Mathew 19: 23-24

²³ Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. ²⁴ Again

I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle

than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

Luke 3: 11

¹¹ He

answereth and saith unto them, He that hath two coats, let him impart

to him that hath none; and he that hath meat, let him do likewise.

Mathew 6: 19-24

¹⁹ “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. ²⁰ But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. ²¹ For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

²² “The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are healthy, your whole body will be full of light. ²³ But if your eyes are unhealthy, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness!

²⁴ “No

one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the

other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You

cannot serve both God and money.

Do you think you serve more money than god? Are there not plenty of christians like that who do worship money instead of god? Or especially ones who have confused the two?

 

First off, on that second verse, the "Eye of the Needle" is talking about a slim gate that was very hard to fit through, somewhere in Jerusalem or something. I don't remember the details about it. But it's not saying eternal salvation is impossible wih wealth, if anybody had trouble wih that.

But as for the questions, no, I don't really worry about money much. I'm not in charge of my finances exactly, and don't think much about it. but people do lose sight of God. It is bound to happen. But I don't think that a majority of Christians are like this, or at least are like this most of the time. Or at least, I'd like to think so.

patar4097 :

#sigh#

 No not really, here is the whole thing and it comes after the "let the children come for me" skit you might have heard as a kid maybe.

¹⁶ Just then a man came up to Jesus and asked, “Teacher, what good thing must I do to get eternal life?”

¹⁷ “Why do you ask me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good. If you want to enter life, keep the commandments.”

¹⁸ “Which ones?” he inquired.

Jesus replied, “‘You shall not murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not steal, you shall not give false testimony, ¹⁹ honor your father and mother,’^c]">[c] and ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’^d]">[d]”

²⁰ “All these I have kept,” the young man said. “What do I still lack?”

²¹ Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

²² When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.

²³ Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. ²⁴ Again
I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle
than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.”

²⁵ When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?”

²⁶ Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.”

²⁷ Peter answered him, “We have left everything to follow you! What then will there be for us?”

²⁸ Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. ²⁹ And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life. ³⁰ But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first.

It says exactly that. With wealth salvation is impossible  or more like, with love you have for your wealth. But like Jesus says here, it is possible to give it up and be rid of it and then be saved. Maybe.

I think the idea is the love of wealth, for sure. It is my belief that here, Jesus read the man's heart and knew that his love of riches conquered his love for God. I think this goes for a lot of people as well, myself included at times! Do I think this a commandment for us to give up our wealth? I don't think so. Nor do I think it's impossible for someone who has wealth to go to heaven. But I think the idea is that vast riches often corrupt a man, removing his eyes off of the fact that it was God that blessed him and instead focused on his own efforts, thinking that it was himself that did it.

The problem I have is what to do about it. I mean, I'm not about to give up what I have if I don't know that I know it's what God wills for me, but if I did know that I know, I'm also not sure if I would give it up. I'm just being honest here because I know how hard it is to get your hands on money sometimes, especially in this economy. I'm not entirely wealthy at this point, you know? But I understand that sometimes money is my weakness, not that I love it but that I fear being without it. That's something that I hope eventually ends.

I am kinda in agreement with this observation.

Not so much in the the question of a persons faith but rather as a question of a persons scruples.
If the person has large plans?
Then he certainly need a large amount of money and resources.
If the person has small plans?
Then there is only so much they should need.
I have little concern of a person with a vast amount of resources having faith or not. (They can afford to go either way.)
But...
While we are on Earth together??
I would have a sharp eye on their goals and would want to know if making my life difficult is apart of them.

Just a thought.
Good Luck To All.
I'm done. Stick a fork in me.
Peace.

Jesus of course knew about the effect of wealth on your spiritual life in Matthew 19.  He deemed it so important for His disciples to know this, He said it twice. Once in verse 23 and again in verse 24 Of course there is absolutely nothing wrong with being a Christian and being rich, but I believe that God gives it to some for a special purpose - those who will be able to handle it and still serve Him unconditionally.  Money is not the root of all evil, the love for money is, as pray75 pointed out.  God knew what He was doing when He gave me the job and salary I earn now I'm not rich, but we get by.  It keeps one humble  Am I serving money more than God?  To be brutally honest, that's an area that I still struggle with and that I still need to commit to Him more, or rather, totally.

Matthew 19:30 But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first.

I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.' They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?' He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least among you, you did not do for me.'" Matthew 25:41-45

"No one can serve two masters. Either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and Money." Matthew 6:24

Deuteronomy 16:17
Every man shall give as he is able, according to the blessing of the LORD your God which He has given you.

many rich people were putting in large sums. A poor widow came and put in two small copper coins, which amount to a cent.Calling His disciples to Him, He said to them, “Truly I say to you, this poor widow put in more than all the contributors to the treasury; for they all put in out of their surplus, but she, out of her poverty, put in all she owned, all she had to live on.”

theres the story whereby jesus feeds hundreds of people with a couple of fish and loafs of bread. like the eye of the needle thing the people that didnt like that bit made an execuse. in the case of the food it was a miracle and he made it more than it was.
which effectively subverts the point of that story.
that you should share what you have with those that have less.
frankly most people would call q non religious figure that supported these ideas, a communist.

the bible is abundantly clear, in that you should not horde money. you are tp give all you can to those that have nought and not live in excess.
frankly, almost every christian ignores this.
theres more in the bible against the rich than homosexuals, yet homosexuals get more abuse.
because it doesent impede the non homosexuals. when it comes to self sacrifice thats a different matter.

thenumberone : Money in and of itself is not evil. It's when we make money our "god" that it becomes evil. There's nothing wrong with being rich, so long as we still focus on God and not money/material things. Hoarding money shows you're making money your "god", which is very bad.

Anything other than God can become our "god". Whether or not we intend that, everyone has a special something. Perhaps it's good grades, or nice cars, or a great family. Our focus cannot be primarily on those things though. We must turn our gaze upon God.

mrfe :
maybe, but the bible categorically states you are to share equally with those who have less than you.
e.g homeless people, those who cant afford medicine or healthcare.
by the bible christians should equally shoulder these peoples burden.
should is the operative word here.
really, christianity has been reshaped to fit better with what the worshippers want.
hypothetically, if god were real and returned, it would surely bevas the first time, where the jews were his worshippers and he told them they were following the faith wrong. christianity emerged as the replacement, and over generations stripped away the parts they didnt like. its not the same faith anymore.
dont get me wrong, I really dont particularly care, its just irritating that people cherry pick.

thenumberone : Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall any Bible verses saying that we need to equally share our possessions and such. We should provide for people's needs, but we're not all required to have the same amount of money. If we did, why would Jesus tell a parable where the owner of the estate gives different amounts of money to each servant? Wouldn't it have been all equal amounts?

I do agree that many Christians don't help those in need though. Helping those in need is a great way to show Christ.

mrfe :
did you read the posts with scripture?
"he that hath 2 coats "
"every man shall give as he is able"
"I needed clothes and you did not clothe me"
read the quotes and then see if you still think as you do

thenumberone : I hadn't forgotten those verses. In fact, I don't think they disprove what I said at all! "he that hath 2 coats" Yeah, he'd give one up! But if he has 20, then he doesn't have to give 10 to the guy! It's great to help others as you can, which is your second bit in quotations, but you don't have to give exactly half. I mean, if you have a million dollars, you don't have to give 500,000 away to the first guy in need. Help as you're able, and such, but I don't believe it has to be exactly 50%. I mean, 10% is what's required of us to give back to God. Now, that doesn't mean throwing it all in a vault. It means using it to further His kingdom and to show His glory. It could be used for a tv even, if the tv was going to be used to share Christian videos in other people's language or something. Now, not saying you should use that money to hire a thief to break into someone's house to leave a Bible or something, but making a supper for the neighborhood where the Gospel is shared is a worthy reason.

Just my opinion, of course.

thenumberone:  I don't see how those phrases prove your point, to be honest.

One point to bring up though, is that someone should help as they are able.  Some people might have more than others, but really can't afford to give much up.  Now, do I think this is the case with all people not giving?  Absolutely not!  I think many people who claim to be Christian or don't claim it.... have very selfish ideas on what they are able to give and what they aren't.  Maybe people would say they can't afford to give because they simply want to purchase something completely unnecessary (let's say a huge flat screen TV) for themselves.

Does this mean they are not giving as God has directed?  I think the answer to that question sort of depends on the situation in hand.  God -does- tell us to enjoy the fruits of our labor, but we mustn't spend foolishly.  If the person buying the flat screen TV had everything right with God and had delegated his funds wisely and given to those a little more needy?  Well, then they might not be wrong in buying something for themselves.

However, if a person is spending pay check after pay check on themselves, not giving to those less fortunate, and having a disdainful attitude towards God's desires.... well, then that person would be wrong in buying a flat screen TV for themselves.  God doesn't tell us we can't buy nice things for ourselves or that we must give 50%+ away of our earnings.

I think the whole matter has a lot to do with intents of the heart and a person's relationship with God.

Singelli : LOL! Same example! That's scary... stalker! Back on topic, I agree with what you said. You worded it much better than I did.

It's my prayer that I will serve God over money, money is just temporal anyway.

mrfe :
if you have 20 qupts and are to impart to those that have none, it goes down by 1 until that is all you have left. it doesent say after 1 good act your saved. you are to continually give what youvdont need to those that have nought.
10%?
why? the bible always talks anout giving your self to god, but 10% is a deposit, not a definitive commitment

thenumberone :
mrfe :

I haven't been keeping up with this thread, but I would also like to point out that "Christians tithing 10%" is not in the Bible.

Oh you fools who say you can be both rich and a christian!

Luke 12:13-21

¹³ And one of the company said unto him, Master, speak to my brother, that he divide the inheritance with me.

¹⁴ And he said unto him, Man, who made me a judge or a divider over you?

¹⁵ And
he said unto them, Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's
life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth.

¹⁶ And he spake a parable unto them, saying, The ground of a certain rich man brought forth plentifully:

¹⁷ And he thought within himself, saying, What shall I do, because I have no room where to bestow my fruits?

¹⁸ And he said, This will I do: I will pull down my barns, and build greater; and there will I bestow all my fruits and my goods.

¹⁹ And I will say to my soul, Soul, thou hast much goods laid up for many years; take thine ease, eat, drink, and be merry.

²⁰ But
God said unto him, Thou fool, this night thy soul shall be required of
thee: then whose shall those things be, which thou hast provided?

²¹ So is he that layeth up treasure for himself, and is not rich toward God.

And dont you go thinking you can both have a "treasure for yourself" and "be with rich toward god".

N.T. Wright (former Bishop of Durham and current Professor of NT at St. Andrews, Scotland) has an interesting video on society serving the god Manna at Northwestern University on Youtube. Check it out.