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Free Speech: To Limit or Not to Limit?

 

01-08-15 01:49 PM
janus is Offline
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In the wake of the terrorist attacks on Charlie Hebdo in France, there seems to be a renewed debate about free speech and its possible limitations.

I admit never have read Charlie, but from what I gathered they just target ANYTHING that's moving: Jews, Christians, Muslims, politicians, etc. They mock Jesus, rabbis, imams and just about anything that may stir up controversy.

Like this way of acting of not, this is what free speech is all about: talking about controversial subjects. Not so long ago, it was a crime to even
talk about subjects like homosexuality, pornography or even politics. People like John Locke, who are revered as prominent figures of classical liberalism, has to anonymously publish their works for fear of being detained.

Even today, (government) censorship is making a strong come back. In many countries, "hate" speech laws are limiting free speech more and more in the name of "not offending" people and/or their beliefs. This is outrageous; we've had the Enlightenment for a reason, which is to break those self-imposed barriers to the human mind. Going back to Inquisition-style censorship can only mean impending doom to civilization.

I'm not exaggerating. When coercion (or fear thereof) is looming around people saying the wrong words, we've taken a bullet train down the Road to Serfdom. Once it happens, only government-approved speech is aired, and we all know what happens when this goes on...

In short, if free speech is to be limited, it has to be so in the most limited way possible, I.e. when someone is explicitly threatening another's life or property. "Calls" to murder, while despicable, should not be included as the ultimate responsibility incurs to the person committing the act. Otherwise, the media can easily be blamed for anything...
In the wake of the terrorist attacks on Charlie Hebdo in France, there seems to be a renewed debate about free speech and its possible limitations.

I admit never have read Charlie, but from what I gathered they just target ANYTHING that's moving: Jews, Christians, Muslims, politicians, etc. They mock Jesus, rabbis, imams and just about anything that may stir up controversy.

Like this way of acting of not, this is what free speech is all about: talking about controversial subjects. Not so long ago, it was a crime to even
talk about subjects like homosexuality, pornography or even politics. People like John Locke, who are revered as prominent figures of classical liberalism, has to anonymously publish their works for fear of being detained.

Even today, (government) censorship is making a strong come back. In many countries, "hate" speech laws are limiting free speech more and more in the name of "not offending" people and/or their beliefs. This is outrageous; we've had the Enlightenment for a reason, which is to break those self-imposed barriers to the human mind. Going back to Inquisition-style censorship can only mean impending doom to civilization.

I'm not exaggerating. When coercion (or fear thereof) is looming around people saying the wrong words, we've taken a bullet train down the Road to Serfdom. Once it happens, only government-approved speech is aired, and we all know what happens when this goes on...

In short, if free speech is to be limited, it has to be so in the most limited way possible, I.e. when someone is explicitly threatening another's life or property. "Calls" to murder, while despicable, should not be included as the ultimate responsibility incurs to the person committing the act. Otherwise, the media can easily be blamed for anything...
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01-09-15 12:36 PM
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janus : Free speech seems kinda dead to my point, it's really like the more we go into time, the more limitations we have with "Free Speech", because you can't really talk about anything anymore, and sure, some lets us talk about one thing but won't allow us to speak about another thing and here in the United States, sure, you have a lot more freedoms to say on what you wish, but at the same time, you have a lot of limitation of what can be said though.

So, if the whole government censorship isn't really much of a good thing or a bad thing, I know a lot of people want to be free on what they want to say but at the same time, the people takes offence on what's being said. All I can say is to ignore all those negative sayings to those people and just move on rather than having the freedom of saying what we feel like saying away. So, for hate speech, sure, it's look down upon but I think yet, if the hate speech turns into violence, that's one thing, but just saying it, everyone says something negative about what they believe in. People are a little sensitive these days on what's said really anymore.
janus : Free speech seems kinda dead to my point, it's really like the more we go into time, the more limitations we have with "Free Speech", because you can't really talk about anything anymore, and sure, some lets us talk about one thing but won't allow us to speak about another thing and here in the United States, sure, you have a lot more freedoms to say on what you wish, but at the same time, you have a lot of limitation of what can be said though.

So, if the whole government censorship isn't really much of a good thing or a bad thing, I know a lot of people want to be free on what they want to say but at the same time, the people takes offence on what's being said. All I can say is to ignore all those negative sayings to those people and just move on rather than having the freedom of saying what we feel like saying away. So, for hate speech, sure, it's look down upon but I think yet, if the hate speech turns into violence, that's one thing, but just saying it, everyone says something negative about what they believe in. People are a little sensitive these days on what's said really anymore.
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02-12-15 10:32 AM
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Free speech should NEVER be limited! Through history people have fought, died, been imprisoned, and lived in fear for speaking their minds. Fighting for the freedom of speech so one day the common man can say what's on his mind without the police breaking his door down. We should honor the sacrificed thousands have made so that we can have what we deem today as a basic human right.
So what then? A bunch of crybabies get offended because we've "oppressed" and "triggered" them through our words? So what? Freedom of speech also means you must own up to what you say, and everyone else is free to voice their disagreements or agreements with you. The fact people are morons is a given, and they are trying to silence all of us. Unless we stand together and, using our freedom of speech, stop them.
Yes, there are uprisings in France over the death of a man by the hand of terrorists for insulting their religion. Freedom of speech does not equal freedom to murder. Their actions were despicable, and, if you ask me, that man wrote some awful things. He probably shouldn't have written many of the things he did. But, he had the right to. Murdering him, on the other hand, nobody has that right.

I for one refuse to live in a world where people go back to being oppressed, imprisoned, and maybe even put to death for what they say. Speaking openly against a government, having an unpopular opinion, or saying something that sounds crazy. Many people have fought for this freedom we have that is in jeopardy today. Sure, they may not have agreed with everything we believe, but they defended our right to say what we believe. We should look to their actions and ideas, and bring the importance of this freedom to everyone's attention.
Free speech should NEVER be limited! Through history people have fought, died, been imprisoned, and lived in fear for speaking their minds. Fighting for the freedom of speech so one day the common man can say what's on his mind without the police breaking his door down. We should honor the sacrificed thousands have made so that we can have what we deem today as a basic human right.
So what then? A bunch of crybabies get offended because we've "oppressed" and "triggered" them through our words? So what? Freedom of speech also means you must own up to what you say, and everyone else is free to voice their disagreements or agreements with you. The fact people are morons is a given, and they are trying to silence all of us. Unless we stand together and, using our freedom of speech, stop them.
Yes, there are uprisings in France over the death of a man by the hand of terrorists for insulting their religion. Freedom of speech does not equal freedom to murder. Their actions were despicable, and, if you ask me, that man wrote some awful things. He probably shouldn't have written many of the things he did. But, he had the right to. Murdering him, on the other hand, nobody has that right.

I for one refuse to live in a world where people go back to being oppressed, imprisoned, and maybe even put to death for what they say. Speaking openly against a government, having an unpopular opinion, or saying something that sounds crazy. Many people have fought for this freedom we have that is in jeopardy today. Sure, they may not have agreed with everything we believe, but they defended our right to say what we believe. We should look to their actions and ideas, and bring the importance of this freedom to everyone's attention.
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02-12-15 10:57 AM
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People getting offended is a consequence of freedom of speech.  Everything can in some way be interpreted as offensive to someone. By that logic we shouldn't have any movies, art or litterature at all.

So who has the right to deem what is okay and what isn't okay to say? The majority? The majority isn't always right. The majority of the german population supported hitler during ww2 in his pursuit to "create a better world" yet you don't see many people agreeing with what he did today.

A problem doesn't go away just because you aren't allowed to talk about it. Limiting freedom of speech is what makes a country go from being a democracy to a dictatorship. First you aren't allowed to draw pictures of said prophet within a certain religion then you aren't allowed to talk negatively about said prophet or later the religion at all because that too can be deemed "offensive".

Sure I don't have to draw a picture of a certain prophet but I should be able to do so if I wish. Why should I have to adjust to the rules of a religion I do not choose to follow?
People getting offended is a consequence of freedom of speech.  Everything can in some way be interpreted as offensive to someone. By that logic we shouldn't have any movies, art or litterature at all.

So who has the right to deem what is okay and what isn't okay to say? The majority? The majority isn't always right. The majority of the german population supported hitler during ww2 in his pursuit to "create a better world" yet you don't see many people agreeing with what he did today.

A problem doesn't go away just because you aren't allowed to talk about it. Limiting freedom of speech is what makes a country go from being a democracy to a dictatorship. First you aren't allowed to draw pictures of said prophet within a certain religion then you aren't allowed to talk negatively about said prophet or later the religion at all because that too can be deemed "offensive".

Sure I don't have to draw a picture of a certain prophet but I should be able to do so if I wish. Why should I have to adjust to the rules of a religion I do not choose to follow?
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(edited by Zlinqx on 02-12-15 12:26 PM)    

02-12-15 10:59 AM
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Freedom of speech I would have to say is essential in any society. Without being able to express in communication how we may actually feel, what our ideas may be, and so on we unfortunately miss the overall point of the said thing as it is "limited". While I believe limitations are important we should be taught to learn how we can limit ourselves from going overboard so to speak rather than a group of authoritative people enforcing a collective belief that is allegedly valid because law. I for one am willing to fight for freedom of speech and I'm sure there are others who are in that as well. 
Freedom of speech I would have to say is essential in any society. Without being able to express in communication how we may actually feel, what our ideas may be, and so on we unfortunately miss the overall point of the said thing as it is "limited". While I believe limitations are important we should be taught to learn how we can limit ourselves from going overboard so to speak rather than a group of authoritative people enforcing a collective belief that is allegedly valid because law. I for one am willing to fight for freedom of speech and I'm sure there are others who are in that as well. 
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02-12-15 11:46 AM
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Like A user of this said, I simply refuse to live in a world in which I am unable to speak my mind.

If we didn't have freedom of speech, then, no offense, but a lot of the witty, comedic movies and comic strips that make me laugh today wouldn't exist.



I'm not the kind of person who would draw a picture or anything mocking a religion or culture since I like to avoid controversial stuff, but I don't think anyone should stop me if I decide to one day.

I'm okay with people's opinions, even if they believe that my opinions, my beliefs, my country, or even my hairstyle are stupid. As long as they don't force them onto me, I have no problem with them whatsoever.

Frankly, I don't take offense at much, even when it ridicules something to do with me.

I have to point out, though, that openly making fun of other people's beliefs about life is serious, and I understand those who are hurt by it.

As for those who would
kill as a result?

I find that absolutely disgusting. It's just horrible. We need to stop these people, however, and we cannot let them take away the freedom that we should all have.

The murderers of the Charlie Hebdo people... They obviously have no respect for freedom of speech at all, but keep in mind that those idiots do not represent everyone who is offended by such things. Some people (the sane ones) will either be quiet or simply talk back politely, stating how and why they were hurt.

I do not think there should be severe limitations on freedom of speech, but when
threats come into place, it has to stop. Whatever was said or written must stay on paper or on the internet. 

I will fight for my right to say what I want, and I know there are people who either have already joined me unknowingly or definitely would if I asked them to.

People are going to get offended. It's inevitable. I'm a Muslim, I was never offended by the Charlie Hebdo comics, and my current favorite movie literally makes fun of Muslims throughout the whole thing, and I found it the most hilarious thing ever. Seriously, it's a great movie.

Anyway...

My point? Forcing us to keep our mouths shut is like forbidding us from going to a supermarket. We have the right to shop without stealing, so we must also have the right to speak without threatening.

No freedom of speech? There goes more than half of the world's greatest pieces of literature ever :V.
Like A user of this said, I simply refuse to live in a world in which I am unable to speak my mind.

If we didn't have freedom of speech, then, no offense, but a lot of the witty, comedic movies and comic strips that make me laugh today wouldn't exist.



I'm not the kind of person who would draw a picture or anything mocking a religion or culture since I like to avoid controversial stuff, but I don't think anyone should stop me if I decide to one day.

I'm okay with people's opinions, even if they believe that my opinions, my beliefs, my country, or even my hairstyle are stupid. As long as they don't force them onto me, I have no problem with them whatsoever.

Frankly, I don't take offense at much, even when it ridicules something to do with me.

I have to point out, though, that openly making fun of other people's beliefs about life is serious, and I understand those who are hurt by it.

As for those who would
kill as a result?

I find that absolutely disgusting. It's just horrible. We need to stop these people, however, and we cannot let them take away the freedom that we should all have.

The murderers of the Charlie Hebdo people... They obviously have no respect for freedom of speech at all, but keep in mind that those idiots do not represent everyone who is offended by such things. Some people (the sane ones) will either be quiet or simply talk back politely, stating how and why they were hurt.

I do not think there should be severe limitations on freedom of speech, but when
threats come into place, it has to stop. Whatever was said or written must stay on paper or on the internet. 

I will fight for my right to say what I want, and I know there are people who either have already joined me unknowingly or definitely would if I asked them to.

People are going to get offended. It's inevitable. I'm a Muslim, I was never offended by the Charlie Hebdo comics, and my current favorite movie literally makes fun of Muslims throughout the whole thing, and I found it the most hilarious thing ever. Seriously, it's a great movie.

Anyway...

My point? Forcing us to keep our mouths shut is like forbidding us from going to a supermarket. We have the right to shop without stealing, so we must also have the right to speak without threatening.

No freedom of speech? There goes more than half of the world's greatest pieces of literature ever :V.
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02-12-15 11:51 AM
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We tend to dwell so much on "is this constitutional", and not on the reasons behind the rules. Free speech was implemented with the expectation that people would rely on their conscience and make informed decisions. These days, things have gotten so out of control. I'm not sure that limiting free speech is the solution. But think about how much words CAN hurt people. Due to our tendency to make false judgments, libel and false speaking can affect us, if we let it. Critical campaign ads can affect our opinion of candidates, and even lead us to hate them. Skewed articles may present an opinion that is not true.

My opinion is that free speech should be available to everyone. But if they say something that harms someone, there may be need for punishment, albeit not of a harsh variety, unless necessary. Perhaps a simple rebuke would do. Perhaps they would lose their job. If someone said "I'm going to kill my mother" or "I'm going to kidnap so and so", then there might be reason to put them in jail or in the hospital. But I am not sure the expression itself is ever reason enough, unless they begin to initiate dangerous actions. I do not mean that I do not want those people protected. I do. But people do things for many reasons. That person may have a mental illness. They may have been dared to do that by a "friend". There may be yet other reasons for the action.

Also, imagine the following scenario: Escaping refugees (including myself) are contained within a bunker, but a child among us is very loud. I would not enjoy silencing this child in the least. I would pray for a miracle. But if God would not provide one, then it would likely be better for the child to be silenced than for all of us to die.

Understanding is absolutely vital in this world and in any world. If we have not understanding, we may cause harm to ourselves and others. The desire to understand others should be one of our greatest pursuits in this life. If this understanding is used in a good manner, it will cast away doubt, frustration, and even unhappiness itself.
We tend to dwell so much on "is this constitutional", and not on the reasons behind the rules. Free speech was implemented with the expectation that people would rely on their conscience and make informed decisions. These days, things have gotten so out of control. I'm not sure that limiting free speech is the solution. But think about how much words CAN hurt people. Due to our tendency to make false judgments, libel and false speaking can affect us, if we let it. Critical campaign ads can affect our opinion of candidates, and even lead us to hate them. Skewed articles may present an opinion that is not true.

My opinion is that free speech should be available to everyone. But if they say something that harms someone, there may be need for punishment, albeit not of a harsh variety, unless necessary. Perhaps a simple rebuke would do. Perhaps they would lose their job. If someone said "I'm going to kill my mother" or "I'm going to kidnap so and so", then there might be reason to put them in jail or in the hospital. But I am not sure the expression itself is ever reason enough, unless they begin to initiate dangerous actions. I do not mean that I do not want those people protected. I do. But people do things for many reasons. That person may have a mental illness. They may have been dared to do that by a "friend". There may be yet other reasons for the action.

Also, imagine the following scenario: Escaping refugees (including myself) are contained within a bunker, but a child among us is very loud. I would not enjoy silencing this child in the least. I would pray for a miracle. But if God would not provide one, then it would likely be better for the child to be silenced than for all of us to die.

Understanding is absolutely vital in this world and in any world. If we have not understanding, we may cause harm to ourselves and others. The desire to understand others should be one of our greatest pursuits in this life. If this understanding is used in a good manner, it will cast away doubt, frustration, and even unhappiness itself.
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(edited by supernerd117 on 02-12-15 11:52 AM)    

02-12-15 05:54 PM
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Never should we limit it. Anyone should be allowed to say what they please, their opinions, as long it's just that, saying something. When someone attacks, insults or physically agitates with "Free Speech", that's where the problem begins. Something I've noticed is people are becoming more sensitive. Or overly-sensitive people are getting a bigger voice. Either way, some stuff we say seems limited, because it's "Offensive to them", which is dumb. It's literally the exact thing of free speech.

On the other hand, we should limit who we listen to. Like I said before, don't take in every opinion you find like it's some sort of new religion. Listen to the intelligent, the wise, the ones who know what they are talking about. Someone who makes sense.
Never should we limit it. Anyone should be allowed to say what they please, their opinions, as long it's just that, saying something. When someone attacks, insults or physically agitates with "Free Speech", that's where the problem begins. Something I've noticed is people are becoming more sensitive. Or overly-sensitive people are getting a bigger voice. Either way, some stuff we say seems limited, because it's "Offensive to them", which is dumb. It's literally the exact thing of free speech.

On the other hand, we should limit who we listen to. Like I said before, don't take in every opinion you find like it's some sort of new religion. Listen to the intelligent, the wise, the ones who know what they are talking about. Someone who makes sense.
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02-12-15 08:14 PM
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There's a difference between freedom of speech and communicating hate crimes.  You can't yell, "FIRE" in a crowded movie theater, for example, and it is not a limit to freedom of speech to have that rule.

Speech and thoughts and ideas should not be limited.  That's why things like the internet are limited in some countries like China and North Korea.  Ideas are the most dangerous things out there, especially when provided to a large mass of people.  Literacy is equally dangerous and history has shown us that ruling classes go out of their way to keep the lower castes and classes out of their way.

People do have to accept consequences of their actions and their voice.  Freedom isn't free and if you are going to tell others your beliefs, be prepared to face their opinions.  Murder is never the right answer but as shown by Hebdo, it can happen.
There's a difference between freedom of speech and communicating hate crimes.  You can't yell, "FIRE" in a crowded movie theater, for example, and it is not a limit to freedom of speech to have that rule.

Speech and thoughts and ideas should not be limited.  That's why things like the internet are limited in some countries like China and North Korea.  Ideas are the most dangerous things out there, especially when provided to a large mass of people.  Literacy is equally dangerous and history has shown us that ruling classes go out of their way to keep the lower castes and classes out of their way.

People do have to accept consequences of their actions and their voice.  Freedom isn't free and if you are going to tell others your beliefs, be prepared to face their opinions.  Murder is never the right answer but as shown by Hebdo, it can happen.
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