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07-03-15 06:34 PM
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Is there such a thing as privilege?

 

07-03-15 06:34 PM
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I don't know when the use of the expression started, but I personally find "check your privilege" not only annoying, but also very faulty.

It's faulty because privilege - which I define as a special right granted by authorities that can use coercion to protect it - isn't fairly rare in our societies. Granted, some people do have advantages over others. Having a white skin and being in a wealthy neighborhood makes one less likely to have trouble with the police for whatever reason. And yes, being wealthy grants a better head start for children than being raised in a family on welfare or with a parent in prison/simply absent.

However those advantages do NOT guarantee success in life. Thanks to charter schools, many low-income household children are having straight As thanks to teaching methods that are far superior to regular public schools'. Conversely, the offsprings of Bill Gates, just because of who their father is, are NOT guaranteed wealth and success unless they put their heart and mind into it. The same thing goes for people inheriting wealth; they need to use it wisely if they want not only to keep it, but to make it grow.

It's all about individual achievement. Yes, I am a white man (and gay), and yes I had it "easy" in school because our father wanted education to be our priority (it worked for me and my sister, but not so much for my brother). Nevertheless I still had to work very hard to succeed since I was bullied quite hard and, as calculus started being part of learning, I had to work excessively hard to get only average results.

If one wants to talk about privilege, then one has to look at government. Back at the height of the last economic crisis around 2008, many businesses received government (i.e. your tax dollar) funds so they wouldn't go bankrupt. And according to many reports I read, it was done quite arbitrarily, usually because government officials had a stake into it - Paulson had close ties to Goldman Sachs.

Also, although it's not formally codified into law, "liberals" (in the US sense) seem to be quite immuned from ostracizing. Just recently George Takei had quite a vitriolic critic of Justice Clarence Thomas, whom other "liberals" called Uncle Tom (a very racist remark). Imagine if ANY conservative had called Barack Obama Uncle Tom; he/she would have (almost literally) been crucified in the media as a blatant racist who hates America. The same thing goes for women; "no one" would have tolerated the vitriol Sarah Palin received (not that I like her) in 2008 if she had been a Democrat.

More anciently, privilege was quite obvious. Anyone within the good graces of the clergy or the monarchy/local lordship was basically immuned from hunger since they lived off the production of others thanks to the feudal system/tithes. In that era, being born in the right family DID make a difference since you had virtually no hope of improving your condition because of all the regulations in place.

In short, "check your privilege" would only apply if you get a government-granted (or de facto) privilege someone else cannot get automatically. Otherwise, you merely have an advantage and you need to work your buns off if you want to keep it. Dismissing one's achievements as "privilege" is an insult to their minds.

Did I get this right?
I don't know when the use of the expression started, but I personally find "check your privilege" not only annoying, but also very faulty.

It's faulty because privilege - which I define as a special right granted by authorities that can use coercion to protect it - isn't fairly rare in our societies. Granted, some people do have advantages over others. Having a white skin and being in a wealthy neighborhood makes one less likely to have trouble with the police for whatever reason. And yes, being wealthy grants a better head start for children than being raised in a family on welfare or with a parent in prison/simply absent.

However those advantages do NOT guarantee success in life. Thanks to charter schools, many low-income household children are having straight As thanks to teaching methods that are far superior to regular public schools'. Conversely, the offsprings of Bill Gates, just because of who their father is, are NOT guaranteed wealth and success unless they put their heart and mind into it. The same thing goes for people inheriting wealth; they need to use it wisely if they want not only to keep it, but to make it grow.

It's all about individual achievement. Yes, I am a white man (and gay), and yes I had it "easy" in school because our father wanted education to be our priority (it worked for me and my sister, but not so much for my brother). Nevertheless I still had to work very hard to succeed since I was bullied quite hard and, as calculus started being part of learning, I had to work excessively hard to get only average results.

If one wants to talk about privilege, then one has to look at government. Back at the height of the last economic crisis around 2008, many businesses received government (i.e. your tax dollar) funds so they wouldn't go bankrupt. And according to many reports I read, it was done quite arbitrarily, usually because government officials had a stake into it - Paulson had close ties to Goldman Sachs.

Also, although it's not formally codified into law, "liberals" (in the US sense) seem to be quite immuned from ostracizing. Just recently George Takei had quite a vitriolic critic of Justice Clarence Thomas, whom other "liberals" called Uncle Tom (a very racist remark). Imagine if ANY conservative had called Barack Obama Uncle Tom; he/she would have (almost literally) been crucified in the media as a blatant racist who hates America. The same thing goes for women; "no one" would have tolerated the vitriol Sarah Palin received (not that I like her) in 2008 if she had been a Democrat.

More anciently, privilege was quite obvious. Anyone within the good graces of the clergy or the monarchy/local lordship was basically immuned from hunger since they lived off the production of others thanks to the feudal system/tithes. In that era, being born in the right family DID make a difference since you had virtually no hope of improving your condition because of all the regulations in place.

In short, "check your privilege" would only apply if you get a government-granted (or de facto) privilege someone else cannot get automatically. Otherwise, you merely have an advantage and you need to work your buns off if you want to keep it. Dismissing one's achievements as "privilege" is an insult to their minds.

Did I get this right?
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07-04-15 10:14 PM
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janus : The phrase "democrat" has a positive connotation. To be a democrat means you care about people. Being a Republican means your a money grubber.
janus : The phrase "democrat" has a positive connotation. To be a democrat means you care about people. Being a Republican means your a money grubber.
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07-05-15 10:07 AM
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janus : You have very good points. I can tell this was a well thought out post that you were just dying to get off your chest.

You are right in that success is dependent on the minds of those who achieve it. You can't chalk up all of Bill Gates' success to privilege. 

However...

There are definitely some who have an easier path to success than others. Someone born into a financially struggling family may have to work very hard and aggressively to pursue their goals through great hardships to achieve success. Someone born into a very rich family could receive the very best in private tutoring, fitness coaching, and be able to simply pay for the best colleges (if they are accepted/have a prestigious last name).
   Now, this is a broad generalization used as an example this definitely does not apply to everyone.

I'm not saying that people from all walks of life can't achieve success, just that some have a much smoother path. That is what I would define as privilege.
janus : You have very good points. I can tell this was a well thought out post that you were just dying to get off your chest.

You are right in that success is dependent on the minds of those who achieve it. You can't chalk up all of Bill Gates' success to privilege. 

However...

There are definitely some who have an easier path to success than others. Someone born into a financially struggling family may have to work very hard and aggressively to pursue their goals through great hardships to achieve success. Someone born into a very rich family could receive the very best in private tutoring, fitness coaching, and be able to simply pay for the best colleges (if they are accepted/have a prestigious last name).
   Now, this is a broad generalization used as an example this definitely does not apply to everyone.

I'm not saying that people from all walks of life can't achieve success, just that some have a much smoother path. That is what I would define as privilege.
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(edited by epic-san on 07-05-15 10:07 AM)    

07-05-15 11:16 AM
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Txgangsta : Yeah, nothing says like caring about people than doing it at gunpoint. It's not like the Republicans are better, but the Democrats are especially bad. We are still suffering from Franklin Roosevelt's fascist programs like Social Security and Mae (Mac?), and Lyndon Johnson's Medicaid and Medicare will bankrupt this nation.

"caring" is what this country was all about before the "Progressives" came. Yes, there was poverty and misery - most of which can be linked to Jim Crow laws and other restrictions - but people took their destiny in their own hands and still managed to get by. Now, government perverts incentives so much that participation rates are at a 37-year low.

epic-san What you define as privilege is what I define as advantage. Yes, wealth and being born in the "right" family does give a head start, but it does NOT guarantee success. For every successful business you see, there are over 10 that failed.

And as I said, saying that someone's success is due to privilege - especially if that person did NOT receive government privileges - is an insult.
Txgangsta : Yeah, nothing says like caring about people than doing it at gunpoint. It's not like the Republicans are better, but the Democrats are especially bad. We are still suffering from Franklin Roosevelt's fascist programs like Social Security and Mae (Mac?), and Lyndon Johnson's Medicaid and Medicare will bankrupt this nation.

"caring" is what this country was all about before the "Progressives" came. Yes, there was poverty and misery - most of which can be linked to Jim Crow laws and other restrictions - but people took their destiny in their own hands and still managed to get by. Now, government perverts incentives so much that participation rates are at a 37-year low.

epic-san What you define as privilege is what I define as advantage. Yes, wealth and being born in the "right" family does give a head start, but it does NOT guarantee success. For every successful business you see, there are over 10 that failed.

And as I said, saying that someone's success is due to privilege - especially if that person did NOT receive government privileges - is an insult.
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07-06-15 12:15 AM
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More or less. There are definietly factors beyond our control that affect your chances as life such as how much money your family has. Being born into a poor or rich family can make a big difference.

Race can also play a part though I think it's less than that of your wealth. There are still parts of the world even in developed countries where people are prejudiced towards people of another skin colour and such, but blaming your lack of success purely on that is being deluded at best.

If you're determined enough there is (at least in 1st world countries) almost all way a way to success. If you work hard enough for it chances are you can achieve whatever job you may want to have in life.
More or less. There are definietly factors beyond our control that affect your chances as life such as how much money your family has. Being born into a poor or rich family can make a big difference.

Race can also play a part though I think it's less than that of your wealth. There are still parts of the world even in developed countries where people are prejudiced towards people of another skin colour and such, but blaming your lack of success purely on that is being deluded at best.

If you're determined enough there is (at least in 1st world countries) almost all way a way to success. If you work hard enough for it chances are you can achieve whatever job you may want to have in life.
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07-07-15 12:59 PM
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Zlinqx : Amen. As Ayn Rand puts it: "The question is not who is going to let me, but rather who is going to stop me?"

And most often times, government is the one stopping people. Just look at the recent California decision to make Uber contractors employees. Of COURSE it will benefit established cab drivers... at the expense of everyone else, who will have to pay more or use their cars to move around.
Zlinqx : Amen. As Ayn Rand puts it: "The question is not who is going to let me, but rather who is going to stop me?"

And most often times, government is the one stopping people. Just look at the recent California decision to make Uber contractors employees. Of COURSE it will benefit established cab drivers... at the expense of everyone else, who will have to pay more or use their cars to move around.
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