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Israel's current war
So...do you think we should be there? Should it be stopped?
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Titan127
08-02-14 09:12 PM
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08-03-14 06:37 AM
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Israel's current war

 

08-02-14 09:12 PM
Titan127 is Offline
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This is to debate whether or not Israel should have attacked Gaza, and to state your opinions of this war. I understand that this is a touchy subject for many peoples who I will bring up in my argument but if this was supposed to be avoided then there shouldn't be a politics sun-forum.
First off, if anyone brings up a cease fire I will find out how to summon a lesser demon to sic on them. I have my ways. There were two cease fires before the current war, and Hamas accepted both of them, yet never stopped firing missiles of which were, by mass majority, intercepted by Iron Dome rockets. Unfortunately Hamas dug dozens if not hundreds and possibly thousands of tunnels underground. They send people in and Israelis die. Israels's government warned Hamas, and they did not listen. This had to be done.
Now to address casualties. Both sides have had a fairly low number of MILITARY casualties, but what of civilians?
Hamas killed 29 people with it's rockets, and has injured THOUSANDS. Think about that for a moment. I want you to really think about that. Most middle schools don't have 2000 kids. Just putting that in perspective for you. 70% of Israelis have been mentally damaged or stressed by these attacks. Israel has killed 1000 civilians in Gaza. A huge number. Massive, not that I care. Do you know what the adults do? Kill each other, fight over dirty, STD-infested water, and hate Israel and all Jews in general. They hate them, plain and simple. They deserve to die. Israel has taken so much damage, so many attacks for years and years and years, and then Hamas stole three children and tortured them to death. They sent pictures to the government. Do you have siblings? Freinds? Cousins? Maybe a girlfriend/boyfreind? Picture them being taken by..,let's say Canada(Don't get me wrong, I love Canada) and water boarded, fingers smashed, and in other ways tortured them, slowly, painfully, until their screams were silenced. There is a point where people just cannot take it anymore.
And another thing with the civilian toll, Hamas is using them as meat shields. That government must be broken. Israel has to balance the lives of its people and those of slaves. Do you know what our president does? He calls for a cease fire, between his golfing, birthday cake shopping, and joking around, that Hamas will accept, ignore, and continue to weaken Israel.
In Germany, people have the utter gall to claim that Israel is the equivalent of a second Nazi regime. Do you know which of these governments took what, 6 million Jews and gassed them or starved them to death? Did you know that the founder of the Hamas government conspired with Adolfo Hitler, and that once Europe was under Nazi control, they planned to wipe them out in the Middle East? I've got a lot more crap floating around in my head about this that I cannot grasp.
If you want to argue, let's go. If you want to agree, please post anyways because I need to know that there is some good left in the world. I am not claiming that if you disagree you are evil, but you know...
This is to debate whether or not Israel should have attacked Gaza, and to state your opinions of this war. I understand that this is a touchy subject for many peoples who I will bring up in my argument but if this was supposed to be avoided then there shouldn't be a politics sun-forum.
First off, if anyone brings up a cease fire I will find out how to summon a lesser demon to sic on them. I have my ways. There were two cease fires before the current war, and Hamas accepted both of them, yet never stopped firing missiles of which were, by mass majority, intercepted by Iron Dome rockets. Unfortunately Hamas dug dozens if not hundreds and possibly thousands of tunnels underground. They send people in and Israelis die. Israels's government warned Hamas, and they did not listen. This had to be done.
Now to address casualties. Both sides have had a fairly low number of MILITARY casualties, but what of civilians?
Hamas killed 29 people with it's rockets, and has injured THOUSANDS. Think about that for a moment. I want you to really think about that. Most middle schools don't have 2000 kids. Just putting that in perspective for you. 70% of Israelis have been mentally damaged or stressed by these attacks. Israel has killed 1000 civilians in Gaza. A huge number. Massive, not that I care. Do you know what the adults do? Kill each other, fight over dirty, STD-infested water, and hate Israel and all Jews in general. They hate them, plain and simple. They deserve to die. Israel has taken so much damage, so many attacks for years and years and years, and then Hamas stole three children and tortured them to death. They sent pictures to the government. Do you have siblings? Freinds? Cousins? Maybe a girlfriend/boyfreind? Picture them being taken by..,let's say Canada(Don't get me wrong, I love Canada) and water boarded, fingers smashed, and in other ways tortured them, slowly, painfully, until their screams were silenced. There is a point where people just cannot take it anymore.
And another thing with the civilian toll, Hamas is using them as meat shields. That government must be broken. Israel has to balance the lives of its people and those of slaves. Do you know what our president does? He calls for a cease fire, between his golfing, birthday cake shopping, and joking around, that Hamas will accept, ignore, and continue to weaken Israel.
In Germany, people have the utter gall to claim that Israel is the equivalent of a second Nazi regime. Do you know which of these governments took what, 6 million Jews and gassed them or starved them to death? Did you know that the founder of the Hamas government conspired with Adolfo Hitler, and that once Europe was under Nazi control, they planned to wipe them out in the Middle East? I've got a lot more crap floating around in my head about this that I cannot grasp.
If you want to argue, let's go. If you want to agree, please post anyways because I need to know that there is some good left in the world. I am not claiming that if you disagree you are evil, but you know...
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08-03-14 02:12 AM
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Sadly, I don't know enough about the situation to have an educated opinion on the manner. All I seem to hear are two very opposite opinions, but I'm having trouble finding concrete facts.

One side is strongly pro-Israel and believes the US needs to step in and ensure that Israel is not wiped out by Muslim terrorists. A lot of this comes from the major mainstream media, most of it conservative, but even some liberal sources have this view, which I find odd. About a week ago, on my 35-mile drive to work, my smart phone was dead because I forgot to plug it in the previous night, so I couldn't use Pandora, and FM radio had nothing but garbage on, so I switched to the AM band and it was set on a news/talk station; I probably left it there several months ago when I last listened to AM radio. Glenn Beck happened to be on the mic, talking about the conflict, and he kept labeling the Palestinians as "terrified", and saying that "off the record, the Palestinians will tell you that they love Israel, and if something were to happen to Israel, they'd be back with 'those monsters' again". He also said that "no one likes the Palestinians, not Israel, and not Hamas".

The other opinion, which I hear significantly less often (possibly because I live in the US), and almost exclusively through the internet (Facebook, Reddit, Twitter, and some strongly liberal online news outlets), is that the Palestinians were upset because the Israeli Jews basically came in and "took their land" after the end of World War II in the late 1940s. This opinion states that Palestinians have been treated like second-class citizens since the Israeli Jews moved in more than half a century ago.

The facts that I know are that the current state known as Israel was created shortly after World War II as a home for displaced Jews in Europe who were kicked out of Germany, Austria, Poland, and other places. The land that was set up for them is considered the "holy land" for Jews, but also such for the Palestinians. This conflict has been going on for more than half a century, and it has reached a boiling point several times in the last few decades The conflict we have now is NOT the first time that there have been mass casualties between Israel and its enemies. The US has been trying to bring peace to the region since the early 1990s, but we've probably done more harm than good.

Now, my personal opinion is that we don't have to play hero or play world police. We should let other countries sort out their differences alone. Yes, there will be casualties, but let's not have any casualties in our own civilians and military by getting involved, okay? Most of this country stands with Israel, and we have given an
obscene amount of military equipment to the Israelis, which is an act of raw stupidity in my opinion. We are partially to blame for Israel having nuclear weapons. Not only does the US need to leave Israel, but the British do as well. The British could be blamed for starting this entire mess, going as far back as the British Mandate of Palestine of 1920. Let them sort their own problems out. They've been able to settle things without international interference since the Bronze Age, I'm sure they'll find a way to eventually come to peace here in the 21st century.

To answer your question as to whether or not Israel should have attacked Gaza, I would say that they were right in doing so. Their country was under attack, so they were acting in defense. Of course, their aim should have been to minimize civilian deaths on both sides, and whether or not they accomplished this is debatable.

In the future, I will do my best to find more facts about the war, but right now all I've really got is Wikipedia. It seems just about everywhere I look for news and information on this matter is biased, usually in a pro-Israeli sense.
Sadly, I don't know enough about the situation to have an educated opinion on the manner. All I seem to hear are two very opposite opinions, but I'm having trouble finding concrete facts.

One side is strongly pro-Israel and believes the US needs to step in and ensure that Israel is not wiped out by Muslim terrorists. A lot of this comes from the major mainstream media, most of it conservative, but even some liberal sources have this view, which I find odd. About a week ago, on my 35-mile drive to work, my smart phone was dead because I forgot to plug it in the previous night, so I couldn't use Pandora, and FM radio had nothing but garbage on, so I switched to the AM band and it was set on a news/talk station; I probably left it there several months ago when I last listened to AM radio. Glenn Beck happened to be on the mic, talking about the conflict, and he kept labeling the Palestinians as "terrified", and saying that "off the record, the Palestinians will tell you that they love Israel, and if something were to happen to Israel, they'd be back with 'those monsters' again". He also said that "no one likes the Palestinians, not Israel, and not Hamas".

The other opinion, which I hear significantly less often (possibly because I live in the US), and almost exclusively through the internet (Facebook, Reddit, Twitter, and some strongly liberal online news outlets), is that the Palestinians were upset because the Israeli Jews basically came in and "took their land" after the end of World War II in the late 1940s. This opinion states that Palestinians have been treated like second-class citizens since the Israeli Jews moved in more than half a century ago.

The facts that I know are that the current state known as Israel was created shortly after World War II as a home for displaced Jews in Europe who were kicked out of Germany, Austria, Poland, and other places. The land that was set up for them is considered the "holy land" for Jews, but also such for the Palestinians. This conflict has been going on for more than half a century, and it has reached a boiling point several times in the last few decades The conflict we have now is NOT the first time that there have been mass casualties between Israel and its enemies. The US has been trying to bring peace to the region since the early 1990s, but we've probably done more harm than good.

Now, my personal opinion is that we don't have to play hero or play world police. We should let other countries sort out their differences alone. Yes, there will be casualties, but let's not have any casualties in our own civilians and military by getting involved, okay? Most of this country stands with Israel, and we have given an
obscene amount of military equipment to the Israelis, which is an act of raw stupidity in my opinion. We are partially to blame for Israel having nuclear weapons. Not only does the US need to leave Israel, but the British do as well. The British could be blamed for starting this entire mess, going as far back as the British Mandate of Palestine of 1920. Let them sort their own problems out. They've been able to settle things without international interference since the Bronze Age, I'm sure they'll find a way to eventually come to peace here in the 21st century.

To answer your question as to whether or not Israel should have attacked Gaza, I would say that they were right in doing so. Their country was under attack, so they were acting in defense. Of course, their aim should have been to minimize civilian deaths on both sides, and whether or not they accomplished this is debatable.

In the future, I will do my best to find more facts about the war, but right now all I've really got is Wikipedia. It seems just about everywhere I look for news and information on this matter is biased, usually in a pro-Israeli sense.
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08-03-14 06:37 AM
thenumberone is Offline
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Local Mods :
Theres already a thread about this in the debate forum:
https://www.vizzed.com/boards/thread.php?id=77858

@titan.
Iv already stated my opinion in the other thread, but feel I should state how wrong what you are saying is.

"Hamas killed 29 people with it's rockets, and has injured THOUSANDS. Think about that for a moment. I want you to really think about that. Most middle schools don't have 2000 kids. Just putting that in perspective for you. 70% of Israelis have been mentally damaged or stressed by these attacks. Israel has killed 1000 civilians in Gaza. A huge number. Massive, not that I care. "

"Not that I care". Wow, you're bias here is extraordinary. Create a scene of horror for Israeli injuries, but to hell with muslim dead. You are a real nice guy, you know that?

"Do you know what the adults do? Kill each other, fight over dirty, STD-infested water, and hate Israel and all Jews in general. They hate them, plain and simple. They deserve to die."

Do you know what you do? Generalise. Generalise an entire religious group and propose killing them all off. Can you think of any moustached evil man that has tried that before?

"Israel has taken so much damage, so many attacks for years and years and years, and then Hamas stole three children and tortured them to death"
They were aged 19,16 and 16, dont oversell the age. That being said Israelis retaliated by kidnapping an arab 'kid'. Who they brutaly killed. Perhaps if you are 'debating' you shouldnt skip these things?

"Israel has to balance the lives of its people and those of slaves."
Slaves,nice.

"In Germany, people have the utter gall to claim that Israel is the equivalent of a second Nazi regime. Do you know which of these governments took what, 6 million Jews and gassed them or starved them to death?"
Wow, because a nation is the origin of something bad, none of its descendents can criticise it? Flawless logic. Of course you're nation is shiny perfect.
You are, utterly, a racist, of the worst caliber.
your concern for not killing people on religious grounds is admirable though. Oh, wait
"They deserve to die". I forgot about that. Double standards on show.

If you want to use the debate forum I suggest you stop making racist accusations or you will undoubtably end up banned.
Local Mods :
Theres already a thread about this in the debate forum:
https://www.vizzed.com/boards/thread.php?id=77858

@titan.
Iv already stated my opinion in the other thread, but feel I should state how wrong what you are saying is.

"Hamas killed 29 people with it's rockets, and has injured THOUSANDS. Think about that for a moment. I want you to really think about that. Most middle schools don't have 2000 kids. Just putting that in perspective for you. 70% of Israelis have been mentally damaged or stressed by these attacks. Israel has killed 1000 civilians in Gaza. A huge number. Massive, not that I care. "

"Not that I care". Wow, you're bias here is extraordinary. Create a scene of horror for Israeli injuries, but to hell with muslim dead. You are a real nice guy, you know that?

"Do you know what the adults do? Kill each other, fight over dirty, STD-infested water, and hate Israel and all Jews in general. They hate them, plain and simple. They deserve to die."

Do you know what you do? Generalise. Generalise an entire religious group and propose killing them all off. Can you think of any moustached evil man that has tried that before?

"Israel has taken so much damage, so many attacks for years and years and years, and then Hamas stole three children and tortured them to death"
They were aged 19,16 and 16, dont oversell the age. That being said Israelis retaliated by kidnapping an arab 'kid'. Who they brutaly killed. Perhaps if you are 'debating' you shouldnt skip these things?

"Israel has to balance the lives of its people and those of slaves."
Slaves,nice.

"In Germany, people have the utter gall to claim that Israel is the equivalent of a second Nazi regime. Do you know which of these governments took what, 6 million Jews and gassed them or starved them to death?"
Wow, because a nation is the origin of something bad, none of its descendents can criticise it? Flawless logic. Of course you're nation is shiny perfect.
You are, utterly, a racist, of the worst caliber.
your concern for not killing people on religious grounds is admirable though. Oh, wait
"They deserve to die". I forgot about that. Double standards on show.

If you want to use the debate forum I suggest you stop making racist accusations or you will undoubtably end up banned.
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