geeogree
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I've been reading a book recently that delves into the topic of evil and what it is and whether or not it truly exists.

I think most of us would agree that there have been some truly evil people in the world (Hitler, Stalin, etc. etc). Those are blatant and obvious because of how overtly evil looking they are.


What I'm wondering is about every day evil. Does it exist? Are people evil or just self-centred? Is that the same thing or are there differences?

How would you define evil if you had to?

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Evil exists, but not in and of itself. It's a privation of good. You can have good without evil, but you can't have evil without good...I'd say that being self-centered is the same as evil.

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geeogree
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"You can have good without evil, but you can't have evil without good"

This statement seems contradictory. You say one can exist without the other but the other can't exist without the one.

I would say that neither can exist without the other but that's just my opinion.

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The syllogism there is valid, but I think it makes more sense to say that evil is the lack of good than to say good is the lack of evil. While this statement can definitely be seen as contradictory, I like to think of evil as a parasite of good, while good cannot be a parasite of evil.

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Evil is in the eye of the beholder.

We see things as evil because of the way we are wired, yet some people are wired differently and see different things as evil.

That said, evil is just a way of saying something isn't good in any way shape or form.

All actions have a little good in them, these actions aren't purely evil. If an action causes nothing but pain, then it is evil.

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legacyme3: I'm not so sure about those first two points. I think wherever you go, the same things are seen as evil. Rape, murder, theft - are any of these endorsed by a single government or country? 

If everyone was raised in a good home with plenty of food, water, health, and love around them, how many evil people would spring up? The point that I'm trying to make is that there is a reason that someone commits a crime. If you go back enough, the reason could be that they only stole because they didn't have enough money to feed their family or perhaps they accidentally killed someone during an argument, who knows? If you ever read up on the lives of serial killers, most of them had problems in their household (no parents, abusive parents, etc.). Sure, there are some people who were born with their brains not quite right, but that is such a small fraction of people. I honestly believe that no matter how many bad actions a person commits, deep down, there's good.

Things happen that we have little control over. Most evil is the result of such a circumstance. If someone does something bad or is truly evil, then the only way to fight it is with the opposite, love and understanding. I read a quote from the writings of Lanza del Vasto that I say to myself on a daily basis that goes something like this: "Good ends can only be justified by good means." If we go all tooth for a tooth/Hammurabi on someone who did wrong, aren't we just as wrong?

tRIUNE : I'm not quite sure if that is a true case of syllogism but I like the quote regardless. It makes it sound like good will ultimately always triumph over evil because true good is independent. 

---

(last edited by NotJon on 11-26-11 06:52 PM)

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I always thought of evil as a person with out any true moral or and may do horrible things or nothing at all

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Well, given that you said that you are looking for evil outside of people who are particularly obvious, it is hard to answer. Any time you talk about murderers, rapists, etc like a few others have been bringing up, you are bringing up particularly evil people. I do agree with leggy that evil is in the eye of the beholder. Even though Jon brought up acts that are not endorsed, endorsement by a government or country does not determine if something is evil. The Nazi group was a form of government, and they truly did not believe that what they were doing was evil. This is seen all throughout history. The Crusades slaughtered more than the Nazis and the Catholics thought they were doing the work of God, thereby, making their actions pure. So it really is in the eye of the beholder.

 In my opinion, one of the best examples of everyday evil would be the general intolerance that people generally have towards those that are too different from themselves. A lot of the people who consider themselves tolerant can be faced with a choice or way of life that they would look down on another for following that path when it isn't an issue that effects everyone else. I won't get into examples so to not distract from the point of the thread. 

So I do believe that everyday evil exists because it is human nature to reject things different from them, and it is hard to just turn that off.

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Yes, I do think there is evil, and it kinda spawns off of what rcarter2 said. I wouldn't say that the intolerance itself is the evil, but the spreading of it, the twisting any information that might be contradictory to that intolerance so that people do not enlighten themselves (i.e. vicious propaganda) ... that I think is evil.

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According to the book I've been reading these are the main characteristics of an evil person:

- Is consistently self deceiving, with the intent of avoiding guilt and maintaining a self image of perfection
- Deceives others as a consequence of their own self deception
- Projects his or her evils and sins onto very specific targets (scapegoats) while being apparently normal with everyone else ("their insensitivity toward him was selective")
- Commonly hates with the pretense of love, for the purposes of self deception as much as deception of others
- Abuses political (emotional) power ("the imposition of one's will upon others by overt or covert coercion"
- Maintains a high level of respectability and lies incessantly in order to do so
- Is consistent in his or her sins. Evil persons are characterized not so much by the magnitude of their sins, but by their consistency (of destructiveness)
- Is unable to think from the viewpoint of their victim (scapegoat)
- Has a covert intolerance to criticism and other forms of narcissistic injury


I'm not sure what other people feel about this sort of a definition (or description) of an evil person but I feel like it fits pretty well. I also don't think that it's possible to really have just 1 or 2 of these characteristics and not the others. I think they all develop more or less together in varying degrees.

---

(last edited by geeogree on 11-27-11 09:47 AM)

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Evil exists, but it doesn't exist as something substantive, like it is not a thing that can exist in of itself. Evil is the absence of Good.

This type of understanding can be shown in parallel with other aspects. For example, we can describe what is hot and what is cold, but heat is something that we can say that substantially exists. When something is cold, it is because it is an absences of heat. It is incorrect for someone to say that something is cold because it gained "coldness." In the same way, we can only define something to be evil because of the fact that we can say that it is something that is not good. We need to define what is good before defining what is evil.

tRIUNE : Same with what you said, but you are quoting Augustine. Nice!

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play4fun :
I'm posting from a new account...hopefully this will be my only post from this one until I can log back into my original... anyway, what I've posted was just a reference from (somebody) since I can't recall what book I've read it from (I just gather thoughts a lot of times from what I've read).

Another example wold be that rust cannot exist without metal, or a wound can't exist without someone or something for the wound to be on...

I didn't know Augustine said the same, lol

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Nick cleg...
As for evil its someone who goes against societys morals.

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play4fun : well, technically your detection of hot and cold are dependent on your relative temperature to those things so by your definition good and evil are a sliding scale based on personal "goodness". Just thought I would point that out.

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geeogree : right, that is personal detection, so in the same way that different people have different "feelings" of what is cold or what is hot, people have their own personal feelings of what is good and what is evil. However, scientifically speaking, there is a standard of what is hot and what is cold, and that is the quantity of how much heat one has. Heat is basically energy, so the more heat a substances has would make the substance to be a higher temperature. In the same way, substances with less heat would have a lower temperature. That is why it is incorrect to say "add some cold" to an object. The heat standard also shows that most people would most likely agree with extreme cases of the spectrum. The closer an object is towards the temperature of absolute zero (no heat), the more likely people are going to say that the object is cold. The closer an object is towards the temperature from extreme amounts of heat (like say, a star), the more likely people are going to agree that an object is hot.

In the same way, different people may have different degrees of how they feel of whether something is good or evil in their opinion. But there would be an ultimate standard of what is good and what is evil (absence of good). And if you ask people the more extreme scenarios of whether something is good or not, most likely you would get a more confident and resounding answer of whether something is good or evil. For example, if you ask someone if killing someone with no apparent reason is good or evil, most likely people will say that the action is evil. If you ask people if helping an old lady from crossing the street is good or evil, most likely people would say the action is good. So as people, we have relative "feelings" of whether something is good or evil, but there is an ultimate standard that defines what is good and what is evil, which relates to what we mean when we are saying whether evil exists: Evil exists, but not as an actual "thing" and not by itself. The concept exists because the concept is the lack of something that exists, which is good. Evil is the absence of good.

Of course, analogies are analogies. They won't describe everything perfectly.

tRIUNe_2 :
tRIUNE :
I would say St. Augustine was the oldest person who gave this philosophy, which is why this view is named after him. He did write a book that contains that view called "Confessions."

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Everyone is evil, how evil you are depends on how much of a puppet or deceiver you are to others. If you are following orders in military or from your boss that means the only evil thing you can do is disobey their orders. If Hitler wants you to kill some jews is he the evil one? Or are you the evil one for not using common sense and morals?

Agreeing with someone is considered evil because evil rises when 2 or more people agree with one another. The most evil one person can do is rape, murder or extortion but if you got a massive following you can commit genocide and deceive millions easily.

I'm not saying its evil to agree, but in the masses it most likely is. That is how Nazi's rose to power, how US military has so many soldiers, how so many people go out and vote for scumbags into office, how giant corrupt corporations rule our lives, how celebrities get rich and famous.

If you go ask people if they are evil they will most likely say no.
If you go into a business and ask if its a scam they will say no.

The point is you can trust them and wait to be deceived, or consider them evil from the getgo and you got nothing to worry about really. Remember evil rises when you agree with one another, whether your a customer, employee, voter or whatever.

Working at walmart is no different then putting on a Nazi suit and working for Hitler. You should know what to expect. You cant escape evil, but you should at least be aware of it and not be so shocked when it reveals itself.

I'm sure you hear it all the time in news when someone goes nuts and kills others then their mothers or neighbors are interviewed and always say "I never expected him to do that in my wildest dreams, he was always a good guy." That is what happens when you are not aware that evil is everywhere and in everyone.

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Nazis are a prime example of the word evil, infact hitler defines the word

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When the dead speaks to you telepathically giving you commands that you normally don't follow to your morales.They're hidden to the living since the dead been around for the longest.They spent  time and hell which is located in the core of the earth  . Earth is populated by  trillions of humans and animals.  Since Evil been around before we came.Demons which aren't seen any life form can possessed or play with the living just for a brief amount of time or as long as a person can live.To them you are vulnerable to suffer any sorts of pain .They hate all living form and is willing to destroy all life form.When you don't sense any source of evil that's when they do the deed with the living and by putting and others in harm way.

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Evil Is Complicated. You Aren't Born With It But You Can Gain It Throughout Life. Demons Can Speak To You And Control You To Do Certain Things Like Murder And Robbery. Evil Kinda Possesses You And Sticks With You For Your'e Entire Life Unless You Fight It And Think Happy Thoughts.

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