Remove Ad, Sign Up
Register to Remove Ad
Register to Remove Ad
Remove Ad, Sign Up
Register to Remove Ad
Register to Remove Ad
Signup for Free!
-More Features-
-Far Less Ads-
About   Users   Help
Users & Guests Online
On Page: 1
Directory: 1 & 97
Entire Site: 11 & 879
Page Staff: pennylessz, pokemon x, Barathemos, tgags123, alexanyways, supercool22, RavusRat,
03-28-24 09:07 PM

Forum Links

Thread Information

Views
918
Replies
6
Rating
0
Status
CLOSED
Thread
Creator
relinquish022
07-06-14 02:16 PM
Last
Post
thing1
07-22-14 09:48 PM
Additional Thread Details
Views: 299
Today: 0
Users: 0 unique

Thread Actions

Thread Closed
New Thread
New Poll
Order
 

Do comics and manga take less "Skill" to make then novels?

 

07-06-14 02:16 PM
relinquish022 is Offline
| ID: 1046139 | 826 Words

relinquish022
Level: 45


POSTS: 372/470
POST EXP: 254542
LVL EXP: 638373
CP: 2247.5
VIZ: 202686

Likes: 0  Dislikes: 0
Alright uh..For those who don't know there has been a bit of controversy.And by controversy,i mean people slamming there fingers on forums and message boards,but onto the point.There has been a bit of an argument going on that comics and manga take less skill to create.And by create i don't mean literally making the book,as that usually requires a machine anyway.I mean making a book in the sense of.

Creating a story.
Making characters.
Crafting dialogue.
And other things that creating a story in a "3X structure" Would require.

Now why are some people saying this? Well basically the argument is in novels,you have to tell a story,not show a story.

Basically the argument is that because we use pictures as a medium,and as a means to tell a story,it makes us a bit more lazy,and takes less thought to make.You don't have to tell an action,you have to show it.

Also,there is another argument that comics and manga don't tell that much of a compelling story,and they cannot be complicated to the point where it really makes you think-

I'm sorry,but i cannot finish that sentence.

This is one of the stupidest things i have ever heard.I cannot take when people underestimate a medium,just because it has a different way of telling a story,and it annoys me to no end.

If people really think that manga and comics cannot tell a compelling story,with very well crafted characters,and very good writing..Well i could give you a list of stuff.But i'll try to focus on the first problem i have.

1.Manga and comics are lazy because they can show a story,not tell and there mostly just pictures:

This one pisses me off the most.Do you know how much time and effort has to go in to creating a single volume of a manga? or a single issue of a comic?

Yes,we are a visual medium.But we also use dialogue as well.Sort of 50% pictures,and 50% words.

And still,do you really think drawing so much of this stuff is easy? 80% of comics are hand drawn,aka.Not used by a computer (Not that there is anything wrong about that)

And 90% of manga are hand drawn.You know those pages that you can read and look at in 10-15 seconds,that takes about 30 minutes-2 hours to draw.

Let me give you an example.I have Naruto Volume 61 in my hand,and this manga is by one of my favorites,Massashi Kishimoto.Now (imo) Naruto is a fairly decent series,its has its flaws.But its overall enjoyable.But that is not the point.If you look on the bottom left of the cover,you will see that the story and art is by Massashi Kishimoto.Now let me just put in that into your head.

Story,and art..Do you know how long that takes.Granted the story of Naruto is not that complicated,but just think about that.

I remember i watched an interview about him in 2012,and he said that it takes about 20-23 days to make one volume..These are out monthly,that is insane.And don't think i'm leaving you comic book guys out either.

In my hand i have Spawn issues 1-6

Spawn is one of my favorites anti heroes..In fact,i think he is my favorite anti hero.Anyway.These issues are done by 11 people.And be aware,they don't just have to draw them like in manga,they have to color them as well (Although manga technically does use coloring in a different style and sense)

These once again released monthly (Back in the good ole 90's that is)

These take so much time,and so much effort.You should not just rule them out because they have a different way of telling a story.That is ignorant beyond belief.And it frankly just pisses me off.I may not be an artist,but i know how hard it is to draw just one page of this stuff.


2.Manga and comics often don't tell a compelling story: *Facepalm*

I don't even have to try with this one,because this argument has been played out to death.I will give you 10 manga that,while not 100% perfect,are still something interesting that you should take a look at.

10 manga

Hellsing
Last 5 volumes of soul eater.
Uzumaki
Death Note
Code Geass
Monster (By Naoki Urasawa)
Steins gate
Full metal alchemist (Last 10 volumes especially)
Attack on titan (I will give you this though,the manga is draw horribly.)
Um..Hmm..Fine,we will put  Btoom manga there.

Now let me give you 10 comic volumes.

Batman-Court of Owls.
Spawn (Some issues are silly,but most are dark and compelling)
All star Superman
Young justice
Justice League-Tower Of Babel
Ultimate Spiderman
Severed (My god..Don't read that on Halloween)
30 Days of night.
Starman
Birds of prey.

You cannot tell me that you don't give something out of at least 1 of these issues,or volumes.

Other than that,i am basically out of stuff to spew.Why don't you guys tell me what you think about this little..I'm even going to call it controversy anymore,this argument has been played out to death.
Alright uh..For those who don't know there has been a bit of controversy.And by controversy,i mean people slamming there fingers on forums and message boards,but onto the point.There has been a bit of an argument going on that comics and manga take less skill to create.And by create i don't mean literally making the book,as that usually requires a machine anyway.I mean making a book in the sense of.

Creating a story.
Making characters.
Crafting dialogue.
And other things that creating a story in a "3X structure" Would require.

Now why are some people saying this? Well basically the argument is in novels,you have to tell a story,not show a story.

Basically the argument is that because we use pictures as a medium,and as a means to tell a story,it makes us a bit more lazy,and takes less thought to make.You don't have to tell an action,you have to show it.

Also,there is another argument that comics and manga don't tell that much of a compelling story,and they cannot be complicated to the point where it really makes you think-

I'm sorry,but i cannot finish that sentence.

This is one of the stupidest things i have ever heard.I cannot take when people underestimate a medium,just because it has a different way of telling a story,and it annoys me to no end.

If people really think that manga and comics cannot tell a compelling story,with very well crafted characters,and very good writing..Well i could give you a list of stuff.But i'll try to focus on the first problem i have.

1.Manga and comics are lazy because they can show a story,not tell and there mostly just pictures:

This one pisses me off the most.Do you know how much time and effort has to go in to creating a single volume of a manga? or a single issue of a comic?

Yes,we are a visual medium.But we also use dialogue as well.Sort of 50% pictures,and 50% words.

And still,do you really think drawing so much of this stuff is easy? 80% of comics are hand drawn,aka.Not used by a computer (Not that there is anything wrong about that)

And 90% of manga are hand drawn.You know those pages that you can read and look at in 10-15 seconds,that takes about 30 minutes-2 hours to draw.

Let me give you an example.I have Naruto Volume 61 in my hand,and this manga is by one of my favorites,Massashi Kishimoto.Now (imo) Naruto is a fairly decent series,its has its flaws.But its overall enjoyable.But that is not the point.If you look on the bottom left of the cover,you will see that the story and art is by Massashi Kishimoto.Now let me just put in that into your head.

Story,and art..Do you know how long that takes.Granted the story of Naruto is not that complicated,but just think about that.

I remember i watched an interview about him in 2012,and he said that it takes about 20-23 days to make one volume..These are out monthly,that is insane.And don't think i'm leaving you comic book guys out either.

In my hand i have Spawn issues 1-6

Spawn is one of my favorites anti heroes..In fact,i think he is my favorite anti hero.Anyway.These issues are done by 11 people.And be aware,they don't just have to draw them like in manga,they have to color them as well (Although manga technically does use coloring in a different style and sense)

These once again released monthly (Back in the good ole 90's that is)

These take so much time,and so much effort.You should not just rule them out because they have a different way of telling a story.That is ignorant beyond belief.And it frankly just pisses me off.I may not be an artist,but i know how hard it is to draw just one page of this stuff.


2.Manga and comics often don't tell a compelling story: *Facepalm*

I don't even have to try with this one,because this argument has been played out to death.I will give you 10 manga that,while not 100% perfect,are still something interesting that you should take a look at.

10 manga

Hellsing
Last 5 volumes of soul eater.
Uzumaki
Death Note
Code Geass
Monster (By Naoki Urasawa)
Steins gate
Full metal alchemist (Last 10 volumes especially)
Attack on titan (I will give you this though,the manga is draw horribly.)
Um..Hmm..Fine,we will put  Btoom manga there.

Now let me give you 10 comic volumes.

Batman-Court of Owls.
Spawn (Some issues are silly,but most are dark and compelling)
All star Superman
Young justice
Justice League-Tower Of Babel
Ultimate Spiderman
Severed (My god..Don't read that on Halloween)
30 Days of night.
Starman
Birds of prey.

You cannot tell me that you don't give something out of at least 1 of these issues,or volumes.

Other than that,i am basically out of stuff to spew.Why don't you guys tell me what you think about this little..I'm even going to call it controversy anymore,this argument has been played out to death.
Member
Proud Otaku.The Waifu Commander.The Revived Pokemon Reviewer


Affected by 'Laziness Syndrome'

Registered: 06-29-13
Location: Inside the earths core.Biding my time,until i take it over..
Last Post: 3225 days
Last Active: 2500 days

(edited by relinquish022 on 07-07-14 12:47 AM)    

07-06-14 02:26 PM
sop281 is Offline
| ID: 1046145 | 104 Words

sop281
Level: 93


POSTS: 1775/2385
POST EXP: 163651
LVL EXP: 8022533
CP: 5530.8
VIZ: 101861

Likes: 0  Dislikes: 0
They do not take any less skill than novels, but it does take significantly less time. Personally though, I would find it easier to write a novel than to create manga because of my lacking drawing skills. To be more accurate, my drawing skills suck. I have found tons of entertainment in the medium, and quite oftentimes there will be a better story with more compelling characters than if I were to read a novel. It is always a case to case basis. You really cannot judge a whole medium based off of a single work within the medium. Whoever thinks otherwise is wrong. 
They do not take any less skill than novels, but it does take significantly less time. Personally though, I would find it easier to write a novel than to create manga because of my lacking drawing skills. To be more accurate, my drawing skills suck. I have found tons of entertainment in the medium, and quite oftentimes there will be a better story with more compelling characters than if I were to read a novel. It is always a case to case basis. You really cannot judge a whole medium based off of a single work within the medium. Whoever thinks otherwise is wrong. 
Vizzed Elite

Affected by 'Laziness Syndrome'

Registered: 04-02-11
Last Post: 3394 days
Last Active: 1439 days

07-06-14 02:32 PM
Crawldragon is Offline
| ID: 1046147 | 77 Words

Crawldragon
Level: 50


POSTS: 528/551
POST EXP: 59116
LVL EXP: 931144
CP: 554.0
VIZ: 24490

Likes: 0  Dislikes: 0
It's not that either of them take less skill. Certainly manga and comic books would require quite a lot more drawing and writing would require a lot more typing. I think it's that each form of writing has strengths and weaknesses. I find that it's often easier for me to express character and personality in the written word, but I'd challenge any of my fellow writers to write a no-dialogue story without making it into a comic.
It's not that either of them take less skill. Certainly manga and comic books would require quite a lot more drawing and writing would require a lot more typing. I think it's that each form of writing has strengths and weaknesses. I find that it's often easier for me to express character and personality in the written word, but I'd challenge any of my fellow writers to write a no-dialogue story without making it into a comic.
Trusted Member
Lurker Of The Century


Affected by 'Laziness Syndrome'

Registered: 01-18-10
Last Post: 3545 days
Last Active: 2700 days

07-07-14 10:18 PM
Snu is Offline
| ID: 1046907 | 200 Words

Snu
Gamin'Gal
GaminSoi
Level: 69


POSTS: 653/1234
POST EXP: 89999
LVL EXP: 2841848
CP: 5999.9
VIZ: 29307

Likes: 0  Dislikes: 0
It's an insane question. Neither one is necessarily easy to make, they just take very different skills.
If you want to make a good visual novel, you need the art skills required and at the very least story and character skills to help things feel right.
Bland/Unclear visuals will turn the reader off, but so will poor dialogue and a bland story (Though a bit less so)
With making purely written novels it's a bit different. Dialogue and plot are both very VERY important, but now you have to make sure the narrative is engaging and won't dull the readers to pieces.
Manga/Comics may be faster to make, but also keep in mind that several different people often work on them to make that happen.  I wouldn't call that easy, as you have to make sure you collaborate and use teamwork to achieve optimal effect.
Novels actually take work from several people as well. Sure, there's only the author who gets most of the credit, but they have editors and publishers Cover artists to help the book sell.
Neither one is easy, and if you think either of them are, you might want to take a second to rethink that.
It's an insane question. Neither one is necessarily easy to make, they just take very different skills.
If you want to make a good visual novel, you need the art skills required and at the very least story and character skills to help things feel right.
Bland/Unclear visuals will turn the reader off, but so will poor dialogue and a bland story (Though a bit less so)
With making purely written novels it's a bit different. Dialogue and plot are both very VERY important, but now you have to make sure the narrative is engaging and won't dull the readers to pieces.
Manga/Comics may be faster to make, but also keep in mind that several different people often work on them to make that happen.  I wouldn't call that easy, as you have to make sure you collaborate and use teamwork to achieve optimal effect.
Novels actually take work from several people as well. Sure, there's only the author who gets most of the credit, but they have editors and publishers Cover artists to help the book sell.
Neither one is easy, and if you think either of them are, you might want to take a second to rethink that.
Vizzed Elite
Vizzed's Resident Kirby fan


Affected by 'Laziness Syndrome'

Registered: 06-21-12
Location: Planet Robobot
Last Post: 1892 days
Last Active: 1882 days

07-22-14 07:41 PM
Barathemos is Offline
| ID: 1054773 | 150 Words

Barathemos
Level: 205


POSTS: 9137/15634
POST EXP: 668905
LVL EXP: 124510388
CP: 46524.6
VIZ: 889961

Likes: 0  Dislikes: 0
If you are an amazing drawer, then sure. But having to place all the dialog, and having to come up with all the dialog, it really isn't that hard. I will say that making a novel is harder, because you need a lot more detail added to your story because you don't have pictures in there describing your words, but it wouldn't really say that it takes less skill, it's just easier to make a manga or comic. Comics are hard to make because you can't have too many words so you need to know how to say what you need to say, in little space, so I really think that it takes even more skill to make a manga or comic then it takes to create a novel, but that is just me and my thoughts. It was interesting to see what other people had to say in here...
If you are an amazing drawer, then sure. But having to place all the dialog, and having to come up with all the dialog, it really isn't that hard. I will say that making a novel is harder, because you need a lot more detail added to your story because you don't have pictures in there describing your words, but it wouldn't really say that it takes less skill, it's just easier to make a manga or comic. Comics are hard to make because you can't have too many words so you need to know how to say what you need to say, in little space, so I really think that it takes even more skill to make a manga or comic then it takes to create a novel, but that is just me and my thoughts. It was interesting to see what other people had to say in here...
Local Moderator
Minecraft Admin

Affected by 'Laziness Syndrome'

Registered: 02-17-13
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Last Post: 80 days
Last Active: 4 days

07-22-14 09:34 PM
Singelli is Offline
| ID: 1054839 | 283 Words

Singelli
Level: 160


POSTS: 7037/8698
POST EXP: 1189395
LVL EXP: 52879068
CP: 67331.7
VIZ: 3147678

Likes: 0  Dislikes: 0
I don't read Manga or comics, but my little sister was a huge collector of some Manga collection thingie.... I really can't remember what it was called, but I'm sure many people here would know it.... Shonen Jump or something like that, maybe?  (I don't even know where those two words came from in my head... but suddenly they were there. They might be completely unrelated to this topic.  LOL)

Anyways.... I'm going to probably be a bit shocking here. I'm going to say that even as a prolific writer, I can't demean the effort and time that go into creating a comic or manga.  I mean, I know people look at them and feel "Oh, it's all pictures!", therefore doubting the quality of the work.  However, do we view plays or movie scripts as taking any less skill than writing a novel?  Most likely, we don't.... and those are mainly dialogue.  Comics and manga on the other hand.... are dialogue PLUS art.

I can't draw worth squat, and I think it's amazing that so many people can even draw flowers.  

I think that in manga and comics, the character depth might be lacking, but that's simply due to the fact that MOST comics can't get into the nitty gritty feelings, emotions, and thoughts behind a character.  Given the medium, those concepts are portrayed the best that they can be.  And many mangas or comics do a fantastic job of it.

There are books and novels that are great and took a lot of skill to write, and there are books and novels which required no effort at all.
The same can be said for any medium of entertainment / communication / story-telling.
I don't read Manga or comics, but my little sister was a huge collector of some Manga collection thingie.... I really can't remember what it was called, but I'm sure many people here would know it.... Shonen Jump or something like that, maybe?  (I don't even know where those two words came from in my head... but suddenly they were there. They might be completely unrelated to this topic.  LOL)

Anyways.... I'm going to probably be a bit shocking here. I'm going to say that even as a prolific writer, I can't demean the effort and time that go into creating a comic or manga.  I mean, I know people look at them and feel "Oh, it's all pictures!", therefore doubting the quality of the work.  However, do we view plays or movie scripts as taking any less skill than writing a novel?  Most likely, we don't.... and those are mainly dialogue.  Comics and manga on the other hand.... are dialogue PLUS art.

I can't draw worth squat, and I think it's amazing that so many people can even draw flowers.  

I think that in manga and comics, the character depth might be lacking, but that's simply due to the fact that MOST comics can't get into the nitty gritty feelings, emotions, and thoughts behind a character.  Given the medium, those concepts are portrayed the best that they can be.  And many mangas or comics do a fantastic job of it.

There are books and novels that are great and took a lot of skill to write, and there are books and novels which required no effort at all.
The same can be said for any medium of entertainment / communication / story-telling.
Vizzed Elite
Singelli


Affected by 'Laziness Syndrome'

Registered: 08-09-12
Location: Alabama
Last Post: 2499 days
Last Active: 2474 days

07-22-14 09:48 PM
thing1 is Offline
| ID: 1054852 | 40 Words

thing1
Thingywingy
Level: 219


POSTS: 8776/17208
POST EXP: 921418
LVL EXP: 156429156
CP: 31484.3
VIZ: 524983

Likes: 0  Dislikes: 0
I think comics and manga take a little more skill solely for the fact of the drawing that is required. Also, you have to collaborate with your artists, so it is a lot more difficult to get things just right. 
I think comics and manga take a little more skill solely for the fact of the drawing that is required. Also, you have to collaborate with your artists, so it is a lot more difficult to get things just right. 
Vizzed Elite
What is life?


Affected by 'Laziness Syndrome'

Registered: 02-03-11
Location: Washington DC Area
Last Post: 22 days
Last Active: 1 day

Links

Page Comments


This page has no comments

Adblocker detected!

Vizzed.com is very expensive to keep alive! The Ads pay for the servers.

Vizzed has 3 TB worth of games and 1 TB worth of music.  This site is free to use but the ads barely pay for the monthly server fees.  If too many more people use ad block, the site cannot survive.

We prioritize the community over the site profits.  This is why we avoid using annoying (but high paying) ads like most other sites which include popups, obnoxious sounds and animations, malware, and other forms of intrusiveness.  We'll do our part to never resort to these types of ads, please do your part by helping support this site by adding Vizzed.com to your ad blocking whitelist.

×