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Supreme Court rules for Gay Marriage

 

07-03-15 11:45 AM
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janus : I suppose religion isn't really as big of a part of most people's lives here in Sweden so I don't really have to see it the same way most people in the US do.

But yes I agree I think the cherry picking of the religions is wrong and I don't agree with the religions themselves, I'm a strong advocate of being critical of religion and looking closely at the impact they have on society but I can't justify forcing them to wed people that goes against their beliefs if they're a private establishment.

Still think it's wrong though considering that religious establishments both christian and non christian are tax exempt considering that but that's also going off topic.

janus : I suppose religion isn't really as big of a part of most people's lives here in Sweden so I don't really have to see it the same way most people in the US do.

But yes I agree I think the cherry picking of the religions is wrong and I don't agree with the religions themselves, I'm a strong advocate of being critical of religion and looking closely at the impact they have on society but I can't justify forcing them to wed people that goes against their beliefs if they're a private establishment.

Still think it's wrong though considering that religious establishments both christian and non christian are tax exempt considering that but that's also going off topic.

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07-07-15 01:06 PM
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Zlinqx : I don't know about Sweden, but the rest of Europe probably still remember religious wars of the Renaissance, which may explain why it seems to be so distant from people in general. Nothing of the sort happened in modern US history so people hold on to it, with everything that comes with it, both good (solidarity) and bad (discrimination)
Zlinqx : I don't know about Sweden, but the rest of Europe probably still remember religious wars of the Renaissance, which may explain why it seems to be so distant from people in general. Nothing of the sort happened in modern US history so people hold on to it, with everything that comes with it, both good (solidarity) and bad (discrimination)
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07-12-15 09:05 PM
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Since when did the Supreme Court gain the ability to make laws? That is not their branch. That is the only thing about this that pisses me off. I support gay marriage, but the legislative branch is the one that makes the laws, not the judicial branch.

There is no reason gays shouldn't have the same rights that straight people have, so ultimately the outcome of this is good in my opinion. However we all know they are inevitably going to start forcing churches to marry gay couples, and that is NOT ok.
Since when did the Supreme Court gain the ability to make laws? That is not their branch. That is the only thing about this that pisses me off. I support gay marriage, but the legislative branch is the one that makes the laws, not the judicial branch.

There is no reason gays shouldn't have the same rights that straight people have, so ultimately the outcome of this is good in my opinion. However we all know they are inevitably going to start forcing churches to marry gay couples, and that is NOT ok.
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07-14-15 11:13 PM
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About freaking time! But I think I'm going to stay here in Canada for the time being
About freaking time! But I think I'm going to stay here in Canada for the time being
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tgags123 : The supreme court did its job. A case was brought before it and it issued a ruling. As it has in thousands of previous cases. They didn't pass any laws. That isn't what they do. Nobody is forcing churches to marry same-sex couples either. That's paranoia. 
tgags123 : The supreme court did its job. A case was brought before it and it issued a ruling. As it has in thousands of previous cases. They didn't pass any laws. That isn't what they do. Nobody is forcing churches to marry same-sex couples either. That's paranoia. 
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07-15-15 01:34 PM
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mrfe : If playing the piano is his business and earns him his living, I would say that playing for a gay wedding is NOT supporting anything, it's just doing a job that's been paid for. Denying a job because of the couple to be married is gay is like denying a black person a service because they're black.
mrfe : If playing the piano is his business and earns him his living, I would say that playing for a gay wedding is NOT supporting anything, it's just doing a job that's been paid for. Denying a job because of the couple to be married is gay is like denying a black person a service because they're black.
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08-29-15 10:42 PM
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Finally I found a gay marriage thread. Let me put it like this. Idiots all across America say "OMG LIEK GAYS ARE AGINST GAWD!!1one!" But riddle me this: If god doesn't like gays....Then why did he make them? I thought god made everything. And that would include gays I would think. And lets say anyone can be gay. Like you wake up and decide to be gay (Which I know is not how being gay works, but bear with me on this) So basically, lets say you have a choice on being a gay. Then why did god make this choice? He made everything. EVERYTHING. I myself am not gay, but I respect gays and I am a proud supporter of gay marriage.
Finally I found a gay marriage thread. Let me put it like this. Idiots all across America say "OMG LIEK GAYS ARE AGINST GAWD!!1one!" But riddle me this: If god doesn't like gays....Then why did he make them? I thought god made everything. And that would include gays I would think. And lets say anyone can be gay. Like you wake up and decide to be gay (Which I know is not how being gay works, but bear with me on this) So basically, lets say you have a choice on being a gay. Then why did god make this choice? He made everything. EVERYTHING. I myself am not gay, but I respect gays and I am a proud supporter of gay marriage.
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08-30-15 02:07 PM
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This is just my view on gay marriage. I think it is wrong. Call me what you will,but it is between a man and a woman. Now if 2 guys,or 2 girls,or 2 transgenders want to play with each other,go ahead. I mean marriage exists for procreation and for social norms. It is a little tough to do that when you have 2 of the same thing,right? That is like having 2 packets of Kool Aid and no water to mix it.

Marriage supposedly is one of the last bastions of any sense of normalcy. It is supposed to be sacred. I know a lot of marriages are out of convenience,out of benefit,out of forced obligation,out of gain or out of being drunk and stupid in Vegas. Maybe I am showing my age,but I disagree that this is a good thing. All this will do is spurn more confusion,more loopholes,more ways that the LGBT community will use to force us to their agenda.

Tolerance is all well and good,but there is something to be said for staying with tradition and the way that (forgive me for saying this) it should be. It is Adam and Eve,not Adam and Steve. Maybe I am just old,maybe I think that some things should be left alone,maybe I think that some things should be as intended. I have no problem with gays or lesbians,who they want to bang is their own business,but do not force us to conform to that way of thinking. I can just see textbooks of the future now. Some kids may have a mother and a father,some may have two mothers or two fathers,some may have two transgenders,some may have a combination of both. Did anyone think of future generations? Did anyone think how this will make them feel? Did anyone think how this will contribute to confusion among future generations?
This is just my view on gay marriage. I think it is wrong. Call me what you will,but it is between a man and a woman. Now if 2 guys,or 2 girls,or 2 transgenders want to play with each other,go ahead. I mean marriage exists for procreation and for social norms. It is a little tough to do that when you have 2 of the same thing,right? That is like having 2 packets of Kool Aid and no water to mix it.

Marriage supposedly is one of the last bastions of any sense of normalcy. It is supposed to be sacred. I know a lot of marriages are out of convenience,out of benefit,out of forced obligation,out of gain or out of being drunk and stupid in Vegas. Maybe I am showing my age,but I disagree that this is a good thing. All this will do is spurn more confusion,more loopholes,more ways that the LGBT community will use to force us to their agenda.

Tolerance is all well and good,but there is something to be said for staying with tradition and the way that (forgive me for saying this) it should be. It is Adam and Eve,not Adam and Steve. Maybe I am just old,maybe I think that some things should be left alone,maybe I think that some things should be as intended. I have no problem with gays or lesbians,who they want to bang is their own business,but do not force us to conform to that way of thinking. I can just see textbooks of the future now. Some kids may have a mother and a father,some may have two mothers or two fathers,some may have two transgenders,some may have a combination of both. Did anyone think of future generations? Did anyone think how this will make them feel? Did anyone think how this will contribute to confusion among future generations?
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Oldschool777 : I'm almost as old as you are and i don't think anything like you so I know it's not your age, but your conservatism and religion. Gays and lesbians have as much of a right to be happy as the rest of us.

You post that you have nothing against them but if you want to deny them marriage it makes me assume you have something against them and you won't acknowledge it and/or you have a troubled or failed marriage and you don't want to see others have a happy marriage.
Oldschool777 : I'm almost as old as you are and i don't think anything like you so I know it's not your age, but your conservatism and religion. Gays and lesbians have as much of a right to be happy as the rest of us.

You post that you have nothing against them but if you want to deny them marriage it makes me assume you have something against them and you won't acknowledge it and/or you have a troubled or failed marriage and you don't want to see others have a happy marriage.
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10-11-15 03:05 PM
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I do not have a religion. I just think some things should be left alone. Now,if gays,lesbians,trannys want to play with each other,that is fine. They have a right to happiness,but marriage is between a man and a woman. This is just more ammo for the LGBT community to chip away at what little structure is left. I mean,they could do what Gene Simmons and his wife did for over 20 years,just be together. They do not need a piece of paper and a ring for that.

They are not thinking further down the line,in all honesty. What if they want kids? What if they want to carry on their family name? Sure,they could adopt a kid,but they will just influence the kid with their propaganda. And that is not a true way to carry on the line. That is just a way,not the way it was intended. I mean,let us look at it from a wider point. If all of these "special interest" groups get their way and influence people,how will new generations be born? How will future generations be taught? They will have to make all kinds of allowances and exceptions and exemptions and that takes time and money,both of which are in short supply in many cases.

It is like when you put something together. Can you put something together or hold something together with all bolts? Or all nuts? No. You need both to hold and build things.
I do not have a religion. I just think some things should be left alone. Now,if gays,lesbians,trannys want to play with each other,that is fine. They have a right to happiness,but marriage is between a man and a woman. This is just more ammo for the LGBT community to chip away at what little structure is left. I mean,they could do what Gene Simmons and his wife did for over 20 years,just be together. They do not need a piece of paper and a ring for that.

They are not thinking further down the line,in all honesty. What if they want kids? What if they want to carry on their family name? Sure,they could adopt a kid,but they will just influence the kid with their propaganda. And that is not a true way to carry on the line. That is just a way,not the way it was intended. I mean,let us look at it from a wider point. If all of these "special interest" groups get their way and influence people,how will new generations be born? How will future generations be taught? They will have to make all kinds of allowances and exceptions and exemptions and that takes time and money,both of which are in short supply in many cases.

It is like when you put something together. Can you put something together or hold something together with all bolts? Or all nuts? No. You need both to hold and build things.
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Oldschool777 : I get what you're saying except for one major aspect of your argument. To say you don't have a religion and to say marriage is 'sacred' sounds kind of conflicting. What, then, makes it sacred? Maybe the LGBT community doesn't need a piece of paper to tell them they are in bound to each other, but to my understanding the big part of the issue was having the legal rights of a joint couple. Denying them those rights is kind of like denying part of their happiness as a couple. And kids will be brought up as they always have, albeit with new definitions in their lives (trans, gay, etc). All parents have the ability to influence their kids with their own stigmas and beliefs, how is this any different? Nature vs Nurture isn't exactly the point of this thread, but all parents share the responsibility of trying to raise their children to form their own opinions, so I'm not quite sure of the 'new' problem that would be introduced.

NameEntry : I understand you have a polar opinion compared to Oldschool, but there's no need to attack the standing of his marriage. It's not exactly an argument and will not even remotely help him understand your opinion. 
Oldschool777 : I get what you're saying except for one major aspect of your argument. To say you don't have a religion and to say marriage is 'sacred' sounds kind of conflicting. What, then, makes it sacred? Maybe the LGBT community doesn't need a piece of paper to tell them they are in bound to each other, but to my understanding the big part of the issue was having the legal rights of a joint couple. Denying them those rights is kind of like denying part of their happiness as a couple. And kids will be brought up as they always have, albeit with new definitions in their lives (trans, gay, etc). All parents have the ability to influence their kids with their own stigmas and beliefs, how is this any different? Nature vs Nurture isn't exactly the point of this thread, but all parents share the responsibility of trying to raise their children to form their own opinions, so I'm not quite sure of the 'new' problem that would be introduced.

NameEntry : I understand you have a polar opinion compared to Oldschool, but there's no need to attack the standing of his marriage. It's not exactly an argument and will not even remotely help him understand your opinion. 
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10-11-15 04:09 PM
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Marriage has always been with a man and a woman since the beginning of time. It is just one of those things that has always been true. They want the loophole because they choose a different course. They can encourage kids to find their own path but when they see the alternate lifestyle practiced daily in their home,more than likely they will see that as their course.
Marriage has always been with a man and a woman since the beginning of time. It is just one of those things that has always been true. They want the loophole because they choose a different course. They can encourage kids to find their own path but when they see the alternate lifestyle practiced daily in their home,more than likely they will see that as their course.
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Oldschool777 : Don't be silly. The most common form of marriage throughout history has been polygamous.
Oldschool777 : Don't be silly. The most common form of marriage throughout history has been polygamous.
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10-11-15 05:24 PM
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That is maybe the more natural one at the beginning of time. One man and numerous wives to ensure the production of kids.
That is maybe the more natural one at the beginning of time. One man and numerous wives to ensure the production of kids.
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I think both sides are correct in their own unique way.

Traditional
The one side can say that marriage is between a man and a woman, and has been so for as long as we can remember. Which isn't false, marriage has been like that for a long time. Two people of the same gender obviously can't have a child, which is the main reason all people, animals, everything lives. You have basically two missions when you're born: Stay alive and reproduce. It's not rocket science to figure out that this is the way it is - being only every single living organism does it. I mean, even plants do this in their own way if we're getting crazy on this, but I digress.

We also have to look at what was forced into our heads when younger. If you're younger than say, 25, you have it a little different because of the media we grew up with. People who have been alive longer grew up in a time where it was extremely frowned upon, if not illegal, to have any type of gay relationship. It was socially unacceptable, and you know what you grew up to know. It's not their fault that society totally changed their minds later on in their life, really it's sad. They went from being socially accepted for hating the idea of anything gay, now they're socially disowned for disbelieving in anything gay. When you make a huge flip flop like this, it's going to obviously cause controversy.

New School
The other side can say that marriage is defined by love, not by gender. This, in my opinion, is a very valid point. The whole point of marriage should be to find someone you can truly love enough to settle down with. The traditional folk will say they can't have kids, and they're right, but they can still adopt. Looking at this from a population stand point - this isn't actually horrible. We have a lot of foster kids who can really benifit from getting a parent. I highly doubt the foster child will really care that their parents are gay. I know that people say you need both a mom and a dad to raise a child, but judging by the fact that these kids have no one as is - I think they'll happily take two moms or two dads.

A common thing I also read, see, and hear on this subject is "If they're raised by gay parents - they'll become gay themselves!" Well, I mean anything is possible, but at the same time... Straight parents are clearly capable of raising gay children - so why can't gay parents raise straight children? It's hard to really make that thought stick when it just doesn't make sense no matter how you look at it.

Another common thing I read is, "Their kids will be picked on in school!" I believe this is very true. Yet, no matter what your home situation is, you're going to be picked on in school no matter what. This is up to the parents to teach the kid what's going to happen and how to handle it - just like a straight parenting couple would do. Plus, our youth is growing up in a different time, it's become more socially acceptable, and school rules are way over the top about this stuff. I think they'll make it just fine.

My Opinion
I rest in the middle of both sides. I personally will never consider gay marriage for myself, because that's just not what I am. I think that traditional marriage is right in the sense that, well yeah, you need to have kids. This is countered with the ability to adopt though, so my point has become moot there. I think that gay couples should be allowed to marry, because marriage should be about love not tradition. Apparently, us straight folks aren't really doing too well with tradition anyways, if that 52% divorce rate is any indicator.
I think both sides are correct in their own unique way.

Traditional
The one side can say that marriage is between a man and a woman, and has been so for as long as we can remember. Which isn't false, marriage has been like that for a long time. Two people of the same gender obviously can't have a child, which is the main reason all people, animals, everything lives. You have basically two missions when you're born: Stay alive and reproduce. It's not rocket science to figure out that this is the way it is - being only every single living organism does it. I mean, even plants do this in their own way if we're getting crazy on this, but I digress.

We also have to look at what was forced into our heads when younger. If you're younger than say, 25, you have it a little different because of the media we grew up with. People who have been alive longer grew up in a time where it was extremely frowned upon, if not illegal, to have any type of gay relationship. It was socially unacceptable, and you know what you grew up to know. It's not their fault that society totally changed their minds later on in their life, really it's sad. They went from being socially accepted for hating the idea of anything gay, now they're socially disowned for disbelieving in anything gay. When you make a huge flip flop like this, it's going to obviously cause controversy.

New School
The other side can say that marriage is defined by love, not by gender. This, in my opinion, is a very valid point. The whole point of marriage should be to find someone you can truly love enough to settle down with. The traditional folk will say they can't have kids, and they're right, but they can still adopt. Looking at this from a population stand point - this isn't actually horrible. We have a lot of foster kids who can really benifit from getting a parent. I highly doubt the foster child will really care that their parents are gay. I know that people say you need both a mom and a dad to raise a child, but judging by the fact that these kids have no one as is - I think they'll happily take two moms or two dads.

A common thing I also read, see, and hear on this subject is "If they're raised by gay parents - they'll become gay themselves!" Well, I mean anything is possible, but at the same time... Straight parents are clearly capable of raising gay children - so why can't gay parents raise straight children? It's hard to really make that thought stick when it just doesn't make sense no matter how you look at it.

Another common thing I read is, "Their kids will be picked on in school!" I believe this is very true. Yet, no matter what your home situation is, you're going to be picked on in school no matter what. This is up to the parents to teach the kid what's going to happen and how to handle it - just like a straight parenting couple would do. Plus, our youth is growing up in a different time, it's become more socially acceptable, and school rules are way over the top about this stuff. I think they'll make it just fine.

My Opinion
I rest in the middle of both sides. I personally will never consider gay marriage for myself, because that's just not what I am. I think that traditional marriage is right in the sense that, well yeah, you need to have kids. This is countered with the ability to adopt though, so my point has become moot there. I think that gay couples should be allowed to marry, because marriage should be about love not tradition. Apparently, us straight folks aren't really doing too well with tradition anyways, if that 52% divorce rate is any indicator.
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Skilledtree : Great post. I would just like to add that procreation isn't really a crucial point anymore, as we near discussion of over-population. But yes, I agree marriage is based on love and should be defined legally, which is want everyone wants. Also, not to put a dent in the traditional view point, but homosexual couples weren't exactly frowned upon in say ancient Greece. It hasn't always been one way or the other in any given culture, I don't think. Even other animals exhibit homosexuality. 
Skilledtree : Great post. I would just like to add that procreation isn't really a crucial point anymore, as we near discussion of over-population. But yes, I agree marriage is based on love and should be defined legally, which is want everyone wants. Also, not to put a dent in the traditional view point, but homosexual couples weren't exactly frowned upon in say ancient Greece. It hasn't always been one way or the other in any given culture, I don't think. Even other animals exhibit homosexuality. 
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10-11-15 06:50 PM
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danielbelitch :

Ah, you're correct about that. I was mainly referring to about the last ~150 or so years as an example since that's about the time that our society would have been able to have any reflection on current society. I apologize for not clarifying that!

Yeah, I totally agree about the inevitable overpopulation. I believe I said that it was good from a population standpoint (before I talked about foster children), which I failed to expand upon as to not make it look like I'm fluffing word counts for TdV.
danielbelitch :

Ah, you're correct about that. I was mainly referring to about the last ~150 or so years as an example since that's about the time that our society would have been able to have any reflection on current society. I apologize for not clarifying that!

Yeah, I totally agree about the inevitable overpopulation. I believe I said that it was good from a population standpoint (before I talked about foster children), which I failed to expand upon as to not make it look like I'm fluffing word counts for TdV.
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Oldschool777 : Which just goes to show how irrelevant "traditional marriage" is.
Oldschool777 : Which just goes to show how irrelevant "traditional marriage" is.
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I don't think it's a first amendment issue. Those for gay marriage rights WANT to make it one, but plenty of people oppose gay marriage for reasons OTHER than religion. Sorry. It's true. Plenty of people just hate gays. Probably always will. And there are other reasons. It should be left to individual states to decide. Like so many other places where the federal government jokers try to overstep their bounds. People are so quick to give up their rights in the short term without thinking of the long term consequences. It opens a whole new gateway for abuses of power. For the record, I think gays should have a right to enjoy any benefits of partnership afforded to anyone else. They also have the right to suffer just like everyone else for choices they make. Enough excuses. Get back to work. lol. Seriously my younger ex-brother-in-law spends so much more time thinking up excuses for being lazy I think it tires him out.
I don't think it's a first amendment issue. Those for gay marriage rights WANT to make it one, but plenty of people oppose gay marriage for reasons OTHER than religion. Sorry. It's true. Plenty of people just hate gays. Probably always will. And there are other reasons. It should be left to individual states to decide. Like so many other places where the federal government jokers try to overstep their bounds. People are so quick to give up their rights in the short term without thinking of the long term consequences. It opens a whole new gateway for abuses of power. For the record, I think gays should have a right to enjoy any benefits of partnership afforded to anyone else. They also have the right to suffer just like everyone else for choices they make. Enough excuses. Get back to work. lol. Seriously my younger ex-brother-in-law spends so much more time thinking up excuses for being lazy I think it tires him out.
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Actually it's been found that many people who go after gays are in fact closeted themselves so I would assume that it would be the same for this person. If a person doesn't want others to get maarried then there's an underlying issue.

So I assume he's a gay-basher, he posts he doesn't mind them but he wants to deny them marriage, and he's lashing out to cover his homosexuality or he has a failed or failing marriage and he doesn't want to see others happy.

Why would anyone care that gays can get married? How does that affect them in any way? If a person decides it does something to them, then they need to mind their own business and don't worry about other's marriages.

If anything it brings in more revenue at the state level since marriage licenses have to be purchased and it will reduce the divorce rate since more couple will be getting married.

There's literally no downside to this unless you're super conservative and super religious.
Actually it's been found that many people who go after gays are in fact closeted themselves so I would assume that it would be the same for this person. If a person doesn't want others to get maarried then there's an underlying issue.

So I assume he's a gay-basher, he posts he doesn't mind them but he wants to deny them marriage, and he's lashing out to cover his homosexuality or he has a failed or failing marriage and he doesn't want to see others happy.

Why would anyone care that gays can get married? How does that affect them in any way? If a person decides it does something to them, then they need to mind their own business and don't worry about other's marriages.

If anything it brings in more revenue at the state level since marriage licenses have to be purchased and it will reduce the divorce rate since more couple will be getting married.

There's literally no downside to this unless you're super conservative and super religious.
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