At the request of tRIUNE, I have decided to make a thread that is geared towards matters of politics (since we are Christian Conservatives), faith, morality, and even philosophy if you so choose. This is actually a lot better for me, because it is going to be a test of my sincerity and what I actually know versus what I think I know. I'm opening up a little bit here, but although I have figured out that I'm not as smart as I think I am, I'm starting to realize that I know even less than I thought I did. So here's an opportunity for both you and me to learn a bit something about myself and some of these topics in general. I would like the questions to be well thought out and not generic. You can ask me my stance on gay marriage, but I'd prefer you ask me why and perhaps (if you agree with gay marriage) give me reason why you support it. This isn't necessarily meant to be a dialogue, but what good is it if I tell you my perspective when I don't see things from your perspective as well?

And if anything I say offends you, you can private message me and we'll discuss things in greater detail. My intention with this thread isn't to offend, but to be enlightened and hopefully help you and me find out a bit more about myself. So don't throw me any softball questions. I'm not a politician (yet), so I can handle the heat. Anyone from any faith background is welcome to inquire here.

Here is my question, and I hope it doesn't offend anyone.

Say there was nothing in the bible regarding homosexuality, how would you feel about it?

ender44 : I can give you two answers for this: 1) How I would like to say that I would feel about the issue and 2) how I actually think I would feel about the issue.

1) I would like to say that I wouldn't find a problem with homosexuality if it wasn't in the Bible, since the Bible is the foundation of the walk with God that I have. Evidently, because we are still not supposed to have intercourse outside of marriage, I would like to see homosexuals adhere to that and to having only one partner (something that is, at least in Birmingham, not practiced at all by the homosexual community). That is both respecting God and respecting your partner/spouse whatever you call it. However...

2) Because I struggled with issues of homosexuality in the past, I do not think I would actually feel okay (why did I write "be" there?) with it. For a long time I was bullied, and people would claim I was a homosexual because they were mean. It didn't help that I started to dabble in it for a while (I won't go into detail), though not physically with another person, although there have been times (even fairly recently, in the course of my life) where I have seriously considered it. My stance against homosexuality - not the people themselves - is based mostly on this personal experience.

For other people who might stumble upon this, I think I need to elaborate that this is purely hypothetical. I don't want people saying, "Oh, you're taking away from the Bible with these answers!"

pray75 :  I apologise for not pulling this "punch" ;p - While we're on the subject and without dragging this out (there are more than enough threads on this topic), what is your real / actual stance on homosexuality? (sorry for the fast ball )

SoL@R : I've put this off for a couple of days because I've struggled with how to answer it. Because it is somewhat complicated for me to flesh out because I don't have it figured out yet. I know the Bible states that homosexuality is an abomination. I agree with that, though I personally have a hard time balancing God's love with calling something an abomination that many people identify with. I understand that God's ways are higher than ours, so I'm not saying that God doesn't love these people. It's just something I struggle with because it seems so daunting when thinking about their salvation, especially because there are many in the church who will use that as an excuse to hate homosexuals and treat them with the utmost disrespect. To me, that is more reprehensible than the homosexuality itself, because they are essentially denying people the opportunity to know Christ since they are supposed to be the ambassadors of Him.

That being said, I also referenced having struggles with homosexuality in the past. I am sure that many other guys have struggled with this before, but I was severely bullied and called "gay" and some derogatory names when I was younger. This, as you might know, caused a bit of confusion and at one point led me to actually question my sexuality (though by the grace of God, I didn't engage in an act with another when an opportunity presented itself). I shamed myself about that for a long time, and until probably earlier this year, I wasn't completely free of some of these thoughts nor the shame. In fact, I would like to say that I am free now, but I don't know what tomorrow will bring or what trigger might key some of my old thought patterns, because while "incidents" are happening fewer and farther between, they still do happen. All this to say that I have compassion for homosexuals. I hate hearing derogatory terms (though I was a frequent user in the past) and I hate it when people automatically assume that someone who is gay is going to Hell. I don't know what is going to happen in anyone's life, so I can't assume anything about anyone's future. Sure, I can make "educated guesses" based on the behavior patterns that people exhibit now, but if my life proves anything, it's that you have no idea when God will show up to rock your world.

One thing I don't struggle with is separating homosexuality from homosexual, and I don't equate this to the "hate the sin, love the sinner" mentality that is misquoted and taken out of context from St. Augustine. This is literally separating a person's actions, ideas, and preferences from the person themselves. I love lasagna, but I am not lasagna. We are separate. That being said, I do equate some things to a person, such as religion, partially because it is socially acceptable to do so (since we're being honest), but partly because it is one of the strongest things people identify with. For instance, I am a Christian. A person who practices Islam is Muslim. Same goes for nationality. I'm an American, iN008 is Scottish. Because these, to me, are such integral part of our being, I think it's okay (and perhaps you don't need an actual explanation for this, but it's helping me flesh out some things so I'm going for it). My sexuality is not integral. Some might call me out on this, but I tend to look at what labels I apply to myself (specific categories, like I previously mentioned) and "apply" them to other people. Stated differently, I'm a Christian, so if you label yourself a Christian, then I will look at you as a Christian (I hope I'm articulating this right). However, because my sexuality isn't that important to me (if I HAD to have a label, I would be a nomosexual because I have decided to remain abstinent since my last relationship), I try not to look at people by their sexuality. Obviously, I'm not perfect at this, nor am I claiming to be willfully ignorant. I guess I try not to put an emphasis on those types of things.

Now, one final point on homosexuality that I struggle with, and I may have touched on this before (I have been thinking and pondering on this for hours). Just because I don't think of people as homosexual first doesn't mean that homosexuals don't. This is an identity issue, and I certainly don't want to attack someone's identity, even if I believe their identity is founded on something frivolous (such as sexuality). I would extend this to race, choice of sports team, or favorite show (I give My Little Pony fans a hard time, and I don't understand their obsession with the show, but I really don't judge them for it... I like Sailor Moon, so there). Thus, I try to be sensitive about these issues. When I talk to a gay person, I don't treat them as if they are gay. I treat them however the situation calls (again, we're being honest), though I do my best to be respectful. That being said, I don't really hang out with a lot of gay people on a regular basis, but that's because we aren't of like minds nor do many of the ones I know have like interests. But many of them respect me because I first respected them.

I hope the answer suffices. I would like to say more but I may have over-analyzed it. It's not an easy issue for me, especially because I am not as grounded theologically in this as I would like to be. I'm glad you asked the question, though. This is exactly what I was hoping to have happen to me; make me struggle for the right answer and really do some soul-searching. Thanks for that!

Anyone else have a tough question? You can relate it to my answer for this one, or it can be on something completely different.

Dear Pray How do you feel about suicide and racism in our society?

pray75 :  Thanks for taking the time to answer that tough question.  I really appreciate that.  Yes, the subject always needs to be approached with extreme sensitivity, but it still needs to be approached.  I think a lot of Christians attack this kind of subject with hostility, screaming that all gays will go to hell, while they are blinded by their own sexual sins and that is the crux of the matter.  God hates ALL sexual sin.  Fornication (sex outside of marriage), adultery, homosexuality, pornography, you name it.  A lot of Christians have the tendency to approach homosexuality either very aggressively (I was one of those) or with so much sensitivity that they rather not bring up the subject at all.  We as Christians are called to share our faith and God's truth, but it must all be done with love and patience, so as to lead others to Christ  who is the only way to real life, eternally.  We should not be "sin spotters", pointing out the flaws in other people's lives (I'm preaching to myself here! Belee dat!), no, BUT we must make others aware of the judgement of sin.  God is a God of love and grace yes, but He is also righteous and WILL bring judgement on the sinner continuing in his/her sin (that ultimately brings sorrow and destruction) and who continually rejects His grace and the gift of everlasting life that only He can give.  That is the truth.  So by say nothing at all and by dabbling and dancing around on the surface, avoiding the subject, letting our homosexual friends continue in their sin, we might as well be shoving them down the pit, or you can get to the heart of the matter if you honestly care about them (or any of your friends that doesn't know Christ) telling them about judgment that awaits, but also that there is a way of escaping that judgement!

I do not mean to "hijack" the thread and I'm sorry, I'm really pouring out my heart here - We can sugar coat it all we want, trying to hide our own sins, justifying ourselves, being full of pride and hammering on homosexuals for example, but the bottom line is, if you are not honest with yourself, realising your own flaws, getting to that point of humility where you realise that you are not as good as you thought you were - you lied, stole, cussed, cheated, hated, never mind the sexual sins - God cannot work with you.  You cannot know the truth.  He will resist you.  Only when you truly realise how disgraceful you really are and that you are only dust and need saving from yourself and your sinful nature, only then will God show you grace.  If you then truly accept Him into your life and heart as your Lord and Savior, He promised that He will make you a new creation with a new heart and new desires.  It does not mean that we won't get tempted to do sin, especially the one that you are struggling with the most, and yes, you sometimes will stumble, but when you do, you will and must run to God immediately, giving Him the bump that stumbled you.  I'm going to be real honest here - I used to be caught up in that despicable thing called pornography and it almost ruined my marriage, but by God's grace, love and His power, my heart was changed only when I came to that realisation what I'm actually busy doing.  Although I wasn't physically going out to sleep with other women, I was doing that in my mind!!  I cheated my wife, myself and ultimately God.  I just praise the Lord that He lifted me out of that pit and He changed my wife's heart again towards me (although that took some time and it still is a working progress )  

Being a Christian means that you have your identity in Christ, not by what you have done, are doing and are still going to do, or by what people label you as.  You are where you are for an awesome reason.  I always believe that.

That was a good read, I'm a gay person. And not particularly religious. But really interesting questions and answers.

I have a question, but I don't know how tough it will be, but I'll shoot. This question is regarding philosophy.

Do you believe that any country is actually a "free country"?

Tell me, pray75. What is the secret of Monkey Island that everyone is hiding?

Well since you said we could talk about politics... I'm just assuming I can ask this.

What is your opinion on the president of the USA?

Hard Questions???

This is a recreation site.
Why Bother? Particularly with the typical "on-line" culture?
I'll skip the politics. ... If the answers can allow.

The hardest question I can think of is the Media and Education.

I have noticed a trend with people following the media very religiously and accepting almost everything they hear on T.V. more readily than in the past. (Of course I was younger.)

Is this possible real trend (I do not have the time to conduct a study.) related to the alterations in educational standards in the U.S.?

Nay or Yea to the question I posed.

Any ideas on one topic or the other?

Seems a bit odd that so many people today tend to be easily swayed by one story or another in the news. I hoped for future generations to be smarter than I was when I had an equal amount of years of age.

Good Luck.
Peace.
(Note: If any answer seems too odd? Do not submit one. I dig comedy but do not dig people opening themselves to something as large as the News. You have no obligation. This is a recreation site. Have fun.)