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Are People Naturally Good or Naturally Evil?

 

07-24-13 11:56 PM
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First off I would like to say that this is not a discussion about God or the Problem of Evil; this is just a philosophical question as to what type of person man is.

Good day fellow Vizzed members.

In my Philosophy class I had thought up of this question and I've had a hard time finding an answer to my question. So I wish to share it with my fellow Vizzed members and explain why its a hard question to answer.

As I'm sure you have read my question is "Are People Naturally Good or Evil". To understand what I mean, here is a hypothetical situation...

"You are walking in the country side where you encounter an old lady next to a stream. She appears weak and frail and could easily be swept away by the current. You also notice that she has a small purse that most likely has some money or other valuable stuff inside. She spots you and says that she needs to get across the stream, but she is to weak to do it yourself and the nearest bridge is a couple of miles away. She asks for your help. A Naturally Good man would help the lady across the river and decline any award she offers for your help. A Naturally Bad man would steal the lady's purse, push her into the river so that she gets swept away, and you run away."

So now you folks know what I mean by Naturally Good and Evil. This question is a tough one to answer because...

1. If we say that People are naturally good, then why do people commit acts or do stuff that is not good to others; but is good for themselves? Not to mention if people are naturally good, then why do we need laws if people are naturally good and know what not to do (like kill a man, steal, lie, etc).

2. If we say that People are naturally evil, then why do some bad people do good things, yet they still commit bad acts? Not to mention if people are naturally evil, then are the laws that society has passed also bad laws?

So what do you guys think? Do you think people are Naturally Good or Naturally Evil. Is the world black or white (I'm sure most people know what I mean). Also you can't pick Grey or a "it depends answer" as I hope my hypothetical and reasoning for why its a tough answer makes picking a "grey" answer seem hard.
First off I would like to say that this is not a discussion about God or the Problem of Evil; this is just a philosophical question as to what type of person man is.

Good day fellow Vizzed members.

In my Philosophy class I had thought up of this question and I've had a hard time finding an answer to my question. So I wish to share it with my fellow Vizzed members and explain why its a hard question to answer.

As I'm sure you have read my question is "Are People Naturally Good or Evil". To understand what I mean, here is a hypothetical situation...

"You are walking in the country side where you encounter an old lady next to a stream. She appears weak and frail and could easily be swept away by the current. You also notice that she has a small purse that most likely has some money or other valuable stuff inside. She spots you and says that she needs to get across the stream, but she is to weak to do it yourself and the nearest bridge is a couple of miles away. She asks for your help. A Naturally Good man would help the lady across the river and decline any award she offers for your help. A Naturally Bad man would steal the lady's purse, push her into the river so that she gets swept away, and you run away."

So now you folks know what I mean by Naturally Good and Evil. This question is a tough one to answer because...

1. If we say that People are naturally good, then why do people commit acts or do stuff that is not good to others; but is good for themselves? Not to mention if people are naturally good, then why do we need laws if people are naturally good and know what not to do (like kill a man, steal, lie, etc).

2. If we say that People are naturally evil, then why do some bad people do good things, yet they still commit bad acts? Not to mention if people are naturally evil, then are the laws that society has passed also bad laws?

So what do you guys think? Do you think people are Naturally Good or Naturally Evil. Is the world black or white (I'm sure most people know what I mean). Also you can't pick Grey or a "it depends answer" as I hope my hypothetical and reasoning for why its a tough answer makes picking a "grey" answer seem hard.
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07-25-13 03:43 AM
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there is no such thing as naturaly good or evil.
in fact good and evil arent real, its just relative to what society judges to be appropriate, and that changes nation to nation.
movies always have this clear cut set of good or evil, but most "evil" people do have points where they act selflessly, most good people often act in a way that isnt considerate of others.
what determines how good you are isnt where you are born, it isnt your faith in god, your gender or colour. its your circumstances.
that guy you talked to who had no house, that relative who gives you presents, that guy you see abusing prople, the kid that acts like a bully, and most importantly your guardians, who guide your development and teach you how to act.
if you cloned 2 of the same guy theyd turn out different if you raised them differently.
I doubt adolf hitler would turn out the same if raised differently.
the only thing that cant really be accounted for is mental problems. but are you evil if you have no control?
are you evil when you are just acting as your parents, or tge world have raised you? or are you the victim of a society that failed you, and then condemns you instead of offering a helping hand?
there is no such thing as naturaly good or evil.
in fact good and evil arent real, its just relative to what society judges to be appropriate, and that changes nation to nation.
movies always have this clear cut set of good or evil, but most "evil" people do have points where they act selflessly, most good people often act in a way that isnt considerate of others.
what determines how good you are isnt where you are born, it isnt your faith in god, your gender or colour. its your circumstances.
that guy you talked to who had no house, that relative who gives you presents, that guy you see abusing prople, the kid that acts like a bully, and most importantly your guardians, who guide your development and teach you how to act.
if you cloned 2 of the same guy theyd turn out different if you raised them differently.
I doubt adolf hitler would turn out the same if raised differently.
the only thing that cant really be accounted for is mental problems. but are you evil if you have no control?
are you evil when you are just acting as your parents, or tge world have raised you? or are you the victim of a society that failed you, and then condemns you instead of offering a helping hand?
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07-25-13 05:44 PM
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The two worda here are just words said by the people who class themselves higher than the rest of the society. I do not believe in good/evil, and it boils down to two things in my opinion-nurture, or nature.
The two worda here are just words said by the people who class themselves higher than the rest of the society. I do not believe in good/evil, and it boils down to two things in my opinion-nurture, or nature.
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07-26-13 01:06 AM
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Have you ever heard of the social psychology?experiment, the Stanford Prison Experiment?? Well they built a prison in the basement of a Stanford building, having 16 students take part. 8 of them were inmates in the prison, 8 of them were prison guards. they all knew they were being watched 24 7 but that didn't matter. The 8 prison guards tortured the living crap out of the 8 inmates. Man is evil !

In another social psychology experiment this one people didn't know they were being watched except for the 1 guy that was the actor.
The actor, would pretend to be an injured man in an alleyway while people passed by were going to be late for class or something of the like. only 2 out of every 10 people stopped to see if the "injured man" was okay. Man is evil !

Another social psychology experiment, *I don't remember exactly how this one goes exactly but it's like* a student was strapped to a lie detector and was told to lie to every single question even when he knew the answer. In another room there was a man strapped to an electric... something? that would shock him every time the question was answered wrong and increase in the voltage strength after every question to be more painful. The lie detector person would answer the question wrong and the other man would get electrocuted. After 4 or 5 questions the man would start screaming because of the pain. and the lie detector person could hear them, but the person asking the questions said he's okay, don't worry. next question. He could hear him crying in the next room. only 1 out of every 18 ? *That's probably wrong but it's somewhere around there* would demand that it be stopped. that he would no longer answer any more questions. Man is evil !
The same thing was done with a cat, but the rate of them stopping the experiment was A LOT HIGHER than that of a human.

I hope I made my point.


Have you ever heard of the social psychology?experiment, the Stanford Prison Experiment?? Well they built a prison in the basement of a Stanford building, having 16 students take part. 8 of them were inmates in the prison, 8 of them were prison guards. they all knew they were being watched 24 7 but that didn't matter. The 8 prison guards tortured the living crap out of the 8 inmates. Man is evil !

In another social psychology experiment this one people didn't know they were being watched except for the 1 guy that was the actor.
The actor, would pretend to be an injured man in an alleyway while people passed by were going to be late for class or something of the like. only 2 out of every 10 people stopped to see if the "injured man" was okay. Man is evil !

Another social psychology experiment, *I don't remember exactly how this one goes exactly but it's like* a student was strapped to a lie detector and was told to lie to every single question even when he knew the answer. In another room there was a man strapped to an electric... something? that would shock him every time the question was answered wrong and increase in the voltage strength after every question to be more painful. The lie detector person would answer the question wrong and the other man would get electrocuted. After 4 or 5 questions the man would start screaming because of the pain. and the lie detector person could hear them, but the person asking the questions said he's okay, don't worry. next question. He could hear him crying in the next room. only 1 out of every 18 ? *That's probably wrong but it's somewhere around there* would demand that it be stopped. that he would no longer answer any more questions. Man is evil !
The same thing was done with a cat, but the rate of them stopping the experiment was A LOT HIGHER than that of a human.

I hope I made my point.

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(edited by zeross121 on 07-26-13 01:08 AM)    

07-27-13 11:36 AM
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thenumberone : Whereas you and I battle constantly and disagree with each other about 98% of the time, here you are absolutely spot on with your opinion.

I completely agree, not that it matters.

People are just people.  We're animals like any other animals.  We make decisions based on experiences and expected outcomes and what we've been taught.  We learn to act how we do.  One culture thinks eating cows is normal and healthy, one culture considers it evil.  One culture eats dogs with on problem and another thinks it's outrageous.

Culture determines good and evil and people themselves determine good and evil.  It's a human construct that doesn't naturally exist.

Saying that, I think people are interested in survival of themselves and their families and they make decisions based on that.  People are looking to live and will make that need continue by choice selection.  Good or evil?  Nah.  We're just trying to make ends meet however we can.
thenumberone : Whereas you and I battle constantly and disagree with each other about 98% of the time, here you are absolutely spot on with your opinion.

I completely agree, not that it matters.

People are just people.  We're animals like any other animals.  We make decisions based on experiences and expected outcomes and what we've been taught.  We learn to act how we do.  One culture thinks eating cows is normal and healthy, one culture considers it evil.  One culture eats dogs with on problem and another thinks it's outrageous.

Culture determines good and evil and people themselves determine good and evil.  It's a human construct that doesn't naturally exist.

Saying that, I think people are interested in survival of themselves and their families and they make decisions based on that.  People are looking to live and will make that need continue by choice selection.  Good or evil?  Nah.  We're just trying to make ends meet however we can.
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08-05-13 08:09 AM
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Good and evil are not necessarily natural things. It is easier to be bad than it is to be good, yes, but, in the end, it's all about making decisions. No one's anywhere near perfect, though, so you have to keep a mind of that. However, if we completely eliminate every minor flaw of society, life will be as boring as hell and men will start to decay. It's the major flaws that you really have to worry about. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFff8NOur4E TURN DOWN YOUR VOLUME (it is in G Major)
Good and evil are not necessarily natural things. It is easier to be bad than it is to be good, yes, but, in the end, it's all about making decisions. No one's anywhere near perfect, though, so you have to keep a mind of that. However, if we completely eliminate every minor flaw of society, life will be as boring as hell and men will start to decay. It's the major flaws that you really have to worry about. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFff8NOur4E TURN DOWN YOUR VOLUME (it is in G Major)
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08-06-13 05:03 AM
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    It's been said, but good or evil is relative. Something that we do all the time today without anyone batting an eye, for example wearing shorts, would be considered crass and rude to someone from the 17th century, but now people wear them all the time (although sometimes it's frowned upon, like in a meeting). Similarly, try giving a hi-five to someone in Greece and see how offended they get (It's like giving the middle finger to them). Think of some of the seven deathly sins. Sloth? Envy? Pride? Most of us do that every single day.
There is a tribe in South Africa where killing is a rite of passage to manhood and those who do not comply can be put to death, but pretty much anywhere else in the world, it's the opposite.

   Otherwise, I think that people are instinctively benevolent. Evolutionarily speaking, we would never thrive as a species if we were just raping and murdering each other left right and center. How could we make buildings and cities and countries without working together? Some "evil" things are acted out because of necessity, for stealing or acts of defense. Others are because of illness or lack of control.
  
   I don't think people are inherently evil, but I don't think that most people would risk their lives for another. People can be quite selfish, but I think that the selfishness can be accounted to self preservation and environmental effects. Man is good!
    It's been said, but good or evil is relative. Something that we do all the time today without anyone batting an eye, for example wearing shorts, would be considered crass and rude to someone from the 17th century, but now people wear them all the time (although sometimes it's frowned upon, like in a meeting). Similarly, try giving a hi-five to someone in Greece and see how offended they get (It's like giving the middle finger to them). Think of some of the seven deathly sins. Sloth? Envy? Pride? Most of us do that every single day.
There is a tribe in South Africa where killing is a rite of passage to manhood and those who do not comply can be put to death, but pretty much anywhere else in the world, it's the opposite.

   Otherwise, I think that people are instinctively benevolent. Evolutionarily speaking, we would never thrive as a species if we were just raping and murdering each other left right and center. How could we make buildings and cities and countries without working together? Some "evil" things are acted out because of necessity, for stealing or acts of defense. Others are because of illness or lack of control.
  
   I don't think people are inherently evil, but I don't think that most people would risk their lives for another. People can be quite selfish, but I think that the selfishness can be accounted to self preservation and environmental effects. Man is good!
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08-17-13 06:25 PM
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Neither is true. When you are born, 95% of what you do and what environment you grow up in and how situations are handled at a young age help determine how you will initially represent yourself as a person. However, it is a fact that people are raised negatively. You always hear parents say "dont touch that" or dont do that". Parents spend much more time punishing someone for doing something bad, that they forget to reward someone for doing something good. Both of these things happen to people, but it it always heavy on the negative side.
Mental disorders are difficult to measure though.
Neither is true. When you are born, 95% of what you do and what environment you grow up in and how situations are handled at a young age help determine how you will initially represent yourself as a person. However, it is a fact that people are raised negatively. You always hear parents say "dont touch that" or dont do that". Parents spend much more time punishing someone for doing something bad, that they forget to reward someone for doing something good. Both of these things happen to people, but it it always heavy on the negative side.
Mental disorders are difficult to measure though.
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08-18-13 07:24 PM
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Now, I want to start this post with a simple thing -- There is no natural cause of evil and good.

In reality, there is no good and bad. It's just decisions that people make and the worldwide community's take on them. Most of the time, it's controversial. It could be "good" in some eyes and "bad" in others. That is a main reason in why it's not natural.

I'll use Hitler as an example. (I don't mean to insult; Sorry if I do.)

Now, to my next point. If it were natural, then, that means it's the parents to blame. And that's not the case. Did Hitler's parents go and start a Holocaust? No, they were normal civilians. Why did Hitler cause a Holocaust, then? Another reason it's not natural. Or it could be vice versa. If Hitler had kids, in no way would they cause World War 3. I doubt it.

It's all what the person goes through in their childhood, to their current social status. Hitler wasn't as crazy as he was until he was rejected from art school. World War 2 would be prevented if he were accepted.

Which concludes it: Naturally good or evil? No. It's all what they encounter inside.
Now, I want to start this post with a simple thing -- There is no natural cause of evil and good.

In reality, there is no good and bad. It's just decisions that people make and the worldwide community's take on them. Most of the time, it's controversial. It could be "good" in some eyes and "bad" in others. That is a main reason in why it's not natural.

I'll use Hitler as an example. (I don't mean to insult; Sorry if I do.)

Now, to my next point. If it were natural, then, that means it's the parents to blame. And that's not the case. Did Hitler's parents go and start a Holocaust? No, they were normal civilians. Why did Hitler cause a Holocaust, then? Another reason it's not natural. Or it could be vice versa. If Hitler had kids, in no way would they cause World War 3. I doubt it.

It's all what the person goes through in their childhood, to their current social status. Hitler wasn't as crazy as he was until he was rejected from art school. World War 2 would be prevented if he were accepted.

Which concludes it: Naturally good or evil? No. It's all what they encounter inside.
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08-18-13 09:40 PM
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Hmm. I guess you all have good answers. However I think I was looking for answers as what would the "natural response" be if a person sees someone in trouble (assume that he doesn't know a thing about what society views as good or evil responses).
Hmm. I guess you all have good answers. However I think I was looking for answers as what would the "natural response" be if a person sees someone in trouble (assume that he doesn't know a thing about what society views as good or evil responses).
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09-25-13 09:30 AM
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Everyone is definately born naturaly evil. Though your example makes no sense because there are plenty of different ways it could go. The person could just ignore her and keep walking, he could take or even ask for a reward from the lady, he could say he was busy, etc. But the reason I say humans are naturaly evil is because at heart all humans are greedy and are fighting for survival. Even if the person is doing a good thing e.i: giving his significant other a present. He or she always expects something back even if it's only a kiss or a hug. Humans always want something for their actions. Another example would be, people giving money to charities. Sure it's a nice gest but people always have a motive like if their donating for a charity dealing with cancer one of their family members could have cancer and they,re hoping it will help them.  
Everyone is definately born naturaly evil. Though your example makes no sense because there are plenty of different ways it could go. The person could just ignore her and keep walking, he could take or even ask for a reward from the lady, he could say he was busy, etc. But the reason I say humans are naturaly evil is because at heart all humans are greedy and are fighting for survival. Even if the person is doing a good thing e.i: giving his significant other a present. He or she always expects something back even if it's only a kiss or a hug. Humans always want something for their actions. Another example would be, people giving money to charities. Sure it's a nice gest but people always have a motive like if their donating for a charity dealing with cancer one of their family members could have cancer and they,re hoping it will help them.  
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09-26-13 03:42 PM
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Oldschool41 :
I believe people are naturally evil, or what this society believes is evil, however instead of the natural response of self preservation, many people have responses of species preservation. But I suppose some people are born neutral, e.g will ask that old lady for a reward, or as with the classic example, steal that loaf of bread to feed his starving family.
Oldschool41 :
I believe people are naturally evil, or what this society believes is evil, however instead of the natural response of self preservation, many people have responses of species preservation. But I suppose some people are born neutral, e.g will ask that old lady for a reward, or as with the classic example, steal that loaf of bread to feed his starving family.
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10-07-13 09:51 PM
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Being good or evil isn't anything natural, good and evil are just things made by society, some people think that something is bad while others might thing that is something good. In nature there is no good animals or evil animals, every animal has to do what it has to do to survive.
Being good or evil is something made up by society, as there is no natural good or natural evil.
Being good or evil isn't anything natural, good and evil are just things made by society, some people think that something is bad while others might thing that is something good. In nature there is no good animals or evil animals, every animal has to do what it has to do to survive.
Being good or evil is something made up by society, as there is no natural good or natural evil.
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10-07-13 10:24 PM
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I don't think everyone is born good or evil naturally, it mostly depends on how he/she is raised, if he/she is raised with a good family, then that person will be good, if a bad family, then that person will be evil.
I don't think everyone is born good or evil naturally, it mostly depends on how he/she is raised, if he/she is raised with a good family, then that person will be good, if a bad family, then that person will be evil.
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Yeah, no one is born good or bad. It depends on the environment they are raised in and grow up in. If they are born into a nice family with a decent life and 2 parents that are together and employed with good paying jobs, then they will probably grow up with a nice life, and a more positive outlook on life because of the environment they grew up in. Whereas someone who grows up in a divorced family with a parent at an average paying job and conflict in their life, it will affect them and they may not have as positive an outlook as the individual with a nice life.

So a good or bad person is nor born, rather they come up from the environment they grow up in that will determine good or bad.

That is just my opinion and final word on the matter. I just think it takes a positive/ negative environment or lifestyle to influence their behavior. Good thread by the way, this reallly makes you think.
Yeah, no one is born good or bad. It depends on the environment they are raised in and grow up in. If they are born into a nice family with a decent life and 2 parents that are together and employed with good paying jobs, then they will probably grow up with a nice life, and a more positive outlook on life because of the environment they grew up in. Whereas someone who grows up in a divorced family with a parent at an average paying job and conflict in their life, it will affect them and they may not have as positive an outlook as the individual with a nice life.

So a good or bad person is nor born, rather they come up from the environment they grow up in that will determine good or bad.

That is just my opinion and final word on the matter. I just think it takes a positive/ negative environment or lifestyle to influence their behavior. Good thread by the way, this reallly makes you think.
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10-08-13 09:07 PM
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Oldschool41 : I don't think there are many people that would murder an old lady just for some extra pocket money. Maybe if they actually needed the money.
Oldschool41 : I don't think there are many people that would murder an old lady just for some extra pocket money. Maybe if they actually needed the money.
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10-08-13 09:16 PM
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Oldschool41 : I have to go with naturally evil, because in my philosophy class today we learned about Thomas Hobbes, the State of Nature, and the war of all against all.
Oldschool41 : I have to go with naturally evil, because in my philosophy class today we learned about Thomas Hobbes, the State of Nature, and the war of all against all.
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10-11-13 08:21 PM
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I guess Ill be the person to bring God into the conversation. General Disclaimer: If you aren't Christian I apologize but don't read the part because well I'm going to say it anyways and I have multiple points.

I believe that humans are born naturally good. Why? Simple because everything God makes is good, therefore, if God made us then we are good. Now, we as humans can change to be "good" or "evil" depending on the moral choices we make.


For example, every human being has a conscience. A conscience basically gives humans advice based upon past experiences. Now can a conscience be bad? Yes, yes it can. This is merely called a lax conscience. A lax conscience means that the person ignores their conscience. Now that doesn't mean that a person can't become good. On the contrary the person can become good. Likewise, a person with a good conscience may become evil/bad if they don't follow their conscience. Therefore, humans are born good but may become evil through experience.

Now I will admit that there might be some cases where there is a mental disorder (For lack of a better word). In this case the person is still born good but can either work harder to try to overcome their weakness or give into it. Either way the person is born good in the beginning but slowly starts to learn to be evil/good as they grow up.
I guess Ill be the person to bring God into the conversation. General Disclaimer: If you aren't Christian I apologize but don't read the part because well I'm going to say it anyways and I have multiple points.

I believe that humans are born naturally good. Why? Simple because everything God makes is good, therefore, if God made us then we are good. Now, we as humans can change to be "good" or "evil" depending on the moral choices we make.


For example, every human being has a conscience. A conscience basically gives humans advice based upon past experiences. Now can a conscience be bad? Yes, yes it can. This is merely called a lax conscience. A lax conscience means that the person ignores their conscience. Now that doesn't mean that a person can't become good. On the contrary the person can become good. Likewise, a person with a good conscience may become evil/bad if they don't follow their conscience. Therefore, humans are born good but may become evil through experience.

Now I will admit that there might be some cases where there is a mental disorder (For lack of a better word). In this case the person is still born good but can either work harder to try to overcome their weakness or give into it. Either way the person is born good in the beginning but slowly starts to learn to be evil/good as they grow up.
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(edited by angelbear1297 on 10-11-13 08:22 PM)    

10-12-13 11:09 PM
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I would say that humans are naturally born good or evil since it can be inheritable traits from their parents. However, there is one thing I like to add, someone can actually change. It depends if the human being does want to change himself or does not want to change. That is all I know from what I have seen before.
I would say that humans are naturally born good or evil since it can be inheritable traits from their parents. However, there is one thing I like to add, someone can actually change. It depends if the human being does want to change himself or does not want to change. That is all I know from what I have seen before.
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