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Alternative fuels.

 

12-21-10 07:43 AM
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Is it not about time we stopped burning fossil fuels, there is better technoogy out there but the oil companies put a halt on the technology to sell more oil, this is true, there are alternative to what we know I took the time to do a little research into patents filed for this and found there are fuel alternatives that are credible, my solution stop using our cars for 1 week, really hit them at the pumps! If only we could, fuel costs wold fall and alternatives would be cheaper nad more readily available.
Is it not about time we stopped burning fossil fuels, there is better technoogy out there but the oil companies put a halt on the technology to sell more oil, this is true, there are alternative to what we know I took the time to do a little research into patents filed for this and found there are fuel alternatives that are credible, my solution stop using our cars for 1 week, really hit them at the pumps! If only we could, fuel costs wold fall and alternatives would be cheaper nad more readily available.
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12-21-10 08:06 AM
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Personally I think alternative fuels will be great, but the big oil companies will never allow them to become widely available. Not unless there's a shortage on oil. It's sad but the oil companies just hold too much power in most of the largest Governments in the world.
Personally I think alternative fuels will be great, but the big oil companies will never allow them to become widely available. Not unless there's a shortage on oil. It's sad but the oil companies just hold too much power in most of the largest Governments in the world.
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06-11-11 12:56 PM
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We need to find alternative energy sources and not alternative fuels, as any fuel will still cause pollution and is a non-renewable resource. Any non-renewable resource has the potential to be owned/sold in a monopoly , like our current fossil fuels. The only fuel that would be renewable would be plant based bio-fuels. The most common of these is corn , but the problem is that it isn't a very sustainable system. It isn't very practical to grow the amount of corn needed to fuel everything. And the pollution would still be a problem.

The most logical solution is to use renewable energy sources and convert them into electricity. The most abundant energy source is the sun, but the problem there is our ability to turn it into electricity. Although it would work for powering houses, it wouldn't work so well for machinery as there power requirements are much higher. Hydro-power has been used for a long time, but I don't see this option as very practical either. Using water creates environmental problems, plus the fact that the water is some what non-renewable. I have seen places starting to use the ocean instead of rivers, so it is possibly a viable option. Another fairly new trend (well new for making electricity anyways) is wind power.  This is definitely a better option than water as it isn't as much of an environmental hazard. If we could only stop the damn birds from flying into the things! lol Also, the wind is a little less predictable than other sources.

In my opinion the best option is geothermal energy. This is one of the more unknown technologies as far as energy. It usually includes putting piping or coils in the ground to gather heat through conduction (or in select cases to gather coldness for air conditioning/refrigeration) I haven't crunched the numbers, or will I , but there should be more than enough energy. If we were to install conductors in highly geothermal active areas such as volcanoes , geysers , hot springs, and probably others that I am missing, there should be more than enough heat/steam produced to turn turbines. Problems with this model would be smaller countries with no access to highly active areas would  have to buy electricity or land from other countries, although I'm sure there are small countries that all ready do this. For instance Canada and usa share their power grid on the east side.This in my opinion is the most logical .

I have my own theory that we can create electricity from magnets spinning a turbine, but I don't have much of a background in this area. Also it would be hard to find a big enough amount of magnets to do this. Maybe one day with the right technology. *takes out loan to buy patent*
We need to find alternative energy sources and not alternative fuels, as any fuel will still cause pollution and is a non-renewable resource. Any non-renewable resource has the potential to be owned/sold in a monopoly , like our current fossil fuels. The only fuel that would be renewable would be plant based bio-fuels. The most common of these is corn , but the problem is that it isn't a very sustainable system. It isn't very practical to grow the amount of corn needed to fuel everything. And the pollution would still be a problem.

The most logical solution is to use renewable energy sources and convert them into electricity. The most abundant energy source is the sun, but the problem there is our ability to turn it into electricity. Although it would work for powering houses, it wouldn't work so well for machinery as there power requirements are much higher. Hydro-power has been used for a long time, but I don't see this option as very practical either. Using water creates environmental problems, plus the fact that the water is some what non-renewable. I have seen places starting to use the ocean instead of rivers, so it is possibly a viable option. Another fairly new trend (well new for making electricity anyways) is wind power.  This is definitely a better option than water as it isn't as much of an environmental hazard. If we could only stop the damn birds from flying into the things! lol Also, the wind is a little less predictable than other sources.

In my opinion the best option is geothermal energy. This is one of the more unknown technologies as far as energy. It usually includes putting piping or coils in the ground to gather heat through conduction (or in select cases to gather coldness for air conditioning/refrigeration) I haven't crunched the numbers, or will I , but there should be more than enough energy. If we were to install conductors in highly geothermal active areas such as volcanoes , geysers , hot springs, and probably others that I am missing, there should be more than enough heat/steam produced to turn turbines. Problems with this model would be smaller countries with no access to highly active areas would  have to buy electricity or land from other countries, although I'm sure there are small countries that all ready do this. For instance Canada and usa share their power grid on the east side.This in my opinion is the most logical .

I have my own theory that we can create electricity from magnets spinning a turbine, but I don't have much of a background in this area. Also it would be hard to find a big enough amount of magnets to do this. Maybe one day with the right technology. *takes out loan to buy patent*
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06-11-11 05:58 PM
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smotpoker86 :  I like pretty much everything you've said but I have a one questions to ask about your opinion on bio-fuels.  How do you think pollution could still be a problem?  Bio-fuels to not give off any emissions, or so I have heard.

I do agree that we do not need to continually grow corn just for bio-fuels; we should have a good supply with all the vegetable oil used in fast foods chains.  
smotpoker86 :  I like pretty much everything you've said but I have a one questions to ask about your opinion on bio-fuels.  How do you think pollution could still be a problem?  Bio-fuels to not give off any emissions, or so I have heard.

I do agree that we do not need to continually grow corn just for bio-fuels; we should have a good supply with all the vegetable oil used in fast foods chains.  
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06-11-11 11:50 PM
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1.  Not using cars for a week won't help anything.  A week later, you'll fill up your tank and carry on, citizen.  What you need to do is stop using your car as much.

2.  There are renewable resources for energy but they are too expensive and people aren't using them.  Oil is cheap to produce and everyone uses it.  As other technologies become less expensive, you'll see more of them.  Otherwise, stop using your car as much.  That's a nice way to do it.

3.  Oil companies are often publicly owned.  People like you and me have stock investments and want to see the companies make as much money as possible.  I root for gas companies because they make me money.
1.  Not using cars for a week won't help anything.  A week later, you'll fill up your tank and carry on, citizen.  What you need to do is stop using your car as much.

2.  There are renewable resources for energy but they are too expensive and people aren't using them.  Oil is cheap to produce and everyone uses it.  As other technologies become less expensive, you'll see more of them.  Otherwise, stop using your car as much.  That's a nice way to do it.

3.  Oil companies are often publicly owned.  People like you and me have stock investments and want to see the companies make as much money as possible.  I root for gas companies because they make me money.
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06-12-11 06:31 PM
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AuraBlaze : Of course Bio fuels will still give off emissions. Burning anything gives off emissions. Although bio diesel will give off less emissions there is no way to eliminate all of the emissions. I will quote a website I just looked up on the matter, "Can bio diesel help mitigate “global warming”?
A 1998 bio diesel life cycle study, jointly sponsored by the US Department of Energy and the US Department of Agriculture, concluded bio diesel reduces net CO² emissions by 78 percent compared to petroleum diesel. This is due to bio diesel’s closed carbon cycle. The CO² released into the atmosphere when bio diesel is burned is recycled by growing plants, which are later processed into fuel..Is bio diesel safer than petroleum diesel? Scientific research confirms that bio diesel exhaust has a less harmful impact on human health than petroleum diesel fuel. Bio diesel emissions have decreased levels of polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAH) and nitrated PAH compounds that have been identified as potential cancer causing compounds. Test results indicate PAH compounds were reduced by 75 to 85 percent, with the exception of Benz(a)anthracite, which was reduced by roughly 50 percent. Targeted nap compounds were also reduced dramatically with bio diesel fuel, with 2-nitrofluorene and 1-nitropyrene reduced by 90 percent, and the rest of the nPAH compounds reduced to only trace levels."

That is from http://www.biodiesel.org/resources/faqs/

Here is an opposite view point stating that bio fuels will actually be worse for the environment. http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn13289-biofuels-emissions-may-be-worse-than-petrol.html
AuraBlaze : Of course Bio fuels will still give off emissions. Burning anything gives off emissions. Although bio diesel will give off less emissions there is no way to eliminate all of the emissions. I will quote a website I just looked up on the matter, "Can bio diesel help mitigate “global warming”?
A 1998 bio diesel life cycle study, jointly sponsored by the US Department of Energy and the US Department of Agriculture, concluded bio diesel reduces net CO² emissions by 78 percent compared to petroleum diesel. This is due to bio diesel’s closed carbon cycle. The CO² released into the atmosphere when bio diesel is burned is recycled by growing plants, which are later processed into fuel..Is bio diesel safer than petroleum diesel? Scientific research confirms that bio diesel exhaust has a less harmful impact on human health than petroleum diesel fuel. Bio diesel emissions have decreased levels of polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAH) and nitrated PAH compounds that have been identified as potential cancer causing compounds. Test results indicate PAH compounds were reduced by 75 to 85 percent, with the exception of Benz(a)anthracite, which was reduced by roughly 50 percent. Targeted nap compounds were also reduced dramatically with bio diesel fuel, with 2-nitrofluorene and 1-nitropyrene reduced by 90 percent, and the rest of the nPAH compounds reduced to only trace levels."

That is from http://www.biodiesel.org/resources/faqs/

Here is an opposite view point stating that bio fuels will actually be worse for the environment. http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn13289-biofuels-emissions-may-be-worse-than-petrol.html
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06-17-11 02:03 AM
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For transportation purposes, I think the best possible thing might just be a hybrid that uses an electric engine and wind power.  You use the car battery in order to get things going, and then use a turbine stored in the cars grill in order to recharge the battery and keep the car going by making use of the high speed winds generated by a moving car.  Not sure if this exists, but just something I think might be useful.

As for powering buildings and what not, I believe in cheap, clean, and safe nuclear technology.  The equipment they use to transport waste is sturdy enough not only to be hit by a train moving at 80 mph, but they tested it by taking aforementioned container and setting it on fire with jet fuel.  People might complain about groundwater eventually wearing down containers at the soon to be finished Yucca Mountain storage facility, but there's actually a bit of fridge logic in that YUCCA MOUNTAIN IS IN THE MIDDLE OF A FLIPPING DESERT.  For more of info, watch Penn and Teller's Bullsh*t, Nukes, Lesbians, and Hybrids.
For transportation purposes, I think the best possible thing might just be a hybrid that uses an electric engine and wind power.  You use the car battery in order to get things going, and then use a turbine stored in the cars grill in order to recharge the battery and keep the car going by making use of the high speed winds generated by a moving car.  Not sure if this exists, but just something I think might be useful.

As for powering buildings and what not, I believe in cheap, clean, and safe nuclear technology.  The equipment they use to transport waste is sturdy enough not only to be hit by a train moving at 80 mph, but they tested it by taking aforementioned container and setting it on fire with jet fuel.  People might complain about groundwater eventually wearing down containers at the soon to be finished Yucca Mountain storage facility, but there's actually a bit of fridge logic in that YUCCA MOUNTAIN IS IN THE MIDDLE OF A FLIPPING DESERT.  For more of info, watch Penn and Teller's Bullsh*t, Nukes, Lesbians, and Hybrids.
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06-17-11 05:19 AM
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gamegeek : the turbine thing has problems,it would increase air resistance and the energy created couldnt maintain it at highspeed,the more it slowed the less energy would be created,so it would slow even faster,maybe in addition to fuel burning so less fuel is needed.
As for nuclear i think that japan has shown the dangers.in europe we aim to have no nuclear stations by 2050 and to have halfed our carbon emisions,radioactive waste takes 10's of thousands of years to degrade,the likelyhood of any container lasting that long is slim.
for transport the best fuel is hydrogen.just now there are 2 problems.
1, we use more energy to make it than we do from using it in an engine.
2,it can be very volatile,much worse than an exploding gas tank,so there are dangers.
I think for that we should use natural energy to create hydrogen,or use natural energy to charge electric cars.
For houses etc we can use dams,solar,wind etc to create power,if it becomes cheaper house roofs could also be solar panels.
Other alternate fuels are natural gas/bio gas mainly methane,and alcohol(ethanol)which burns far cleaner than gas.
Both have disadvantages though,methanes quite toxic and engines would need to be converted to use it,plus it takes up a lot of room so regular refills would be needed.ethane is more volatile than petrol and it erodes engines quite badly.plus neither are totally clean.
In scotland the aim is to be 100 sustainable energy by 2050.due to the north sea and high winds this is certainly possible. Aparently we control over half of europes best wind and water energy sites,this needs to be exploited.
gamegeek : the turbine thing has problems,it would increase air resistance and the energy created couldnt maintain it at highspeed,the more it slowed the less energy would be created,so it would slow even faster,maybe in addition to fuel burning so less fuel is needed.
As for nuclear i think that japan has shown the dangers.in europe we aim to have no nuclear stations by 2050 and to have halfed our carbon emisions,radioactive waste takes 10's of thousands of years to degrade,the likelyhood of any container lasting that long is slim.
for transport the best fuel is hydrogen.just now there are 2 problems.
1, we use more energy to make it than we do from using it in an engine.
2,it can be very volatile,much worse than an exploding gas tank,so there are dangers.
I think for that we should use natural energy to create hydrogen,or use natural energy to charge electric cars.
For houses etc we can use dams,solar,wind etc to create power,if it becomes cheaper house roofs could also be solar panels.
Other alternate fuels are natural gas/bio gas mainly methane,and alcohol(ethanol)which burns far cleaner than gas.
Both have disadvantages though,methanes quite toxic and engines would need to be converted to use it,plus it takes up a lot of room so regular refills would be needed.ethane is more volatile than petrol and it erodes engines quite badly.plus neither are totally clean.
In scotland the aim is to be 100 sustainable energy by 2050.due to the north sea and high winds this is certainly possible. Aparently we control over half of europes best wind and water energy sites,this needs to be exploited.
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06-18-11 02:58 AM
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I think fossil fuels are likely to be important for centuries more, and that is a wonderful thing considering such have enabled people to dramatically improve lives.  

Yes, go ahead and don't use your car for a week. More gas for me. But, that isn't going to make other sources of energy competitive with fossil fuels.
I think fossil fuels are likely to be important for centuries more, and that is a wonderful thing considering such have enabled people to dramatically improve lives.  

Yes, go ahead and don't use your car for a week. More gas for me. But, that isn't going to make other sources of energy competitive with fossil fuels.
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(edited by TheMichaelOnline on 06-18-11 03:00 AM)    

06-18-11 01:34 PM
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TheMichaelOnline : maybe its improved your life but it hasnt improved the lifes of africans for example, where there are oil spills daily which  the companies refues to clean up, killing thousands.
no, there would be greater benefits for everyone with renewable fuels.
TheMichaelOnline : maybe its improved your life but it hasnt improved the lifes of africans for example, where there are oil spills daily which  the companies refues to clean up, killing thousands.
no, there would be greater benefits for everyone with renewable fuels.
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Right now, hydrogen fuel is still under development. Currently there's natural gas, vegetable oil, alcohol, and algae. Hydrogen fuel takes a lot of energy to make a small amount of it. It might take awhile to mass produce these fuels, but hey it's worth the wait. Hydrogen cars probably won't go that fast, but it might be possible to have a fast car that runs on hydrogen.
Right now, hydrogen fuel is still under development. Currently there's natural gas, vegetable oil, alcohol, and algae. Hydrogen fuel takes a lot of energy to make a small amount of it. It might take awhile to mass produce these fuels, but hey it's worth the wait. Hydrogen cars probably won't go that fast, but it might be possible to have a fast car that runs on hydrogen.
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TheMichaelOnline : In a post I made earlier in this thread I stated that we need to find alternative energy sources and get away from fossil fuels. And I feel the sooner the better.

But I do agree with you that our reliance on fossil fuels will probably last a long time. Maybe not a few hundred years but atleast a few generations. With our ever growing demand of oil and fossil fuels, it will take any technology we choose a long time to replace our current needs. This along with the fact that there won't be any shortage of fossil fuels any time soon mean fossil fuels will play a big part in the way we live. Where I live in Canada, there is so much bituman (oil filled sand) that experts say we wont run out of it for hundreds of years. And yes they are also predicting that the demand will continue to rise.

My main concern about fossil fuels is the pollution. I am not one of those save the world global warming activists, as I personaly feel that it is a big lie. I am only talking about pollution Whether it is oil spills like thenumberone mentioned or just toxic emissions pollution is bad anyway you look at it. This is the reason why I think we need to switch to alternative energy sources as soon as we can. (which as we both figure will take along timeto fully implement)
TheMichaelOnline : In a post I made earlier in this thread I stated that we need to find alternative energy sources and get away from fossil fuels. And I feel the sooner the better.

But I do agree with you that our reliance on fossil fuels will probably last a long time. Maybe not a few hundred years but atleast a few generations. With our ever growing demand of oil and fossil fuels, it will take any technology we choose a long time to replace our current needs. This along with the fact that there won't be any shortage of fossil fuels any time soon mean fossil fuels will play a big part in the way we live. Where I live in Canada, there is so much bituman (oil filled sand) that experts say we wont run out of it for hundreds of years. And yes they are also predicting that the demand will continue to rise.

My main concern about fossil fuels is the pollution. I am not one of those save the world global warming activists, as I personaly feel that it is a big lie. I am only talking about pollution Whether it is oil spills like thenumberone mentioned or just toxic emissions pollution is bad anyway you look at it. This is the reason why I think we need to switch to alternative energy sources as soon as we can. (which as we both figure will take along timeto fully implement)
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I would love for alternative fuels to be used mainstream. Heck, I heard mountain dew was being used as a fuel somewhere, why not try that? XD
I would love for alternative fuels to be used mainstream. Heck, I heard mountain dew was being used as a fuel somewhere, why not try that? XD
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thenumberone :

People in Africa are far poorer, employment in energy sectors no doubt is a great boon for them. The United States propping up and manipulating their governments with foreign aid, subsidizing American farmers and putting tariffs on foreign products hurt them oh so much more.
thenumberone :

People in Africa are far poorer, employment in energy sectors no doubt is a great boon for them. The United States propping up and manipulating their governments with foreign aid, subsidizing American farmers and putting tariffs on foreign products hurt them oh so much more.
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07-10-11 06:22 AM
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TheMichaelOnline : tarifs dont poison there lands and there children,oil does.
Africa has many desserts,prime area for solar power.
People need to maintain the panels though,thats a living for some people.
Also very few of the oil workers are native to the oil location.it may be in africa but the workers are all white.
TheMichaelOnline : tarifs dont poison there lands and there children,oil does.
Africa has many desserts,prime area for solar power.
People need to maintain the panels though,thats a living for some people.
Also very few of the oil workers are native to the oil location.it may be in africa but the workers are all white.
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thenumberone :

Tariffs disrespects their equal humanity, violates their rights as such and denies them market opportunities. Tarrifs impoverish and starve them.

If such problems with oil are more frequent and dangerous there, it is because it is more costly to address that since their economic environment is less friendly to property rights and to improving things and so less wealth.

Solar power has major problems with price competitiveness, flow, storage, transportation and so on, and using those deserts for solar power involves destroying allegedly oh so precious environments.

Even if the oil workers are foreigners, such employment is still a positive.
thenumberone :

Tariffs disrespects their equal humanity, violates their rights as such and denies them market opportunities. Tarrifs impoverish and starve them.

If such problems with oil are more frequent and dangerous there, it is because it is more costly to address that since their economic environment is less friendly to property rights and to improving things and so less wealth.

Solar power has major problems with price competitiveness, flow, storage, transportation and so on, and using those deserts for solar power involves destroying allegedly oh so precious environments.

Even if the oil workers are foreigners, such employment is still a positive.
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07-10-11 02:02 PM
thenumberone is Offline
| ID: 421900 | 306 Words

thenumberone
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TheMichaelOnline : no one is denying tariffs hurt them, im
saying that the oil does that worse since they themselves
gain nothing from the oil, but misery and starvation because
 they cant farm anymore.
the reason its not adressed is not because its too expensive,
have you seen what the companys get from fuel prices?the
reason is they dont care.in america when bp had the spill it
was big news and americans were furios with bp, that WOULD
 be fair enough if it wasnt so hypocritical.EVERY day in africa
and south america, in asia and elsewhere american oil
compnays cause this devestation, most americans either
dont know about it or dont care because its not there land
thats being destroyed.the people cant go to there government
because over there the governments are as greedy and corrupt
as the oil companys.
the only change would be to flatten it out and given that they the
government is so happy to destroy land for oil i dont think they
will care about destroying uninhabited dessert, las vegas was
 a "precious dessert" once.
its positive for white countrys but its hardly fair that we are the
 only ones to benefit from there oil.

shell:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZjF1rTybKI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENrrs7msKTw

puts into perspective how small the us oil spill was compared to
othersurl]http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/may/30/oil-spills-
nigeria-niger-delta-shell[/url]

america:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exxon_Valdez_oil_spill#Aftermath
interesting how the companys compensation costs were reduced

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1930671.stm
and look at this, south america and there disasters are still far worse,
 with more oil spills than in all the us history.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0001451.html
and still more

the point to be noted is that the oil companies never end up fixing the
 problem, greedy a holes.

ignore this uncharacteristically long line which i added purely to highlight a small problem with my layout which someone is looking into, well that should be enough words to mess it up.
TheMichaelOnline : no one is denying tariffs hurt them, im
saying that the oil does that worse since they themselves
gain nothing from the oil, but misery and starvation because
 they cant farm anymore.
the reason its not adressed is not because its too expensive,
have you seen what the companys get from fuel prices?the
reason is they dont care.in america when bp had the spill it
was big news and americans were furios with bp, that WOULD
 be fair enough if it wasnt so hypocritical.EVERY day in africa
and south america, in asia and elsewhere american oil
compnays cause this devestation, most americans either
dont know about it or dont care because its not there land
thats being destroyed.the people cant go to there government
because over there the governments are as greedy and corrupt
as the oil companys.
the only change would be to flatten it out and given that they the
government is so happy to destroy land for oil i dont think they
will care about destroying uninhabited dessert, las vegas was
 a "precious dessert" once.
its positive for white countrys but its hardly fair that we are the
 only ones to benefit from there oil.

shell:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZjF1rTybKI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENrrs7msKTw

puts into perspective how small the us oil spill was compared to
othersurl]http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/may/30/oil-spills-
nigeria-niger-delta-shell[/url]

america:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exxon_Valdez_oil_spill#Aftermath
interesting how the companys compensation costs were reduced

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/1930671.stm
and look at this, south america and there disasters are still far worse,
 with more oil spills than in all the us history.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0001451.html
and still more

the point to be noted is that the oil companies never end up fixing the
 problem, greedy a holes.

ignore this uncharacteristically long line which i added purely to highlight a small problem with my layout which someone is looking into, well that should be enough words to mess it up.
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(edited by thenumberone on 07-10-11 03:34 PM)    

07-16-11 12:53 PM
Hoochman is Offline
| ID: 424468 | 26 Words

Hoochman
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I don't mind finding alternate means of fuel but only if it actually works and isn't too expensive. I suggest we invest more in nuclear power.
I don't mind finding alternate means of fuel but only if it actually works and isn't too expensive. I suggest we invest more in nuclear power.
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07-21-11 09:43 AM
POKeMAD is Offline
| ID: 425865 | 54 Words

POKeMAD
Level: 71


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there was a few cars that run on oxygen and hydrogen on top gear once and the gadget show if we can work on it further we can make the cars go faster or make it more effecient, electric cars are pretty rubbish what with alot of recharging and everything imagine the electricity bills
there was a few cars that run on oxygen and hydrogen on top gear once and the gadget show if we can work on it further we can make the cars go faster or make it more effecient, electric cars are pretty rubbish what with alot of recharging and everything imagine the electricity bills
Trusted Member
..should probably be doing something


Affected by 'Laziness Syndrome'

Registered: 05-28-11
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07-21-11 12:38 PM
epic-san is Offline
| ID: 425924 | 24 Words

epic-san
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There's a fuel made out of corn (forget what it's called), but it costs more to make than they can sell it for. sad...
There's a fuel made out of corn (forget what it's called), but it costs more to make than they can sell it for. sad...
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Hit O.P.S. syndrome on 4/2/11 at 5:14 p.m.


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