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Do any western countries have good cause to fight Russia over Ukraine?

 

03-08-14 05:28 AM
thenumberone is Offline
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Traduweise :
Dude, thats the autonomus republic of crimea parliament. Not the ukranian parliament.
Simferopol is in crimea... its the crimean parliament...
Again, you are not actually reading the articles because that one makes it very clear.
On top of that, it happened after yanukovich was already deposed.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10664381/Ukraine-crisis-Russian-flag-raised-in-Crimea-as-gunmen-storm-parliament.html
Only a day later armed Russians storm the parliament. But now it's okay because it's Russia?
I did check the dates, the last guy to die had been in for weeks... and the ones being admitted are people that never left the protests when they were ongoing. The same article tells you that.
As for the edit you've one mistake then, hopefully this reply will clarify more.
Traduweise :
Dude, thats the autonomus republic of crimea parliament. Not the ukranian parliament.
Simferopol is in crimea... its the crimean parliament...
Again, you are not actually reading the articles because that one makes it very clear.
On top of that, it happened after yanukovich was already deposed.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10664381/Ukraine-crisis-Russian-flag-raised-in-Crimea-as-gunmen-storm-parliament.html
Only a day later armed Russians storm the parliament. But now it's okay because it's Russia?
I did check the dates, the last guy to die had been in for weeks... and the ones being admitted are people that never left the protests when they were ongoing. The same article tells you that.
As for the edit you've one mistake then, hopefully this reply will clarify more.
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03-08-14 09:44 AM
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thenumberone : I know exactly what these articles are saying. You're constantly trying to argue with me on points I haven't even brought up. Both the national Ukranian parliament and the Crimean parliament have been stormed. I gave you both articles to show you that. Heck, here's a direct quote from the last article: "Thirty-six people have requested medical care in the past 24 hours, the ministry said. Of them, 22 were admitted to hospitals." That's from March 6th. Crimea is still more stable and safe than Ukraine.
thenumberone : I know exactly what these articles are saying. You're constantly trying to argue with me on points I haven't even brought up. Both the national Ukranian parliament and the Crimean parliament have been stormed. I gave you both articles to show you that. Heck, here's a direct quote from the last article: "Thirty-six people have requested medical care in the past 24 hours, the ministry said. Of them, 22 were admitted to hospitals." That's from March 6th. Crimea is still more stable and safe than Ukraine.
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(edited by Traduweise on 03-08-14 10:11 AM)    

03-08-14 11:32 AM
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Traduweise :
Except you really haven't. At no point, have you given me evidence of the Ukrainian parliament being stormed. You have repeatedly cited the Crimean parliament and inaccurately called it the Ukrainian parliament, you have cited Ukraine as being in anarchy yet no one is dying there, cited Crimea as being the most stable region, despite mobs kicking the living daylights out of each other there, in fact, you have, if memory serves, misinterpreted every single news article that both Myself, or you linked.

As for the war zone link.
first you stated people are still dying, the last person referenced there as having died, was admitted last month.
Equally, it states in the last 24 hours,(from march the 6th)36 people requested medical attention.
Of these only 22 were admitted to hospital.
None of these are detailed as to what the nature of their injury is, nor the circumstances, or indeed when they came to need treatment. But you are using it as evidence of rioting in Kiev? Not even the article suggests that.
And then you say Crimea is more safe?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26499328
Assuming you don't skim this (like you have every other link), it indicates for the 3rd time, as international military observers approached the border of Crimea, they were turned away. As well as warning shots being fired. Its strange how they wont allow observers in. North Korea, Syria, Egypt, Rwanda, they have all taken similar measures when they've been up to no good. If Crimea is so safe and stable i wonder why they feel firing over the heads of unarmed observers is necessary?

And then of course the fact that the Russians and mobs are repeatedly trying to seize military sites, unnecessary provocation. The Russians have already seized the Ukrainian army's weapons so why do they want to seize control of their bases? Occupation.
The Ukrainians aren't hindering media or civilians, yet Russia is and you think they are in the right?
Traduweise :
Except you really haven't. At no point, have you given me evidence of the Ukrainian parliament being stormed. You have repeatedly cited the Crimean parliament and inaccurately called it the Ukrainian parliament, you have cited Ukraine as being in anarchy yet no one is dying there, cited Crimea as being the most stable region, despite mobs kicking the living daylights out of each other there, in fact, you have, if memory serves, misinterpreted every single news article that both Myself, or you linked.

As for the war zone link.
first you stated people are still dying, the last person referenced there as having died, was admitted last month.
Equally, it states in the last 24 hours,(from march the 6th)36 people requested medical attention.
Of these only 22 were admitted to hospital.
None of these are detailed as to what the nature of their injury is, nor the circumstances, or indeed when they came to need treatment. But you are using it as evidence of rioting in Kiev? Not even the article suggests that.
And then you say Crimea is more safe?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-26499328
Assuming you don't skim this (like you have every other link), it indicates for the 3rd time, as international military observers approached the border of Crimea, they were turned away. As well as warning shots being fired. Its strange how they wont allow observers in. North Korea, Syria, Egypt, Rwanda, they have all taken similar measures when they've been up to no good. If Crimea is so safe and stable i wonder why they feel firing over the heads of unarmed observers is necessary?

And then of course the fact that the Russians and mobs are repeatedly trying to seize military sites, unnecessary provocation. The Russians have already seized the Ukrainian army's weapons so why do they want to seize control of their bases? Occupation.
The Ukrainians aren't hindering media or civilians, yet Russia is and you think they are in the right?
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(edited by thenumberone on 03-08-14 11:34 AM)    

03-29-14 03:03 AM
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Personally, I don't think any country has an inherit obligation to help another country. That doesn't mean helping another country is a bad thing, but it definitely shouldn't be the expectation. The only thing that should get the western countries involved would be if Russia attacked the Baltic States. As they are members of NATO, its western allies really wouldn't have much choice.
Personally, I don't think any country has an inherit obligation to help another country. That doesn't mean helping another country is a bad thing, but it definitely shouldn't be the expectation. The only thing that should get the western countries involved would be if Russia attacked the Baltic States. As they are members of NATO, its western allies really wouldn't have much choice.
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04-03-14 03:48 PM
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Quiet before the storm or a big deal over nothing?

I have been trying to follow the situation but most of the dramatics are gone for now. Well Ukraine is almost bankcrupt, they are going to get financial aid by both USA and EU, Russia says they are pulling their troops from the Ukraine border but what they say and what they do dont have to have anything to do with each other. Meanwhile half the world is annoyed at and have lost all trust towards Russia in almost every diplomatic level.

So whats next?

On a personal note. It sickens me that all this hysteria lately here in the countries that have borders with Russia has made joining Nato even more popular option over here in my own country. Yet still, Nato supporters are still in the minority but I find it sickening. We have fought the Russians for around a thousand years both alone and for Sweden. And yet we still remain. I dont want to bow to neither Washington or Moscow.
Quiet before the storm or a big deal over nothing?

I have been trying to follow the situation but most of the dramatics are gone for now. Well Ukraine is almost bankcrupt, they are going to get financial aid by both USA and EU, Russia says they are pulling their troops from the Ukraine border but what they say and what they do dont have to have anything to do with each other. Meanwhile half the world is annoyed at and have lost all trust towards Russia in almost every diplomatic level.

So whats next?

On a personal note. It sickens me that all this hysteria lately here in the countries that have borders with Russia has made joining Nato even more popular option over here in my own country. Yet still, Nato supporters are still in the minority but I find it sickening. We have fought the Russians for around a thousand years both alone and for Sweden. And yet we still remain. I dont want to bow to neither Washington or Moscow.
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