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"Used games are killing the industry"

 

02-02-13 11:12 PM
metal572 is Offline
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I'm sorry if there is already a thread like this somewhere, but I wanted to get thoughts on this. The companies are making the claim that used games are sorely hurting the industry and that it is costing them a lot of money. I think this is just ridiculous. Almost every industry has a used market, and they deal with the fact that they have that competition. The video game market however seems to think that bad mouthing that market is a better approach. I personally think their claims of losing money are blown out of proportion. Yes, some money is lost to the used market, but considering the vg industry is a multi billion dollar industry, and also considering the fact that games keep breaking sales records (i.e. every time a new cod launches) I'm willing to bet they aren't being hurt by it. I think used games is the new piracy, if something doesn't make as much money as the company wanted it to, they just blame used games/piracy. Not bad marketing, not bad design, bad story, bad bug testing, or anything else that is the fault of the people who made the game, it's all just used games/piracy. Ubisoft is especially bad for making this claim (after they started the always online drm on pc, their pc sales sunk like a rock, so they blamed piracy...cus it obviously couldn't be that people just didn't want to deal with all the problems the drm on the pc caused...I also think they are using this as a way to justify adding more drm to games and charging for things like online access codes to increase their profit whithout having to do any additional work.. So what do you guys think? Are used games hurting devs? Is it just an excuse to make a money grab by limiting used games (i.e. online access codes or drm) ? Or is it a scapegoat to cover their mistakes?
I'm sorry if there is already a thread like this somewhere, but I wanted to get thoughts on this. The companies are making the claim that used games are sorely hurting the industry and that it is costing them a lot of money. I think this is just ridiculous. Almost every industry has a used market, and they deal with the fact that they have that competition. The video game market however seems to think that bad mouthing that market is a better approach. I personally think their claims of losing money are blown out of proportion. Yes, some money is lost to the used market, but considering the vg industry is a multi billion dollar industry, and also considering the fact that games keep breaking sales records (i.e. every time a new cod launches) I'm willing to bet they aren't being hurt by it. I think used games is the new piracy, if something doesn't make as much money as the company wanted it to, they just blame used games/piracy. Not bad marketing, not bad design, bad story, bad bug testing, or anything else that is the fault of the people who made the game, it's all just used games/piracy. Ubisoft is especially bad for making this claim (after they started the always online drm on pc, their pc sales sunk like a rock, so they blamed piracy...cus it obviously couldn't be that people just didn't want to deal with all the problems the drm on the pc caused...I also think they are using this as a way to justify adding more drm to games and charging for things like online access codes to increase their profit whithout having to do any additional work.. So what do you guys think? Are used games hurting devs? Is it just an excuse to make a money grab by limiting used games (i.e. online access codes or drm) ? Or is it a scapegoat to cover their mistakes?
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02-04-13 05:29 PM
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I buy almost all of my games used, since its the only way I can afford them. With this logic, the record companies should also try to speak against used hand record stores. Well, I guess then the only people I support are the gaming retailers selling the used games which sort of sucks since I would like to also support the people who made the game and thus made my enjoyment possible but to be fair, If the game is worth new something that is half my months food budget then I am sorry. I am not going to buy it new. And releasing a game full of bugs that still requiers me to buy all kinds of DLC for it to be complete is never going to help the case. Nor store my faith into the industry.
I buy almost all of my games used, since its the only way I can afford them. With this logic, the record companies should also try to speak against used hand record stores. Well, I guess then the only people I support are the gaming retailers selling the used games which sort of sucks since I would like to also support the people who made the game and thus made my enjoyment possible but to be fair, If the game is worth new something that is half my months food budget then I am sorry. I am not going to buy it new. And releasing a game full of bugs that still requiers me to buy all kinds of DLC for it to be complete is never going to help the case. Nor store my faith into the industry.
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02-04-13 07:40 PM
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With Resale. The Work of developers actually gets recorded and viewed and Paid for.
Otherwise there will emerge a ton of Hacked Versions or Pirated Copies sold Bootleg style.
Clones, Emulators, Cheaper "Knock-off's" and Lord knows what.
I can not begin to imagine the amount of chaos that would ensue. There will always be a larger amount of money to be had from games that cost $20 over the games that are priced $60. If the used game market folds another entity will take its place. It's just the way it works.
We do have a choice as consumers though.
Don't buy the new stuff that cannot be resold.
Remember Play-station one and N.64???
When no one bought them in my town the Price dropped to $130.00 Bucks Each within the first year the systems were out.
I am a firm believer in the idea that people can make a difference if they act with a little Forethought. You get enough of them doing that and the world can serve you better that you slaving for it can.
That's what I got on that topic.
Good Luck To All.
I'm Done.
Stick a fork in me.
Peace.

(P.S. Reminds Me of "The Alpha Omega Sin" on Youtube. He has a rant for this very topic. Explains my viewpoint very well.)
With Resale. The Work of developers actually gets recorded and viewed and Paid for.
Otherwise there will emerge a ton of Hacked Versions or Pirated Copies sold Bootleg style.
Clones, Emulators, Cheaper "Knock-off's" and Lord knows what.
I can not begin to imagine the amount of chaos that would ensue. There will always be a larger amount of money to be had from games that cost $20 over the games that are priced $60. If the used game market folds another entity will take its place. It's just the way it works.
We do have a choice as consumers though.
Don't buy the new stuff that cannot be resold.
Remember Play-station one and N.64???
When no one bought them in my town the Price dropped to $130.00 Bucks Each within the first year the systems were out.
I am a firm believer in the idea that people can make a difference if they act with a little Forethought. You get enough of them doing that and the world can serve you better that you slaving for it can.
That's what I got on that topic.
Good Luck To All.
I'm Done.
Stick a fork in me.
Peace.

(P.S. Reminds Me of "The Alpha Omega Sin" on Youtube. He has a rant for this very topic. Explains my viewpoint very well.)
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02-04-13 07:52 PM
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Honestly although I disagree with SOME of the things they cry when this subject comes up, but honestly I don't mind the developer getting upset at the BILLIONS that companies like Gamestop make every year by reselling their games.

Every used copy that is bought is taking away from a potential "new" sale for them, sure they can make money of DLC (Sometimes) but that's one of the major reasons they came up with DLC in the first place (That and to supposedly add replay value to a game) the point is that the developer put a lot of time/money into creating that game. They don't want other people that had nothing to do with creating the game making money on their product.

Put to to you like this. You create some awesome painting. One person buys it, then resells it a ton of time and lines his pockets with the proceeds. You basically make nothing except for the occasional spot in a magazine somewhere here and there...Does that make you happy?

My point is that I don't blame them for wanting a cut of the money that companies are making off their product.
Honestly although I disagree with SOME of the things they cry when this subject comes up, but honestly I don't mind the developer getting upset at the BILLIONS that companies like Gamestop make every year by reselling their games.

Every used copy that is bought is taking away from a potential "new" sale for them, sure they can make money of DLC (Sometimes) but that's one of the major reasons they came up with DLC in the first place (That and to supposedly add replay value to a game) the point is that the developer put a lot of time/money into creating that game. They don't want other people that had nothing to do with creating the game making money on their product.

Put to to you like this. You create some awesome painting. One person buys it, then resells it a ton of time and lines his pockets with the proceeds. You basically make nothing except for the occasional spot in a magazine somewhere here and there...Does that make you happy?

My point is that I don't blame them for wanting a cut of the money that companies are making off their product.
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02-04-13 08:49 PM
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Jordanv78 :

"Every used copy that is bought is taking away from a potential "new" sale for them..."

I disagree with this statement. If it wasn't for used games...I would not buy games at all. I can not stand to spend 60$ (which is a lot for me!) on a game that 4 out of 10 times turns out to suck or not be worth the money.  I'd rather not have most games than take a chance on them. There's a very few that are obviously going to be good and that I've seen enough on to know that I'm not going to loose my investment on them, so I will buy those, but other than that, no.

So honestly, the game companies aren't 'loosing' my money at all, because there's not a chance in heck I'll buy it new from them anyway. 

What they do get from me buying used games is a potential future customer, however. I would not have purchased Bioshock new; I don't like first person shooters and it looked a bit lame (and I don't pay attention to all the hype about games-I hated Halo and it got all kinds of awards...) But I bought a used copy, LOVED IT, and was willing to purchase Bioshock 2 brand new...and I already have a pre-order out for Bioshock Infinite when it comes out.

So, at least in my case, the game industry BENEFITs from the used game market. 
Jordanv78 :

"Every used copy that is bought is taking away from a potential "new" sale for them..."

I disagree with this statement. If it wasn't for used games...I would not buy games at all. I can not stand to spend 60$ (which is a lot for me!) on a game that 4 out of 10 times turns out to suck or not be worth the money.  I'd rather not have most games than take a chance on them. There's a very few that are obviously going to be good and that I've seen enough on to know that I'm not going to loose my investment on them, so I will buy those, but other than that, no.

So honestly, the game companies aren't 'loosing' my money at all, because there's not a chance in heck I'll buy it new from them anyway. 

What they do get from me buying used games is a potential future customer, however. I would not have purchased Bioshock new; I don't like first person shooters and it looked a bit lame (and I don't pay attention to all the hype about games-I hated Halo and it got all kinds of awards...) But I bought a used copy, LOVED IT, and was willing to purchase Bioshock 2 brand new...and I already have a pre-order out for Bioshock Infinite when it comes out.

So, at least in my case, the game industry BENEFITs from the used game market. 
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02-04-13 09:25 PM
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Jordanv78 : Thing is, there is nothing wrong with someone reselling something. It happens with every other market. Should I not be allowed to sell a car I bought? Or a movie or music cd? What about books or furniture? People sell these things all the time, yet no one bats an eyelash, but whenever it comes to games somehow it becomes a different story. A lot of people buy used for many reasons, some of which were already mentioned here. The fact is the used market can be used as a way to allow unsure buyers the chance to jump into a series with low risk, as thudricdholee said about bioshock. if they want to increase sales of new copies (not necessarily full priced ones, but discounted ones as well), then let them make it more appealing to do so without taking away features that would have been there to begin with. Give the customer a REWARD for buying new, not a PUNISHMENT for buying used.
Jordanv78 : Thing is, there is nothing wrong with someone reselling something. It happens with every other market. Should I not be allowed to sell a car I bought? Or a movie or music cd? What about books or furniture? People sell these things all the time, yet no one bats an eyelash, but whenever it comes to games somehow it becomes a different story. A lot of people buy used for many reasons, some of which were already mentioned here. The fact is the used market can be used as a way to allow unsure buyers the chance to jump into a series with low risk, as thudricdholee said about bioshock. if they want to increase sales of new copies (not necessarily full priced ones, but discounted ones as well), then let them make it more appealing to do so without taking away features that would have been there to begin with. Give the customer a REWARD for buying new, not a PUNISHMENT for buying used.
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(edited by metal572 on 02-04-13 09:26 PM)    

02-04-13 09:41 PM
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metal572 : I understand your point I'm just saying I can't blame developers for wanting a part of the money coming in on the secondary market. Same thing during the 8 bit days when Nintendo and many of their developers did not want Video stores to rent their games. Basically the same thing.

Also game prices haven't really gone up that much at all in the 25+ years that I have been gaming so prices are not really the issue. No more than any other time in gaming.
metal572 : I understand your point I'm just saying I can't blame developers for wanting a part of the money coming in on the secondary market. Same thing during the 8 bit days when Nintendo and many of their developers did not want Video stores to rent their games. Basically the same thing.

Also game prices haven't really gone up that much at all in the 25+ years that I have been gaming so prices are not really the issue. No more than any other time in gaming.
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I am going to put it this way: you buy a game for $60, which is way over priced to begin with. As long as you don't make copies and sell them, because that is illegal... you should be fine. I hate paying for new games at $60. That is why I ALWAYS buy used as Game Stop, or wait a few months when the game goes down to $40 or sometime $30 or $20.
I am going to put it this way: you buy a game for $60, which is way over priced to begin with. As long as you don't make copies and sell them, because that is illegal... you should be fine. I hate paying for new games at $60. That is why I ALWAYS buy used as Game Stop, or wait a few months when the game goes down to $40 or sometime $30 or $20.
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02-04-13 10:04 PM
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Jordanv78 : Price may not have gone up as much, but that doesn't change the fact a lot of people either don't want to or cant spend the money on a full priced new game. Also, I understand they want to get more people to buy new instead, that's why i said they should reward customers who do. Give them the first dlc free, give them a code for the soundtrack, give them points that when combined with points from other new games by the same company can get you a coupon for a different game. Any of those would be good options that would convince some more people to buy new. But thing is, even buying new doesn't mean buying at full price. A lot of people wait until a game is $30 or $20 or even less before buying it. This is not wrong, it is being careful and smart with your money. Rewarding people with customer loyalty and incentives to purchase new are the only fair ways to handle the competition from the used market. Punishing people for buying used does nothing but piss people off and causes the company to be associated with cash grab schemes (look at all the websites that reported on online access codes when they first started). And you may say they would lose money by giving these discount offers or free dlc/soundtrack to the customers, but think of it this way, what do you think makes more money for them, the $10 dlc, or the video game they are selling for $40+? The increase in profit from the game sales would more than cover any losses from the freebies.
Jordanv78 : Price may not have gone up as much, but that doesn't change the fact a lot of people either don't want to or cant spend the money on a full priced new game. Also, I understand they want to get more people to buy new instead, that's why i said they should reward customers who do. Give them the first dlc free, give them a code for the soundtrack, give them points that when combined with points from other new games by the same company can get you a coupon for a different game. Any of those would be good options that would convince some more people to buy new. But thing is, even buying new doesn't mean buying at full price. A lot of people wait until a game is $30 or $20 or even less before buying it. This is not wrong, it is being careful and smart with your money. Rewarding people with customer loyalty and incentives to purchase new are the only fair ways to handle the competition from the used market. Punishing people for buying used does nothing but piss people off and causes the company to be associated with cash grab schemes (look at all the websites that reported on online access codes when they first started). And you may say they would lose money by giving these discount offers or free dlc/soundtrack to the customers, but think of it this way, what do you think makes more money for them, the $10 dlc, or the video game they are selling for $40+? The increase in profit from the game sales would more than cover any losses from the freebies.
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(edited by metal572 on 02-05-13 09:22 AM)    

02-05-13 08:38 AM
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metal572 :
thudricdholee :

Look I agree that people should be able to re-sell their games but there is no doubt that the game developers are losing money because of used sales. I also agree that it sucks when they take away items from people who bought used, or have to pay extra to the company for said services. The bonus for buying the game new is to have those multiplayer features and to be able to use their online content.

Sure a ton of people purchase used from stores like Gamestop. Why? Because they can usually save 5-10$ because lets face it, usually only kids buy the games that cost like 10$. You might as well wait until the GOTY edition comes out if it's a popular game. They use it because it's there. If it wasn't there do you think that people would stop playing games? LOL probably not. Maybe a small portion would, but I bet you $ that people would find a way to purchase the new COD and Halo every other dang year.

Also let's not forget the fact that companies like Gamestop rob the consumer on the other end by giving them less than half value for games that just came out...that they turn around and sell for 55$...oh and that game you just bought for 55$?? They gave you even less than half in trade. So they aren't really helping you out that much...

Also you have to keep in mind the huge server fee's companies have that have large online multiplayer content and the money it costs to manage said servers. That is another reason for the Publisher/Developer to want to charge money for those kinds of services.

metal572 :
thudricdholee :

Look I agree that people should be able to re-sell their games but there is no doubt that the game developers are losing money because of used sales. I also agree that it sucks when they take away items from people who bought used, or have to pay extra to the company for said services. The bonus for buying the game new is to have those multiplayer features and to be able to use their online content.

Sure a ton of people purchase used from stores like Gamestop. Why? Because they can usually save 5-10$ because lets face it, usually only kids buy the games that cost like 10$. You might as well wait until the GOTY edition comes out if it's a popular game. They use it because it's there. If it wasn't there do you think that people would stop playing games? LOL probably not. Maybe a small portion would, but I bet you $ that people would find a way to purchase the new COD and Halo every other dang year.

Also let's not forget the fact that companies like Gamestop rob the consumer on the other end by giving them less than half value for games that just came out...that they turn around and sell for 55$...oh and that game you just bought for 55$?? They gave you even less than half in trade. So they aren't really helping you out that much...

Also you have to keep in mind the huge server fee's companies have that have large online multiplayer content and the money it costs to manage said servers. That is another reason for the Publisher/Developer to want to charge money for those kinds of services.

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02-05-13 10:01 AM
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Jordanv78 :
Dude.
The things used to cost us 25 cents.
Asking $60.00 Bucks plus the hundreds for a system compared to the pocket change is insane.
Telling a person that they cannot have property after that price is... PAID for?? Is retarded.

Supply and Demand.
That is what Business is all about.
So long as there is demand? Someone will supply it. It is that simple. My heart would blead for the fools developing. BUT
If they don't like the business they do have? Then they can quit.
Nobody is holding them at gunpoint to make video games.
Merely demanding more money than what is to be had is a dumb enough topic. As is.
Expecting an individual to do what he is told with an item he owns is stupid. (Extra Rules?)
I already have enough rules to follow when I drive MY car. When I repair MY car. When I take care of the taxes for MY car. When I take care of the insurance for MY car. When I have to sell MY car.

Why would I want to extend this crazy process for an item that is ment to entertain me (video games).?
I need my car to get to work or pay bills or get groceries. I do not need video games in the same way. Why would I go through the extra process of Paying further fees for something that I do not demand to be worth more than 25 cents in the first place??
You have to look at what is really being asked "Jordanv78". They don't want a couple of bucks. They want steady Payments. An extra bill for you and me.

I did my homework to graduate.
I pay my Taxes to stay free.
You put those two together and decide to not take on an extra bill?
That's called common sense.
Good Luck To You "Jordanv78"
Good Luck To Us All.
I'm done. Stick a fork in me.
Peace.
Jordanv78 :
Dude.
The things used to cost us 25 cents.
Asking $60.00 Bucks plus the hundreds for a system compared to the pocket change is insane.
Telling a person that they cannot have property after that price is... PAID for?? Is retarded.

Supply and Demand.
That is what Business is all about.
So long as there is demand? Someone will supply it. It is that simple. My heart would blead for the fools developing. BUT
If they don't like the business they do have? Then they can quit.
Nobody is holding them at gunpoint to make video games.
Merely demanding more money than what is to be had is a dumb enough topic. As is.
Expecting an individual to do what he is told with an item he owns is stupid. (Extra Rules?)
I already have enough rules to follow when I drive MY car. When I repair MY car. When I take care of the taxes for MY car. When I take care of the insurance for MY car. When I have to sell MY car.

Why would I want to extend this crazy process for an item that is ment to entertain me (video games).?
I need my car to get to work or pay bills or get groceries. I do not need video games in the same way. Why would I go through the extra process of Paying further fees for something that I do not demand to be worth more than 25 cents in the first place??
You have to look at what is really being asked "Jordanv78". They don't want a couple of bucks. They want steady Payments. An extra bill for you and me.

I did my homework to graduate.
I pay my Taxes to stay free.
You put those two together and decide to not take on an extra bill?
That's called common sense.
Good Luck To You "Jordanv78"
Good Luck To Us All.
I'm done. Stick a fork in me.
Peace.
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They act like the game wasn't bought at full price in the first place which is true, someone bought it at full price then someone bought it from the game retailer for half that price used.  They still made money their just looking for a reason to complain.
They act like the game wasn't bought at full price in the first place which is true, someone bought it at full price then someone bought it from the game retailer for half that price used.  They still made money their just looking for a reason to complain.
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02-05-13 10:24 AM
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orionfoxgibson : I understand what you are saying, and to that point I agree. As I have said before. What I am saying is from the other side of the argument so to speak. To say that they aren't losing money is ridiculous because they are. Plus the fact that places like Gamestop are gouging their own customers. That is all I'm saying.

I was also just getting at the fact that to purchase a video game console and games has basically stayed the same since I have been playing games (almost 30 years)

The 25cents argument is sort of invalid because A. Either you purchased that game during the Atari crash, or B, you got to play a game for 5 mins (at most) in the arcade. Systems have always been hundreds of dollars. I'm pretty sure I paid close to 300$ of money I had gotten for birthdays and mowing the neighbors lawn for over a year for my NES...In 1986 US currency...I also clearly remember paying like 65$ for Super Mario 3 when it was released.

I understand also that the developers aren't forced into making games but it is natural for any company not to like others that are taking a bite out of their media.

Look I personally use companies like Gamestop, but I can tell you that I don't like Gamestops business practices.
orionfoxgibson : I understand what you are saying, and to that point I agree. As I have said before. What I am saying is from the other side of the argument so to speak. To say that they aren't losing money is ridiculous because they are. Plus the fact that places like Gamestop are gouging their own customers. That is all I'm saying.

I was also just getting at the fact that to purchase a video game console and games has basically stayed the same since I have been playing games (almost 30 years)

The 25cents argument is sort of invalid because A. Either you purchased that game during the Atari crash, or B, you got to play a game for 5 mins (at most) in the arcade. Systems have always been hundreds of dollars. I'm pretty sure I paid close to 300$ of money I had gotten for birthdays and mowing the neighbors lawn for over a year for my NES...In 1986 US currency...I also clearly remember paying like 65$ for Super Mario 3 when it was released.

I understand also that the developers aren't forced into making games but it is natural for any company not to like others that are taking a bite out of their media.

Look I personally use companies like Gamestop, but I can tell you that I don't like Gamestops business practices.
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(edited by Jordanv78 on 02-05-13 10:45 AM)    

02-05-13 10:34 AM
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Jordanv78 :
Just because someone says something is not valid does not make it invalid.
I'm glad you took time to type.
I'm glad you put effort into making your statements clear.
Thank you.
I can clearly see you are a fool.
I will not waste any more time with you.
Good Luck To All.
I'm done. Stick a fork in me.
Peace.
Jordanv78 :
Just because someone says something is not valid does not make it invalid.
I'm glad you took time to type.
I'm glad you put effort into making your statements clear.
Thank you.
I can clearly see you are a fool.
I will not waste any more time with you.
Good Luck To All.
I'm done. Stick a fork in me.
Peace.
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02-05-13 10:41 AM
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orionfoxgibson : I'm not sure why you would sit there and call me a fool. As a person that has been in web/software development for years, I understand why companies want in on the money being made on their product. I'm not saying that it's not valid to like the used industry because I myself use it.

I also have probably been gaming for as long as you have been.

I'm just saying that paying 25 cents for 2-5 mins of an arcade game is not the same thing as purchasing a game. It's basically renting it for that short period of time and to that point, how much have we all spent in the arcades during their popularity? Too much to guess I am assuming.

I'm sorry that you can't see how I'm just trying to make the point from the other side of the argument and that somehow is making you angry.

The developers are in no way obligated to like the used industry and I can understand why they don't. Just like gamers are not obligated to like the fact that some of the developers are against the used industry.

It's a double edged sword.
orionfoxgibson : I'm not sure why you would sit there and call me a fool. As a person that has been in web/software development for years, I understand why companies want in on the money being made on their product. I'm not saying that it's not valid to like the used industry because I myself use it.

I also have probably been gaming for as long as you have been.

I'm just saying that paying 25 cents for 2-5 mins of an arcade game is not the same thing as purchasing a game. It's basically renting it for that short period of time and to that point, how much have we all spent in the arcades during their popularity? Too much to guess I am assuming.

I'm sorry that you can't see how I'm just trying to make the point from the other side of the argument and that somehow is making you angry.

The developers are in no way obligated to like the used industry and I can understand why they don't. Just like gamers are not obligated to like the fact that some of the developers are against the used industry.

It's a double edged sword.
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(edited by Jordanv78 on 02-05-13 02:30 PM)    

02-05-13 02:00 PM
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orionfoxgibson : talking like that to him was uncalled for. Quit being an ass. He happens to be right that you can't compare renting a game for a few minutes at 25 cents versus buying a permanent copy of the game.

Jordanv78 : regarding the comment about how it is mostly kids who buy games for $10, I can easily point to many many games I have bought for $10 or less. A lot of people actually buy heavily discounted games, because it is a smarter way to get the most value for their money.
orionfoxgibson : talking like that to him was uncalled for. Quit being an ass. He happens to be right that you can't compare renting a game for a few minutes at 25 cents versus buying a permanent copy of the game.

Jordanv78 : regarding the comment about how it is mostly kids who buy games for $10, I can easily point to many many games I have bought for $10 or less. A lot of people actually buy heavily discounted games, because it is a smarter way to get the most value for their money.
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02-05-13 02:35 PM
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metal572 :
Look I don't mean or intend to cause problems.
I just have a blunt way of viewing things.
That said.
Based on the stuff I have been hearing about (rumors nothing concrete), The hard copy of a game may be a thing of the past.
They may have everything managed On-line.
Right now we have hard Disks or whatever to actually hold and own.
If everything goes to On-line Stuff I am fairly certain Developers can charge whatever they please. And No Reselling.
So in a manner it matters not what opinion I have on the subject of cost.
The fact is developers will get what they want one way or another.
The thing I do have control over is what I pay for and what I do not.
I like having a hard copy disk or what ever to hold in my hands.
I like seeing what I paid for.
Like I said Before. If the hard copies are done away with something will take its place.
It's not as simple as raising the price tag on gas.
People need the car to go places.
People do not need to play games.
I was just using the price-tag of Coin-op games in a form of reference to The Dramatic changes the role of us the consumers have undergone. Granted Games have evolved as well, but... only so far.

Then again.
I really don't mind being called names.
(Not like I have to deal with you folks on my side of the screen.)
Good Luck To All.
I'm done. Stick a fork in me.
Peace.
metal572 :
Look I don't mean or intend to cause problems.
I just have a blunt way of viewing things.
That said.
Based on the stuff I have been hearing about (rumors nothing concrete), The hard copy of a game may be a thing of the past.
They may have everything managed On-line.
Right now we have hard Disks or whatever to actually hold and own.
If everything goes to On-line Stuff I am fairly certain Developers can charge whatever they please. And No Reselling.
So in a manner it matters not what opinion I have on the subject of cost.
The fact is developers will get what they want one way or another.
The thing I do have control over is what I pay for and what I do not.
I like having a hard copy disk or what ever to hold in my hands.
I like seeing what I paid for.
Like I said Before. If the hard copies are done away with something will take its place.
It's not as simple as raising the price tag on gas.
People need the car to go places.
People do not need to play games.
I was just using the price-tag of Coin-op games in a form of reference to The Dramatic changes the role of us the consumers have undergone. Granted Games have evolved as well, but... only so far.

Then again.
I really don't mind being called names.
(Not like I have to deal with you folks on my side of the screen.)
Good Luck To All.
I'm done. Stick a fork in me.
Peace.
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02-05-13 02:59 PM
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The used game market can both hurt and help developers. It hurts really large developers, but kinda helps smaller ones and the larger ones are kinda big enough so that the hurt isn't so bad in most cases.

Let me further break it down.

So let's say you're Bungee and you're on top of the world. You can pop out Halo 4589435034 and everyone will rush to a midnight launch to buy it. You have a series with a strong following so you'll undoubtedly turn a profit from those fans buying it brand new within the first week of launch. Now, sure there are some people who aren't on the Halo bandwagon and aren't too sure... so they might pick up a used copy at Gamestop so they don't shell out a full $60 on something they may not like. Well if they DO like Halo 4, for example... they're more likely to buy Halo 5 at full price now that they got into the series. If they never had the opportunity to get it cheap, they'd never jump in and you NEVER get that customer. This is something developers need to consider.

The impact is far greater for obscure developers. Let's say you're Gust and released Ar Tonelico Qoga. What the heck is Ar Tonelico Qoga? Sounds like gibberish. The average gamer--even if a RPG fan--isn't going to go rush to pick that up. But what if they see an old Ar Tonelico game at Gamestop for like $20? Maybe they'll give it a shot of they're bored. Maybe they like it. Maybe they go out and buy Qoga now brand new because they expect to like what they'll get. Without a used game market, however, these obscure games would forever stay obscure... especially Gust, as their US Publisher is NISA who is only known for... obscure games... (their biggest series is Disgaea and that's far from mainstream).

Now it's kinda sad that Hollywood Video died and Blockbusters are reducing stores because the RENTAL market may have been more useful to developers. If you rent a game, you get to try it for cheap, but you don't KEEP it for cheap... meaning you still have to buy the game new if you wanted it. Players still get to have a low-risk evaluation (lower risk than just outright buying it for cheaper), but developers still get money on the actual sales rather than Gamestop sucking up all the money on selling someone else's used copy. I think developers still made money on providing the rental copies to the rental stores too. They basically sold the games to them like they were selling to a retail store.

Also, remember that the developers make their money upfront regardless of whether or not a game actually sells. They sell it to a retail store and that store takes the hit if it bombs. Of course, if that does occur, the store will likely not take as many (or maybe none at all) copies next time since they don't want to get burned again. But still, Square-Enix is going to make their money sending a million copies of Final Fantasy to stores across the nation and those stores will have to deal with whatever happens. I don't think anyone is going to tell Square-Enix to not print as many copies. Even if they flop a game, you expect them to come back strong next time, so you don't risk having an empty shelf and losing customers who wanted that game.
The used game market can both hurt and help developers. It hurts really large developers, but kinda helps smaller ones and the larger ones are kinda big enough so that the hurt isn't so bad in most cases.

Let me further break it down.

So let's say you're Bungee and you're on top of the world. You can pop out Halo 4589435034 and everyone will rush to a midnight launch to buy it. You have a series with a strong following so you'll undoubtedly turn a profit from those fans buying it brand new within the first week of launch. Now, sure there are some people who aren't on the Halo bandwagon and aren't too sure... so they might pick up a used copy at Gamestop so they don't shell out a full $60 on something they may not like. Well if they DO like Halo 4, for example... they're more likely to buy Halo 5 at full price now that they got into the series. If they never had the opportunity to get it cheap, they'd never jump in and you NEVER get that customer. This is something developers need to consider.

The impact is far greater for obscure developers. Let's say you're Gust and released Ar Tonelico Qoga. What the heck is Ar Tonelico Qoga? Sounds like gibberish. The average gamer--even if a RPG fan--isn't going to go rush to pick that up. But what if they see an old Ar Tonelico game at Gamestop for like $20? Maybe they'll give it a shot of they're bored. Maybe they like it. Maybe they go out and buy Qoga now brand new because they expect to like what they'll get. Without a used game market, however, these obscure games would forever stay obscure... especially Gust, as their US Publisher is NISA who is only known for... obscure games... (their biggest series is Disgaea and that's far from mainstream).

Now it's kinda sad that Hollywood Video died and Blockbusters are reducing stores because the RENTAL market may have been more useful to developers. If you rent a game, you get to try it for cheap, but you don't KEEP it for cheap... meaning you still have to buy the game new if you wanted it. Players still get to have a low-risk evaluation (lower risk than just outright buying it for cheaper), but developers still get money on the actual sales rather than Gamestop sucking up all the money on selling someone else's used copy. I think developers still made money on providing the rental copies to the rental stores too. They basically sold the games to them like they were selling to a retail store.

Also, remember that the developers make their money upfront regardless of whether or not a game actually sells. They sell it to a retail store and that store takes the hit if it bombs. Of course, if that does occur, the store will likely not take as many (or maybe none at all) copies next time since they don't want to get burned again. But still, Square-Enix is going to make their money sending a million copies of Final Fantasy to stores across the nation and those stores will have to deal with whatever happens. I don't think anyone is going to tell Square-Enix to not print as many copies. Even if they flop a game, you expect them to come back strong next time, so you don't risk having an empty shelf and losing customers who wanted that game.
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02-05-13 03:11 PM
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orionfoxgibson : My issue is that somehow you are using the example of a .25c two min "rental" of a game and somehow comparing it to the home console video game industry where the prices have remained pretty stagnant in the past 25+ years. As I had mentioned before. Gaming systems and the games have always been an investment. It's entertainment and no entertainment is a "necessity" obviously.

The only thing that has changed is that while some of the costs for Publishers/Developers has gone down (Using CD/BluRay disks as opposed to Rom cartridges, almost eliminating printed booklets...etc) they are having to spend more than ever on the actual R+D of the games, the staff, the advertisement/trailers, the maintenance of the servers and a lot more too long to list.

orionfoxgibson : My issue is that somehow you are using the example of a .25c two min "rental" of a game and somehow comparing it to the home console video game industry where the prices have remained pretty stagnant in the past 25+ years. As I had mentioned before. Gaming systems and the games have always been an investment. It's entertainment and no entertainment is a "necessity" obviously.

The only thing that has changed is that while some of the costs for Publishers/Developers has gone down (Using CD/BluRay disks as opposed to Rom cartridges, almost eliminating printed booklets...etc) they are having to spend more than ever on the actual R+D of the games, the staff, the advertisement/trailers, the maintenance of the servers and a lot more too long to list.

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02-05-13 05:11 PM
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Crazy Li :
I like the info you brought to the table.
It is true.
My biggest Issue with the lack of resale is I like allot of games but I think the Price tag should Vary Greatly.
100+ hour games that are a joy should be worth $60.00.
Other games that have less game time to complete or are a chore?
I don't know.
Take my $5.00 copy of "Marvel Ultimate Aliance." For the Five Bucks I spent? I think it is a good game. Had I paid $60.00 I would have been very angry.
Plus how do I get rid of it if I am the only person that is allowed to play?
What if I just want my cash back?
There are allot of dangers to attempting to bring console games purchasing practices back to the old, 8-bit N.E.S Mystery Box, 50/50% chance, of Score or Loose Scenario.
Then again.
If they want to they can do just that. (With the no hard copy disk and all on-line Stuff.)
So, like I said it is kind of moot discussing Price. If they want it. They will get it.
A few years back no one had heard of S.N.K. (In the U.S.)
Now I don't think I can Imagine the game world without them. (Try to imagine a world where there are only five new games every year. Just new digits Slapped to the title.
Street Fighter 14, Halo 55, Final Fantasy 62, Grand Theft Auto 99( Oopse I did it again officer.), And of course E.A. Sports (All Pro Leagues. Soccer, Football, Baseball, and Basket Ball. All in one.).
How Sad would this look?
Would anyone Spend the cash after they graduate?
Another reason I mentioned Coin-op (I forgot about it. Other stuff came up.) was the lack of choice on selection that came with the Quarter munchers. You walk into an arcade and if you didn't feel like playing what they had you were out of luck.
Thank you for reminding me what I thought might come up.
If only the Major Games Score who would buy?
It never occurred to me that NO ONE would be able to beat a game on just a couple of quarters or less.
Maybe I should start some Street Fighter Gambling or something.
I can really score with this notion.
Any hoot thanks for the input.
Good Luck To All.
I'm Done. Stick a fork in me.
Peace.
Crazy Li :
I like the info you brought to the table.
It is true.
My biggest Issue with the lack of resale is I like allot of games but I think the Price tag should Vary Greatly.
100+ hour games that are a joy should be worth $60.00.
Other games that have less game time to complete or are a chore?
I don't know.
Take my $5.00 copy of "Marvel Ultimate Aliance." For the Five Bucks I spent? I think it is a good game. Had I paid $60.00 I would have been very angry.
Plus how do I get rid of it if I am the only person that is allowed to play?
What if I just want my cash back?
There are allot of dangers to attempting to bring console games purchasing practices back to the old, 8-bit N.E.S Mystery Box, 50/50% chance, of Score or Loose Scenario.
Then again.
If they want to they can do just that. (With the no hard copy disk and all on-line Stuff.)
So, like I said it is kind of moot discussing Price. If they want it. They will get it.
A few years back no one had heard of S.N.K. (In the U.S.)
Now I don't think I can Imagine the game world without them. (Try to imagine a world where there are only five new games every year. Just new digits Slapped to the title.
Street Fighter 14, Halo 55, Final Fantasy 62, Grand Theft Auto 99( Oopse I did it again officer.), And of course E.A. Sports (All Pro Leagues. Soccer, Football, Baseball, and Basket Ball. All in one.).
How Sad would this look?
Would anyone Spend the cash after they graduate?
Another reason I mentioned Coin-op (I forgot about it. Other stuff came up.) was the lack of choice on selection that came with the Quarter munchers. You walk into an arcade and if you didn't feel like playing what they had you were out of luck.
Thank you for reminding me what I thought might come up.
If only the Major Games Score who would buy?
It never occurred to me that NO ONE would be able to beat a game on just a couple of quarters or less.
Maybe I should start some Street Fighter Gambling or something.
I can really score with this notion.
Any hoot thanks for the input.
Good Luck To All.
I'm Done. Stick a fork in me.
Peace.
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