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Strength versus Wit and Wisdom

 

11-13-13 03:51 PM
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As the title suggests, what would you think is more important (in any given situation), [brute] strength and athleticism, or wisdom and wits? 

This question came up during a Socratic seminar I had recently regarding the book, the Odyssey. It seems the main character of this epic, Odysseus, solves most of his challenges with his wisdom and cunning (along with the Greek gods' help sometimes too). I brought this question up, but not many people had a solid stance. 

I would say both are important, but I feel wisdom and wit are much more important than brute strength. 

Take the part of the story, where Odysseus is trying to escape from Polyphemus. He must devise a plan to get out alive, or get killed. Odysseus plans on getting away by hitching a ride on the bellies of the sheep. He also tricks Polyphemus, saying that his name was 'No One', so if one were to ask Polyphemus who hurt him, Polyphemus would answer 'No One'. 

In that situation, brute strength was not a necessity; wisdom was much more important. There may be situations where you might think that strength is much more important and better to use (like weight-lifting), but many times, your wisdom is really what gives you strength. You may analyze an enemy and search for his/her weak points, and exploit them, giving you an upper hand. Or you can charge in with brute strength, possibly not recognizing his/her weakness, making it a little harder on yourself to beat him/her. 
(sorry the example was not worded so well)

However, for weightlifting, wisdom isn't completely the most important. Strength would help more than intelligence. But of course, knowing safety measures is part of intelligence. Knowing tips and tricks to easily lift the weight(s) is also part of intelligence. 

It seems that both strength and wisdom and wit go hand-in-hand. Usually, you would need one to probably use the other in a more "useful" manor. You may have extreme strength, and also are very intelligent. You notice a weak point in an enemy (lol, same example again), and if you could hit him there, he would be at a disadvantage. You take advantage of your strength, and hit him there, utterly devastating him...much more than simply giving him the disadvantage. 

What do you guys think?
As the title suggests, what would you think is more important (in any given situation), [brute] strength and athleticism, or wisdom and wits? 

This question came up during a Socratic seminar I had recently regarding the book, the Odyssey. It seems the main character of this epic, Odysseus, solves most of his challenges with his wisdom and cunning (along with the Greek gods' help sometimes too). I brought this question up, but not many people had a solid stance. 

I would say both are important, but I feel wisdom and wit are much more important than brute strength. 

Take the part of the story, where Odysseus is trying to escape from Polyphemus. He must devise a plan to get out alive, or get killed. Odysseus plans on getting away by hitching a ride on the bellies of the sheep. He also tricks Polyphemus, saying that his name was 'No One', so if one were to ask Polyphemus who hurt him, Polyphemus would answer 'No One'. 

In that situation, brute strength was not a necessity; wisdom was much more important. There may be situations where you might think that strength is much more important and better to use (like weight-lifting), but many times, your wisdom is really what gives you strength. You may analyze an enemy and search for his/her weak points, and exploit them, giving you an upper hand. Or you can charge in with brute strength, possibly not recognizing his/her weakness, making it a little harder on yourself to beat him/her. 
(sorry the example was not worded so well)

However, for weightlifting, wisdom isn't completely the most important. Strength would help more than intelligence. But of course, knowing safety measures is part of intelligence. Knowing tips and tricks to easily lift the weight(s) is also part of intelligence. 

It seems that both strength and wisdom and wit go hand-in-hand. Usually, you would need one to probably use the other in a more "useful" manor. You may have extreme strength, and also are very intelligent. You notice a weak point in an enemy (lol, same example again), and if you could hit him there, he would be at a disadvantage. You take advantage of your strength, and hit him there, utterly devastating him...much more than simply giving him the disadvantage. 

What do you guys think?
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11-13-13 05:33 PM
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It depends.  There are games, sports, activities, and events where either will be a better match.

Take a 100 yard dash.  There's no intellect to it.  You run hard for 11-15 seconds and it's over.  Brute strength, speed, agility, acceleration, and athleticism beat wits and wisdom every time.

Take a thinking man's sport like chess.  That's all about the smarts and not about strength.

Go back and look at football.  You can have strong guys but if they buy a trap or a fake, they look terrible.  You can also have a super athletic moron who is very good at the game because his physical set of attributes take charge.

In summary, either one can be the master of a specific sport.  It depends on the sport.  Wits and wisdom don't always beat the strong guy just as the physical monster doesn't always beat the 'weak nerd.'

It all depends.
It depends.  There are games, sports, activities, and events where either will be a better match.

Take a 100 yard dash.  There's no intellect to it.  You run hard for 11-15 seconds and it's over.  Brute strength, speed, agility, acceleration, and athleticism beat wits and wisdom every time.

Take a thinking man's sport like chess.  That's all about the smarts and not about strength.

Go back and look at football.  You can have strong guys but if they buy a trap or a fake, they look terrible.  You can also have a super athletic moron who is very good at the game because his physical set of attributes take charge.

In summary, either one can be the master of a specific sport.  It depends on the sport.  Wits and wisdom don't always beat the strong guy just as the physical monster doesn't always beat the 'weak nerd.'

It all depends.
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11-13-13 08:55 PM
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warmaker : Umm, he wasn't talking about sports, he was talking about in general, in everyday life. And I have to agree with him, I would rather be a scrawny genius than a dumb brute. In life, almost all challenges can be overcome using your intellect, but not as many can be solved using brute strength. You can use your smarts to make something easier to move, i.e. using a lever, using pulleys, etc. However,when faced with logic or puzzles, there's no way you can use force to overcome them. That's why I believe that intellect is more important than strength.
warmaker : Umm, he wasn't talking about sports, he was talking about in general, in everyday life. And I have to agree with him, I would rather be a scrawny genius than a dumb brute. In life, almost all challenges can be overcome using your intellect, but not as many can be solved using brute strength. You can use your smarts to make something easier to move, i.e. using a lever, using pulleys, etc. However,when faced with logic or puzzles, there's no way you can use force to overcome them. That's why I believe that intellect is more important than strength.
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11-13-13 10:12 PM
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I think that quick wits and intelligence is more important than strength any day. You have to know how to do things and be able to think and get through situations with wit and make good decisions and navigate through your options through wisdom and make the right choices and decisions in life. While strength is useful in many ways, I do not think that it is a vital thing to get through life like wisdom or wits. That is just my personal opinion though. Wisdom is always better, strength is a useful thing, but I would not consider it necessarily vital. Good question by the way. 
I think that quick wits and intelligence is more important than strength any day. You have to know how to do things and be able to think and get through situations with wit and make good decisions and navigate through your options through wisdom and make the right choices and decisions in life. While strength is useful in many ways, I do not think that it is a vital thing to get through life like wisdom or wits. That is just my personal opinion though. Wisdom is always better, strength is a useful thing, but I would not consider it necessarily vital. Good question by the way. 
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11-14-13 08:03 AM
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epicpokenerd! : He said in general.  I gave the situations where strength mattered more.  And if sports weren't mentioned, why did Sidewinder make a direct reference to weight-lifting as an example?

You can be smart and have the logic to figure everything out.  You can use math to figure out how to fix a car or how to build a house.  If you're not strong enough to pick up the 2x4 or turn the wrench, it doesn't matter.  And even daily things like "Oh, no, a heavy object fell on my mother" are going to require strength and physical ability more than intelligence.


"Can you open this stuck jar of pickles for me?"  Sure you can figure out how much torque you need and what force is applied with physics but a strong gets that sucker open faster than a mathematician.

And I agree that logic and puzzles are won by knowledge and intelligence but I walk around in this world and it's not Resident Evil with puzzles lying around everywhere.

Obviously a mix is the best option:  Be strong and smart.  That wins every time. 
epicpokenerd! : He said in general.  I gave the situations where strength mattered more.  And if sports weren't mentioned, why did Sidewinder make a direct reference to weight-lifting as an example?

You can be smart and have the logic to figure everything out.  You can use math to figure out how to fix a car or how to build a house.  If you're not strong enough to pick up the 2x4 or turn the wrench, it doesn't matter.  And even daily things like "Oh, no, a heavy object fell on my mother" are going to require strength and physical ability more than intelligence.


"Can you open this stuck jar of pickles for me?"  Sure you can figure out how much torque you need and what force is applied with physics but a strong gets that sucker open faster than a mathematician.

And I agree that logic and puzzles are won by knowledge and intelligence but I walk around in this world and it's not Resident Evil with puzzles lying around everywhere.

Obviously a mix is the best option:  Be strong and smart.  That wins every time. 
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11-14-13 01:52 PM
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This is a tough one, seeing as how it's optimal to have both. But I would say wit and intellect would be better. I mean, why do all the heavy lifting when you can use your smarts to convince someone stronger into doing it for you.
This is a tough one, seeing as how it's optimal to have both. But I would say wit and intellect would be better. I mean, why do all the heavy lifting when you can use your smarts to convince someone stronger into doing it for you.
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11-14-13 04:54 PM
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Both strength and wit are multiplicative. If strength = 0,

strength * wit = 0

If wit = 0,

strength * wit = 0

One needs at least a little of both to get anything done. If someone has literally no strength, they cannot move their mouth and use wit. If someone has literally no wit, they have nothing directing their abilities.

This can be compared to work and potential. No work, and potential really doesn't matter. No potential and work really doesn't matter.

It is necessary to have both.

Some would say wit is better. However, those with wit and little strength rely upon the strengths of others. Stephen Hawking relies upon those people who made his specific wheelchair.

Some would say strength is better. However, those with strength and little wit rely upon the wits of others. A tiger requires the intervention of man to make sure they are not hunted to extinction.
Both strength and wit are multiplicative. If strength = 0,

strength * wit = 0

If wit = 0,

strength * wit = 0

One needs at least a little of both to get anything done. If someone has literally no strength, they cannot move their mouth and use wit. If someone has literally no wit, they have nothing directing their abilities.

This can be compared to work and potential. No work, and potential really doesn't matter. No potential and work really doesn't matter.

It is necessary to have both.

Some would say wit is better. However, those with wit and little strength rely upon the strengths of others. Stephen Hawking relies upon those people who made his specific wheelchair.

Some would say strength is better. However, those with strength and little wit rely upon the wits of others. A tiger requires the intervention of man to make sure they are not hunted to extinction.
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11-14-13 05:54 PM
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warmaker : He was only using weight-lifting as an example of one situation where some people might find it more important to have strength than wit and intelligence. I was only saying this because you literally only used sports as examples, not everyday things. Not to mention, if a heavy object fell on someone, unless it crushed them flat it would be very easy to lift it off of them, even without large amounts of strength. And opening a jar of pickles? It doesn't take a genius to know how to loosen it's lid. Everyday tasks require much more intelligence than strength. I'm not saying intelligence is better for everything, I'm saying it's better for most things. Running late for something? You need to know the best order to do things in to make sure you do everything on time. Not to mention, I'm not necessarily talking about those kinds of puzzles, more logic puzzles, like trying to find a murderer, finding something that got lost, things like that that involve logic. And I never said a mix wasn't the best choice. It clearly is. However, a little bit of intelligence with a lot of strength is much less helpful than a little bit of strength and a lot of intelligence. And I never said that intelligence was all about figures and physics. It's primarily logic and knowing what to do, and when you need help. If you're strong but dumb, you probably wouldn't be able to figure out what to do in many situations on your own without help. Which is why more intelligence than strength is more important than more strength than intelligence. A mix is definitely the best. but if it's one or the other, Intelligence is better.
warmaker : He was only using weight-lifting as an example of one situation where some people might find it more important to have strength than wit and intelligence. I was only saying this because you literally only used sports as examples, not everyday things. Not to mention, if a heavy object fell on someone, unless it crushed them flat it would be very easy to lift it off of them, even without large amounts of strength. And opening a jar of pickles? It doesn't take a genius to know how to loosen it's lid. Everyday tasks require much more intelligence than strength. I'm not saying intelligence is better for everything, I'm saying it's better for most things. Running late for something? You need to know the best order to do things in to make sure you do everything on time. Not to mention, I'm not necessarily talking about those kinds of puzzles, more logic puzzles, like trying to find a murderer, finding something that got lost, things like that that involve logic. And I never said a mix wasn't the best choice. It clearly is. However, a little bit of intelligence with a lot of strength is much less helpful than a little bit of strength and a lot of intelligence. And I never said that intelligence was all about figures and physics. It's primarily logic and knowing what to do, and when you need help. If you're strong but dumb, you probably wouldn't be able to figure out what to do in many situations on your own without help. Which is why more intelligence than strength is more important than more strength than intelligence. A mix is definitely the best. but if it's one or the other, Intelligence is better.
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Sidewinder : well sometimes they both arent the best one to choose in a situwation but i think wit and wisdom would beat strength and athleticism but there is are also situations that they win like an arm wrestling or coding and those things so they are basically even
Sidewinder : well sometimes they both arent the best one to choose in a situwation but i think wit and wisdom would beat strength and athleticism but there is are also situations that they win like an arm wrestling or coding and those things so they are basically even
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I agree with you Sidewinder, both aspects are important, but if I had to choose, I would much rather have wit and wisdom because personally, I believe you can do so much more with that, then with strength.

I agree with you Sidewinder, both aspects are important, but if I had to choose, I would much rather have wit and wisdom because personally, I believe you can do so much more with that, then with strength.

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I believe in wits and wisdom, personally. After all, there are several fighting styles where one can take out a massive guy by using his strength against him. If you can outsmart a guy, you can easily still find a way to beat him if under attack. BUT physical health/ strength is still important since getting out of situations can become a lot harder if the plan requires heavy lifting.
Sometimes, the most life threatening situations are the ones you can only get out with strength, like, let's say a bear is after you. All the smarts in the world would be hard pressed to help you, especially when on an adrenaline high. At that point, you're going to need strength to get out of that spot.
(Sorry 'bout that, I think about a lot of things in a self defensive manner)
I believe in wits and wisdom, personally. After all, there are several fighting styles where one can take out a massive guy by using his strength against him. If you can outsmart a guy, you can easily still find a way to beat him if under attack. BUT physical health/ strength is still important since getting out of situations can become a lot harder if the plan requires heavy lifting.
Sometimes, the most life threatening situations are the ones you can only get out with strength, like, let's say a bear is after you. All the smarts in the world would be hard pressed to help you, especially when on an adrenaline high. At that point, you're going to need strength to get out of that spot.
(Sorry 'bout that, I think about a lot of things in a self defensive manner)
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If I'm not wrong, Odysseus also poked Polyphemus' eye with a burnt stick. In my opinion, I prefer wit and wisdom over strength. ANY problem can be solved with wits. I don't care if I get called a coward. I'd rather be a coward than an idiot. For example, you CAN build a house with your brains (You can ask someone to build it. You can plan the whole thing. So you get called lazy. Do I care?) but you CAN'T build it with just strength. (You'll waste your time and at the end of the day the most you'll have will be a pile of bricks that can be knocked down with a gust of wind).
If I'm not wrong, Odysseus also poked Polyphemus' eye with a burnt stick. In my opinion, I prefer wit and wisdom over strength. ANY problem can be solved with wits. I don't care if I get called a coward. I'd rather be a coward than an idiot. For example, you CAN build a house with your brains (You can ask someone to build it. You can plan the whole thing. So you get called lazy. Do I care?) but you CAN'T build it with just strength. (You'll waste your time and at the end of the day the most you'll have will be a pile of bricks that can be knocked down with a gust of wind).
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I think strength and wits/wisdom are good when there both used.....one cant survive without the other. So if one is used i dont think its as great as you think.
I think strength and wits/wisdom are good when there both used.....one cant survive without the other. So if one is used i dont think its as great as you think.
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Whats more important, Oxygen or water?You need both to survive. The same holds true here. To overcompensate one at the expense of the other is to set yourself up for a fall.
Whats more important, Oxygen or water?You need both to survive. The same holds true here. To overcompensate one at the expense of the other is to set yourself up for a fall.
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For me personally I think you need all 3. Strength you may need to do simple tasks like lift objects. You may also need strength in case you are attacked. Wit you need sometimes to sooth things over. Because lets just face it we as humans mess up a lot lol. Sometimes having wits can also get one out of a sticky situation. Wisdom is always important because you need Wisdom to solve problems, analyze situations, and to thrive. 
For me personally I think you need all 3. Strength you may need to do simple tasks like lift objects. You may also need strength in case you are attacked. Wit you need sometimes to sooth things over. Because lets just face it we as humans mess up a lot lol. Sometimes having wits can also get one out of a sticky situation. Wisdom is always important because you need Wisdom to solve problems, analyze situations, and to thrive. 
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