I won't lie, the semi-modernization worries me as well. But for what it's worth, the screenshots look incredible.

And I never knew you were into the series!
Mynamescox44 : Yeah, I'm worried since it's Humanature instead of JVP making it, and since only one of the original two are there for it. Plus I won't lie, the semi-modernization worries me as well. But for what it's worth, the screenshots look incredible.

And I never knew you were into the series!
Vizzed Elite
Eirinn


Affected by 'Laziness Syndrome'

Registered: 07-18-12
Last Post: 2058 days
Last Active: 2058 days

Links

Adblocker detected!

Vizzed.com is very expensive to keep alive! The Ads pay for the servers.

Vizzed has 3 TB worth of games and 1 TB worth of music.  This site is free to use but the ads barely pay for the monthly server fees.  If too many more people use ad block, the site cannot survive.

We prioritize the community over the site profits.  This is why we avoid using annoying (but high paying) ads like most other sites which include popups, obnoxious sounds and animations, malware, and other forms of intrusiveness.  We'll do our part to never resort to these types of ads, please do your part by helping support this site by adding Vizzed.com to your ad blocking whitelist.

×