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rlmathias01
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The Boondock Saints
06-04-11 06:36 PM
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In the movie The Boondock Saints, two brothers become vigilantes who kill those people who commit horrible crimes. They don't just randomly kill people, it's only "bad guys". Let's pretend some similar vigilantes popped up in a big city. What do you think of this? Are they right? Or are they misguided? Should they be put in jail? I personally agree with them to some extent, but we have a court system for a reason. Do I think they should be punished as harshly as some other criminals, no, but they still shouldn't be excused. (If I put this into the wrong forum, I'm sorry. I just thought of this as a debate, so I put it here.) I personally agree with them to some extent, but we have a court system for a reason. Do I think they should be punished as harshly as some other criminals, no, but they still shouldn't be excused. (If I put this into the wrong forum, I'm sorry. I just thought of this as a debate, so I put it here.) |
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06-04-11 09:18 PM
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rlmathias01 : iv not seen this movie but i can only assume vigilantes generaly arise due to corruption and lack of effort in the law force of that area so if they cant be arrested what else can you do.death though,what kind of horendous crimes are we talking about here,robbery, assault or murder. The thing about murder is sometimes its an acident,others the criminal lost control and will regret there actions for the rest of there lives.lastly many murderes are victims themselves,no money,no family and no one thats ever cared for them,victims of society.if we are talking people who enjoy killing/have no problem killing then in a corrupt society maybe its best to get them out of the way. |
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06-04-11 10:27 PM
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Here are two quotes from th e movies that might help shed some light on them: "Il Duce: Never shall innocent blood be shed, yet the blood of the wicked shall flow like a river. The Three shall spread their blackened wings and be the vengeful striking hammer of God." "Connor: Now you will receive us. Murphy: We do not ask for your poor, or your hungry. Connor: We do not want your tired and sick. Murphy: It is your corrupt we claim. Connor: It is your evil that will be sought by us. Murphy: With every breath we shall hunt them down. Connor: Each day, we will spill their blood till it rains down from the skies. Murphy: Do not kill, do not rape, do not steal, these are principles which every man of every faith can embrace. Connor: These are not polite suggestions, these are codes of behavior and those of you that ignore them will pay the dearest cost. Murphy: There are varying degrees of evil, we urge you lesser forms of filth not to push the bounds and cross over, into true corruption, into our domain. Connor: For if you do, one day you will look behind you and you will see we three. And on that day, you will reap it. Murphy: And we will send you to whatever god you wish. [Murphy and Conner join II Duce behind Yakavetta] Connor, Murphy, Il Duce: And shepherds we shall be, for Thee, my Lord, for Thee. Power hath descended forth from Thy hand. Yakavetta: Vaffanculo Connor, Murphy, Il Duce: That our feet may swiftly carry out Thy command. So we shall flow a river forth to Thee, and teeming with souls shall it ever be. Il Duce: In nomine Patri. Connor: Et Fili. Murphy: Spiritus Sancti. [they execute Yakavetta] " "Il Duce: Never shall innocent blood be shed, yet the blood of the wicked shall flow like a river. The Three shall spread their blackened wings and be the vengeful striking hammer of God." "Connor: Now you will receive us. Murphy: We do not ask for your poor, or your hungry. Connor: We do not want your tired and sick. Murphy: It is your corrupt we claim. Connor: It is your evil that will be sought by us. Murphy: With every breath we shall hunt them down. Connor: Each day, we will spill their blood till it rains down from the skies. Murphy: Do not kill, do not rape, do not steal, these are principles which every man of every faith can embrace. Connor: These are not polite suggestions, these are codes of behavior and those of you that ignore them will pay the dearest cost. Murphy: There are varying degrees of evil, we urge you lesser forms of filth not to push the bounds and cross over, into true corruption, into our domain. Connor: For if you do, one day you will look behind you and you will see we three. And on that day, you will reap it. Murphy: And we will send you to whatever god you wish. [Murphy and Conner join II Duce behind Yakavetta] Connor, Murphy, Il Duce: And shepherds we shall be, for Thee, my Lord, for Thee. Power hath descended forth from Thy hand. Yakavetta: Vaffanculo Connor, Murphy, Il Duce: That our feet may swiftly carry out Thy command. So we shall flow a river forth to Thee, and teeming with souls shall it ever be. Il Duce: In nomine Patri. Connor: Et Fili. Murphy: Spiritus Sancti. [they execute Yakavetta] " |
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06-05-11 06:21 AM
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Vigilantism: Is it right to out right kill those who commit horrible crimes? Injustice can happen with and/or without a state court system. A court that declares a murderer not guilty (denies justice to victim) or sentences a shoplifter with a long rap to years (not remotely proportional to the crime), that isn't justice. As for whether vigilantism is wrong, well, vigilantes can be wrong, but it seems to me an injustice for the government to declare itself the only legitimate source of law and order. Injustice can happen with and/or without a state court system. A court that declares a murderer not guilty (denies justice to victim) or sentences a shoplifter with a long rap to years (not remotely proportional to the crime), that isn't justice. As for whether vigilantism is wrong, well, vigilantes can be wrong, but it seems to me an injustice for the government to declare itself the only legitimate source of law and order. |
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(edited by TheMichaelOnline on 06-05-11 07:02 AM)
06-05-11 06:35 AM
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rlmathias01 : that first part sounded similar to the bible.
I like how the 2nd one is at the start,basicaly an inverted declaration from the statue of liberty (which represents the gates and ideals of america) It essentialy says give me your hungry and poor Your tired and your sick etc, so theres some hidden meaning in that quote. Perhaps that is to make them seem like the towering protective giant.come to claim those that have breached there rights to be american. Killing robbers and thiefs is too heavy handed i think.if the law is completely corrup i would say beating those type up would be justified but we cant really draw a clear line between good and evil,no one aspires to become a common thief,but without a job do they have a choice? I like how the 2nd one is at the start,basicaly an inverted declaration from the statue of liberty (which represents the gates and ideals of america) It essentialy says give me your hungry and poor Your tired and your sick etc, so theres some hidden meaning in that quote. Perhaps that is to make them seem like the towering protective giant.come to claim those that have breached there rights to be american. Killing robbers and thiefs is too heavy handed i think.if the law is completely corrup i would say beating those type up would be justified but we cant really draw a clear line between good and evil,no one aspires to become a common thief,but without a job do they have a choice? |
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06-06-11 04:59 PM
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thenumberone : The funny thing is that they are endorsed by the Church(well the Catholic Church anyway) and are supported by many people. They are very religious and the last half of that second quote is actually their family prayer that they say before they kill someone. Since you haven't seen the movies, I would highly recommend them. They really make you think about what's right and wrong.
TheMichaelOnline : I agree with you to an extent that it is kind of unfair that the government is the only one who can decide if something is right or wrong, but then who else should have that power? The government is at least made up of a ton of unbiased people who work together to make a decision on whether or not someone should go to jail or not. Granted it's very flawed, but should it be up to just two people or more people to just decide that someone is guilty? (Sorry, had to play devil's advocate a little bit. ![]() TheMichaelOnline : I agree with you to an extent that it is kind of unfair that the government is the only one who can decide if something is right or wrong, but then who else should have that power? The government is at least made up of a ton of unbiased people who work together to make a decision on whether or not someone should go to jail or not. Granted it's very flawed, but should it be up to just two people or more people to just decide that someone is guilty? (Sorry, had to play devil's advocate a little bit. ![]() |
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06-07-11 09:41 PM
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rlmathias01 :
but then who else should have that power? The individuals involved, respecting the physical integrity of others and their property in order to go about the business of living. If rights are violated, such as someone trying to steal or murder, then they have the right also to take action against the violator relevant to his degree of aggression at that time. If he escapes, they have the right to pursue him personally or by the help of others and detain him. Punishments may vary; perhaps he isn't incarcerated, but he has to give them money, wear a GPS tracker to restrict his movement and so on. Private police and courts would probably develop to pursue, investigate and judge, but they don't declare jurisdiction over you like you belong to them - you are truly innocent until proven guilty; you are brought before them if you were caught to be proven a violator, or they may be charged with finding out if someone who is still walking around unjudged is a violator, or finding and investing someone accused of such, and so on. (In my view, taxing people is a violation of rights.) It is likely that governments will still be involved... they aren't likely to go away. So, IMHO, at the very least victims or those who speak for them, should have more say in the addressing of wrongs through restitution, arbitration and mediation, forgiveness, or whatever, instead of incarceration if they want. The government is at least made up of a ton of unbiased people who work together Governments are just the people who have most of the control over the state. They change over time. They aren't unbiased, benevolent, enlightened beings with good intentions for all. The people who get get such positions, IMHO, tend to want power over others and tend to be much worse than the average person. but then who else should have that power? The individuals involved, respecting the physical integrity of others and their property in order to go about the business of living. If rights are violated, such as someone trying to steal or murder, then they have the right also to take action against the violator relevant to his degree of aggression at that time. If he escapes, they have the right to pursue him personally or by the help of others and detain him. Punishments may vary; perhaps he isn't incarcerated, but he has to give them money, wear a GPS tracker to restrict his movement and so on. Private police and courts would probably develop to pursue, investigate and judge, but they don't declare jurisdiction over you like you belong to them - you are truly innocent until proven guilty; you are brought before them if you were caught to be proven a violator, or they may be charged with finding out if someone who is still walking around unjudged is a violator, or finding and investing someone accused of such, and so on. (In my view, taxing people is a violation of rights.) It is likely that governments will still be involved... they aren't likely to go away. So, IMHO, at the very least victims or those who speak for them, should have more say in the addressing of wrongs through restitution, arbitration and mediation, forgiveness, or whatever, instead of incarceration if they want. The government is at least made up of a ton of unbiased people who work together Governments are just the people who have most of the control over the state. They change over time. They aren't unbiased, benevolent, enlightened beings with good intentions for all. The people who get get such positions, IMHO, tend to want power over others and tend to be much worse than the average person. |
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(edited by TheMichaelOnline on 06-07-11 09:50 PM)
06-10-11 08:22 AM
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A lot of the justice system is messed up lawyers only act to put Penny's in their pocket not actually solve who's committed the crime. The world would work a lot better if everything was done scientifically but even then you get opposition and the way history repeats itself has shown that if you cant get something in the real world you go underground just like vigilantes this has dated back to imperialism and probably ages before then too so i completely agree with vigilantes as long as they don't get drunk on power |
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06-11-11 11:47 PM
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I think the idea is nice that people who are evil are executed swiftly and without the red tape of law. It would be wonderful if it were that easy.
Unfortunately, it isn't. Our country (U.S.) promises people the opportunity to defend themselves in court. Vigilantism is a terrible thing. What if they get it wrong? That's my question. What if this group of people kills a man who everyone thought committed a crime and he was truly innocent. That threat is what stops our society from just going out and killing people for perceived or real crimes. Plus, what is bad enough that someone dies? Where's the line? I think that turns a society into a martial law society and no one feels safe or comfortable. I would be against them as much as I would hope it would work. I think the idea is nice that people who are evil are executed swiftly and without the red tape of law. It would be wonderful if it were that easy.
Unfortunately, it isn't. Our country (U.S.) promises people the opportunity to defend themselves in court. Vigilantism is a terrible thing. What if they get it wrong? That's my question. What if this group of people kills a man who everyone thought committed a crime and he was truly innocent. That threat is what stops our society from just going out and killing people for perceived or real crimes. Plus, what is bad enough that someone dies? Where's the line? I think that turns a society into a martial law society and no one feels safe or comfortable. I would be against them as much as I would hope it would work. |
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06-11-11 11:57 PM
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Ha ha ha ha NO!
Here is my reasoning. Firstly if they are killing people who are 'bad' what if they really aren't? I mean what if the 'saints' are pretty messed up in the head and kill whoever they want. I believe they should be put in jail mainly because it is dangerous. I like the thought just how it would be done would lead to nothing but problems. Here is my reasoning. Firstly if they are killing people who are 'bad' what if they really aren't? I mean what if the 'saints' are pretty messed up in the head and kill whoever they want. I believe they should be put in jail mainly because it is dangerous. I like the thought just how it would be done would lead to nothing but problems. |
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