becerra95 : added it in


pokemon x : that's a fair enough point if you can edit one to be ready for that you can start getting one ready if you want if not I'll have to get on that before I completely forget again

If we are going to include the "one post per day in a thread" then sandwich posting is perfectly allowed, in my opinion. That new rule allows a wide gap of time for people to reply before you're actually allowed to reply back, and to me the fact nobody else replies is out of the user's control thus any sandwich posting is accidental. If we see several occasions in which it's not accidental then we can talk again, but for starters I'd let it be.

As for the staff advantage in the CP jerseys, like we said, nothing we can do about it. It can't be kept up manually, either by the users themselves or by the staff team monitoring results, and not awarding CP isn't an option either because how much someone contributes to this site shouldn't be limited by a competition. So yeah, only David himself can do something about it.

I'm not keen in making the DQ discussion public, because it can be used rather badly. With the rules as they are right now I think it's pretty clear when does someone break them and be DQed. And while we may need to be swifter and better at communicating, when at all feasibly possible, I don't see how exactly would a public thread help in that. I only see it as another thread people can post in, and enlarge posts with details to not bet DQed while at the same time enhancing word count. To me it's not necessary, but if everyone's in for it I'm open to being proven wrong.

EX Palen : Just a note on the Public DQ thread discussion is that everyone would have access to view but only staff+ can post in it. Which is possible to setup without David having to code something new.

https://www.vizzed.com/boards/thread.php?id=105138

I know you can post in this thread but for example that forum above is what can be done.

SonicOlmstead : another thing, it’s just for preference to myself, if someone is not competing and is posting multiple times on a thread, then it shouldn’t affect them competing for future TdV right? Like he or she isn’t competing, should we make that clear so there won’t be a misunderstanding between both parties? Because like I said I’m most likely not competing in January due to work and you know how much I like to post and be passive aggressive on most users and all. Should I just go “hey losers I’m not competing so write me off this scrub” or just get the DQ’s and not worry about any future repercussions?

Hey long time no see!

I did skim through a lot of the posts so if any of the points are redundant ignore them or let me know so i can just edit it out whenever.

A simple question first though,
Are you asking what changes you think would work in the spirit of the TDV being a competition, stuff like fairness, clarity of ruling and the dq's that come from it and so on. OR are you asking how can we make the TDV more fun?

For the first part i totally agree with the 1 post per day per thread. Or at least enforce it on certain forums. I know i'm not active here but nothing dulls the brain and the want to compete more than just the simple spam of elimination type threads for example. It's lazy word count that anyone can do in 10 seconds and nobody actually truly cares what someones choices are. (also i mean this jokingly, but it'd stop people using multiple accounts to inflate their posts by replying to themselves to avoid double posting *plays x files theme song*)

The reason i asked for the clarification is that simply put if people are being super competitive (which they often do on TDV) it inevitably leads to breaking some of the more lenient or harder to define rules.

Heck if you really want to consider the suggestion of DQ's not being month long.... just remove 10 points on any jersey their rule breaking gave them an advantage on.. The upside is that it'll make people more observant of the rules they may be close to breaking, the downside is that it's more tedious work for mods.

As for the fun part. It's always going to be harder to have fun when the userbase is so limited. More people = More competitive people, means more challenge/enjoyment and more people to interact with. I don't really have a way to make it more fun currently. I do think enforcing the 1 post per day per thread would work to make it more fun. or at the very least make users contribute more in terms of discussion and thread creation perhaps.

Also random quesiton as i'm here and i don't want to make a thread for it.
Has anyone considered a game highscore jersey? y'know who can get the high score on this game for this day etc. More mod work i know and it'd probably have to be tallied manually but /shrug

Anyways this was the mumbling of a passerby. Take care

sonicmcmuffin : Heyo it's been a while!

I was asking for both truthfully and I also was trying to work on clarifying things cause I noticed we had a lot harder time defining the rules last go around on when they were broken or not or thinking something was pushing it but wasn't in the rules. As far as I know a game highscore jersey hasn't been considered but I imagine wouldn't be able to happen for a long time since it'd involve coding from david though getting the rgr involved in a way is an idea I like.

As for the removing 10 points idea while I think it would be interesting I have no idea on how much David would have to do with that but it's definitely interesting.

1. Not a fan of the One post per day in certain threads as that can lead to other rules being broken. Until a few years ago elimination, hangman, and ABC games were closed during the TDV and I think it should go back to being like that. Because of the nature of those kinds of threads, you could also move them to Crazy House and have them fall under the CH rule.


2. Just like how the gray banner was added for veterans, I think it would be cool if there was a new banner that was exclusively for staff.

3. I think it would be more fair to more users if the final hour of the day rules are changed. Maybe make it a two hour window or change the %.

okay I'm sure the suggestions are probably closed now and even though it's not a rule I do feel that the seven pointer thing should be brought up in the inaugural posts for newbies that suddenly find themselves in the competition (something Postman brought up in the TdV thread)

I think a rule us that you shouldn't be allowed to make posts that nobody is interested in, or you have to get 1 or 2 responses yo get points. Because someone could make a post about types of dust. I don't really know though, this thread was made over a year ago, but just a suggestion.

Maybe I should have suggested an amnesty day regarding the tour and posting in Vizzed Ville South

I like the idea that if you mess up and get a DQ action you should be warned first before being DQ. Sometimes it is easy to make a mistake due to life or just not paying attention. An Amnesty day could be that you get a warning, but also get a chance to explain. If the person keeps doing it despite getting a warning than that is when they should be DQ

Can we just be more stricter? No warning, no second chance, be back more of “read the rules before you compete” type deal? They can’t read they shouldn’t participate. They cry when they get DQ, guess what? Read the rules before crying. I’m just saying everything can be avoided with standards set and clarity

I would like to see more of an enforcement on blantant spamming or word padding.
I know the site activity has gone down quite a bit, but this TdV, as well as the surprise one earlier this year... it's just been so painful to see it. It's almost like the TdV doesn't mean anything any more. It essentially feels like a spam fest these days.

Whether or not other people reply doesn't determine the value of the post. Reviews and walkthroughs are arguably the most valuable and high-quality posts on the site, and they rarely get replies. I think you should be free to discuss what you'd like, even if other people aren't as interested in it as you are.
Dauntez :

tornadocam : I think there generally is some leniency with minor / first time offenses. I know for sure that last April there were instances where we gave people warnings instead of DQing them. It's generally a case-by-case decision, and I think that's probably the best way to do it. If someone is blatantly or intentionally breaking the rules, they shouldn't get off scot-free. But if it's a mistake, or if an obscure rule was broken, I think a warning is sufficient. You also have to keep in mind that basically everyone who is active on the site nowadays has been here for years, so the "I didn't know" defense doesn't apply very often unless it's a new rule or a rule that rarely comes up. I do generally agree with what you are saying, though.

thing1 : The TdV has always been a spam fest, it's not just "these days" lol. The problem with rules against "spamming" and "word padding" is that they are subjective. I could be accused of "word padding" because I type a lot, but I'm not intentionally doing it for the increased word count. This is just how I write. I'm a yapper. If it is truly blatant spam or word padding (i.e. has absolutely nothing to do with the topic, is complete nonsense, etc.) then the post's words will be ignored and a warning/DQ will be handed out. But if the only basis for calling something "spam" is that it's written differently from how most people write, or the person labeling it "spam" doesn't like the post, that is not a valid reason for action to be taken.

Staff : I skimmed through a lot of this thread and I guess I'll be a contrarian to what some are saying. My biggest issue with adding a bunch of these weirdly specific rules is that you are doing the opposite of what the TdV is supposed to be doing. It will scare away anyone opening the thread and debating participating for the first time. I've always been of the mindset that less is more when it comes to rules. Maybe to the point is a better way to phrase that. Ultimately it's not up to me now but that's how I operated when I was in charge of forums, the discord or even the whole website. Activity is, let's face it, not what it used to be and it won't be seeing more than sporadic little boosts due to some users sticking around or coming back for a short while out of nostalgia. Any hope you have of bringing in new competitors needs to be as high as possible, and that thread already is a lot to take in at once, let alone adding a bunch of rules. Bullet points are quickly starting to look like a grocery list for a family of 12.

Take that 25% rule with specific forums. As someone who has now competed in, and won, a fair share of TdV's, I never even remember it exists. I don't even think about it when I post. Does it really matter? Back in the day when getting like 50 posts minimum was a requirement to win Blue, it was a relevant rule to prevent users from spamming like 30 posts in 'Throw a random object at the user below you!' or similar threads. These days you can easily win a Blue jersey with like 12 posts 75% of the time. Are we really going to punish someone posting 4 times in Crazy House as opposed to 3? How stuck up is that? I say get rid of it. If need be, have mods make every thread in those forums limited to one post a day. If you can win a blue jersey posting only once in the 7 or so crazy house threads and nowhere else, nobody else cared to compete for it anyway. Maybe enact it starting from a certain post count threshold, like 30 (or well 32 I guess mathematically)

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I think the best way to make the competition more fair and keep it accessible and fun for everyone, new competitors included, is for these changes or 'rules' to be systematic and keep them out of user's and staff's hands. The feature to now make threads 'One post per day' as a hard limit is a great example of this.

The best suggestion I have seen in here is to limit action counts that count for TdV. Have everyone on a relatively level playing field and have 'Elite' be the value limit for actions to count towards the TdV standings. Not manually, but make it a priority for David to be able to code that in. We all know higher ups can and have abused the staff limits for stupid quick actions like Screenshot ratings for an easy green jersey (I'll be the first to admit I have been guilty of this myself). Any actions staff makes that go beyond the 'Elite limit' will still give the user the CP they deserve, but the action and its CP just won't be credited for the TdV standings.

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Another suggestion in case you really want to keep the 25% rule: make a forum specifically for forum games (Hangman, Elimination, ABC, ...) no matter their subject. Move every single one of those threads in there, no exceptions. And then add it to that list. At the moment there are like around 6 or 7 Elimination threads that make up about a solid 40-50% of many people's daily posts (again, myself included many days). I'm aware there are not a lot of places to post, I struggle with it myself, but I still never feel good doing it.


--

Last suggestion for simplicity: rewrite the rules in the TdV thread post in a different format. The big grocery shopping list needs to go. I am imagining myself as a new competitor reading it and having no clue what rule applies to what jersey, to every jersey, etc.

Example:

Yellow Jersey: The person who typed the most words in a day
What gets you DQ'd from the Yellow Jersey: Writing 50% (half or more) of your words in the last hour of the day. We want everyone to have a chance to compete instead of stealing a jersey at the last minute of the day.

And so on. And again that is why I think less rules are more, specifically the ones like the 50% rule that is hard to code in (I imagine anyway). But it gives more clarity to new competitors.

--
Oh final final suggestion. Include and clarify that you can gain 7 points in a jersey for doubling the score of second place. Right now it's not mentioned anywhere.

Furret: Personally I think David should create multiple threads for each TDV topic of interest and then link to them in each new TDV thread.

Make one thread for the rules, one thread for the daily double CP calendar, maybe another thread for the points and banners info. That way there can just be an introduction and then links to the relevent info.

I wrote a whole long response to your post and accidentally closed the tab before posting it.
Furret :

I'm not typing it all again, but here is the summary of what I wanted to say: I agree with you. I think we should get rid of the following rules:
-More 25% in certain forums
-More than 25% in the same thread
-Double-posting (if the second post adds something of value to the thread, then who cares?)
-Tabbing (hasn't been relevant since the Green Jersey was changed a decade ago)

Keep the following rules:
-Abusing CP system
-Copying content from other websites
-Reviewing games you haven't played
-Off-topic or substandard posts
-50% of words in final hour

And add the following rule:
-No AI-generated posts

And I definitely think that the rules can be formatted in a more concise way in the opening post.

I agree that both of the 25% rules could now be abolished. In recent times, it hasn't even been put into effect because of the low posting levels, after all if you make 4 posts overall you basically break the rule so a number to properly apply it would be relatively high. Back in the days when people made 50+ posts a day it made sense, but now it's kind of a nuisance.

Double posting I think should still be forbidden. You can edit posts, even if somebody has already posted after you and even if you can't summon people when editing. I know not everyone likes to go back to their posts and edit them, but the fact you can do that in my opinion is enough to forbid double posting. It's an easy way to double-up in Blue whereas Yellow isn't affected whether you edit a post or make a secondary one.

Tabbing is quite the grey area. In my opinion, we should make a similar rule to the 50% words in final hour relating to posts, because otherwise with the tabbing you can make several posts quickly and overtake easily in Blue even if posts are easier to rack up than words. But if people start abusing tabbing again and produce low-quality posts in great numbers (mainly those short on free time but wanting to compete and score high), then we'll have to permaban it.

I also agree that limiting the daily actions to Elite level is a fair move, it still puts at disadvantage normal and trusted members but at least puts all higher ranks on equal grounds. If at all possible, excluding staff-only actions would also be needed so the field is totally levelled. The thing is that I don't know if it'd be easy to code that or if CP will still be rewarded for that (CP is an overall stat beyond TdV that shouldn't be affected negatively by it, so if it can't be done without cutting the CP payout I'd say just apply Elite level to all "normal" actions).

This last point raises the fact of increased CP gains by staff+ for having access to more actions. Sincerely, what I would pursue here is a staff overexerting themselves beyond their usual year-round activity and having a much broader activity, and with the current staff team we have it's quite easy to track. If they're simply in a similar activity level to non-TdV months then I say let them be, it would be dumb to make our staff less active because everyone is competing for points.

Other than that, a small rework of the opening thread would be nice, it's been reused since ancient times now. Separating the threads is not an option, too confusing for everyone and time consuming for David or whomever could be in charge of that, as well as empty threads no one could reply to (who would reply to the double CP calendar anyway without being spammy).

Another point about the "tabbing" rule—we have people openly admitting that they write reviews and other posts months ahead of time and save them for the TdV. That is just tabbing (i.e. writing a bunch of posts and post them all at a specific time), but on a much larger scale.

EX Palen : The concerns you express about removing the tabbing rule are valid, but they are already covered by two other existing rules. Someone saving all of their posts for the last hour will already result in their DQ for Yellow due to 50% of their words inevitably coming in the last hour, and if their posts are low-quality, that on its own is grounds for a DQ from Blue.

I wouldn't be opposed to making a rule against preparing posts in advance and posting them at a later date, since I think it's a pretty ridiculous thing to do, but we've already allowed it for so long that it seems silly to ban it now.

So we banning saved reviews for later posts like example “I got a bunch of reviews ready for the next TdV”? Difficult to catch but we good citizens of vizzed shall follow such guidelines.

tgags123 :