SWTerra : The problem mostly stems from societal "culture" of binary genders, assimilated with sex (male or female). Even I have trouble understanding the concept even though I am a "G". Just like homosexuality it will take time to accept, and all the fighting coming from the "social justice warriors" will only delay the acceptance.

janus : "Triggered! You triggered me!"

You want to talk about my triggers? Mentioning anything involving social justice warriors. I can't stand them at all. I don't know how they think they're helping anything; they're only encouraging more people to stay opposed to the ideas they supposedly "fight for."

P.S: Since the SJW subject is slightly here, and this is currently on my mind, never call me SJWTerra, because that is potentially the one thing that will legitimately irritate me, joke or not. And yes, people have called me this in other communities. I know it's a joke for my, at times, strong opinions, but I still go ballistic over it.

I am very open minded. This is something I'm currently struggling with. I have a friend and she is lesbian. She is what is commonly referred to as a Dike- I am not sure if this is offensive or not just explaining- She dresses and cuts her hair like a male. However, I always find myself calling her she and girl when we are joking or talking. I am not sure if this offends her or not, she has never said anything about it. I am sure she knows I am 100% supportive as I make it clear I am and I enjoyed Drag Queen shows and all but, I for some reason unconsciously I'm not able to always call her by a male pronoun. Just a bad habit in my case to still see her as a woman and not as a man and I don't really know how to change that So, I try to stay away from saying any pronouns. I've always called her a she so I am not sure if calling her any different would be offensive and well, I am not sure how to bring that up to her and talk about it to make sure I am being respectful. I personally would just like to respect personal wishes. We should all decide how we want to be referred to as. And as for homosexuals and transgenders in general I am fully supportive of equal rights. I actually love how so much hotter they can look than most girls seriously love watching RuPaul's Drag Queen seeing the before and after- wow and I can't even cover one stupid pimple! But, yes, just respect everyone regardless of what they look like none of us got the chance to pick and choose how we would look like so let people be who they identify themselves as.

jlove92 : Although it never happened to me, I can understand the confusion. In the 1990s there was this (in?)famous transgender lawyer who was born Michel but wanted to be called Micheline. He / she really looked like a man but had long hair and wore make up. I can now understand that person's struggle a little better, but it is still confusing.

SWTerra : No worries. You seem like a reasonable person so I will not tease And yes, those SJW are down right annoying

SWTerra : Because of the way people have used it, the word "trigger" has become something of a play thing instead of something to take seriously. I agree. SJW's are terrible. They're bigoted, close minded and overall just not pleasant to be around if you have opinions.

jlove92 : I guess it depends on the person. Some people can take a joke, and some can't and are over sensitive. My best guess is to ask tme if you offend them. If you don't (Which I don't think you do), and if you do just be more careful, is all.

Also, Sex and Gender two different things. Doesn't matter what gender you identify in, in a medical office or something similar, you have to state your sex, like it or not. Bodies are different in sex, so even if you identify as another, it's still the best option to go towards saying your real sex.

I respect them. Of course. As would anyone. But there are limits. Tri-gender, gender fluid, gender neutral, otherkin, all these made up words are just that. made up. It's a call for attention, really. It's just saying "Oh look at me, I'm special."

maguc : Otherkin is a "gender"(???) that really annoys me. I'm not even sure what it means, but apparently it means anything you want?

It's very confusing, and I've never really gotten what it means.

While we're on the subject, apparently I've heard that depression has been seen in some places as a gender(?!?!?!). I can't even begin to understand how the gender issue has come to that point. It's clearly just them trying to seem special, and it hurts when there are so many people who are actually in the trans community.

SWTerra : It means like, believing you are an animal, or plant or whatever. It's honestly ridiculous.

Double edged sword on the depression part. While depression might happen more frequently in people of the LGBT community, because of teasing, feeling like an outcast, rejection and neglect.

maguc : Wait, are you serious about that? Believing you're an...animal or plant?

You're sure that's what it is, dude? I know people can be insane, but...that's a new level...

You know what, from now on, I identify as puffball gender. Just, nope, I'm puffball gender.

I'm not really doing that

That is a tricky bridge to cross. You want to be respectful,but at the same time,honest. My answer is this. Now if they were born transgender,they deserve respect,they were dealt a bad hand before they were born. Now if it is someone that acts like the opposite gender they were at birth,or willingly undergoes surgery to be a trans,they do not deserve respect,they do not even respect themselves. Like that Bruce/Caitlyn freakshow.

The only question is, why wouldn't you respect someone's wishes to improve themselves.  You can always bring religion or personal preferences to play, but at the end of the day, you are going to be who you are no matter what.  I certainly don't understand the need or want to change your body parts, but I would never make fun of someone who felt that they should to make themselves feel whole again.

SWTerra : I am 100% honest. That really is what it is.

Oldschool777 : I am terribly sorry sire but that makes absolutely no sense. Being born transgender is a thing, yes, but growing up and realizing you are transgender is also a thing. And, when does acting like the opposite gender mean no respect?
Do I not deserve respect just because I act feminine?
Do you know what being Transgender mean?

At the same time,they are not respecting themselves or those around them. Enhancements,while unnecessary,are a hell of a lot more easier to respect or take than someone mutilating themselves because of some messed up belief they should have been born of another gender. You are born of a gender for a reason,it is your job to find it. Like I said,now if they were born a trans,they were not even given a choice or a chance. Maybe I am just old,maybe I am intolerant,maybe I am just sick of freaks being rewarded for being a deviant. You have people that were born trans and they have to endure torment worse than most and all they want is to be normal. They never asked for this.

Oldschool777 : I won't deny that there are certainly those who say stuff like that just to get attention. We were just talking about that with all of the other gender identities that exist.

However, the development of the human brain is a fascinating one; not everything we think is decided right at birth. We start through copying, and then break off and try to make our own decisions later in life. And this later could actually be even far later, even at young adult age.

To those who are doing it just for attention, shame on them. But unless you know that for certain, I give the benefit of the doubt that it's not solely for attention. But hey, I'm different, you're different. I'm not going to be an idiot and try to fully convince you to what I believe.

Oldschool777 : Maybe it is all of the above? No doubt that there are "abuses"; do we really need 50 expressions to describe gender identity as Facebook is doing? Event though I am gay I still have a hard time grasping the concept of transgender other than by dictionary definitions (acting opposite of your sex at birth).

Nevertheless, although yes Jenner was blown out of proportion, I do not think modern medicine really understands how gender identity works. Hell, they are not even sure what "causes" homosexuality.

maguc : it depends what you mean by respect. If you mean being treated equally to all law-abiding citizens, then we are on board. But if you mean something like "positive" discrimination then you completely lost me.

If you are using the word respect as in "be nice to them, don't be an ass just because they're trans" then yes, of course. I would be nice to them as long as they are nice to me as well. The same goes for any other person.

Personally, I'd refer to someone by their prefered gender pronoun, but, in my opinion, you just can't change your gender.You can't change what chromosomes.I think  some people take thins a little too far with their "your being judgemental because you don't agree with me", in fact, I think our society on a whole is way too sensitve and complains about little things like a bunch of kids.

I'd just like to be able to respectfully agree to disagree.I joke with my brother sometimes that in a few years people will be able to officially identify as a coconut.So start working on your coconut manners!

Spidey243 : Are you sure that's not already possible? There's already otherkin, which is pretty darn close; some part of me knows that if you look hard enough there's a fruit/vegetable gender of sorts.

I agree about the respectfully agreeing to disagree part, though. As someone who probably debates with more people than I should, I've gotten into plenty of disagreements, especially with my admittedly stubborn nature at times, coupled with my tendency to have very unpopular opinions. I've had too many of those agreements end in the other person complaining about how much I hurt their feelings and triggered them for not believing that they're really otherkin or depressed gender, or whatever else you can think of. While I am blunt, I'm not rude or mean, so getting "called out" like that really bothers me.

I'm a boy. I like being a boy. I think being a boy is a good thing. I'm happy with my boyness.

If some other boy despises their boyness, it is a disrespect to me. A person who wants to discard their masculinity tells me that I do not have what is truly valuable. I cannot respect such an action because it takes what I find valuable and throws it away. I'm even inclined to think the action traitorous because they have abandoned what we both ought to have allegiance toward.

Would I be nice? Of course. I work at a gay bar that does nightly tranny shows. They love me, and I love them. I talk to them in person and over facebook. I've talked to them about their problems and they've listened to mine. They are my friends.

I would never advocate anyone to be a jerk to a tranny for being a tranny. I would, however, discourage anyone from maintaining a kind of gender-neutrality thing. It's not true to reality, and I don't encourage ignorance. Being male is good, and to discard it is bad. Being female is good, and to discard it is bad. Gender is not a wibbily wobbily imaginary thing. It's a real, physical phenomena in our bodies. When a mental state doesn't match the physical state, we get the dissonance between, but what is the appropriate resolution? Is it to change the bodily state or the mental state? I advocate the mental state is what is corrupted. The DNA is going to create what is there, but the mental states are what we often already assume is corrupted. Children need to be taught how to share, teenagers need to learn to value of respect, sometimes we desire things too much, sometimes too little. etc. etc.

So I advocate that the mental state is most likely to be at fault. There may be a hormone imbalance or another genetic deformity that alters gender identification, but that is extremely unlikely. It's much more likely a psychological gender dysphoria. Long psychological counseling could change it, but most likely we should simply encourage them that, though they have a kind of sexual dissonance, it is a dissonance that will go unresolved and they must live with for their lives. Once they understand that there is a clash between their biology and psychology, it might be easier for them to understand themselves and simply see their gender dysphoria as one desire out of many, which reduces the pain caused by the dissonance in their lives.

This leads me to my true criticism of sex changes: it's a lie. These people are pained by the dissonance between their bodies and minds, and a sex change would alter the body to fit one's mind, thus destroying the dissonance. However, it doesn't really do much. The outward masculine appearance dies a bit, but not totally. The trannies don't look like girls, the trannies still look male. They haven't really changed genders, they've just been given a few parts to look like that have. The entire procedure is akin to makeup and requires that the tranny live under a mask of their own making for their entire lives. This makes me sick. Why should we ever encourage people not to be themselves? Why do they feel the need to hide who they really are? I think the real problem is that they don't love themselves, and it breaks my heart. They place their self-worth in their looks, and that is absolutely wrong. We shouldn't encourage this illusion. At all.

I'm not going to follow this thread at all, as a lot of the comments I see here are pretty disgusting, but I'll leave this here.

"Oh man, you're such a good person! You donate to the community, you regularly help out the homeless and hungry, you love everybody and try to help out everybody you can! By all accounts, you're a perfect Christian! Wait, what? You want to be a woman / man instead of a man / woman? That's it, you're going to hell." 

It's disrespectful to not only misgender someone and intentionally use the wrong pronoun simply because you disagree with their choices, but it's disrespectful and disgusting to ignore a person's good points just because they're doing something you don't agree with. 

Don't quote the bible in your attempt to try and discredit transgender people if you're going to leave out such gems as not being able to wear clothes made from more than one material (which I'm sure you're doing right now), if you beat a slave and he doesn't get back up you can keep the slave, if your wife or children speak out of line you can stone them to death, etcetera. 

The bible was never meant to be taken at face value. It was and always will be a collection of allegorical tales meant to be a general guideline to how to treat people better. 

I'll leave this comment with this:

I was born with Brown hair, but man, I think I wanna try being a blond. Oh, wait, no, I can't, because brown hair is what God wanted me to have - so I can't do that. Darn. 

ARedLetterDay : What?

The vast majority of us, if not all of us, have not taken that stance at all! In fact, I agree with you on nearly every point, and I'm one of the people who have commented the most in the recent posts for this!

I don't understand transgendered people completely, nor the reasoning for their decision to transition, so I've had more questions than answers, always. But that's because I am curious, especially as someone who has some form of interest in psychology. Instead of fight against people doing so, I want to find out what I don't understand about it. After all, there have always been tomboyish girls and girly guys throughout history; it's not such a stretch to me to accept transgenders.

On the other hand, I think stuff like otherkin is just dumb. Gender identity is not a way to identify as a snail.

Regardless, I don't think any of us (especially in recent comments) have been using religion as the rationale to our claims. And we've certainly been respectful, at that.