So, yet another thread that will probably spark a bit of debate. As Christians, is it acceptable for us to be involved in video games or read books involving magic? This isn't a debate about whether Video games or whatever are acceptable, but the focus of this thread is on magic.

Personally? I've struggled with this for a while. As many know, I used to be VERY into Fire Emblem (a game that does involve magic as a key part of the game). Don't use this thread to try and convince me of your viewpoint though, as I can simply read the thread to gain insight. State your viewpoint (and perhaps lovingly challenge other's) using scripture if possible, please.

Seeing as magic is make believe I don't see the problem with it. I remember when my stepmother took away my Magic: The Gathering cards and also a figurine of a dragon I had saying they were satanic.  To me it is like saying drawing a picture of a species of tree that doesn't exist is satanic.

mrfe :

It really depends on the context of how the magic is portrayed in
the game/ movie.

In the real world, angles use supernatural powers. These powers were given unto them by
God, they were meant to use it for whatever God sent them to use it for. Maybe they use their
power for recreational use in Heaven as well, I don't know.

God also has use of Supernatural powers.

In our own world, magic is usually associated with the powers of Pagan religions, or
Fallen angles.

Now, both fallen angles, and God can use supernatural powers, or "magic" to heal people.
God even performs miracles through prophets.

But, this is not wrong, because it is the power of God, not fallen angles.

Do you see what I'm getting at?
In this world, God hasn't given men influence in the spiritual dimension.
But, in a fantasy world, Whatever diety replaces God, could allow "magic" or
supernatural powers, to be used by men doing various things.

Look at Zelda, The Ocarina of Time.
In this game, Magic is not portrayed as power used
by fallen angles, but as a dimension of influence that those
obeying certain laws can harness and use.

Also, the game makes a difference between Dark (evil) and Light (good) magic.
And you might say that there is neutral magic.

To beat the game, you have to use the sacred light arrows to defeat the Great King of Evil, Gannondorf.
I don't feel bad about this at all, because this is the game's equivelent to "miracles" or even some of the
Artifacts found in the Jewish temple.

If a game uses satanic symboles, and is deeply drenched in paganism, then I would reccomend playing
the game though, cause that can allow Satanic influence into your life.

Wow, way to go mrfe! You've managed to get me to post in the debate forum twice! In one day, at that!

I agree with Sword Legion, that it depends on how the magic is portrayed. Magic can be very evil, if portrayed the wrong way, but if portrayed properly, I don't personally have any issues with it. An example of it being evil, might be depicting witches using magic to raise up demons, or communicate with the devil. A good example of it being acceptable would be the Genesis game "World of Illusion, starring Mickey Mouse". It says Illusion, but the game actually uses a lot of magic, such as a spell to summon a flying carpet (or the flying carpet itself for that matter!), being transported magically, and fighting what appears to be a wizard. This game is harmless in my opinion. Or perhaps how the Wizard in Toejam & Earl can heal you with magic. In the end, it's all up to one's own personal convictions on the matter. I won't look down on anyone that feels it's wrong, and I hope that anyone that claims Christianity as their religion wouldn't look down on me for feeling the way I do.

And actually, magic isn't entirely mythical. What we call magic (in real life) in reality is use of spiritual powers, and some people can do it. And real magic is evil, doubtless, since the Bible condemns it.

Ok, I'm not a Christian, but I can tell you that there is a form of magic in reality. Though it isn't the greatly powerful magic in most video games. Such as casting fireballs, transforming, teleportation, creating ice, and so forth. It has to do more with your soul and spirits. Because(knowing that you're a Christian) there is an afterlife, wouldn't you think there was a way to communicate or even use spiritual power? In the LDS religion, their form of power is referred to as the 'Priesthood' and there are things that are considered 'holy'. These all have to do with spiritual power. Now, you should know that Satan wanted to gain the power and glory of God, right? So don't you think he would develop a way to communicate and use the power of his fallen spirits and such? Of course. This is what real magic is. Or preferably known as Magick. This usually deals with talking to spirits, unlocking your own spiritual knowledge and power, and channeling energy. It is actually quite similar to some Christian rites and rituals. Though, as most of this is Devil/Demon related(note: NOT always directly from the Devil/Demons!!) I know this information is completely true, as I practice this myself. Any other questions, inbox me.

mrfe :  Looong time no thread!  Just kidding  

I'm with you here.  I've also struggled with this for a long time.  My favourite game of all time was Baldur's Gate.  Lot's of magic and dragons and fairies and thingies.  There is hardly a game these days that doesn't have magic or reference to magic in it.  It may look innocent and people distinguish between white and black magic and say that the one is good and the other one bad, but don't be deceived.  Like I always do, let's look at what the Bible says about this topic, then you decide.

Let's just quickly make an obvious distinction between the magic spoken of in the Bible and the magicians and illusionists that you find in shows, parties etc.  There's a big difference.  The magicians in the Bible gained their power from demonic forces or they were deceivers / pretenders who pretended to have great knowledge about certain secrets, the future etc.  The word "magic" is actually used 6 times in the Bible.  3 Times in the New Testament and 3 times in the Old Testament. 
Getting back to white & black magic.  White magic is described as "good" magic an opposite of black magic (sorcery / witchcraft / necromancy)  which draws upon the powers of evil beings.  So, you might decide to take on the role of a Paladin in one of those Dungeons & Dragons type of games.  He is normally depicted as a "good and true" warrior.  He's got a bright shining "aura" around him, got healing spells but can use necromancy to guard against the undead.  Seems harmless as supposed to the evil, dark looking sorcerer, who casts destruction spells (fireballs, lighting etc.) and cause all sorts of chaos.  The Bible does not differentiate between good and bad magic.  Magic is magic and scripture does not distinguish whether the magic is supposed to be used for good or for bad.  It is all forbidden because it appeals to a source of power other than God. 
Bit more detail about white magic:  Those who practice this, also often called Wicca, worship the creation rather than the Creator.  They might not call on the devil or evil spirits, but they often appeal to "mother earth", angels and / or the elements.  Their "motto" is, "if it does no harm, do your own will".  Whether they revere mother earth, the elements or the angels and intend to do only good, the reality is that ultimately, there is no distinction between white and black magic.  It is really quite scary to think that followers of this white magic are unknowingly praying to and imploring the same god that followers of black magic are devoting their energy to - Satan.

God despises all forms of magic.  Throughout scripture, in both the Old and New Testaments, all forms of witchcraft are in violation of God's law and are condemned. (Deuteronomy 18:10-16;  Leviticus 19:26,31,20:27;  Acts 13:8-10). Remember the story of Moses and Aaron.  Pharaoh's magicians tried to duplicate the miracles done by Moses and Aaron using their "secret arts" which refers to “the ceremonies or rituals sorcerers and magicians use to accomplish their ends: incantations, spells, magic words, wearing of charms, amulets” and so on (Exodus 7:11,8:7).  The apostle Paul condemned Elyas who was a sorcerer.  Paul said that he was a "child of the devil" who was full of "all kinds of deceit and trickery" and was "perverting the right ways of the Lord" (Acts 13:10).  Nowhere in the Bible is any sorcerer or magician portrayed as being positive.  The Bible says that God hates all magic, whether it is on the left or right hand side, because it does not come from God.  Satan deceives people by making them think that white magic is beneficial and he can do this because he pretends to be and angel of light (2 Corinthians 11:14), but his desire is to capture the souls of many as possible. The Bible warns against him and his evil tricks. “Be self-controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour” (1 Peter 5:8).  "The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons" (1 Timothy 4:1). Magic is nothing similar to any Christian "rite or ritual".  In fact, rites and rituals have no relevance in a true Christian's life.  Real spiritual power, NOT MAGIC, only comes from God, from a right relationship with Him through faith in Jesus Christ, and from the Holy Spirit who lives in the hearts of believers. 

Since I already stated my opinionhere, I want to say thank you for your post from the bottom of my heart. I never thought I'd meet anyone that believed the exact same way I do on the matter. Reading your post was a great comfort to me this morning.

I wish I could like that post a billion times, just to let you feel an ounce of the relief your post gave me.

Women use black magic through makeup, skimpy outfits and tanning beds.
Men use black magic through photoshop, luxury suits and smooth talk.

Not all magic has to involve fireballs and some sort of freakish superpower. Black magic is everywhere but I don't think people really care if they get deceived by it cause they are still buying into the illusion.

It's like in that scene in the Matrix when Cypher wanted to taste steak again, he wanted to go back to living an illusion. Unfortunately, I think most people want to do the same when it comes to politics and products. They keep buying into it even though they are being deceived and know it sucks.

Birthday wishes can be considered white or black magic depending on the color of frosting you are using on your cake. If the person uses trick candles on white cake you've been deceived

Makebelive is makebelive. No more, no less.

SInce magic isnt real id say its very academic. You could ask are unicorns good but since they arent real it doesent matter.
Magic, beyond slight of hand and illusion, is not real.

As an LDS dude myself, I believe in the power of God as revealed to man.  God allows His servants to use His very power for good, although He always does this in a way that promotes faith in Him.  In other words, God doesn't like to show off.  He wants us to come to know Him of our own volition, and not because some "sign" proved Him to be real.  It takes day to day acts of faith for this to happen.  The "magic" of the Priesthood (as Aether121 kinda pointed out) is God's own power given to men in order to promote faith in Him.  This could be as simple as blessing one of God's servants to get better, or could be some mighty miracle (which happens much less often).  The greatest miracles are subtle and can make grown men weep for joy.  These miracles cannot last for the faithless (which is why Jesus revoked his gift to the nine thankless lepers rather than the one who came and thanked him).  

Singelli :  You offer a very compelling argument.  I recommend her post
to anyone else who is thinking about magic and how to act around the
myriad of settings in which it shows up in society.

As far as how I should apply this to my life, I do not know.  Some forms
of "fantasy magic" seemingly have very little in common with the
magic that exists in reality.  My current philosophy is that magic
portrayed in the types of games I play or movies I watch is
utterly fictional.  In this way I am merely exercising my
freedom in Christ (see I Corinthians 8).  I choose not to be
entertained by anything magic related that, to some
degree, accurately depicts reality.  However, even
assuming this view is correct, I will not criticize Singelli's
view.  To her any interaction with magic is a sin and therefore
she should have nothing to do with it.

I wonder, though, if my way of approaching this issue is
dangerous.  Magic is certainly not something to take
lightly.  I will have to pray about this and ask God if He
desires that I take more drastic action against magic in my life.  If it is indeed a
sin to associate with fantasy magic as I currently do, it will be better for me to obey God than to get a small amount of pleasure from playing the game.

mrfe :  Thank you very much for posing this question.  It is certainly a topic worth considering!

alr256 : Wow! Thanks so much for the positive response. ^.^

I think I might have something to say on your uncertainty. Although I in no way want to push MY way ever.... as Christians we should always push CHRIST'S way. And I do truly believe that God wants us to have nothing to do with magic at all.

That being said...

For a long time, I was uncertain about 'piercings'. I don't have anything pierced other than my earlobes and as you probably know, the bible does speak out against making cuts to your body. This is due to the fact that your body is a holy temple for God, and as such, it should be taken care of.

Well, I'm still uncertain about it. Due to this uncertainty, I have opted NOT to keep my piercings. Although I'm not sure if they are sinful or not, I'd rather play on the safe side. I'd rather not have piercings and respect my body as God wishes, then to go to heaven some day and have something else to be ashamed of! Although my ears were pierced at a young age, I haven't worn earrings for quite some time, so that the holes will heal. I don't intend on re-piercing them, either.

The best thing you can probably do though, as you stated, is pray about it. Listen to God and see what He wants you to do in your life on the issue.    Study the scriptures as well and see if He will reveal anything to you that you might not have seen before.

God bless!

Singelli :

Too bad the scars will always be there even if the actual holes for the piercings will grow shut.

Singelli :

I've been wanting to hear you opinion on the subject for quite a while, and here it is.

[keep reading]

SoL@R : I honestly have to say thank you for making such a clear post about the subject at hand,


now [to both of you]  here I go.


 
     First of all, everyone has been told as a christian that magic in games are bad, and were' dealing with true magic, not just "Game Logic" or glitching, ect. 

     Now my opinion is that the answer is yes, and no.

     But how can that be? Well, let's look into what solar said earlier.

    "The entire reason of prevention of magic is so that we do not look to other sources of power except God" 
   
     This is why magic is wrong, all magic in real life should not be used by Christians because it is not for the glory of God.

     BUT, what about fighting magic?  You know, slaying the bad guys, to rid the town of the curses sent by that Wizard. 
 
     I haven't seen anything wrong with that. not in the least.
  
     Fighting (with the power and for the further glory of God) do so!

     I think that's really all I need to say. 
 
   

     I was going to bring up that there is no "Magic" in video games becauuuuuuuuse.....


 CPU Disasm
Address     Hex dump               Command                                  Comments
00444780  /$  55                      PUSH EBP
00444781  |.  8BEC                  MOV EBP,ESP
00444783  |.  83EC 54             SUB ESP,54
00444786  |.  C745 B0 00000 MOV DWORD PTR SSLOCAL.20],0
0044478D  |.  C745 B4 00000 MOV DWORD PTR SSLOCAL.19],0
00444794  |.  C745 B8 00000 MOV DWORD PTR SSLOCAL.18],0
0044479B  |.  C745 BC 00000 MOV DWORD PTR SSLOCAL.17],0
004447A2  |.  C745 C0 00010 MOV DWORD PTR SSLOCAL.16],100
004447A9  |.  C745 C4 00000 MOV DWORD PTR SSLOCAL.15],0
004447B0  |.  C745 C8 10010 MOV DWORD PTR SSLOCAL.14],110
004447B7  |.  C745 CC F0000 MOV DWORD PTR SSLOCAL.13],0F0
004447BE  |.  C745 D0 10010 MOV DWORD PTR SSLOCAL.12],110
004447C5  |.  C745 D4 00000 MOV DWORD PTR SSLOCAL.11],0
004447CC  |.  C745 D8 20010 MOV DWORD PTR SSLOCAL.10],120
004447D3  |.  C745 DC F0000 MOV DWORD PTR SSLOCAL.9],0F0
004447DA  |.  C745 E0 20010 MOV DWORD PTR SSLOCAL.8],120
004447E1  |.  C745 E4 00000 MOV DWORD PTR SSLOCAL.7],0
004447E8  |.  C745 E8 30010 MOV DWORD PTR SSLOCAL.6],130
004447EF  |.  C745 EC F0000 MOV DWORD PTR SSLOCAL.5],0F0
004447F6  |.  C745 F0 30010 MOV DWORD PTR SSLOCAL.4],130
004447FD  |.  C745 F4 00000 MOV DWORD PTR SSLOCAL.3],0
00444804  |.  C745 F8 40010 MOV DWORD PTR SSLOCAL.2],140
0044480B  |.  C745 FC F0000 MOV DWORD PTR SSLOCAL.1],0F0
00444812  |.  8B45 08       MOV EAX,DWORD PTR SSARG.1]
00444815  |.  8B48 74       MOV ECX,DWORD PTR DSEAX+74]
00444818  |.  894D AC       MOV DWORD PTR SSLOCAL.21],ECX
0044481B  |.  837D AC 00    CMP DWORD PTR SSLOCAL.21],0
0044481F  |.  74 11         JE SHORT 00444832
00444821  |.  837D AC 01    CMP DWORD PTR SSLOCAL.21],1
00444825  |.  74 2C         JE SHORT 00444853
00444827  |.  837D AC 02    CMP DWORD PTR SSLOCAL.21],2
0044482B  |.  74 56         JE SHORT 00444883
0044482D  |.  E9 C4000000   JMP 004448F6
00444832  |>  8B55 08       MOV EDX,DWORD PTR SSARG.1]
00444835  |.  C742 74 01000 MOV DWORD PTR DSEDX+74],1
0044483C  |.  8B45 08       MOV EAX,DWORD PTR SSARG.1]
0044483F  |.  8378 4C 02    CMP DWORD PTR DSEAX+4C],2
00444843  |.  75 0E         JNE SHORT 00444853
00444845  |.  6A 02         PUSH 2                                   ; /Arg3 = 2
00444847  |.  6A 00         PUSH 0                                   ; |Arg2 = 0
00444849  |.  6A 00         PUSH 0                                   ; |Arg1 = 0
0044484B  |.  E8 20A2FCFF   CALL 0040EA70                            ; Suu_No_Monogatari.0040EA70
00444850  |.  83C4 0C       ADD ESP,0C
00444853  |>  8B4D 08       MOV ECX,DWORD PTR SSARG.1]
00444856  |.  8B51 78       MOV EDX,DWORD PTR DSECX+78]
00444859  |.  83C2 01       ADD EDX,1
0044485C  |.  8B45 08       MOV EAX,DWORD PTR SSARG.1]
0044485F  |.  8950 78       MOV DWORD PTR DSEAX+78],EDX
00444862  |.  8B4D 08       MOV ECX,DWORD PTR SSARG.1]
00444865  |.  8379 78 0A    CMP DWORD PTR DSECX+78],0A
00444869  |.  7E 16         JLE SHORT 00444881
0044486B  |.  8B55 08       MOV EDX,DWORD PTR SSARG.1]
0044486E  |.  C742 74 02000 MOV DWORD PTR DSEDX+74],2
00444875  |.  6A 01         PUSH 1                                   ; /Arg2 = 1
00444877  |.  6A 65         PUSH 65                                  ; |Arg1 = 65
00444879  |.  E8 C2BDFDFF   CALL 00420640                            ; Suu_No_Monogatari.00420640
0044487E  |.  83C4 08       ADD ESP,8
00444881  |>  EB 73         JMP SHORT 004448F6
00444883  |>  8B45 08       MOV EAX,DWORD PTR SSARG.1]
00444886  |.  8B48 64       MOV ECX,DWORD PTR DSEAX+64]
00444889  |.  83C1 01       ADD ECX,1
0044488C  |.  8B55 08       MOV EDX,DWORD PTR SSARG.1]
0044488F  |.  894A 64       MOV DWORD PTR DSEDX+64],ECX
00444892  |.  8B45 08       MOV EAX,DWORD PTR SSARG.1]
00444895  |.  8378 64 02    CMP DWORD PTR DSEAX+64],2
00444899  |.  7E 19         JLE SHORT 004448B4
0044489B  |.  8B4D 08       MOV ECX,DWORD PTR SSARG.1]
0044489E  |.  C741 64 00000 MOV DWORD PTR DSECX+64],0
004448A5  |.  8B55 08       MOV EDX,DWORD PTR SSARG.1]
004448A8  |.  8B42 68       MOV EAX,DWORD PTR DSEDX+68]
004448AB  |.  83C0 01       ADD EAX,1
004448AE  |.  8B4D 08       MOV ECX,DWORD PTR SSARG.1]
004448B1  |.  8941 68       MOV DWORD PTR DSECX+68],EAX
004448B4  |>  8B55 08       MOV EDX,DWORD PTR SSARG.1]
004448B7  |.  837A 68 02    CMP DWORD PTR DSEDX+68],2
004448BB  |.  75 0D         JNE SHORT 004448CA
004448BD  |.  8B45 08       MOV EAX,DWORD PTR SSARG.1]
004448C0  |.  C780 A4000000 MOV DWORD PTR DSEAX+0A4],0A
004448CA  |>  8B4D 08       MOV ECX,DWORD PTR SSARG.1]
004448CD  |.  8379 68 04    CMP DWORD PTR DSECX+68],4
004448D1  |.  7E 23         JLE SHORT 004448F6
004448D3  |.  6A 08         PUSH 8                                   ; /Arg4 = 8
004448D5  |.  68 00100000   PUSH 1000                                ; |Arg3 = 1000
004448DA  |.  8B55 08       MOV EDX,DWORD PTR SSARG.1]             ; |
004448DD  |.  8B42 0C       MOV EAX,DWORD PTR DSEDX+0C]            ; |
004448E0  |.  50            PUSH EAX                                 ; |Arg2
004448E1  |.  8B4D 08       MOV ECX,DWORD PTR SSARG.1]             ; |
004448E4  |.  8B51 08       MOV EDX,DWORD PTR DSECX+8]             ; |
004448E7  |.  52            PUSH EDX                                 ; |Arg1
004448E8  |.  E8 63A80200   CALL 0046F150                            ; Suu_No_Monogatari.0046F150
004448ED  |.  83C4 10       ADD ESP,10
004448F0  |.  8B45 08       MOV EAX,DWORD PTR SSARG.1]
004448F3  |.  C600 00       MOV BYTE PTR DSEAX],0
004448F6  |>  8B4D 08       MOV ECX,DWORD PTR SSARG.1]
004448F9  |.  8B51 68       MOV EDX,DWORD PTR DSECX+68]
004448FC  |.  C1E2 04       SHL EDX,4
004448FF  |.  8D4415 B0     LEA EAX,[EDX+EBP-50]
00444903  |.  8B4D 08       MOV ECX,DWORD PTR SSARG.1]
00444906  |.  83C1 54       ADD ECX,54
00444909  |.  8B10          MOV EDX,DWORD PTR DSEAX]
0044490B  |.  8911          MOV DWORD PTR DSECX],EDX
0044490D  |.  8B50 04       MOV EDX,DWORD PTR DSEAX+4]
00444910  |.  8951 04       MOV DWORD PTR DSECX+4],EDX
00444913  |.  8B50 08       MOV EDX,DWORD PTR DSEAX+8]
00444916  |.  8951 08       MOV DWORD PTR DSECX+8],EDX
00444919  |.  8B40 0C       MOV EAX,DWORD PTR DSEAX+0C]
0044491C  |.  8941 0C       MOV DWORD PTR DSECX+0C],EAX
0044491F  |.  8BE5          MOV ESP,EBP
00444921  |.  5D            POP EBP
00444922  .  C3            RETN


     
That's what magic is in Video games. It's just a bunch of 1 and 0 that make a picture. 




Brigand : Ummm, why would you troll such a nice user, If you were going to say something, it could have been constructive, or nicely pointed out
LIKE THE RULES SAY!

Sword legion : Please stay focus on the topic at hand and not bring in past threads into this thread. If you need to report someone, a PM would be fine.

Brigand : Please be more constructive with your comments on this thread. If there is nothing worth saying that would contribute to the conversation, you might as well not say anything.

Sword legion : totally get your point. it's like the natzi symbol. it used to mean good luck and wealth and happiness or something along those lines, but then it switched to black voodoo, and then the natzi's adopted the symbol to help support people into thinking they have a good cause. sadly the symbol which once meant good things is now only thought of as evil

Mecha Leo :

Did you know that the star constelations tell
the story of God's redemption plan? 

But.

Later, the constalations were used for
astrology.

Satan seems to take a lot of stuff
that God meant for good, and using it 
for evil.

God has granted the angles power.
But when they went bad, they
used it do evil things. 

Magic = powers given to angles,
now being used for evil.

In the real world at least.

I've heard a little bit about the Nazi symbol.
Thanks for that bit of info.