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warmaker
11-08-12 07:46 PM
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11-20-12 02:02 AM
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Can women gain social advantage without men losing?

 

11-08-12 07:46 PM
warmaker is Offline
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Gender equality and inequality is always delicate, charged, and aggressive.  Are gender politics a zero sum game?  Do males lose out when women gain?

Example: Title IX.  I went to Eastern MIchigan University and we lost the women's crew team because they didn't participate.  Due to Title IX, the men's soccer team lost its varsity status.  My paltry scholarship went out the window.  It wasn't much but it paid the food bill.

Can women make gains without men losing out?
Gender equality and inequality is always delicate, charged, and aggressive.  Are gender politics a zero sum game?  Do males lose out when women gain?

Example: Title IX.  I went to Eastern MIchigan University and we lost the women's crew team because they didn't participate.  Due to Title IX, the men's soccer team lost its varsity status.  My paltry scholarship went out the window.  It wasn't much but it paid the food bill.

Can women make gains without men losing out?
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11-08-12 11:08 PM
Lazlo Falconi is Offline
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It is possible, and I've seen it happen plenty of times, but we do have a society that feels so guilty about things, and people are too fast to side with bleeding-heart lawyers who only exist to stir up trouble for decent, law abiding citizens. Unfortunately in some cases programs like that are the only way men and women can truly be equal, because if there is any little difference, some jerk will push in and create an even wider gap to make things worse.

But the fact that we create laws to make women equal already creates an inequality. I mean, how many scholarships do you see that explicitly state they can not be for women? There's no such thing as "Men's Studies" in our universities. Although I guess such a program would only be about the history of beer and sports...
It is possible, and I've seen it happen plenty of times, but we do have a society that feels so guilty about things, and people are too fast to side with bleeding-heart lawyers who only exist to stir up trouble for decent, law abiding citizens. Unfortunately in some cases programs like that are the only way men and women can truly be equal, because if there is any little difference, some jerk will push in and create an even wider gap to make things worse.

But the fact that we create laws to make women equal already creates an inequality. I mean, how many scholarships do you see that explicitly state they can not be for women? There's no such thing as "Men's Studies" in our universities. Although I guess such a program would only be about the history of beer and sports...
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11-09-12 06:52 AM
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warmaker :  First, I believe in equality for all
regardless of gender, minority, political affiliation, orientation etc.  I think the whole if one gains something is
lost by someone else is a stereotype that stems from those who like to put
labels on others.  In regard to women I
have always felt that they are equal to men especially in the work place and
should be financially compensated accordingly.

There have been a few teacher strikes
where I live in recent years, one of the issues was that female teachers weren’t
paid to the same standards as their male counterparts.  I think that especially in the times we live
in, the fact that the issue of equality is still an issue is sad.  Everyone and I mean Everyone should be
on an even playing field.  

warmaker :  First, I believe in equality for all
regardless of gender, minority, political affiliation, orientation etc.  I think the whole if one gains something is
lost by someone else is a stereotype that stems from those who like to put
labels on others.  In regard to women I
have always felt that they are equal to men especially in the work place and
should be financially compensated accordingly.

There have been a few teacher strikes
where I live in recent years, one of the issues was that female teachers weren’t
paid to the same standards as their male counterparts.  I think that especially in the times we live
in, the fact that the issue of equality is still an issue is sad.  Everyone and I mean Everyone should be
on an even playing field.  

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11-09-12 07:00 AM
earthwarrior is Offline
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warmaker : Yeah they can. It happened plenty of times before. One time in school we got extra credit on our tests for playing a game together. It was me and a girl and a boy. The girl got a lot of the questions right and we got a lot of extra credit. The test was one of the hard tests I have ever taken and if it wasn't for the extra credit I might of failed the test.
warmaker : Yeah they can. It happened plenty of times before. One time in school we got extra credit on our tests for playing a game together. It was me and a girl and a boy. The girl got a lot of the questions right and we got a lot of extra credit. The test was one of the hard tests I have ever taken and if it wasn't for the extra credit I might of failed the test.
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11-11-12 01:36 AM
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This sort of thing came into my head a while ago. I discussed it w/ some buddies & can't really come up w/ a specific answer.

It's on a much more basic level, but important: acting like a gentleman to women. When men act gentlemanly do we subconsciously believe/admit that women & men aren't equal because we give them that special treatment? And there is no equal & opposite of gentlemanly behavior, meaning there's no way for a girl to pull of things a chivalrous guy would do (pulling out a chair, opening doors, etc.). Especially w/ out looking inferior to their male companion in the eyes of society. Something like that would make the man look like a conceited scrub, & is a true double standard.

I personally like acting like a gentleman because I feel like a good person for doing so but I've come across girls that get upset at that treatment because they believe in "equality for all" & try to prove that women can be just as competent as men in the world. Then there are women that are offended when you don't give them special treatment because of the fact that they're women. A complete mind screw for men indeed.

What would you do?

Would you treat men & women equal & be patronized for killing chivalry?

or

Would you treat women special & accept (in some way or form) that men & women aren't equal?
This sort of thing came into my head a while ago. I discussed it w/ some buddies & can't really come up w/ a specific answer.

It's on a much more basic level, but important: acting like a gentleman to women. When men act gentlemanly do we subconsciously believe/admit that women & men aren't equal because we give them that special treatment? And there is no equal & opposite of gentlemanly behavior, meaning there's no way for a girl to pull of things a chivalrous guy would do (pulling out a chair, opening doors, etc.). Especially w/ out looking inferior to their male companion in the eyes of society. Something like that would make the man look like a conceited scrub, & is a true double standard.

I personally like acting like a gentleman because I feel like a good person for doing so but I've come across girls that get upset at that treatment because they believe in "equality for all" & try to prove that women can be just as competent as men in the world. Then there are women that are offended when you don't give them special treatment because of the fact that they're women. A complete mind screw for men indeed.

What would you do?

Would you treat men & women equal & be patronized for killing chivalry?

or

Would you treat women special & accept (in some way or form) that men & women aren't equal?
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(edited by VAponte on 11-19-12 06:45 PM)    

11-20-12 02:02 AM
FredElliot is Offline
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I work with a lot of women and to be fair, the best managers I've worked with have by and large been women.
I work with a lot of women and to be fair, the best managers I've worked with have by and large been women.
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