manicman66 : No, scientifically speaking, evolution cannot be proven as in order to prove something they have to be able to replicate it, and obviously they can't. Fact is, no one can prove how we came into existence.

However this thread was a question from the thread creator to believers asking them to tell him why they believed what they did, so for us to discuss evolution versus creation would be off topic and quickly drag the whole thread down as everyone would jump in. PM would be fine with me if you want.

manicman66 : Eirinn is definitely right.  Evolution hasn't been proven.  That is the reason it is still just a theory.  If it had been proven it would become scientific law but it has not.  On the other, hand there is an overwhelming amount of evidence supporting it.  But I don't think that just because evolution is true that does not mean there isn't a God.  The two do not directly correlate with each other.

manicman66 : What science cannot prove is how life arises from non-life. Or even if it can. Despite years of efforts. A simple bacterium is beyond our grasp. There is also 'absolutely no proof'' that the universe could somehow create itself from nothing. There are thousands of witnesses to miraculous events however. You can't waffle on your faith by the way. Pascal's wager won't save your soul.

undertakerfreak : Are you trying to say that when I was diagnosed with deadly illness I should have blamed God?

I think from some posts on this thread, there is an incorrect premise when it comes to the belief of God: Believing in God is for those who need something to have faith and hold on to. A true believer of God would have faith in God in GOOD TIMES and BAD. Believing in God IS NEVER ABOUT a deity who is there for you and make sure that you are flourishing. Those who lean on that as their belief do not actually believe in God and their belief is by a condition, a condition that no one really deserves due to sin. The reason to believe and have faith in God should be because it's true and that our human condition described in scripture is also true, and need God to save us.

It is also important to note that having faith in God is NOT blind. If someone is blindly believing there is a god just because the person wants to or because there is a possibility, then they don't really have faith. By definition, there has to be some confidence or support in order for someone to have faith in anything. Very similar to when you have faith in someone. You don't trust someone unless you see reasons of why you should trust them, and then depending on how trusting you are, you would need a certain amount of evidence to start actually trusting someone.

So, to say that people don't believe in unicorns is because there is no evidence or support that the unicorn (that we know and imagine right now) actually existed or leave trails of evidence that it happened. However, there are evidence and support of existence of animals that lead to the portrayal of unicorns we see today (The word "Unicorn" was used for a type of rhino back in the day). The reason why people believe in the Bible and believe in God is because there is historical, scientific, logical, and philosophical support for God. It is also because it is, I believe, the most consistent and correct view of how people's relationship with God and each other, and how everyone is in a sinful state and need a Savior. Finally, like many people already stated here, God's work is evident all around, actively working miracles (big or small). Like any evidence, these support will never be enough for a person to become a believer of God until the person has some trust in the evidence and take that step of faith believing in the evidence and God.

There is such a thing as greater proof than anything that can be seen.  Eyes may fail us, but if God exists and is omnipotent, omniscient, and all-loving, would He fail us?  No.  Therefore, there must be a way to prove He exists.  However, I do not believe science can prove Him.  It can support and sustain true proof, but it cannot be the proof in and of itself.  I believe that the only way to have a secure belief God exists is to ask Him yourself whether He exists in the name of His Son, Jesus Christ.  If you ask without doubting/being skeptical, God will give you an answer through his Holy Spirit.

manicman66 :  
Eirinn :
mrturtlenoob :

Just a side comment, but it is really one of my pet peeves...Science doesn't "prove" things. It is used to discover support for models and continually self-corrects themselves. Saying that something "proves" something means that it ends up being true no matter what, which logic is the only field that does the proving.

play4fun : Completely agree.  I guess it was a poor choice of words when I said that a scientific law is something that is proven.  On a different note, mathematics is also another field that does proving.  Hence mathematical proofs.  Just an fyi.

A mathematical proof is an argument which convinces other people that something is true. does that really prove anything?

Ferdinand : I'm saying maybe, if there is a God, he just doesn't give a damn. He created everything, and left us humans to do as we please with out free will. And if he does exist and intercede with us humans, he's at the very least cruel to allow awful people to live and good people to die.

Celestial Knight : There's a difference between something like unicorns, which people are supposed to be able to see, vs. a power that is all-encompassing and too great for people to visually understand.  The ideology behind most religions is that the original creator is too much for us to understand outside of experience.

It's like gravity.  We see the result of it but we can't actually see the attraction between bodies of mass.  Or something like that.

Either way, you're asking a question and I don't think you're really trying to understand the other side of view.  It seems like you're just goading to feel better about yourself.  At this point, we may as well be discussing Auburn and Alabama football, or hot dogs vs. hamburgers, since neither the religious crowd nor the atheists are going to budge.

Instead of asking the question of others with no intention of learning, why not ask yourself, "Can I accept the fact that there are maybe a billion people out there who believe in this?  What is the draw?  Why does it touch so many people with the absence of scientific proof?"

Try asking those questions of yourself.  And to add to your opinion at the bottom: People use religion to meet their own ends.

Most, if not all religions, generally say, "Hey, let's all be nice to each other and help those who need it."  The original message is great, the execution (hehe) is more Animal Farm-y, for sure.

Ghostbear1111 : why is everyone reading so far into the unicorn metapor, it was a joke an attempt to add a little satire into the thread and really to just attract people to the thread its self.Also I don't like football nor care to discuss trivial subjects like hamburgers vs hotdogs and other such non-sense. Also as for your comment "it seems like your just groading to feel better about myself" please explain what you mean by that. And I understand the views that others are trying to get at , I just wanted to grasp why they choose to believe in the faith they follow and so far I like the answers I'm getting .

Celestial Knight : You said, 'The Bible is contradictory in itself" and something about you seeing it as just some tall tales.  That means no matter what a person says, you aren't going to take them seriously.  You're cutting them short and you're not giving them a fair chance at being understood.

"No matter what anyone says, It's all lies," is what you're telling us, even if you didn't use those words.  That's not going to encourage anyone to really have a conversation.

And do you know the etymology of 'sarcasm'?  It comes from the idea of stripping flesh off a limb or body.  It is meant to be cutting and aggressive and showing disdain for something.  So your unicorn joke automatically puts everyone who believes in religion on the defensive.  Again, you're saying, "Believing in this garbage is as smart as pounding sand with a hammer."

I'm not going to continue the debate because no one will get anywhere.  That's what happens when someone shows up and challenges a belief system.  And, yes, of course you don't care for trivial conversation, and I knew out the gate you don't care for athletics, except probably wrestling.  Ultimately, none of it matters.  Life is trivial.

Ghostbear1111 : When I said The bible itself is contradictory and so on I clearly stated this is just my opinion on the matter and I wanted to hear others opinions/views, and you can't quote an individual on what they didn't say, and your making baseless claims about me and it's just sad and has nothing to do with the thread but to answer your statement no I don't care for wrestling either but I actually played and did well in basketball in high school. But I took the time to respond to certain individuals in this thread via profile comments due to the fact I want to give everyone a chance to express there opinion and let there opinion be heard and to let others get into the conversation on why they believe in the faith they follow and certain people (Eirinn) got me interested in the faith of Christianity so I contacted him further but for you on the other hand this is my last reply to you for I have nothing further to say to you other than you clearly didn't read all of the posts in this thread.

undertakerfreak : First off "He created everything, and left us humans to do as we please with out free will" doesn't even make sense. Do you not have free will? Secondly, you just showed how little you actually understand about Christianity and it's teachings with your suffering comment.

Ferdinand : It's not a straw man though. A straw man is intentionally misrepresenting someone's position and he didn't misrepresent anything.

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NameEntry : If anyone truly thinks that believing unicorns exist is the same as belief in a higher power then I pity them.

Ferdinand : That has nothing to do with what I posted and what the OP posted. Your feelings towards him or anyone else has nothing to do with the fact that he didn't straw man you and you're using it completely wrong.

You're actually straw manning him since you're misrepresenting his position. If you're going to participate in the debate and logic portion of this board, please adhere to logic and debate.

I just want to say that if you wish to believe unicorns exist, then they do.  We are all just test tube children genetically created by aliens.  There is no heaven or hell, no god or devil.  Though I do believe in a creator of sorts, I wont call it god

NameEntry : Are you just arguing for the sake of arguing? A straw man is a common form of argument and is an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument which was not advanced by that opponent. - wikipedia. Did anyone compare unicorns to God besides the OP?