soxfan849
Level: 57


POSTS: 486/1362
POST EXP: 190602
LVL EXP: 1477639
CP: 1828.2
VIZ: 177829

tRIUNE :

Personally, I think that religion and politics shouldn't mix. But the fact of the matter is that for many people they do. And because of that I didn't think that what I was posting about was off topic at all, and I only wanted to see what he had to say in response. Sorry if I did something that you think is wrong, but I see no harm in what I did and I certainly intended no harm. I'll still comply and drop it because you want me to.

The Reaper
Affected by 'Laziness'

Position: Local
Since: 01-09-11
From: soxfan849
Last Post: 8 days
Last Active: 14 hours

tRIUNE
Level: 125


POSTS: 4149/7733
POST EXP: 415599
LVL EXP: 22337873
CP: 63230.7
VIZ: 1196237

soxfan849 : I'm pointing out that we already have a thread debating this subject in this forum here:
http://www.vizzed.com/boards/thread.php?id=29257

So this one stayed open because his original post wasn't meant to debate it, he was only asking how we felt about it.

I don't think religion and politics mix either but if other people feel that they do is fine.

Hero of Hyrule

"Romans 12:1-3"
Affected by 'Carpal Tunnel Syndrome'

Position: Admin
Role: RGR Staff Manager

Since: 06-09-10
Last Post: 4 hours
Last Active: 13 min.

mr.pace
Level: 50


POSTS: 199/874
POST EXP: 43113
LVL EXP: 891404
CP: 1.1
VIZ: 4859

Gay marriage is 100% unacceptable.  The Bible says one husband for a wife and one wife for a husband and that's how it should be.  God create Eve for Adam not Adam for Steve.  It amazes me how far our fundamentals have left us.

I am the prince of peace. Lord of Light mr.pace.
Affected by 'Laziness'

Position:
Since: 02-17-10
From: The Dawning of Time
Last Post: 226 days
Last Active: 220 days

Hoochman
Level: 66


POSTS: 1585/1669
POST EXP: 63636
LVL EXP: 2344442
CP: 72.5
VIZ: 111051

To expand on what I said earlier, I don't believe gay marriage is even healthy for society. I'm sorry if that offends people. I think that the basis for legalizing it isn't logical. The only reason I really hear for legalizing is that it's fair. I believe that the institution of marriage is between a man and a woman. I think that way is best for the family.

Kung Lao

Member
Affected by 'Laziness'

Position: Member
Since: 02-25-10
From: Minnesota
Last Post: 48 days
Last Active: 6 hours

soxfan849
Level: 57


POSTS: 577/1362
POST EXP: 190602
LVL EXP: 1477639
CP: 1828.2
VIZ: 177829

Hoochman :

In all honesty, I've never heard a logical argument for why it should be illegal in the first place. There are plenty of reasons why it should be legal. For instance, marriage is a fundamental right, it's between two consenting adults, it doesn't cause any harm to society, etc. I will admit that the only reason I think it should be legal is that it's fair otherwise. But I haven't heard a good reason to take away the right for gays to marry. My feeling on the matter is that if their rights can be restricted like this, without any real reason (the only reason I've heard is that it goes against god's word, or it isn't "natural") then what's keeping some of my rights safe?

The Reaper
Affected by 'Laziness'

Position: Local
Since: 01-09-11
From: soxfan849
Last Post: 8 days
Last Active: 14 hours

SilverMaestro
Level: 56


POSTS: 1221/1252
POST EXP: 60471
LVL EXP: 1385537
CP: 0.0
VIZ: 73953

  I do not see the problem in gay marriage; first off, it isn't affecting or hurting anybody except for maybe the two people involved in the marriage, and I feel that if two people who know that they want to be together regardless of gender decide to be together, then you nor I have the right to judge them in their personal choices.  Government has gotten far too involved in religious affairs like the banning of a homosexual UNION; a place where the government should never have ventured into, especially in the "democracy" that most of North America claims to have.

Grimer
Best Keep your concience as clean as you can, or charma will come with a blade in it's hand. It will strike all those who seek to gain without giving, and spare all of those who are weak and forgiving.
Affected by 'Laziness'

Position: Trusted
Since: 09-17-10
From: Calgary
Last Post: 376 days
Last Active: 233 days

thenumberone
Level: 102


POSTS: 4138/5314
POST EXP: 262226
LVL EXP: 10905766
CP: 2226.8
VIZ: 183230

mr.pace :
Becoming tolerant isnt losing fundementals. And look up the definition of fundamentalism, you will see the people that are fundamentalists are the religious conservatives enforcing there view on an entire nation. Fundamentalism is wrong

---

(last edited by thenumberone on 05-11-12 03:44 AM)

in my end is my begining
Affected by 'Trooperness'

Position: Elite
Since: 03-22-11
From: Scotland(the cold,wet place)
Last Post: 11 hours
Last Active: 52 min.

rcarter2
Level: 109


POSTS: 4335/6292
POST EXP: 507753
LVL EXP: 13688724
CP: 16196.1
VIZ: 751159

Well, since the President recently announced that he is for gay marriage, that has been on the news a lot. I have to say that Fox news has used this particular argument over and over, and it sickens me. The argument they use is "If we let 2 men or 2 women marry each other, then we will have to let people marry their dogs, cats, turtles, etc...." How dehumanizing is that argument? We are basically putting two consenting loving human beings on the level of dogs. That is calling them dogs. Great way to show that you think all men are created equal Fox. I am very glad that I have not read this argument on this thread. 

soxfan849 : the fact of the matter is that there really isn't a solid POLITICAL reason why it is illegal. Almost any politician that is against it is against it for conservative religious feelings on the matter. I'm a religious man myself, but it does upset me that our government has let it's own religious views literally be forced on everyone. It is reasons like this that religious people are often disliked and have a reputation of being intolerant. There really is a difference between upholding your religious beliefs and just forcing it on everyone else. On a political standpoint, it should be legal. Nobody said that legalizing it would mean that it is forcing the churches to recognize gay marriage. The churches would still have every right to refuse to marry a gay couple, so this really isn't a 'war on the church' that certain news stations claim it is. Let the churches keep doing what they are doing. Just let the marriage be recognized by the state.

Star Mario
Dominating RGR Competition Hall of Fame Table!
Affected by 'Carpal Tunnel Syndrome'

Position: Site Staff
Role: Game Reviewer

Since: 05-01-11
From: Kansas
Last Post: 20 hours
Last Active: 9 hours

tRIUNE
Level: 125


POSTS: 4527/7733
POST EXP: 415599
LVL EXP: 22337873
CP: 63230.7
VIZ: 1196237

I agree that there is nothing wrong about it from a political standpoint; I believe that if satan ran for office, people would elect him. That being said, why is this in the Christian Conservatives forum and not in the Debate/ Logic forum?

---

(last edited by tRIUNE on 05-11-12 11:21 PM)

Hero of Hyrule

"Romans 12:1-3"
Affected by 'Carpal Tunnel Syndrome'

Position: Admin
Role: RGR Staff Manager

Since: 06-09-10
Last Post: 4 hours
Last Active: 13 min.

Hoochman
Level: 66


POSTS: 1586/1669
POST EXP: 63636
LVL EXP: 2344442
CP: 72.5
VIZ: 111051

soxfan849 : Homosexual marriage would do more to hurt us culturally and morally than benefit us culturally and morally.  For one thing, if we allowed gay marriage and than compared it along side to heterosexual marriage, you find the divorce rate among gays a lot higher. Promiscuity is the factor here. Not only that, but the likeliness of contracting diseases goes up in gay relationships. There is also a higher rate of violence. There is just a lot less stability in a gay relationships. I think for the sake of morals, this should not be endorsed. Like I said, I have nothing against gays. But I think this is detrimental to society.

Kung Lao

Member
Affected by 'Laziness'

Position: Member
Since: 02-25-10
From: Minnesota
Last Post: 48 days
Last Active: 6 hours

soxfan849
Level: 57


POSTS: 581/1362
POST EXP: 190602
LVL EXP: 1477639
CP: 1828.2
VIZ: 177829

Hoochman :

Do you have any sources to back those claims?

The Reaper
Affected by 'Laziness'

Position: Local
Since: 01-09-11
From: soxfan849
Last Post: 8 days
Last Active: 14 hours

Hoochman
Level: 66


POSTS: 1587/1669
POST EXP: 63636
LVL EXP: 2344442
CP: 72.5
VIZ: 111051

Sure, Carm.org, wpaa.org are some.

Kung Lao

Member
Affected by 'Laziness'

Position: Member
Since: 02-25-10
From: Minnesota
Last Post: 48 days
Last Active: 6 hours

Twin974
Level: 20


POSTS: 29/157
POST EXP: 4945
LVL EXP: 38526
CP: 1.0
VIZ: 6024

I am sorry, I don't want offend anybody but, I am against gay marriage because, GOD created man and woman not man and man. Besides it is a abomination to GOD and it says so in the Bible. I don't really care people do what they want its there soul. Just accept Jesus as your lord and savior, repent and accept the fact that he died for all of are sins.

Jax
O.G. Twin
Affected by 'Laziness'

Position: Member
Since: 05-04-12
From: E. st. Louis IL
Last Post: 328 days
Last Active: 51 days

thenumberone
Level: 102


POSTS: 4147/5314
POST EXP: 262226
LVL EXP: 10905766
CP: 2226.8
VIZ: 183230

soxfan849 : he replied.
funny, i hear gays havd a LOWER divorce rate.
additionaly marriage wont affect disease spread, they still have sew without mariage...
As for the violence claim, iv never heard that, ever. I think this is fabrication.
And those sites are dictated by religion, its biased.

in my end is my begining
Affected by 'Trooperness'

Position: Elite
Since: 03-22-11
From: Scotland(the cold,wet place)
Last Post: 11 hours
Last Active: 52 min.

tRIUNE
Level: 125


POSTS: 4560/7733
POST EXP: 415599
LVL EXP: 22337873
CP: 63230.7
VIZ: 1196237

I'm moving this to Debate forum - this has nothing to do with Christianity.

Hero of Hyrule

"Romans 12:1-3"
Affected by 'Carpal Tunnel Syndrome'

Position: Admin
Role: RGR Staff Manager

Since: 06-09-10
Last Post: 4 hours
Last Active: 13 min.

Hoochman
Level: 66


POSTS: 1588/1669
POST EXP: 63636
LVL EXP: 2344442
CP: 72.5
VIZ: 111051

thenumberone : "And those sites are dictated by religion, its biased." I
think the exact same thing about pro gay and secular websites you
probably believe in.

If you're gonna discredit an organization,
bring actual facts to the table, and not just because some secular site
said differently. A lot of this stuff is said by even people who are
former gays. These facts are not in anyway surprising because some have admitted to them.

Kung Lao

Member
Affected by 'Laziness'

Position: Member
Since: 02-25-10
From: Minnesota
Last Post: 48 days
Last Active: 6 hours

thenumberone
Level: 102


POSTS: 4148/5314
POST EXP: 262226
LVL EXP: 10905766
CP: 2226.8
VIZ: 183230

Hoochman
government and organisational surveys that have findings in support of them dont make it secular.
Your first site was so clearly biased it was unbelievable, and the 2nd, while more subtle, had obviously religious undetones.

links then:

http://www.talk2action.org/story/2008/5/18/155516/198
http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2011/07/06/divorce-rates-lower-in-states-with-same-sex-marriage
http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com/2012/04/why-do-lesbians-divorce-more-than-gay-men-.html
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/frederick-hertz/divorce-marriage-rates-fo_b_1085024.html

This article highlights the fact that religious groups get divorced far more than gays
http://www.alternet.org/newsandviews/article/927753/hey_fox,_what_about_this_%22war_on_marriage%22_divorce_rate_are_highest_among_evangelicals/

This article is interesting, you should observe the pictures...
http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/gay-marriage-states-lowest-divorce-rates-bible-belt-has-highest/question-2354629/

less health problems in gays after civil UNIONs/marriages allowed:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-16203621

equality is something to be proud of, not ashamed of:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/uk-is-best-place-in-europe-to-be-gay-7742348.html

---

(last edited by thenumberone on 05-14-12 11:39 AM)

in my end is my begining
Affected by 'Trooperness'

Position: Elite
Since: 03-22-11
From: Scotland(the cold,wet place)
Last Post: 11 hours
Last Active: 52 min.

Hoochman
Level: 66


POSTS: 1591/1669
POST EXP: 63636
LVL EXP: 2344442
CP: 72.5
VIZ: 111051

thenumberone : The idea that we have to submit to something just because it has more phds behind it is ridiculous. In case you weren't reading my last comment, I said bring overwhelming proof that my sites are wrong. Not just they're christian. I think I'll stick with my sites. They get this stuff from studies and former homosexuals.Try again.

Kung Lao

Member
Affected by 'Laziness'

Position: Member
Since: 02-25-10
From: Minnesota
Last Post: 48 days
Last Active: 6 hours

thenumberone
Level: 102


POSTS: 4149/5314
POST EXP: 262226
LVL EXP: 10905766
CP: 2226.8
VIZ: 183230

Hoochman
Bring proof your sites are right.
Take this one:
http://carm.org/gay-marriage-harm
they can sue on the basis of discrimination.
1, how gives a crap, you dont have to sleep with him, 2, unless you say you cant stay your gay then nothing could be proven.
2. health issues.
Well they never linked to the 'article' they 'quote' (how convenient) however my articles show that there health improves when they are accepted in society, additionally, poor health isnt fgrounds to bar marriage, if it was it would be illegal for war veterans or handicaped people to marry, or lets make it so blind people cant marry, they might commit suicide due to depression (facepalm).
Also, its saying aids is caused by gays.
Well how did straight people get it?either all gays slept with straight people, a few slept with straight people, who went on to sleep wuith a ton of other straight people, or it wasnt caused by gays.
If answer 1 then they clearly arent gay, if answer 2 then clearly straight people are the most immoral since they are sleeping around so much.
3.gay marriage means having the morality of the minority forced on the majority.
So when slavery was abolished, since the majority of people in the us didnt actually care for its abolition, africans should have continued as slaves?since its not a question of right or wrong but public opinion?
And no, it dosent. It being legal does not mean you have to act different, it dosent mean you have to marry them, churches can turn them away, all it means is they get equality (and im sure thats a great crime).
4.its attributing paedophiliea, prostitution and sex traficking to morale loosening.
Yeh, because it dosent have anything to do with population growth and economic globalisation. Obviously gays are criminal kingpins, modern day mob bosses.
5.effects population birth...
Wow, retarded dosent explain it.  1, the earth is STILL growing, 2, Banning gay marriage wont suddenly make gays straight, they wont have kids one way or the other.
6.Stress imposed on religious people... are you serious, because you dont agree its an attack on you?i dont agree with guns being legal, the usa having them is stressfull to me, i demand you destroy them all...
7. it forces government to change laws.
thats the point of a government, omg, whats in the water those guys were drinking?
"Homosexuality is being force fed to our youth via the education system."
You still teach creationism in half the schools, yet not evolution. No its christianity that is being forced onto people, but i dont see complaints about that, oh the hypocrisy.
8It exposes adopted children within potential homosexual UNIONs to ridicule from others.
So, gays, who if allowed to marry would often adopt meaning less orphans, are a problem because intolerant people would make fun of them, upseting them more than having no familly, so we should all be totally intolerant and ban it, so they cant face intolerance.
Now that, is a paradox, and a retarded one at that.

That entire article is baseless scaremongering, i have rebuked every point they made, Show me these studies and former homosexuals. My sites, which you probably never even looked at, were full of statistics, quotes and evidence, yours were too completely obscure sites, one of which is in frikin india, which used scare tactics and presented no actual evidence.




"Try again."

---

(last edited by thenumberone on 05-14-12 12:26 PM)

in my end is my begining
Affected by 'Trooperness'

Position: Elite
Since: 03-22-11
From: Scotland(the cold,wet place)
Last Post: 11 hours
Last Active: 52 min.

Markeith21
Level: 76


POSTS: 1599/2601
POST EXP: 56193
LVL EXP: 3859620
CP: 26.7
VIZ: 28622

I'm really against gay marriages to be honest. I don't like the idea of two guys getting married, it sounds kind of ridiculous.

Geist

Trusted Member
Affected by 'Laziness'

Position: Trusted
Since: 01-27-11
From: Tuscaloosa, AL
Last Post: 64 days
Last Active: 7 days