Good day fellow Vizzed members.

So a couple of days ago one of my classes was discussing gender equality and whether or not todays societies suppress women(whole other issue for another thread). During the debate I noticed something very odd going on through the debate. I'm sure that some of you might have noticed this as well, but this has been kind of bothering me lately.

Anyways I noticed during the debate that most of my classmates kept starting their arguments with the words "I believe..." or "I think that...". Instead of trying to have a debate based on facts or evidence, we ended up debating thru emotions and opinions. Now most of the time (about 90% of the time) I don't use those words when making an argument; instead I use "It would appear" or "Based on the evidence" when making points (valid ones I should say). And in the end these same people who start arguments with their own opinions give me funny/dirty/disgusted looks or yell at me for being an unsympathetic person or being a devil's advocate.

Here is a good example...

Classmate: I feel that todays society suppresses women and that they don't have as many rights or privileges as males and that they are second class citizens

Me: I disagree. Based on the fact that we have Rape Shield Laws where a female's sexual history can't be used as evidence, women have near absolute power in terms of abortion decision, and the fact that they can get material leave shows that women are not second class citizens.

Classmate: *gives disgusted look* Well your a male so its easy for you to say that.

Now I have no problem getting called names (I'm trying to become a politician, I expect to be called names). But these people who are using their emotions or opinions to justify their arguments are not well constructed and lack strong examples to justify their arguments. And when I make an argument that uses hard evidence or facts to justify my argument while being opinion neutral; they get offended as if I had personally attacked them. Which I guess its true since because they gave an argument that was based on their opinion/belief they would be offended if I challenged their opinion that they believed to be true.

Now I don't want you guys to focus specifically on the whole gender equality thing, what I really want to talk about is why do people during arguments and debates tend to start their argument with their own opinion? It seems like it makes it hard to have an actual debate and argument because if you challenge their opinion then they get offended and it becomes a shouting match rather then an actual debate. So I guess that is the question or thing I really want to talk about as I feel kind of disheartened by what I've seen during my debates.

Indeed. I actually had a discussion with some people a while back, and used facts that I had only just learned, to show them that what we had thought prior to this conversation was wrong, and after I presented them with the solid facts, they simply said "Well, I had a dream that it was this way". Say what?? Since when do your thoughts or even dreams stand up in a discussion about logic and facts? And how does your dream (Which, fun fact, is merely a representation of what you already personally feel or believe) disprove the facts? Needless to say, I don't discuss anything of importance with that person anymore.

It's because of things like this that I no longer enjoy talking with people about new ideas, or any serious topics. I want intelligent conversation, not someone who is going to get upset because I disagree, or who is going to use emotions or beliefs as though they are an effective counter to disprove a solid fact. I will discuss something serious with a person one time, and if they react this way, good luck to them on getting a serious thought out of me. lol

Facts are facts, regardless of what I or anyone else thinks or feels. Very good thread here, man.

I don't have a comment on the argument stuff, but I thought of the similarity of submitting a resume - it's the same thing, where you want to say "I believe I'm a hard worker" but you should say "I am a hard worker" lol.

I think/believe also leaves a since of unsureness. "I think I can do it." "I  can do it." Which one sounds more sure that they know what they are doing (even if they don't). Now, I have probably said it once or twice in a debate but not often, I get pretty worked up debating so the madder I get the more sure in my beliefs and myself I get. Facts are normally the last thing most people use in a debate, they use hear say and non since first because facts are a fact and that is that.

Phrase like "I think" or "I feel" are cultural sentence starters in the United States because it's bringing individual emotion and support to a statement.  People are used to doing it because they're validating themselves and their statement.  They're qualifying their statements to make sure those statements are okay with other people.  Instead of hitting someone with facts, they're allowing themselves to be accepted because they're not disagreeing or causing controversy.

I don't agree with it.  Make a statement and back it up with facts and figures.  My wife will order food and restaurants and say, "I'll think we'll start with the onion strings fried in gravy."  I frown and say, "No, no.  We're HAVING the onion strings fried in gravy.  Don't think we are.  Know we are."

She frowns but she has made changes the last half year.

warmaker : Haha, I like you. I agree with everything you just said. 

I mean technically yes you should use only facts when debating, but in reality if it is a debate you care about of course your feelings are going to leak through in the argument.  --------> it seems to me that it is human nature.  Is my statement invalid because that is how I feel, I am a person so my feelings about how people feel should count for something, right?  Though I will agree that when debating or arguing you must use facts as well otherwise how could you sway someone else's thoughts.  Someone else with there own thoughts probably won't be swayed just because you feel the other way, but if you use facts to back up why you feel that way you might be giving the other person new information they didn't know which could change how they feel.  So to sum it up I think a good argument has a good mix of "I feel this way" but also needs supporting facts as to why you feel that way. If you just throw emotions at me I haven't learned anything but how you feel.  If you just throw facts at me it doesn't hit home as hard as if you sprinkle in some personal feelings along with it.