we know exactly where gravity comes from. it comes from large bodies which rotate. the rotation of a large amount of mass is what causes gravity. this is proven fact. it is not unprovable theory. 

@ thenumberone  there was no context to take your statement from. it was just a statement out of nowhere to mae the appearance you know what a theory is, when you just chose to use one of the several definitions for theory. you dont get to pick and choose, and its already been discussed by someone else on this page WHAT KIND of theories these are. they are not regular theories like you make about the world around you based on singular observation. these are excepted "theories" which have been proven by fact, time and time again. including gravity. and yes, a child IS evolution. do you think that animals just randomly grow genetic changes? some do, a very few, but not many. most evolution happens because the creation of new genes by the combination of differing genes during breeding. evolution dosent happen like in pokemon, where after eating enough other animals and being old enough they magically transform into a new creature.

I do not thik that it should be taught. Schools can't even call it "Christmas Break" because of religion,  but you can tell us that our beliefs are wrong? It also has not been proven, so why should they teach it?

TetraDigm : No we do not know where gravity comes from. All matter has a gravitational field, not just large rotating masses. However, we do not understand why or how matter has gravity.

Oh, and do not ever say something is "proven". Science does not prove. It hypothesises, it tests, it disproves, but it does not prove.

I don't agree with this at all. Even if you don't believe in evolution, it is still a part of Science no matter what. Taking away the theory of evolution from science, is like taking away the theory of creation from creationists.

Traduweise : I've never thought about it that way actually. You're right, science doesn't prove. I'm going to be thinking about that all night now XD

tgags123 : I believe it should be taught because it is one of the theories that has the most proof of existence out there. It's not proven (Traduweiese ) but it has the most to back it up at the moment.

MoblinGardens : True, but in science class don't they also teach you that you cannot make a valid conclusion unless you have proof that it is completely true? So they are kind of arguing with themselves.

tgags123 : That is true but usually it ends up with whatever has the most proof is considered to be "true" until something else is presented with more proof than the last theory. It happens all the time. Something is presented with more proof and takes place of the "truth". I personally find this kinda dumb actually XD

well i dont really know but all i know is that it is a theory and also i am not very smart at this science stuff, but i am still young so i dont think ill learn that until im a sophmore so im not that interested in science theories. that is probably all i got to say.also my science teacher is christian but doesnt believe that the big bang theory or the evolution thoery is real. so i dont think it should be taught in school it is better that they just learn how things work not theories. but otherwise great job on the thread you have a lot of replies keep it up

Honestly, I don't think it matters if people believe in it or not, it's a school of science and it should be taught. I personally believe in it and well, I know it's true, it's happening slowly as we live. Did you know we are actively loosing our wisdom teeth as a species? But let's for a moment say it's not real. Everyone should still be allowed to have their own beliefs and you know what... It doesn't matter if we believe it or not? Even if someone is a Christian they should still take the time to at least learn the basics, otherwise how will they have any way of backing up their arguments with anything other than false accusations? Then again the very same can be said for those who aren't Christian yet still take place in religious debate even if they have no religion themselves.

What I don't quite understand is why everyone has to be so ignorant of others beliefs. I ask this of everyone here. Why shouldn't everyone be entitled to their own beliefs while you are? It's only fair that everyone be allowed to believe in whatever they want. Then again I'm not really pointing fingers at anyone in particular here, merely stating that I think everyone should be allowed to have their own beliefs.

Again, I think it should be taught regardless of beliefs, otherwise it's merely ignorance and why would we want to withhold knowledge from our future generations? Don't we want to become smarter and less ignorant as a society not more so?

Traduweise : wrong again. the reason i said rotating bodies with large mass, is because that is what is generally thought of as gravity. the large forces of it that hold planets in place, and things on planets. its understood to an extent where it is fro, it comes from mass and movement. without movement, there is no gravity, and with lesser mass or movement, there is lesser gravity. we dont have to understand exactly what it is to know where it comes from, but it sees the extent of your knowledge is that which is taught to grade school students, on this subject. you are making statements that rely on heavily outdated ways of thought, that obviously discount or refuse to look for, the research that has been done extensively into this subject. gravity is not a theory. exactly what it is as an energy form is up to great debate, but it is a proven fact that gravity exists, to an extent what it does, and where it comes from. 

as for evolution, it is not a theory. you people need to stop listening to everything you hear on tv. evolution is a proven fact. how it happens is also proven, though there is always the possibility that it could happen in more ways. procreation is evolution. if you cannot wrap your head around this simple fact, you have no business making any judgments on evolution since you are clearly discounting the fact that everything that is defined as evolution, happens from breeding.

I rarely speak in such debates, but...

TetraDigm :

I think what people are trying to explain to you is that evolution is a Scientific Theory. In this sense, "theory" does not mean simply an unsure imagined explanation; in science, a theory is an explanation for an observation, even if it's "proven" (things aren't ever fully proven, but that's an other point).

We have been using gravity as an example, so let's continue. We observe that masses attract one and another; when you jump, the earth pulls you back "down". Now, over the course of time, scientist have developed Theories as to explain such WHY and HOW it happens. For example, the theory of relativity. That "theory" has been used, literally, thousands of times to calculate very precise procedures, such as launching satellites, determining the positions of? planets and stars, and conducting thousands, if not millions, of experiments here on earth to very very accurate degree. And so, there are little theories as well supported as it, yet the theory of relativity is still called a theory, because that is what a theory is: An explanation, very well supported (or "proven" as it is erroneously called), of a observation.

In science, a theory is not a "bad" thing to be called.

Also note, this has nothing to do with my thoughts on evolution, I was just trying to explain the word "scientific theory" to someone who didn't fully understand it's meaning.

tgags123 :
You are free to call it christmas break, is state and federal authorities that are meant to avoid endorsing a certain faith. Thats not an attack...
Incidentaly you should read sloans explanation of the term theory in science.
It does not mean unproven in the sense you take it to.

Light Knight :

i understand fully what you are saying. but the people who are arguing it are arguing essentially that it is an unproven idea, and that is their reasoning for saying it shouldnt be taught. they have no REAL argument, so lacking an understanding in the object of discussion they chime in with generic googled answers. i know that it is a scientific theory, which is the same thing as a theory just in the science universe. while tese things are theory, they are also fact. i suppose i should be more clear and say that they arent ONLY theory, but were talking to kids who dont understand the meanings of the words they are using, and thin a theory means its just an idea and has nothing to back it up nor can it be fact. so i just dumb it down a bit for them and feed their ignorance in the proper usage of the english language.

TetraDigm : Oh Ok I understand what you mean. I was under the impression you didn't think it was a scientific theory.

Still, I don't like the use of the word "fact" in this case... even the theory of relativity isn't a fact. But I see the point you are trying to make, and will just leave it at that.

TetraDigm : I really don't know where you get this stuff. Gravitation is not dependent on large rotating masses, it is generated by all physical matter. As far as movement goes, we have never observed matter that does not vibrate, so it's impossible to say. However, extremely cold objects do not display less gravity than hot ones, so I see no reason to accept your wild claims about movement generating gravity. If you had a peer-reviewed source, I'd love to see it.

Meanwhile, you still don't seem to understand the fundamental concept of science, which is to test and apply hypotheses to the world around us. Science never proves, and any scientific principle can be falsifiable. That is the fundamental hallmark of science, and if you ever go on to study science at the post-secondary level, it will be drilled into your head repeatedly. Nothing in science cannot be disproven. Gravity is not actually a theory; it is a law, which is similar but applied differently. Evolution is a scientific theory, which means it explains an aspect of the world around us. Heck, this isn't even college level. Once you get to high school, your science teacher will explain it to you. If you can't wait for that, try reading Wikipedia or something. It's important to know your basic definitions before you start arguing about them.
 

the difference in speed of an object, and speed of its atoms movement is a very large thing. im sorry that i have to be 100% specific with you since you see to not understand otherwise. the faster an object is moving through space, and the heavier it is (thats mass in case you dont now what that actually is.), the more of a gravitational force it will have. i couldnt tell you the exact formulea to figure this out, and i doubt any other human could yet either. rotation also helps to increase gravitational forces. im not sourcing anything for you. i have no need to as i dont honestly care what you believe. do some research if youre genuinely interested and open minded to the idea that you ight not know anywhere near what you think you do.


science's very purpose is to prove and disprove. it has done so time and time again. we have proved for a fact that you can run a piece of metal on rubber at 50 miles an hour, with 4 people sitting safely inside. weve proved that gravity exists, that there isnt some magical creature in some cloud city holding us down on the ground. we have also proved that creatures change every generation, by small amounts or huge leaps depending on what they breed with. im sure you put great store into your artificial knowledge gleamed from facebook posts and discovery channel specials, but some of us actually know what were talking about. 

TetraDigm : I'm no expert in physics, but I understand the basics just fine. Gravity is a function of mass. Sooner or later you're going to have to post some sources to back your claims, because I've found none. I do indeed research things I discuss, especially if they aren't in my field, which is why I have already asked you for a source. Your skating around that is fairly good indicator that you have no idea what you're talking about. If nobody knows what the formula is, then your arguments don't have much backing, do they?

And no, science does not prove. This is basic. Please just take the time to read this
and understand how the basic principles of science work. There is no scientific principle so well established that it cannot be challenged. Gravity is a good example of this. We can all observe it on a daily basis, but it is not understood where it comes from, what exactly is causing it (gravitons are a proposed solution to this), or why it behaves the way it does.

Both of you are right, here.

Traduweise : By all means does the mass of an object relative to you increase when it rotates. Angular velocity is still velocity and, as I'm sure you know, the mass of an object increases as it's velocity does. In fact, one of the reasons we cannot accelerate anything to light speed is that it's mass would be infinite at that point.  But the object's proper mass never changes; in other words, from it's point of view, it will always have the same mass. But from an observer's point of view, it's mass (and gravity) will increase.

TetraDigm : There are equations to calculate that. They are all under the umbrella of the Theories of Relativity (General relativity if I'm not mistaken?) If you want to really get visual, the "outer" parts of the object will be moving at a faster rate than the "inside", and so it does take complex math to determine the rotations effect on it's relativistic mass.

Here is a link both of you might enjoy.


Also, I will allow one more response about this from both of you, but we three are really getting off topic.

Light Knight : Thanks for the clarification. To put this back into the context of the thread, we should be able to agree that while scientific principles are strongly supported, they are not beyond question or doubt. That does not however mean that they should not be taught in science class. The validity of these theories is for qualified scientists to debate, not high school students.

Great, first I get out of kindergarten, then I need to get 5th grade, then middle school, 8th grade, I finally made it to 9th, then every other grade is a step, then college degrees, now I need to be a scientist later too? What's next(this has nothing to do with the subject)? It's belief, not a new species of insect. I doubt scientists can even grasp the idea of religion and science together