Sort of a provoking title isn't it?

Well, this thread (in particular, this post) will have as much to do with those two topics as Christianity and my opinions on what it is to be alive. I'm not planning on convincing anyone because I learned long ago that, even in the real, everyday world (especially in the real, everyday world), away from Internet forums, that is quite impossible because pride gets in the way; and a person just doesn't want to feel that someone else has more knowledge in something they have an equal right to. I'm not saying other people feel that way, no, I am including myself as well. I have just as much pride as the next person. Do I think that preachers know more about Christianity than I? Well I should hope they would, but as far as listening to them I find myself too wrapped up in myself to really accept what they say as truth simply because they know more. I have as much of a right to say, “That's a load of bull” as he does to say, “You're a load of bull” in response. In conclusion, I mean to touch base on a lot of things and would appreciate your responses. I do not plan to present any facts only ideas and would ask you to do the same because our thoughts are so often disregarded, but I, in all earnestness, want to know them.

Anyways, let's get on with it shall we?

I was raised a Christian. My parents took me to church every Sunday from the day I was old enough to speak. I guess instead of a kid wailing and screaming in the back of the church they wanted to bring a child who would yell, “I want to go to McDonald's! Mom... Mom! When is this done? I have to go pee!” I feel bad for parents in that position. Your kid is going insane and you're there for the fellowship and the message. They should have chosen a church with a Sunday school, that's all I can say.

Anyways, Being raised a Christian, I believed in Jesus nearly everyday of my life for 18 years and then, well, I don't know. This little bug that had been eating away at the base of my brain finally gave up trying to get my attention that way and screamed in my ear. Reason and religion had finally merged and they didn't mix well. Like oil and water, they push away at each other as though just being near would hurt or destroy them. Now I am not saying I am not still a Christian, in fact I still believe in Jesus being the son of God. I'm sure you'll hear this from thousands of different Christians who think they're so different, as I think I am different, but my belief in the Christian God is not like to others. I've heard people say that so many times it's become a cliché, but just because it's a cliché doesn't mean it's not true.

Oh crap, all of a sudden this thread just became bland and commonplace. In a way, yes, but isn't my writing exceptional? Please bear with me.

I will just say this about my Christian beliefs because when I first came to them I couldn't deal with them and filled three pages full of my thoughts as to what it was I was feeling. I believe that because I was presented with Jesus, and have been brought up to do so, that it is right for me to believe in him, just as someone is raised a Muslim it is right for them to believe in the Islamic god. It is everyone's right also not to believe in anything, and as a person who used to thumb wrestle many an atheist as a bible slinging Christian, I think any god who would deny a creature of there own creation because it didn't want to believe in him (or it), is a god I don't want to believe in, because the reward in believing shouldn't be heaven, it should be friendship, heaven should be a given. We have a choice to do anything we want in this world, except the choice to be brought into it, and for us to decide in 80 years or so (probably less), what god is the right god to believe in so we can go to heaven and stay away from hell just seems wrong, doesn't it?

Let's get to the thread Topic. Now this will be shorter than the start of my post (sorry... I lie).

Homosexuals. I've seen some discussion on this topic and just wanted to put my thoughts on the table. Such lovely people, male and female alike. I am not gay myself, but I am attracted to it in a odd sort of way. Not to be a part of it, but more to respect it I guess would be the way to put it. I have been educating myself in Greek and Roman literature and the way homosexuals are presented in some of the texts by Plato seem so glorious and pure. The relationship between two men in that time just seemed elegant, and I've always chased elegance. Some gays today just go completely flamboyant and that is okay too, but back in Rome's time, having a male lover was manly. That may seem weird to some of you, but know we have about 2000 years between our time and Rome's time, and when Rome began it wasn't a Christian state. I could go on, but I promised no facts, only ideas. I think the idea that being gay is a choice is relevant as is its opposite. There you have it. Simple eh? Well, homosexuality isn't as big of a deal to me as it is to other people, and towards those “other people” I hold no grudges for I love so many different sorts of people.

Murder. Let's not just call it murder, I simply used the word murder because it is a powerful word in means for wrong doing and I thought you might read my post if you thought I wanted to murder homosexuals. In lieu of murder, let's call this paragraph everything evil. People are trying everyday to make this world a better place and for good reason: because it is a terrible place. Now this statement can be found both true and false, but I feel I must find it true. With murder and lust, greed and war, lust for power, power gained through fear, the exploitation of so many people, the exploitation we allow people to take on us, religious battles, suicide bombs on abortion clinics, terrorists crashing planes into skyscrapers, people thinking their governments are responsible for terrorist attacks, serial killers, and Hanna Montana, it's hard to find some real good in this world. But even though I believe this world is a terrible place, I looked past that once and decided to break it down. Yes, it is a complete abomination, but for all of its short-comings, it is because of it's most awful deeds and traits that makes this world so brilliantly beautiful and at times wonderfully breathtaking. One could look at this world and say, “These people have no idea what they're doing, I will end it” or one could say, “These people have no idea what they're doing, how marvelous!”

You see, I think a perfect world is boring. One without pain or fear... curiosity. We would have no art! No novels or paintings, no poetry. The video game you so love to murder other people in would not exist. Your favorite movie would be nonexistent (mine being Kill Bill). Music would be lame and unchanging and just think what would happen to sex. You see, without bad there can be no good. That is why preservers of the peace so terribly require warmongers in order to be employed. As a person with this sort of view, I can say I always think of the good as a gift, not a right, but I will always fight for it, and that is what I believe it is to be truly alive.

After all of that though, I am only 21 and my ideas are sure to change. I do hope to use these ideas stated as somewhat of a base for ideas to come, but we'll see.

That is the end of my post, thank you so much for reading this far.

If you feel the need to respond your thoughts will at least be read by me.

~~All edits were done before anyone had responded and were in regards to grammar.~~

Quiet amusing. I do say, i'm beginning to like you more and more with each post.

But you can banter on day and night for all eternity, and though Good and Evil will always be around one will always want to exist more than the other. But i sure as hell don't feel like debating their existence and why its important to have both Good and Evil...

And, 1444 words... on your 2nd post Nice.

Well, I didn't start this thread to start a debate. It's just here so you can say your ideas on the the subject. As I stated, our thoughts are so often disregarded, and by that I mean you state your ideas in one of these threads and people tend to leave it unheeded.

I wanted a place where anyone's thoughts on the subject were relevant. I'm not here to tell anyone they are wrong because I believe a person has as much say on the topic of religion as any bloke. So come on people! Flood this thread with all sorts of views on Christianity and religion in general. Give me your honest feedback on what I've said and lay some of your ideas on me. In return I'll give you my feedback.

We need to have some fun with the idea of religion because the fun is so often sucked out of it. Just having a belief can lead to an adventure.

~~Edit: I wasn't saying good would ever triumph over evil or the other way around. While each has its own little victories, I'm sure they will both fight for domination until the end of time. I was simply saying I will fight for what I perceive to be good. Even though I know this to be futile, I find it necessary in my life to back what is good and right and beautiful. It's like this quote by Einstein:

"...A large part of history is therefore replete with the struggle for those human rights, an eternal struggle in which a final victory can never be won. But to tire in that struggle would mean the ruin of society."

If you want the full quote just Google it. I only put the part I find sends a message.~~

Nice article I like it. Definitely puts a big point across.

Here is what i think. U murder people u get what u do. when it comes to gay people leave me alone and i dont care but i dont think u should get married either.

i never pictured 2 gay men as a manly thing LOL

and thank you for including the AWFUL hannah montana among the other evils

good post

i havent been in the right mood yet to go on a 1500 word rant but hopefully when i do it will be as interesting as yours

For all of the words you put into your post I really have no idea where you're going with it. Frankly, with the amount of time you spent talking about your religious beliefs as they do NOT relate to the topic (or, in this case, two entirely unrelated topics) and how open-minded you claim to be... well, in my experience, people who go to that much trouble to outline their open-mindedness are not as open-minded as they claim to be.

Well, I'm too tired to completely reread the post and I need to go to bed, so I'm going to respond to what I can and I'll see what I can do later:

Originally posted by Rgturner

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You see, I think a perfect world is boring. One without pain or fear... curiosity. We would have no art! No novels or paintings, no poetry. The video game you so love to murder other people in would not exist. Your favorite movie would be nonexistent (mine being Kill Bill). Music would be lame and unchanging and just think what would happen to sex. You see, without bad there can be no good. That is why preservers of the peace so terribly require warmongers in order to be employed. As a person with this sort of view, I can say I always think of the good as a gift, not a right, but I will always fight for it, and that is what I believe it is to be truly alive.

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...really, I find this insulting. You basically assume that people are unable to relate to interests outside of violence and imperfection, which I do not believe is the case. I think that everyone is capable of appreciating beauty and curiosity without the curses that make up the modern world. It's just our modern, liberal upbringing that has caused us to appreciate violence in the media and apply words such as "girly" or "old-fashioned" to things that are good.

I'll try and break down the rest of my response (I wish there was a way to do this without white space bloating the post)...

Originally posted by Rgturner

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The video game you so love to murder other people in would not exist.

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Yes, it would not exist. Instead, we would have games such as Tetris, which has no violence but is good in its own right. Even modern games occasionally are like this. We wouldn't have anything evil to entertain ourselves with, but instead we would find entertainment in more healthy things.

Originally posted by Rgturner

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Your favorite movie would be nonexistent (mine being Kill Bill).

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You seem to be assuming my favorite movie is violent. Anyway, again, we would find entertainment in more wholesome things, such as comedy or even education.

Originally posted by Rgturner

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Music would be lame and unchanging

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You'd be surprised. The best music I've ever heard have none of the evils of the world involved, and in fact much of the music I listen to makes efforts to solve them. I don't know how much music you listen to, but really not all of it is that bad.

Originally posted by Rgturner

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and just think what would happen to sex.

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People would treat it more like a gift and less like a thing to be abused. We would be a more sexually moral society, we would have fewer abortions, and we would not objectify people. We do not need to be sinful to enjoy sex.

Originally posted by Rgturner

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You see, without bad there can be no good.

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I disagree. Good is not the absence of evil; evil is the absence of good. I believe that everyone is capable of being good, but choose not to. There are a number of reasons for this. First of all, habits are passed down to each generation from the past one, so if the past generation is sinful what will happen to the good in the current generation? This even has a snowball effect that we've seen in recent years.
This snowball has caused people to apply terms like "old-fashioned" or "being a baby" to people who make attempts to be good, moral people. This has encouraged people to do things that are marketed more to being "cool," such as "rebel" or "express freedom." The fact is that we can make the world a better place by being better ourselves, and encouraging others against evil and toward healthier things.

I look forward to speaking with you more.

Crawl: you may be right... but being "good" doesn't really sell records, or movies, or video games and that is all that matters to some people.

Originally posted by gee0gree

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Crawl: you may be right... but being "good" doesn't really sell records, or movies, or video games and that is all that matters to some people.

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That's true, but if there were no evil in the world people would not do things out of greed, which ultimately is the cause of all sin.

Originally posted by Rgturner

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Anyways, Being raised a Christian, I believed in Jesus nearly everyday of my life for 18 years and then, well, I don't know. This little bug that had been eating away at the base of my brain finally gave up trying to get my attention that way and screamed in my ear. Reason and religion had finally merged and they didn't mix well. Like oil and water, they push away at each other as though just being near would hurt or destroy them. Now I am not saying I am not still a Christian, in fact I still believe in Jesus being the son of God. I'm sure you'll hear this from thousands of different Christians who think they're so different, as I think I am different, but my belief in the Christian God is not like to others. I've heard people say that so many times it's become a cliché, but just because it's a cliché doesn't mean it's not true.~~

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I understand your views on religion. The one thing I'm sure about is the spirit exist. Yet everything/somethings in the bible could be forged. The main goal of religion is to promote the good behaviors of man. I guess to protect people from people as well. The thing that gets me is imagine what the world would be like without religion. Scary as Hell. I'm pretty sure the world would be trapped in a never ending cycle of evil (chain reactions). The one thing that bothers me is this. I know there is a creator but I worried that we all aren't truly worshipping him. Example: I have researched that Jesus may have not been around 2000 years ago rather maybe 5000 years or more ago. The point is this as well. What is God's son true name?

We think what we are told is the solid truth. in fact the ten Commandments are found in Egypt first. The time line of the world and the Bible brings me the most concern. My concern is what if we are worshipping false idols even today? Due to the taint, the misuse, of ancient cultures. I try my best to be as good as possible due to my concern of the true nature of existence. I just hope I don't become a false believer due to my prayers to the one we call "Jesus", whose name is something else entirely. Anyone understand what I mean? If someone told you to pray like to Santa Claus and you grew up believing he was real are you excused or are you at fault. I heard that if one believes that the Jesus in the bible was the son of God then one would have to note that Hercules was the son of a God as well and real.

So from now on I just pray to God, The Creator, since I don't know his son's name. It is proven by the way that there is no evidence that Jesus existed 2000 years ago. But in fact if you trace the facts that the first account of a figure like Jesus came about was around 5000 years ago In Egypt. This means what I have been worried about since I was younger is possible. One can be lead into false worshipping. Anyway I know this may not be accepted by some but just keep in mind what I said. I believe in God, Angels, Demon, God's Son (A.K.A I don't know his real name, birthday, even origin), The soul/spirit. Also this is the reason why I don't mock others religions. I just take their knowledge into account and try as much as possible to not "break the rules".








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I would have closed this sooner... but holy bump!