MY SAT Preparation professor sent me a link to a 2-part documentary called Zeitgeist. Now, these movies tackle so many topics that have gotten them in boiling water:

-Religion
-Money
-Government
-9/11 (oh my god they won't shut up about it)
-Banks(separate from money for some reason)
-War
-Consumption
-Material products and their durability
-Other stuff that I won't specify.

Both films can be watched here. While they do have a lot of bias, some of the stuff they're saying seems to be scientifically true, and physics works on their side with that 9/11 theory (I'm not saying they're right... Don't assume that). Their third documentary will be in 2010.

So, do you guys think some of the things they're saying in these are right? For example, the religion part? Everyone has a God figure, and we're no exception.


Discuss.

I've watched the religion section and it is full of so many errors it is aggravating. Search for a rebuttal to the zeitgeist movie, specifically on the religion section and you will realize how many errors they put into that movie to make it sound like Jesus was just another "god" and that religion is just a scam to pacify the masses....

There are parts of that movie that I don't think anyone can deny. Certain things that are facts backed up with evidence but that doesn't make everything they say true nor does it make their conclusions true.

But if you throw in enough truths and half-truths people will begin to assume that the rest is probably true too.

I feel the same way; their documentaries are too biased and, while they provide a ton of evidence, a lot of errors are very obvious in the documentaries.

yeah.... I personally think that they need to spend more time being accurate than being "shocking"....

if the evidence is there then the truth will be found eventually.... but using half-truths and out-right lies to somehow prove something doesn't work because there is always someone out there to debunk a lie.

What's really aggravating is that both sides of the story are too busy bashing one another--- so, we'll never actually get the whole truth.

In a world where we're supposed to be civilized, when it comes down to it, a massive amount of the people debating are like little children. "NO, you're wrong!" "Yeah? Well you're dumb!"

This documentary was like an episode of LOST: it was fun to follow along as a suspense series, but afterward it's intensely forgettable.

Overall I was disappointed in it because of the errors and half truths. Just the religion section alone... I mean, yes, Christianity did borrow a lot from pagan religions, particularly the Roman state religion... so why not give evidence on stuff like that which has documentation instead of trying to make Horus and Jesus the same?

They raise interesting points, but they don't have the facts to back it up because they want to be sensational. And like you all said, the bickering is f***ing annoying.

Elara: I agree that Chrsitianity did borrow a lot but studies of early Christianity (pre 200 AD) show that it was a very different religion than that of Constantine around 325 AD. My personal belief is that the Christian religion today is a perversion of the truth and that in order to truly find what Christianity is you need to understand what the Christians around the time of the apostles and other early leaders believed...


I would say more but I'm short on time

Here's something: Why don't both sides make one freaking documentary about both their sides, while letting the other have chances to put their points across? They could at least do that.

It's always a blame game unfortunately.

but it's not about the truth.... that's the whole thing. It's about the appearance of truth. It's what you can make people believe is the truth. The person with the most convincing argument wins most debates not the person who is right.

That's true... It's kind of like those times with someone with an evil twin, "It's the real me! Trust me!" "Don't believe him, it's me!"

Well, until the time of Constantine there were many different versions of Christianity moving about. It wasn't until the first council of Nicea that you got the Nicean Creed which defined what Christianity was and branded other systems as heritics (Manacheans, Arians, etc). But seriously, just look at the differences between 325 CE and today, it has changed SO much. The Iconoclasm, the Great Schism, the Crusades, the Inquisition, The Protestant Reformation, the Church of England, and the absorption of Aztec concepts that lead to the whole Virgin of Guadalupe obsession in the Latin American countries... it has grown over the years. You also have to take into account the errors in translation from one version of the text to another as well as the elimination of "heretical" gospels that contradict the Nicean Creed and thousands of other factors. While I am sure that all religions go through these changes, Christianity has the best documented case.

Elara: yup!

I think the only "true" christianity is found in the very earliest documents, some of which are now "heretical" because christianity has moved away from some of the original ideas that Jesus taught, and only then can you actually see the truth of what Jesus taught. The result of the Nicean creed was awful. It was a majority vote of what doctrines were true and what wasn't. And from then on you mentioned a half dozen changes that have occured to Christianity..... The idea that it is the same doctrine that Jesus taught baffles me.

Don't forget notions of the nature of Christ. I know that the Arians and another branch... starts with M but I am not sure if it is the Manacheans or not, were labeled as hereitics because one did not believe in the trinity and the other did not feel that Christ was completely divine.

Of course, primary source documents back then can also be interesting. Have you ever read the Golden Ass by Apuleius? He encountered the early Christians but did not have a very good reaction to them.

I have not read it, or heard of it.... who was he and where did he run in to Christians?

Yeah, even the nature of Christ was unclear by 325.... I have no doubt that the Apostles knew exactly who Jesus was and what his nature was relative to God the Father, but for whatever reason the Bible isn't totally clear on the subject.


Wow, I just realized how off topic this thread has become.... I'll talk about conspiracy theories for a minute....


I like to look at info on conspiracy theories not because I believe that most of them are true.... but because I think there is some truth in all of them and to filter through the truth and the lies requires time spent on both sides of the argument. There is always truth on both sides of the argument... it's a matter of figuring out what part is truth and what part is lie and if there is a middle ground where both sides mesh into what actually happened (or will happen).... that's what interests me the most.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apuleius

Lucius Apuleius was a Roman writer/philosopher who focused on humor often. The Golden Ass was largely a social commentary about how the lower classes lived disguised as a tale about a man that was turned into a donkey. The character (ironically named Lucius) encounters a Christian during his travels. It really is a good look at the biases against the early Christians held by the Romans of the second century.

But yes, back on track... I agree. There is always something true about stuff like this, it is just a b**** to sort through all of the bulls*** to get the little nuggets of truth.

I don't even think the world truth can remain valid past ones lifetime... Sooooo many people put twists on the original it's just impossible to decode, who the heck knows what is really real and what is fake.

I saw the ZEITGEIST movie and it made sense to me. I don't think we can debate what is real and what isn't, for all we know ancient scriptures are frauds and there is most likely lies in those as well. It's an ongoing process.

It's a hell of a lot easier to spread a lie then truth that is all I know. A good example would be on the FPS game I play online, one person thinks I cheat then it spreads like wildfire and they all think I cheat.

That's why I like seeking truth and looking at the other sides of stories that are deemed bull because those seem to hold a lot more strength to my views on stuff.