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Official 2013-14 Off-season MLB thread
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Official 2013-14 Off-season MLB thread

 

12-05-13 05:06 PM
legacyme3 is Offline
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Chewedmint :

I will say that his durability shouldn't be a question.

Almost every injury he's had over his career was a freak accident you can't hold against him.

1. Ribs in 2010 (I think it was 2010?)

These were a factor of crashing into Adrian Beltre, who never made his prescence known to Ellsbury on the play. That play was the LF's to make, and Beltre SHOULD have said "I am here."

Those three words prevent the devastating injury that cost him half the season, and then the rest of it when the Red Sox doctors tried rushing him back before he was ready.

Really, there's no one to blame for that play but Beltre.

2. Sublaxation in Shoulder in 2012.

This was the result of a Rays player not watching where he was when fielding a play. Ellsbury slid into second as you are supposed to, you try to break up the double play by sliding into the bag hard. The way he slid was perfect, and in 99.9% of cases, avoided injury.

However, a Rays player was not watching his own step and thus fell with ALL of his weight on Ellsbury's shoulder, sublaxing it and sidelining him for half of the season.

You cannot say Ellsbury is an injury risk, because in all actuality he's quite durable when players aren't being stupid and colliding with him.

So he's not a "big" risk. He's just a bad contract, that makes no sense.

Also, right now, you can consider the Mariners favorites for Cano, as they are willing to offer 240 million dollars over 10 years. The Yankees won't go above 200 million.

EDIT - Apparently the report I heard was a little mixed up. Cano asked for 240 million. The Mariners countered with 200 million, which is still more than the Yankees offer apparently
Chewedmint :

I will say that his durability shouldn't be a question.

Almost every injury he's had over his career was a freak accident you can't hold against him.

1. Ribs in 2010 (I think it was 2010?)

These were a factor of crashing into Adrian Beltre, who never made his prescence known to Ellsbury on the play. That play was the LF's to make, and Beltre SHOULD have said "I am here."

Those three words prevent the devastating injury that cost him half the season, and then the rest of it when the Red Sox doctors tried rushing him back before he was ready.

Really, there's no one to blame for that play but Beltre.

2. Sublaxation in Shoulder in 2012.

This was the result of a Rays player not watching where he was when fielding a play. Ellsbury slid into second as you are supposed to, you try to break up the double play by sliding into the bag hard. The way he slid was perfect, and in 99.9% of cases, avoided injury.

However, a Rays player was not watching his own step and thus fell with ALL of his weight on Ellsbury's shoulder, sublaxing it and sidelining him for half of the season.

You cannot say Ellsbury is an injury risk, because in all actuality he's quite durable when players aren't being stupid and colliding with him.

So he's not a "big" risk. He's just a bad contract, that makes no sense.

Also, right now, you can consider the Mariners favorites for Cano, as they are willing to offer 240 million dollars over 10 years. The Yankees won't go above 200 million.

EDIT - Apparently the report I heard was a little mixed up. Cano asked for 240 million. The Mariners countered with 200 million, which is still more than the Yankees offer apparently
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(edited by legacyme3 on 12-05-13 05:32 PM)    

12-06-13 12:50 AM
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With the Yankees giving Ellsbury 22 million a year, what are the thoughts on what Shin-Soo Choo will receive per year? I could see him getting in the 15-18 million a year range.
With the Yankees giving Ellsbury 22 million a year, what are the thoughts on what Shin-Soo Choo will receive per year? I could see him getting in the 15-18 million a year range.
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12-06-13 01:02 AM
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koeber8 :

Almost positive I see him getting 17 million on the money, for 5 or 6 years.

These are the two deals I find most likely.

5/90 - 18 million a year
6/100 - 16.7 million a year.

Realistically he'll fall somewhere in the middle.

-----

In Cano news, he's in Seattle talking with them.

Latest rumors I've heard have anywhere from 8/190 to 10/230

Either way, that's like... 23 million a year. That's a lot of scratch.
koeber8 :

Almost positive I see him getting 17 million on the money, for 5 or 6 years.

These are the two deals I find most likely.

5/90 - 18 million a year
6/100 - 16.7 million a year.

Realistically he'll fall somewhere in the middle.

-----

In Cano news, he's in Seattle talking with them.

Latest rumors I've heard have anywhere from 8/190 to 10/230

Either way, that's like... 23 million a year. That's a lot of scratch.
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12-06-13 11:32 AM
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What a turn of events for the Yankees, first Cano goes and signs with the mariners and less than an hour later, Granderson goes to the Mets. I know that their recent additions make up for some of their losses, but still, that's a lot of talent just leaving. Though when I finally saw that Granderson signed with the Mets, It felt like Christmas.
What a turn of events for the Yankees, first Cano goes and signs with the mariners and less than an hour later, Granderson goes to the Mets. I know that their recent additions make up for some of their losses, but still, that's a lot of talent just leaving. Though when I finally saw that Granderson signed with the Mets, It felt like Christmas.
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12-06-13 05:40 PM
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Like I said earlier

"Consider the Mariners favorites for Cano."

Proof I don't talk crap

And apparently Cano got the 240 million he wants.

-----

To refresh everyone, that's 24 million a year. Jacoby Ellsbury (who the Yankees signed) cost 22 million.

They effectively traded Robinson Cano for Jacoby Ellsbury and 2 million.

Both contracts are ridiculously stupid, and both teams will hate the tail end of their contracts... (seriously, the Mariners will be paying Cano 24 million when he's 41!) but even in the short term, I'd say the Yankees lose.

Ellsbury is a great player, but Cano is one of the top 3 second basemen in baseball right now, up there with Dustin Pedroia and your choice of Ian Kinsler/Brandon Phillips. It's damn near impossible to replace Cano, and they will feel the hurt next season.

There are rumors Cano won't hit big in SAFECO, which I find hilarious, because he has the opportunity to swing at fences that benefit his game more than Yankee Stadium. The only effect will be the climate, and I think he'll adjust fine. He has 10 years to do so.

I think the Yankees made a huge mistake signing Ellsbury to that contract, even if he holds up for the first 3 years, it gives them 4-5 bad years, as well as helping them lose their second baseman. If they wanted to stay under the luxury tax, the most they could give him was 20 million a year. This made them underdogs in this free agent signing from the day they inked Ells.

Of course, I think the team that benefits the most here, is the Red Sox. They don't have to pay Ells a terrible contract, and they gain a draft pick (and the Yankees lose another, which they gained back by losing Cano). The value of a draft pick can't be overstated. Because Jacoby Ellsbury? Homegrown. Dustin Pedroia? Homegrown. Jon Lester? Homegrown. Xander Bogaerts? Homegrown. Sure World Series teams have a couple guys made elsewhere, but one trend I notice is more and more teams who have homegrown teams tend to win.

This is bad news for the Yankees who just let the best product they've ever built leave.

They have no farm. And thus, no future. You can buy a division, but you can't buy a World Series as easily anymore.
Like I said earlier

"Consider the Mariners favorites for Cano."

Proof I don't talk crap

And apparently Cano got the 240 million he wants.

-----

To refresh everyone, that's 24 million a year. Jacoby Ellsbury (who the Yankees signed) cost 22 million.

They effectively traded Robinson Cano for Jacoby Ellsbury and 2 million.

Both contracts are ridiculously stupid, and both teams will hate the tail end of their contracts... (seriously, the Mariners will be paying Cano 24 million when he's 41!) but even in the short term, I'd say the Yankees lose.

Ellsbury is a great player, but Cano is one of the top 3 second basemen in baseball right now, up there with Dustin Pedroia and your choice of Ian Kinsler/Brandon Phillips. It's damn near impossible to replace Cano, and they will feel the hurt next season.

There are rumors Cano won't hit big in SAFECO, which I find hilarious, because he has the opportunity to swing at fences that benefit his game more than Yankee Stadium. The only effect will be the climate, and I think he'll adjust fine. He has 10 years to do so.

I think the Yankees made a huge mistake signing Ellsbury to that contract, even if he holds up for the first 3 years, it gives them 4-5 bad years, as well as helping them lose their second baseman. If they wanted to stay under the luxury tax, the most they could give him was 20 million a year. This made them underdogs in this free agent signing from the day they inked Ells.

Of course, I think the team that benefits the most here, is the Red Sox. They don't have to pay Ells a terrible contract, and they gain a draft pick (and the Yankees lose another, which they gained back by losing Cano). The value of a draft pick can't be overstated. Because Jacoby Ellsbury? Homegrown. Dustin Pedroia? Homegrown. Jon Lester? Homegrown. Xander Bogaerts? Homegrown. Sure World Series teams have a couple guys made elsewhere, but one trend I notice is more and more teams who have homegrown teams tend to win.

This is bad news for the Yankees who just let the best product they've ever built leave.

They have no farm. And thus, no future. You can buy a division, but you can't buy a World Series as easily anymore.
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12-06-13 10:41 PM
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Looks like the Yankees got another upgrade signing Carlos Beltran to a 3 year deal worth 45 million dollars. Kind of a good move in that it upgrades that batting order, but at the same time he is 36 so this year might be an interesting one to see what Beltran has left.

Also Napoli resigned with the Sox for a 2 year deal, so that is good given that I was disappointed with Ellsbury signing with the Yanks.

Granderson to the Mets seems like a good upgrade, hopefully if Matt Harvey gets healthy the Mets might compete.

I'll be interested to see how the Indians, Pirates, Rays and O's will do given that the Pirates and Indians will want to improve on their success last year, the Rays kind of flying under the radar will be interesting to watch, and the O's almost making the post-season.
Looks like the Yankees got another upgrade signing Carlos Beltran to a 3 year deal worth 45 million dollars. Kind of a good move in that it upgrades that batting order, but at the same time he is 36 so this year might be an interesting one to see what Beltran has left.

Also Napoli resigned with the Sox for a 2 year deal, so that is good given that I was disappointed with Ellsbury signing with the Yanks.

Granderson to the Mets seems like a good upgrade, hopefully if Matt Harvey gets healthy the Mets might compete.

I'll be interested to see how the Indians, Pirates, Rays and O's will do given that the Pirates and Indians will want to improve on their success last year, the Rays kind of flying under the radar will be interesting to watch, and the O's almost making the post-season.
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12-06-13 10:58 PM
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Well, looks like I was wrong about Cano signing with Seattle, although longtime Mariners fans would certainly understand my skepticism. Rumors now are that the M's are looking to make a major trade, possibly for David Price. I wouldn't mind that trade as long as they don't give up Taijuan Walker to get him. However, I would like to see them resign Kendrys Morales first.

As far as the Yankees go, it just seemed like they didn't want Cano anymore. They wouldn't offer Cano any more than $175M, yet they offer Ellsbury, a longtime rival of Cano and the Yankees, everything but the kitchen sink. Either way, Cano can't complain because he got every bit of the $240M he was looking for anyways, albeit on a different team.
Well, looks like I was wrong about Cano signing with Seattle, although longtime Mariners fans would certainly understand my skepticism. Rumors now are that the M's are looking to make a major trade, possibly for David Price. I wouldn't mind that trade as long as they don't give up Taijuan Walker to get him. However, I would like to see them resign Kendrys Morales first.

As far as the Yankees go, it just seemed like they didn't want Cano anymore. They wouldn't offer Cano any more than $175M, yet they offer Ellsbury, a longtime rival of Cano and the Yankees, everything but the kitchen sink. Either way, Cano can't complain because he got every bit of the $240M he was looking for anyways, albeit on a different team.
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12-10-13 12:05 PM
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It looks like the value for the Yankees is going to drop some more because of Curtis Granderson. Just minutes ago, he stated that only Mets fans are true new yorkers.

Now, I'm a Mets fan, but still, he just had 2 All Stars and hit 100 home runs with the Yankees and he is basically saying he regrets playing for the Yankees. The Yankees could get some bad rep because of this and lose out on some future players, I have seen this happen before in baseball, so I see it could happen again.
It looks like the value for the Yankees is going to drop some more because of Curtis Granderson. Just minutes ago, he stated that only Mets fans are true new yorkers.

Now, I'm a Mets fan, but still, he just had 2 All Stars and hit 100 home runs with the Yankees and he is basically saying he regrets playing for the Yankees. The Yankees could get some bad rep because of this and lose out on some future players, I have seen this happen before in baseball, so I see it could happen again.
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12-10-13 12:14 PM
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zanderlex :

I don't think that's going to affect much.

Carl Crawford said the same thing about Boston after leaving basically.

We got plenty of free agents.

The Yankees and Red Sox are never going to have to worry about drawing in players. They are too big to fail with free agents.

Chewedmint :

I don't think the Mariners get Price without Walker, especially if they are serious about ALSO keeping Paxton off the table.

The rules are you gotta give something up to get something. And while the Mariners are deep, the Rays aren't stupid. They will wait until someone pays what they want for Price.

Either the Mariners give up Walker, or they probably aren't getting Price.

I honestly don't think the Rays trade Price for a couple months. I don't see him getting traded at the Winter Meetings, and they could wait until the trade deadline.

And when he does get dealt, he's getting dealt for a bigger haul than Shields was traded for last year.
zanderlex :

I don't think that's going to affect much.

Carl Crawford said the same thing about Boston after leaving basically.

We got plenty of free agents.

The Yankees and Red Sox are never going to have to worry about drawing in players. They are too big to fail with free agents.

Chewedmint :

I don't think the Mariners get Price without Walker, especially if they are serious about ALSO keeping Paxton off the table.

The rules are you gotta give something up to get something. And while the Mariners are deep, the Rays aren't stupid. They will wait until someone pays what they want for Price.

Either the Mariners give up Walker, or they probably aren't getting Price.

I honestly don't think the Rays trade Price for a couple months. I don't see him getting traded at the Winter Meetings, and they could wait until the trade deadline.

And when he does get dealt, he's getting dealt for a bigger haul than Shields was traded for last year.
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12-10-13 04:21 PM
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legacyme3 : That is probably true. But Walker played well in his limited time in the Majors, and he's still only 21. There's too much upside to trade him for a pitcher who is seven years older. Plus, it would take more than Walker for the Rays to trade Price.
legacyme3 : That is probably true. But Walker played well in his limited time in the Majors, and he's still only 21. There's too much upside to trade him for a pitcher who is seven years older. Plus, it would take more than Walker for the Rays to trade Price.
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12-10-13 04:40 PM
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Chewedmint :

I'm not saying the Mariners should trade Walker.

I honestly think Walker ends up having a better career than Price, and I think the Mariners shouldn't bother trying to trade for him. Let him hit Free Agency in two years so the Rays get nothing in return for him but a draft pick.

However, it's possible (but I still wouldn't do the trade) for the Mariners to trade Mike Zunino in a deal for Price instead. It didn't occur to me, because frankly, trading Zunino would be stupid.
Chewedmint :

I'm not saying the Mariners should trade Walker.

I honestly think Walker ends up having a better career than Price, and I think the Mariners shouldn't bother trying to trade for him. Let him hit Free Agency in two years so the Rays get nothing in return for him but a draft pick.

However, it's possible (but I still wouldn't do the trade) for the Mariners to trade Mike Zunino in a deal for Price instead. It didn't occur to me, because frankly, trading Zunino would be stupid.
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03-04-14 08:08 PM
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   With the season almost here, it is time to close down this thread. Hopefully, we a great season of ball.

~Closed~
   With the season almost here, it is time to close down this thread. Hopefully, we a great season of ball.

~Closed~
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