Some churches make the mistake with good intention of saying "God Loves You Just the Way you Are" with the hope that people would come to Christ knowing that they are loved. The problem is that this phrase can be interpreted and applied differently to something that is far from the truth: "If God loves me just the way I am, God doesn't expect me to be in a certain way. I don't have to change." 

Then when people approach topics like whether being a Christian gives a ticket to sin freely, or if certain things are considered sins, like from dishonoring parents to homosexuality to greedy covet, they throw out the same type of reasoning that "because of God's love, I'm fine where I'm at." And that is not what we see from scripture.

We see that being a Christian is to expect a drastic change in the person towards desiring good. scriptures has many mentions of becoming "a new creature" (2 Corinthians 5:17), that people who are Christians "were" disobedient and "were" dead in sin and "were" following the ways of the world. (Ephesians 2:1). God has expectations of how His people are to act, and it is not to continue living in sin, or wanting sin, "Be holy, because I am holy." (1 Peter 1:16). God even promises that through Him, He will give "a new heart," "a new spirit," and "remove the heart of stone from your flesh" (Ezekiel 36:26).

So if someone is going to argue that they can continue sinning, or that a certain act is fine, "God loves me for who I am" is not a valid nor biblical support for it. It's false theology.

One thing about the phrase is true though: No matter how sinful you are, no matter how far apart you are from God, no matter how much you have moments of hating God, God still opens His arms to you and desires you to return back to Him, indiscriminately. Anyone can experience His love and not be reject when they seek Him. But part of seeking Him is to drop away from sin, to repent and turn away from sin. To let God change you from "who you were."

play4fun : You are so right! Just because GOD loves us in our sin does not mean that we are supposed to stay in it!

I honestly swear it's the things like this that make me wonder why I have not converted to Christianity yet since it aligns with my ideology nearly perfectly xD. I do not believe that people are born sinful, but I simply adore and wholeheartedly agree with the popular phrase, "hate the sin, not the sinner" (although I like to avoid "hate" altogether, making it "love the sinner, not the sin" or something ), and the whole "God will give you another chance" thing and His forgiveness and generosity and will for people to be good are probably the only reasons I am not an atheist by now . It is too wonderful of a belief (and, in my opinion, fact) to simply "let go".

NintendoFanKimmy :

Why avoid the word hate altogether? It's a normal human emotion that's fine to use, only briefly though. God hate's sin. Lot's of it, however, in Psalms we are told to "not let the sun set upon thy anger."

I find it hard to hold a grudge.

But I hate lot's of stuff. I just don't hold onto it, or think about it all the time. I let go.


* * * * * *

To address the topic on hand, I agree, however, we should remember where sin is defined, and that it was first and foremost in the Old Testament. This is where God's moral standard has come from, and this is the from where we are supposed to learn right from wrong.

NintendoFanKimmy : "Love the sinner, not the sin" is indeed the same thing as "hate the sin, not the sinner, so go ahead and say that.

I'm so glad this thread was made. I've thought about this quite a bit before, and it's this false theology that made me wonder, "Oh, I don't have to follow Him? Then why bother?"

I've learned much, much more about Christianity and the Bible since then, and now I know why I should. Now I want to, but I haven't done well at it yet because I haven't tried that hard. That'll definitely change sometime very soon though because no lifestyle without God being completely involved that I've tried has worked for me. Thank goodness for that. It made me realize how much I need God in my life.

God bless you for making this thread!

I like this thread too. I think that is one of the major things that give Christianity a bad image. When there are those who are horrible people who don't own up to their detestable actions because they think they are saved because "they are Christian". Just identifying yourself with a religion does not mean you are automatically saved under the eyes of that religion. There are rules and criteria that must be followed if you want to claim Salvation. Being a greedy person who's concern is furthering your own wealth at the expense of those less fortunate *coughprettymucheverypoliticiancough*. Someone who openly dehumanizes and torments others for their sins because they have strong prejudice towards particular sins (Everyone is a sinner, so leave the judgement to the only one that should matter in that decision). I think you get my point. Those who spread hatred and do detestable things to fellow people are not saved because God loves you for who you are. Even if you truly believe someone is fallowing the wrong path, I don't recall anywhere in Jesus' theachings that it was man's duty to mistreat and condemn fellow sinners over Gods.

While I agree with what you're getting at (we must change when we come to God), I must politely disagree.

I think the idea here is that love and hate are opposites, but they aren't. This misunderstanding stems from the misunderstanding of the word "love". Love does not mean an intense liking, at least it didn't use to. Rather true love is a devotion and concern for their well being.. To quote an old song "Jesus didn't die for you because it was fun, He hung there for love because it had to be done. And in spite of the anguish, His word was fulfilled, because love is not a feeling, it's an act of your will". Simply put, when we were the very reason He was suffering the crucifixion, He surely didn't feel a lot of "like" or other happy things, but His love was still there. Love is not a kiss, but the act of selflessness to benefit someone else. Therefore the opposite of love is selfishness.

Indeed, given this understanding of the word love, we can see that it's entirely possible to love someone yet hate them at the same time. No contradiction when love is understood properly. It's for this very reason that we find God describing how he planned to destroy Israel for their sins (even said He hated them in Hosea), all while saying "[but] how can I cast thee off?". He hated and loved at the same time. And in the gospels, Jesus proclaimed the destruction of Israel and spoke strongly against them in their hypocrisy, then turned around and weeped over them.

But I suppose the best point that could be made is that Paul said "But God commendeth His love toward us in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." and John said "We love Him because He first loved us". So here we see that God loved us while we were in sin. However, love alone does NOT excuse us. His love is what draws us to Him in the first place (He loves us and wants us to be saved, so He draws us to Him), and is the very reason He cares and accepts us, and begins transforming us.


So basically I agree with what you said, I simply disagree with the choice of words.

Sorry dude, but I'm sure you commit at least twenty sins a day. Ten if you are one of those veritable angels that never do anything wrong.

But since we are all sinners...

We can always try to draw the line, since it is very tempting, to those sins we are not so much ourselves interested of and blame those who are. Yet, the fact that we all sin and are sinners and in our own pride and vanity are if not literally but in our minds, willing to throw the first stone, makes us all guilty in the eyes of God. I believe we are all more or less doomed and more we try in vain to let our egos try to be more we are very well not, we just embrace ourselves over here. We try to make ourselves feel good, feel better and in the eyes of God.

It is not that we would accept sin. We just try to bicker among us which sin is bigger. Lust maybe sin, but love maybe not. But love might begin with lust. It is something primordial. And if that is a sin, it is thus through that... we are born from sin.

I have tried to say this before but nobody seems to get it really. I am not trying to say here that I live a good life myself, or that I am a righteous man. I have done things I think are wrong, some things I regret, some not. And I could not say to God himself I would regret. And if I could, some things I would do all over again for all eternity if I could. And this he knows.

But my point is that even the most righteous man wallows in his own filth before God and he is just as pitiful on the judgement day. And your pride, vanity and hatred doesn't either impress me or anger that day. My fate will be just as sad.

Edit:

Oh and to answer the original question. Of course He don't.

Brigand : Nobody is without sin, true:
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+3:12

And nobody can live a righteous life without the help of the Holy Spirit, no matter how much they think so, nor how many good deeds they do.

"I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing." (John 15:5)

tRIUNE :

Yes! Exactly.

God loves us unless we done some thing very wrong.

tan4 : Not true; God loves us unconditionally.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+3%3A16

God hates sin because it separates you from him. Even those who have committed those so-called very wrong things, He is willing to forgive.

I agree with this! God wants us to come closer to him, but if we, as sinners, stay the same, he doesn't like that... And, if I may go on what Eirinn said, the older definition of love isn't like, or strong liking, it's concern. God is concerned that if we aren't careful, we may end up in a ditch somewhere, giving up hope on life. But, if we change to become closer to God, he is overjoyed! He loves us, but that is more, in-spite of our lack of change, not because of it. 

tan4 : God loves us, but he wants us to move closer to Him, that's why he sent his only Son. Sacrifice is the ultimate price on can pay, and God paid it for us.

"Every action deserves an equal and opposite reaction." -Newton's Third Law of Thermodynamics. If God just gave us His love, it would hardly mean anything. Instead, He made a series of rules (the commandments), and created blessings for willfully obeying them. Sin is the opposite: Willfully disobeying them. He is always willing to offer us His Love, but just like we can refuse a gift at a birthday party or event, we can refuse God's Love. God's Love is offered for free, but we have to reach out our arms to accept it.

If the wages of sin is death, then the wages of righteousness is life (the blessings of God's Love).

God hates us all exactly because we are the special little snowflakes that we are.

God did not die to let us go to heaven sinfully. He died so that we will go to heaven while trying to be a better person and have a better relationship with him.

I believe in God and follow him, but I must say everything you said is right. He would not send us to hell if we stray if he loved us the way we are. I never though about that.

Also remember that we are all sinners. No matter how "born again" you are, you are still sinner and you sin. Faith might save you but this will not ever change. So don't go thinking God loves you unless you "do something wrong". You were born a sinner and even if you were saintly as Jesus Christ himself, you are a sinner just by being a human.

God might forgive you, but he will never love you "just the way you are". It is foolishness to let one think so.